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Bridget Hammill

DISAPPOINTMENT IN CHARGING TO USE THE EVENTS CALENDAR

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Putting this in here because I do expect that other thread to be locked.

I stopped using Events to find things to do more than 10 years ago because of all the crap I had to sift through so I'm not completely opposed to the 10Ls. It's the 50Ls for basics that chaps my @$$. I get they want more premium accounts and why. I get they would prefer premiums to pay monthly as well. What I don't get is punishing those of us who can't afford premium. Especially in an age where phones and internet are no longer luxuries but necessities.

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6 hours ago, zannadu said:

OK so we now get charged for every event posting. I wonder what the next trick will be, will we start getting charged for every croup notice. Is Liindon falling on hard times now and trying to make a few more lindon from us?

I think it is sad that members who run clubs and try to generate traffic for there dj's Dancers, or Escorts now have to do so at even more out of pocket coast.

 

I personally think that a charge for group notices over a specific number per day or week would be a good idea.  I belong to a couple of groups that I've turned notices off for because they send one out every hour or two - one group sends a notice roughly every 30 min.  That is a hell of a load put on the system.  I also think that groups should have to pay an additional amount for chat ability if their member count exceeds some specified number - hundreds, a thousand.  Chat messages for super huge groups is also a large load on the system.

And, for the record, the Events listing was such a mess that I am glad they are now charging a fee.

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14 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

And, for the record, the Events listing was such a mess that I am glad they are now charging a fee.

Use the Search filters (Rating, Category, and Keywords) and it won't be a mess. Use the Firestorm viewer SL Events and NOT the horrible web search.  The fee will not reduce the Adult sex spam at all.  The new fees have already made it impossible to find performers and artists, when the club has reduced their listing to one composite event listing/day - for 12 hours of events.  This only hurts the performers and the venues that host them.  I am so tired of hearing how charging a fee will improve anything.  That is simply false hope, and that is for the record too.

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Here's an idea though, what if adult events are legitimate events, and that rating should be usable too? :P

Instead it was all just ads. It's not even events. It's just the SL equivalent of "hot single ladies in your local sim! come visit us~" and there's at least fewer now that it costs money.

The fee is a necessity. The events list might actually be usable to find events now, which means you might actually get traffic from it. Consider the fee an investment in an event listing that people might actually be able to find.

Edited by Cinos Field
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A non-premium can post events at 50L.  A Premium can post events at 10L.  Premium membership costs $99.00, which is roughly 25,740L (figuring approx. 260L per $1.00).   Roughly 644 notices at 50L will be cost the same as paying for Premium and paying for those same notices at 10L.  So, if an account wants to post more than 644 notices per year (not quite 2 per day), it will be cheaper for them to become Premium. 

*Modify the 644 count a bit to allow for L$ exchange fees.

(assuming I've done my math right - which is always questionable on rough work days)

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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13 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

A non-premium can post events at 50L.  A Premium can post events at 10L.  Premium membership costs $99.00, which is roughly 25,740L (figuring approx. 260L per $1.00).   Roughly 644 notices at 50L will be cost the same as paying for Premium and paying for those same notices at 10L.  So, if an account wants to post more than 644 notices per year (not quite 2 per day), it will be cheaper for them to become Premium. 

*Modify the 644 count a bit to allow for L$ exchange fees.

(assuming I've done my math right - which is always questionable on rough work days)

Either way, many still can not afford it. It's not a matter of which is cheaper. It's a matter of not having that kind of cash to spare. 

There is a reason I spend the vast majority of my time in SL working rather than "playing". It's the only way I can afford to be in SL any more. If it hadn't been for Par offering me a job, I wouldn't still be here. I would have been gone shortly after I started logging in again last year because I can't afford to buy Ls any more and the 50L stipend old basic accounts get does not go far at all, especially when you can't log in every week, which, for those not aware or who have forgotten, you must log in at least once a week and be logged in for a minimum amount of time or you don't get the basic stipend.

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1 hour ago, Cinos Field said:

Here's an idea though, what if adult events are legitimate events, and that rating should be usable too? :P

Instead it was all just ads. It's not even events. It's just the SL equivalent of "hot single ladies in your local sim! come visit us~" and there's at least fewer now that it costs money.

The fee is a necessity. The events list might actually be usable to find events now, which means you might actually get traffic from it. Consider the fee an investment in an event listing that people might actually be able to find.

