DISAPPOINTMENT IN CHARGING TO USE THE EVENTS CALENDAR

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

 

[Alyona Su]

57 minutes ago, Adam Spark said:

Unless you are searching for a specific singer or DJ. Many events are at least semi-regular so it isn't hard to know something about them after a while without browsing the general list. I'm out of group space and will often type names into the events calendar, or even venue names.

You make my point for me.

[Aethelwine]

This thread had me looking for these listings. In nearly 9 years I don't recall even registering you could search for events. I regularly search people, groups or places. now I look on the event listings I can see why, Rental companies, balloon rides, gambling???.. some DJs too... but it is such a mess and I don't recognise any of it. Much better to join an event group and go through their notices.

[Alyona Su]

5 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

This thread had me looking for these listings. In nearly 9 years I don't recall even registering you could search for events. I regularly search people, groups or places. now I look on the event listings I can see why, Rental companies, balloon rides, gambling???.. some DJs too... but it is such a mess and I don't recognise any of it. Much better to join an event group and go through their notices.

You can search the in-world version. On Web-Based "profiles" widget and also on non-web-based widgets, like in Firestorm. That actual calendar UI (that they showed as an experimental) is what I got a couples time in the web browser - so I wonder if they are doing some A/B testing?

[Aethelwine]

3 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

You can search the in-world version. On Web-Based "profiles" widget and also on non-web-based widgets, like in Firestorm. That actual calendar UI (that they showed as an experimental) is what I got a couples time in the web browser - so I wonder if they are doing some A/B testing?

You have lost me. There is a destination guide on the website and I can search places... even "upload sphericals" (no idea what that is but it sounds rude). Where can I search events on a webpage?

[Alyona Su]

@Aethelwine

LL, Catznip, Kokua viewers:

Firestorm Viewer:

But no search on the Web-Based version: https://secondlife.com/events/ And if you think that list looks a little spammy, try logging-in and see what you get! LOL

To just browse without searching, one hits the "Search" button (tapping Enter key on FS) leaving the field blank.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Alyona Su

[Aethelwine]

They keep the web based version even better hidden than the firestorm search one I missed all these years that is in plain view

[Paul Hexem]

This was a needed change.

I suspect though, it's not going to stop the worst of the adult club spam, as they probably make their money back the first time some desperate dude comes in...

[Jaylinbridges]

3 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

This was a needed change.

I suspect though, it's not going to stop the worst of the adult club spam, as they probably make their money back the first time some desperate dude comes in...

Turn off Adult and you won't see adult club spam.  LL is really to blame for not building a compact inworld SL Events app in their viewer.  They could always use the Firestorm Search app, but they won't, because of NIH syndrome.  The web version has no search box and no way to turn off Adult,  just page through 49 pages of listings for one day, 15 to a page.  Nobody can use that - and it's SL's bad design, not the SL Event posters fault.  You can find another  web version via the browser that has the search and adult filters but still needs too much paging.  I think SL Events was designed by three LL committees that never spoke to each other.   It's a mess because it's hard to find, there are several versions, and has nothing that is easy to use in their SL viewer.  So their solution is to charge for listings.  Hardly a "needed change". 

The main difference will be fewer legitimate listings for G and M-rated clubs - because not every hostess will spend $99 USD to upgrade to Premium, and few club owners will reimburse the hostess or event poster the $99.  Most clubs are run by owners and managers and staff that are NOT Premium.  They have been in SL for over 10 years, often rent private regions and parcels, and have no use for Premium.  And no one will spend 2000 $L/week to list their events at 50 $L/event, unless they are running Adult sex sites.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Jaylinbridges

[Paul Hexem]

1 hour ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Turn off Adult and you won't see adult club spam.  LL is really to blame for not building a compact inworld SL Events app in their viewer.  They could always use the Firestorm Search app, but they won't, because of NIH syndrome.  The web version has no search box and no way to turn off Adult,  just page through 49 pages of listings for one day, 15 to a page.  Nobody can use that - and it's SL's bad design, not the SL Event posters fault.  You can find another  web version via the browser that has the search and adult filters but still needs too much paging.  I think SL Events was designed by three LL committees that never spoke to each other.   It's a mess because it's hard to find, there are several versions, and has nothing that is easy to use in their SL viewer.  So their solution is to charge for listings.  Hardly a "needed change". 

The main difference will be fewer legitimate listings for G and M-rated clubs - because not every hostess will spend $99 USD to upgrade to Premium, and few club owners will reimburse the hostess or event poster the $99.  Most clubs are run by owners and managers and staff that are NOT Premium.  They have been in SL for over 10 years, often rent private regions and parcels, and have no use for Premium.  And no one will spend 2000 $L/week to list their events at 50 $L/event, unless they are running Adult sex sites.

Turning off adult turns off legit events too. Bad advice. I'd rather charge everyone equally. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

21 hours ago, Bridget Hammill said:

sl is a social platform

Not to all of us.

There are many different reasons beyond 'social' for being in SL.

[Adam Spark]

1 hour ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Turn off Adult and you won't see adult club spam.  LL is really to blame for not building a compact inworld SL Events app in their viewer.  They could always use the Firestorm Search app, but they won't, because of NIH syndrome.  The web version has no search box and no way to turn off Adult,  just page through 49 pages of listings for one day, 15 to a page.  Nobody can use that - and it's SL's bad design, not the SL Event posters fault.  You can find another  web version via the browser that has the search and adult filters but still needs too much paging.  I think SL Events was designed by three LL committees that never spoke to each other.   It's a mess because it's hard to find, there are several versions, and has nothing that is easy to use in their SL viewer.  So their solution is to charge for listings.  Hardly a "needed change". 

