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What I learned about SL this week.


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2 hours ago, Conall DeCuir said:

Many Vanilla people going kinky have not learned how to consent or how to ask for it. 

I read the article they're talking about, but can't find it now to provide a link. (You can try this, though.) But this wasn't about bumbling vanilla amateurs, much as I know SL Gurus Of The True BDSM like to disparage them. It was about straight up abusive men choking and slapping their partners and not giving a monkeys if they liked it or not, or just assuming that they would like it because wimmin innit. 

It's important to recognise that this isn't the mistake of the inexperienced. It's quite deliberate and they know exactly what they're doing. 

 

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Those that collar someone or allow themselves to be collared within a day also demonstrate how much they don't know about BDSM. 

I would have hoped the context of my entire comment would have given the impression that the line you quoted was in jest as an attempt at humor. Those who have seen my posts over the months and years

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14 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I read the article they're talking about, but can't find it now to provide a link. (You can try this, though.) But this wasn't about bumbling vanilla amateurs, much as I know SL Gurus Of The True BDSM like to disparage them. It was about straight up abusive men choking and slapping their partners and not giving a monkeys if they liked it or not, or just assuming that they would like it because wimmin innit. 

It's important to recognise that this isn't the mistake of the inexperienced. It's quite deliberate and they know exactly what they're doing. 

 

I read the article and i wonder how people today choose their partner. Don't they vet anymore? Is it the hook up culture? Just jumping into bed without having gotten known to each other ... being precautious? Is it 50 shades and what mainstream has made out of bdsm? Is it that people have just stopped to communicate their likes, dislikes and limits. Do they even know anymore that that is important? 

Well, inexperienced .. that can be both. 

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34 minutes ago, Conall DeCuir said:

I read the article and i wonder how people today choose their partner. Don't they vet anymore? Is it the hook up culture? Just jumping into bed without having gotten known to each other ... being precautious? Is it 50 shades and what mainstream has made out of bdsm? Is it that people have just stopped to communicate their likes, dislikes and limits. Do they even know anymore that that is important? 

Well, inexperienced .. that can be both. 

You're still thinking this is attempted BDSM gone wrong because idiots. It's not. 

I'd mention all my experiences of harassment and abuse in public places but heaven knows I'd hate to Go Too Far. 

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1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I read the article they're talking about, but can't find it now to provide a link.

This is it:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50546184

It reminds me very much of an extremely high profile case in Canada, when a popular CBC radio personality, Jian Ghomeshi, was exposed as having punched, slapped, and choked a number of women on dates, or after having brought them to his house. This was not BDSM, although Ghomeshi claimed publicly that he was being persecuted for his predilection for so-called "rough sex." He just randomly hit or choked women. Fun guy. He's no longer with the CBC.

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10 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This is it:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50546184

It reminds me very much of an extremely high profile case in Canada, when a popular CBC radio personality, Jian Ghomeshi, was exposed as having punched, slapped, and choked a number of women on dates, or after having brought them to his house. This was not BDSM, although Ghomeshi claimed publicly that he was being persecuted for his predilection for so-called "rough sex." He just randomly hit or choked women. Fun guy. He's no longer with the CBC.

Yep, we've had a couple of cases lately of "she loved BDSM oops she's dead how did that happen". And since she's dead, we'll just have to take his word for it, conveniently. You really have to wonder at a world where a man can just bash women around and strangle them as he pleases, then claim he's the victim.

And it's NOT a case of bumbling amateurs who just don't know how long you can press hard on a woman's neck before you kill her, the silly billies. Nobody who knows anything about BDSM should think it is.

Edited by Amina Sopwith
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Just now, Amina Sopwith said:

Yep, we've had a couple of cases lately of "she loved BDSM oops she's dead how did that happen". And since she's dead, we'll just have to take his word for it, conveniently. You really have to wonder at a world where a man can just bash women around and strangle then, then claim he's the victim.

And it's NOT a case of bumbling amateurs who just don't know how long you can press hard on a woman's neck before you kill her, the silly billies. Nobody who knows anything about BDSM should think it is.

To recycle an analogy I just employed in a conversation on this subject with a friend, claiming that this is "failed BDSM" is like calling a rape "failed love making" because he just forgot to obtain her consent first.

I would hope that the BDSM community is up in arms about this sort of thing. Is it? It's NOT BDSM, and it's in danger of undoing all of the work that community has done over the years to ensure that kink is performed safely and consensually. We are in serious need of a public education programme of some sort about this.

I also think that the BBC's suggestion that the availability and influence of extreme porn is part of the problem is at least partially correct. I know we've been talking about creating a "feminist pornography" for decades now, but clearly attempts to reform porn to make it more inclusive and less misogynist are losing ground.

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31 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

To recycle an analogy I just employed in a conversation on this subject with a friend, claiming that this is "failed BDSM" is like calling a rape "failed love making" because he just forgot to obtain her consent first.

I would hope that the BDSM community is up in arms about this sort of thing. Is it? It's NOT BDSM, and it's in danger of undoing all of the work that community has done over the years to ensure that kink is performed safely and consensually. We are in serious need of a public education programme of some sort about this.