This.

Adult events have every right to be in the calendar. If I'm looking for a DJ, or some other event, and I have to scroll through 200 other events that are adult or that I have no interest in, I either search specifically for what I am looking for, or I scroll through. I will never look for something and find only what I am looking for. There are too many events going on and this is a good thing for the health of the grid.

Events are not spam unless they are either not events, events that have been posted already, or events listed in the wrong category. Charging money will clean the real spam up, except in the wrong category instance. And it will help make the calendar more usable and valuable in time.

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3 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I personally think that a charge for group notices over a specific number per day or week would be a good idea.  I belong to a couple of groups that I've turned notices off for because they send one out every hour or two - one group sends a notice roughly every 30 min.  That is a hell of a load put on the system.  I also think that groups should have to pay an additional amount for chat ability if their member count exceeds some specified number - hundreds, a thousand.  Chat messages for super huge groups is also a large load on the system.

And, for the record, the Events listing was such a mess that I am glad they are now charging a fee.

Notices: agree.

Chat: Not as much. I'm rather fond of groups like Bellisseria Citizens that are basically like a Slack channel all day long - there is always a friendly conversation going on in there.

Events: I would like there to be NO ABILITY to post a recurring event. Each an every single time something you post there shows up there, $50L - that's what I want. I want it to be something people use for actual events. Not DJ spam. I actually wish it would block words like 'DJ', 'board', 'TP', 'hour', 'club', 'TUNE', 'WOOT', and variations of them...

 

 

 

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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18 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Events: I would like there to be NO ABILITY to post a recurring event. Each an every single time something you post there shows up there, $50L - that's what I want. I want it to be something people use for actual events. Not DJ spam. I actually wish it would block words like 'DJ', 'board', 'TP', 'hour', 'club', 'TUNE', 'WOOT', and variations of them...

You are talking about Group Notices and Group chat postings here, not SL Events - where only one post per event is allowed (but not enforced).  We restrict our hostesses to post one club Group Notice/ hour, or 2 for a 2 hr event, the initial and half-time.  Many patrons are not logged in for the first notice, and it's normal for offline notices to be capped, so they don't see any notice unless a 1/2 time notice is sent.  Of course if the sim crashes during an event, you can post when the sim comes back up to please come back everyone that crashed out.

 

 

Edited by Jaylinbridges

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On 12/5/2019 at 1:49 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

 

(assuming I've done my math right - which is always questionable on rough work days)

I count on  your calucations! You are the best linden calculator on the forum, in my opinion! If I need to balance something or figure out which way is best to save lindens via premium membership, land tier or what have you, I always look for your name on the relevant threads first. I'm premium but if I ever needed to post an event, now I know that it's worth having the premium just to pay for event listings at only 10L :) 

Thank you!!! lol 

Mainland is for All! 

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On 12/4/2019 at 11:58 AM, Adam Spark said:

In fairness @Asadora Summers, clubs have been paying since the beginning of the grid. Matter of fact, this cost will only increase club costs not even 5% in most cases, perhaps often not even 1%. Its nothing compared to the tier we pay.

Yes, that is true, clubs and such have been paying already especially regarding to land tier. It's their choice to do so. It's just another add-on to what they already pay in order to get people into their clubs. All the equipment, objects, building supplies, tier, hiring people to host/dance/DJ - all is part of the costs of running a business. And simply put, paying to have that business advertise should be a factor according to their advertising budget. For non premium, it's just 50L to post an event, which is nothing compared to the spammy gesturbating hosts and every 30min advertising shouts out. Costs to hire people than it does to post an event listing, is what I'm meaning here. 

But as you said it's 'nothing compared to the tier...' paid, that was the overlay of the point I was making. 

 

 

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50L isn't enough to dissuade frivolous spammers. Nowhere near enough. LL should increase it to 500L. 

Additionally, LL could maybe charge users to access Search results, or make it available for Premium/Premium Plus members only.

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The fee should increase based on the number of events posted within a certain timeframe.

Perhaps you could post 7 events a week for L$10 each.

Then the next 7 would be L$100 each.

And the next 7 after that L$1000 each.

Something along those lines. Exact numbers presented here are probably a terrible idea, but it's the principle I think would work.

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1 hour ago, sternerregnix said:

Additionally, LL could maybe charge users to access Search results, or make it available for Premium/Premium Plus members only.

lol .. you'llmake new friends with such remarks  :)

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3 hours ago, Asadora Summers said:

Yes, that is true, clubs and such have been paying already especially regarding to land tier. It's their choice to do so. It's just another add-on to what they already pay in order to get people into their clubs. All the equipment, objects, building supplies, tier, hiring people to host/dance/DJ - all is part of the costs of running a business. And simply put, paying to have that business advertise should be a factor according to their advertising budget. For non premium, it's just 50L to post an event, which is nothing compared to the spammy gesturbating hosts and every 30min advertising shouts out. Costs to hire people than it does to post an event listing, is what I'm meaning here. 

But as you said it's 'nothing compared to the tier...' paid, that was the overlay of the point I was making. 

And I fully agree, however I do see it the other way too. If you are paying all you can afford, one more fee, big or small, will be a problem.

On the flip side of that, however, is looking again at your budget and making the necessary choices to handle such a fee. Its not hard to save a few hundred Ls by moving to cheaper land or making cost effective tweaks to your club.

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SL Writes on its BLOG:
We’ve heard many complaints from our Residents about duplicated event listings and spam. To combat this problem, we’re introducing a nominal fee which will help discourage spamming and encourage higher-quality events from committed event hosts. Basic members will be charged L$50 to create an event listing while Premium members will pay L$10. On the heels of this change, we will introduce the ability for Premium members to schedule recurring events.

That will kill most clubs and activities. As a Club owner, we give live singers the ability to perform for audiences that would otherwise not be able. We advertise each performance on SL Events and no, we don't spam it. We set up 2 notices for each performer- at the time and halfway through the show for those who cannot make it at the start. I don't consider this spam or duplication. It is honest advertising. We already pay for listing the club and pay for the prims it takes to present a good face to the public. If its halftime, I don't want to look through the entire initial listings. Some of our activities begin on the half hour so its not just duplication.

We have almost 40 entertainers each 2 week period. Charging for what used to be free but limited to 5 notices per 24 hours was hard to keep up but doable. But this fee that the Lindens now require will bankrupt us. Running a Club is a financially losing proposition. WE have to advertise! We pay all those "nominal" fees and the performer fees (or salary) and tips provided do not cover more than 15- 20% of our outlay. Now we have to add even more just to let people know someone is performing? Ridiculous!!!

If the complaints are to be believed, then it the spam that comes in local and group chat and notices. NOT SL Events. SL Events is a public service for legitimate activities. It is a directory of activities to make SL enjoyable and make people want to participate. Adding fee on top of fee is going to kill off the small and financially shaky establishments like mine. It is not fair when I am trying to provide a service and outlet for singers.

Where is this revolving listing I keep hearing about?

Drop the fee!!

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I can't believe this is the only way to stop spamming. I put up a listing for a free discussion event each week. No money made or exchanged. This is just revenue raising.

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1 hour ago, Hitomi Tamatzui said:

SL Writes on its BLOG:
We’ve heard many complaints from our Residents about duplicated event listings and spam. To combat this problem, we’re introducing a nominal fee which will help discourage spamming and encourage higher-quality events from committed event hosts. Basic members will be charged L$50 to create an event listing while Premium members will pay L$10. On the heels of this change, we will introduce the ability for Premium members to schedule recurring events.

That will kill most clubs and activities. As a Club owner, we give live singers the ability to perform for audiences that would otherwise not be able. We advertise each performance on SL Events and no, we don't spam it. We set up 2 notices for each performer- at the time and halfway through the show for those who cannot make it at the start. I don't consider this spam or duplication. It is honest advertising. We already pay for listing the club and pay for the prims it takes to present a good face to the public. If its halftime, I don't want to look through the entire initial listings. Some of our activities begin on the half hour so its not just duplication.

We have almost 40 entertainers each 2 week period. Charging for what used to be free but limited to 5 notices per 24 hours was hard to keep up but doable. But this fee that the Lindens now require will bankrupt us. Running a Club is a financially losing proposition. WE have to advertise! We pay all those "nominal" fees and the performer fees (or salary) and tips provided do not cover more than 15- 20% of our outlay. Now we have to add even more just to let people know someone is performing? Ridiculous!!!

If the complaints are to be believed, then it the spam that comes in local and group chat and notices. NOT SL Events. SL Events is a public service for legitimate activities. It is a directory of activities to make SL enjoyable and make people want to participate. Adding fee on top of fee is going to kill off the small and financially shaky establishments like mine. It is not fair when I am trying to provide a service and outlet for singers.