I also think that the BBC's suggestion that the availability and influence of extreme porn is part of the problem is at least partially correct. I know we've been talking about creating a "feminist pornography" for decades now, but clearly attempts to reform porn to make it more inclusive and less misogynist are losing ground.

I don't know what the BDSM community is doing, I haven't been active in it for quite some time. It certainly would have been enraged where I was at the time, but as you say, with more and more extreme porn available and with things going a bit more mainstream, the culture might be changing. Or it might not. Given the tiny relative numbers who were in my local scenes, I suspect most people who explore this do it independently with their partners rather than at clubs and munches. I certainly did initially. Consent was the most massive thing when I was at clubs. I've been groped and hassled at ordinary dance clubs, but never at a fetish one. Well, I mean, people did touch me at fetish clubs but if I said no thank you, there was never any trouble.

 

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12 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

You're still thinking this is attempted BDSM gone wrong because idiots. It's not. 

Not at all. It has nothing to do with BDSM. BDSM is about consent. What is described in the article is mainstream kink. People are bored and seek for more excitement .. harder .. faster .. more. 

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12 minutes ago, Conall DeCuir said:

Not at all. It has nothing to do with BDSM. BDSM is about consent. What is described in the article is mainstream kink. People are bored and seek for more excitement .. harder .. faster .. more. 

When you hear about stories of men murdering women in a fit of kink, the response should not be "silly amateurs". 

And if men murdering women does ever become mainstream kink, I'll be joining a nunnery. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

When you hear about stories of men murdering women in a fit of kink, the response should not be "silly amateurs". 

And if men murdering women does ever become mainstream kink, I'll be joining a nunnery. 

 

You just dont want to understand me :), a feminist trait i assume. Bye and have fun! i am not wasting my time.

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38 minutes ago, Conall DeCuir said:

You just dont want to understand me :), a feminist trait i assume. Bye and have fun! i am not wasting my time.

What on earth has "understanding you" got to do with it? Anyway, when I did ask you to explain your description of women in discourse as a "snake pit", you never responded, so why would I imagine you've got anything now?

However, in case my point here was obscured by the sarcasm, here it is plainly. When men choke women to death, you talk about mainstream kink, being bored, looking for a higher thrill, amateurs who don't know what they're doing. I am telling you that they know exactly what they are doing when their partner goes limp, turns blue, eyes roll back,  the rest of it. But they are hoping that they will get away with convincing juries that they're actually just mainstream kinksters, bored, looking for a higher thrill, amateurs who don't know what they're doing. And if enough people go around with a "bloody amateurs" response to these murders, there's a chance that they could indeed convince these juries that that's what they are. And they aren't. 

Let's make it simpler still. You're saying they're stupid thrill seekers. They're not. They're murderers hoping people will think they're stupid thrill seekers.

So, Conall, I know you think feminism is evil and women are snakes and yes, I even know that your Female Friends agree with you and not me. But this is important, so will you waste some of that precious time and think about it? 

Edited by Amina Sopwith
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10 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

To recycle an analogy I just employed in a conversation on this subject with a friend, claiming that this is "failed BDSM" is like calling a rape "failed love making" because he just forgot to obtain her consent first.

I would hope that the BDSM community is up in arms about this sort of thing. Is it? It's NOT BDSM, and it's in danger of undoing all of the work that community has done over the years to ensure that kink is performed safely and consensually. We are in serious need of a public education programme of some sort about this.

I also think that the BBC's suggestion that the availability and influence of extreme porn is part of the problem is at least partially correct. I know we've been talking about creating a "feminist pornography" for decades now, but clearly attempts to reform porn to make it more inclusive and less misogynist are losing ground.

Informed consent is the cornerstone of the BDSM community, in both lives. I've lost count of how many times I've heard all sorts of people say that... but it's true. In many ways, the community designed around hitting people with spatulas and putting the knot-tying lessons of scouts/girlguiding into practice happens to also be the shining light of what consensual sex looks like. But there isn't really a way for the bulk of the community to "get up in arms" over this, without outing their (usually private) interests to the wider world... so I'm not sure what the solution here is.

I'd also argue that 50 shades of abuse has been just as (if not far more) damaging as the porn trends of the last decade. It's one thing if a "lady of the night" is filmed engaging in rough acts, but that's porn. It's still exceptionally taboo, and not something that people talk about in casual conversation, ever. But here comes along this overhyped piece of garbage, showcasing an abuser manipulating, blackmailing and occasionally outright raping a woman. Into the trash it goes... except it didn't. It broke sales records, and was almost exclusively consumed by women. That damned book was the equivalent of the female population holding up a massive banner saying "all this stuff that's not okay, is actually okay". And that's not okay.

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28 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

 

I'd also argue that 50 shades of abuse has been just as (if not far more) damaging as the porn trends of the last decade. It's one thing if a "lady of the night" is filmed engaging in rough acts, but that's porn. It's still exceptionally taboo, and not something that people talk about in casual conversation, ever. But here comes along this overhyped piece of garbage, showcasing an abuser manipulating, blackmailing and occasionally outright raping a woman. Into the trash it goes... except it didn't. It broke sales records, and was almost exclusively consumed by women. That damned book was the equivalent of the female population holding up a massive banner saying "all this stuff that's not okay, is actually okay". And that's not okay.