Where is this revolving listing I keep hearing about?

Drop the fee!!

If by halftime notice you mean in groups in-world, thats irrelevant. That has nothing to do with SL events calendar.

If you get 1 tip of $100L from somebody who found your event because the calendar was cleaned up, thats 10 ads paid for if you are premium, or 2 if you are basic.

Seriously. Its a small tax everyone has to pay. Time will tell if the results will wind up offsetting the cost, but it wouldn't take much. A few hundred Ls a week isn't hard to recoup. Linden Lab is a business. It is on us to figure out how to figure out our finances based on their pricing. SL getting too expensive? Tighten the strings a little. Multiple times I've no longer been able to afford the full sim I had been on. Each time, instead of ordering LL to drop their fees, I moved to a smaller parcel until a full sim was feasible again, because it was my responsibility to live within my means.

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2 hours ago, Hitomi Tamatzui said:
Where is this revolving listing I keep hearing about?

Drop the fee!!

I thought when they rolled out the new event posting system that they were going to start charging. Didn't expect them to start charging shortly after their blog post with no notice like "We're going to start on this date blah blah."

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They  are cracking down the red light adult places  that spam their are guidelines. But the classy laid back  places should be free to post if I may say.

No a  fence to some adult places everyone free will but we need class to.   The really old lars back in the day they may had gogo dancers keep clothes on couples and singles could go and they had live djs we all have good time it was good clean fun nothing crossed the line.

We love are jazz and tango and blues with rock and house music but at times we want to go to place might have erotica art with class semi to leave to the imagination time and place for everything.  With out being lured to some cam sim we want the class back.

 

Yes we all want more laid back classy to casual sometimes erotica with class with out crossing the line. But know ones wants to be lured to cam sim we want class we can use your mind and carry it and leave to the imagination.  Everyone got their likes with  freewill but we need classy casual adult places also.   Conversation with romance and dancing in good vibes atmosphere.  Not all of us are here for bam thank you mam we like to get in the mind allow it to linger make a connection see where it goes.

So if its a classy to casual places read the fine print put under destinations I know Sl is working on things they trying to fix things but we have to speak up.

 

 

This might be point also their to many fashion events in sl their use to be like 5 or 6 every month and music and art venues to keep a float and host and djs not getting enough tips.  The tips Dj , Host , Artist  make save to post a event some owners of the venue will give them a share it depends. Not everyone uses real life sources they may not have  they use the talent they have deep inside  in world.

 

I am just a resistant low key but I see and feel everything I am empathic but I know everyone needs to be heard.

Edited by Vanoralynna

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2 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

If by halftime notice you mean in groups in-world, thats irrelevant. That has nothing to do with SL events calendar.

I took that to mean that instead of just doing a 1 or 2 hour events calendar listing to cover the full event,  they split it and do 2 events listings for one performer set.   I can't get my head around why they do this.There is no need for more than one event listing per performer.  Just one per set or even one per day covering all the performances for the day and the listing will stay visible for the times you have advertised your full performer list.  This is the spam they need to cut out.  

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44 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

 they split it and do 2 events listings for one performer set.

and as someone earlier more or less said .. the same event posted by the Clubowner ánd Performer/DJ ánd host( perhaps even also by a manager) .. that with half time posting is already 6 posts for one event that's probably not even get 1 visitor more by all 6 posts.

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8 hours ago, Cindy Evanier said:

I took that to mean that instead of just doing a 1 or 2 hour events calendar listing to cover the full event,  they split it and do 2 events listings for one performer set.   I can't get my head around why they do this.There is no need for more than one event listing per performer.  Just one per set or even one per day covering all the performances for the day and the listing will stay visible for the times you have advertised your full performer list.  This is the spam they need to cut out.  

If that is the case, then they need to realize that the event stays in the listing for the duration. Searching the calendar at halftime will show the original post.

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1 minute ago, Adam Spark said:

If that is the case, then they need to realize that the event stays in the listing for the duration. Searching the calendar at halftime will show the original post.

that would be a good thing i think

and if the clubs/event organisers use their groupsnotices a bit wiser, a lot less people will keep the chat and notices enabled. Most groups are so horribly abused it's nearly impossble to keep the messages comming.

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