I agree 100% with all the criticism of it, but it still wasn't half as bad as Gor (my God, the stuff in there, and always followed by 500 pages telling you he really means it) or a tidal wave of violent content produced by men. Without in any way defending 50 Shades of S***, I still think that the reason it got so much deserved criticism when so much else goes under the radar was because it was by a woman and for women. It's astonishing how much awful behaviour only gets called out once women start doing it.

 

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What I learned...

Some peoples opinions that will make sure I will never  think of doing business with them. And will advise others to not do so.

A reason to go premium over and above my personal group contribution. Re : ML zoning. Don't

That thinly disquised ads (hey I make 1 LI ferns - with extra fern! plus place closing -  sign up!) are allowed.

'Your World Your Imagination' still holds. Ex - creativity - yep. Did it yesterday will do tomorrow. I took a day off.

That there was a 'golden community age' experienced by Adam S in the 6 months between us signing up :)

All things pass. As soon as the Lab realise this then so shall this. There are other forums. Shadows but still.

Oh tech wise - I learned how to split a projector light over 8 'shards' on a single z face :)

Also that @animats talks a lot more sense than my earlier take. Nod to oldeSkool

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I agree 100% with all the criticism of it, but it still wasn't half as bad as Gor (my God, the stuff in there, and always followed by 500 pages telling you he really means it) or a tidal wave of violent content produced by men. Without in any way defending 50 Shades of S***, I still think that the reason it got so much deserved criticism when so much else goes under the radar was because it was by a woman and for women. It's astonishing how much awful behaviour only gets called out once women start doing it.

While I don't disagree with the bit I highlighted, I don't think that's the problem here. The problem is the raw popularity of the garbage. A failed academic pumping out several dozen pulp novels with a few million sales total across half a century is one thing (with a gap in the middle as no publisher would publish his tripe); but the speed and sheer scale of success 50 shades of garbage achieved fully justifies the volume of criticism it receives.

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28 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

While I don't disagree with the bit I highlighted, I don't think that's the problem here. The problem is the raw popularity of the garbage. A failed academic pumping out several dozen pulp novels with a few million sales total across half a century is one thing (with a gap in the middle as no publisher would publish his tripe); but the speed and sheer scale of success 50 shades of garbage achieved fully justifies the volume of criticism it receives.

I take your point, but he's got an entire effing subculture of planks following this crap, with a not insignificant number of them treating it like a religion. There are RL conventions (three teeth for every 12 people, but still) and I knew of some people who claimed to be doing RL branding, men actually inflicting third degree burns on women and presumably not taking them to hospital. Selene knows of a couple of Gor-related murders. 50 Shades, as appalling as it was, definitely looks like a fad next to this. Content wise, it's got nothing on Gor either. It's godawful and abusive, but you could argue it's just a story about one relationship. Gor promotes an entire "philosophy" based on all women without exception being effectively subhuman, lesbians just need to be raped and beaten straight and all manner of other things too upsetting and offensive for me to outline here, but you get my drift. And yet even those who don't do it are alarmingly keen to let it go.

Why does Gor get its free pass when everyone can see 50 Shades for the dangerous dross it is? I know the latter is more mainstream, but it's nowhere near as longstanding. I think the answer is depressing, and obvious.

Edited by Amina Sopwith
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14 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Why does Gor get its free pass when everyone can see 50 Shades for the dangerous dross it is? I know the latter is more mainstream, but it's nowhere near as longstanding. I think the answer is depressing, and obvious.

"Free pass" implies a conscious decision not to criticise it. This may be a generational thing, but I'd never heard of Gor until I found SL. It's an incredibly niche thing and a relic of the 70s/80s. You stop a random person on the street and ask them about 50 shades, you'll get a response; but Gor? Confused stares 95% of the time.

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4 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

Imagine being so abyssal and absurd that even Rule 34 doesn’t apply...

Remember rule 35.

If porn of it doesn’t exist, it will be made. I am contacting my artist friends as we speak and I am trying to find my drawing tablet at the same time. 
 

Though there is already some stuff out there.

Note for internet degenerates, make sure to include -nissan -skyline and -gtr whenever you try and include “r34” in an obscure google search because otherwise you just get Nissan skyline R34’s

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11 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

"Free pass" implies a conscious decision not to criticise it. This may be a generational thing, but I'd never heard of Gor until I found SL. It's an incredibly niche thing and a relic of the 70s/80s. You stop a random person on the street and ask them about 50 shades, you'll get a response; but Gor? Confused stares 95% of the time.

Ah, sorry, that's not what I meant, although I do think a lot of people have some reason to choose not to criticise Gor, and I think I know what it is. I meant, within the SL/online community, from my perspective at least, plenty of justified criticism for 50 Shades but a shed load of apologists for Gor. And while 50 Shades is better known, if it has any kind of on or offline subculture along the lines of Gor, I haven't come across it and I think I would have by now.

Edited by Amina Sopwith
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