The main difference will be fewer legitimate listings for G and M-rated clubs - because not every hostess will spend $99 USD to upgrade to Premium, and few club owners will reimburse the hostess or event poster the $99.  Most clubs are run by owners and managers and staff that are NOT Premium.  They have been in SL for over 10 years, often rent private regions and parcels, and have no use for Premium.  And no one will spend 2000 $L/week to list their events at 50 $L/event, unless they are running Adult sex sites.

Recurring events will be added, so there won't be a tremendous amount of per week paying for event posting.

Turn off Adult and you won't see near as many non-adult events, either. Regular events occur on adult regions all the time.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Adam Spark

[Jaylinbridges]

12 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

Recurring events will be added, so there won't be a tremendous amount of per week paying for event posting.

Turn off Adult and you won't see near as many non-adult events, either. Regular events occur on adult regions all the time.

Any club owner that puts an M-rated club on an Adult sim deserves to have his event postings blocked by turning off Adult listings.  The Adult sex "club" spam is the major cause of spam.  If that's what you are looking for, just turn Adult only on in SL Events.  Simply using the available search tools already there solves the spam and " omg, it's a mess" complaints.

This is just another LL business decision to encourage more basic members to upgrade to Premium.  It will be listed as another Premium perk, no charge for recurring events and only 10 $L per unique listing, vs 50 $L and pay for each one.  As far as solving the sex spam problem, it won't do a thing - just wait and see.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Jaylinbridges

[Qie Niangao]

43 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Any club owner that puts a M-rated club on an Adult sim deserves to have his event postings blocked by turning off Adult listings. 

That would put club activities above the venue's other interests which usually pay the bills, especially on Estates, and anyway there's some Zindra features not found anywhere else on Mainland so if you want to own that land you have no choice in how you list any events hosted there. If events are really that big a deal for a land owner -- which is only the case for a few extremely popular clubs -- then bleeding L$50 even every few hours shouldn't make a noticeable difference (assuming an event listing has any value at all, which I doubt).

All that said, I have no idea whether charging for listings will help with the spam problem. As I said above, my searches return no legitimate events of interest at all, so spam is the very least of the reasons I no longer search events.

[Alyona Su]

1 hour ago, Jaylinbridges said:

It will be listed as another Premium perk, no charge for recurring events and only 10 $L per unique listing, vs 50 $L and pay for each one.

One hosts an event to increase income, it's rarely an altruistic effort. L$50 to place an event advertisement is the cost of doing business. Try placing an advertisement in any newspaper, printed or blog, for free. Good luck with that.

[Bridget Hammill]

20 hours ago, Nadia Chatterbox said:

I’ve done the hosting thing for years and posted events per club rules.  Truth be told, $10/50 isn’t a lot.  However, I worked multiple clubs in a day.  When I did this, I worked for my $$.  And, often, I did not get tipped or paid by the club owner/manager.  Often,  I was lucky if I got $100.  I made enough to shop and rent.  And I had fun, and made some friends.    Now, I just invest a few dollars weekly.

So, you club owners requiring this, either pay your hosts to post, this does not include their shift pay.    Or post it yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will tell you that i own one of the largest clubs in Sl and it does not pay for itself.  I have never known any club in sl and pays for itself.  clubs have to find other ways to pay rent such as selling ads or ad boards.  So trusts me the clubs do not make enough to pay staff.  Clubs that do pay staff do not last long in sl as they can not afford to keep doing it.

[Bridget Hammill]

13 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Not to all of us.

There are many different reasons beyond 'social' for being in SL.

I will admit i poorly worded that. And will say that is true.

[Adam Spark]

3 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Any club owner that puts an M-rated club on an Adult sim deserves to have his event postings blocked by turning off Adult listings.  The Adult sex "club" spam is the major cause of spam.  If that's what you are looking for, just turn Adult only on in SL Events.  Simply using the available search tools already there solves the spam and " omg, it's a mess" complaints.

This is just another LL business decision to encourage more basic members to upgrade to Premium.  It will be listed as another Premium perk, no charge for recurring events and only 10 $L per unique listing, vs 50 $L and pay for each one.  As far as solving the sex spam problem, it won't do a thing - just wait and see.

 

 

There are moderate venues who rent land on Adult sims. They should be punished because their parcel has less than adult activities? Adult rating never was intended to guarantee you'll find anything Adult, but to warn that you might and to give the freedom to place such content IF YOU WISH. The rule is do not go beyond your maturity rating, not make sure you push the limit of your maturity rating.

Source on extra charging for recurring events?

Edited November 26, 2019 by Adam Spark

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, Bridget Hammill said:

I will tell you that i own one of the largest clubs in Sl and it does not pay for itself.  I have never known any club in sl and pays for itself.  clubs have to find other ways to pay rent such as selling ads or ad boards. 

it's not really relevant if you get enough tips to pay your rent or not .. and it's a choice to run a club. 
But if  clubowner doesn't pay the hosts or other responsible employees for posting in the events you'r a louzy place to work for. Large club or not.

[Nadia Chatterbox]

4 hours ago, Bridget Hammill said:

I will tell you that i own one of the largest clubs in Sl and it does not pay for itself.  I have never known any club in sl and pays for itself.  clubs have to find other ways to pay rent such as selling ads or ad boards.  So trusts me the clubs do not make enough to pay staff.  Clubs that do pay staff do not last long in sl as they can not afford to keep doing it.

As Alvin said, it’s a choice to own a club.  If you require your hosts to post on the event boards, you should pay for it.  Why should they have to come out of pocket for something when it’s your club, and they’re working for tips?

[Beth Macbain]

2 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

it's not really relevant if you get enough tips to pay your rent or not .. and it's a choice to run a club. 
But if  clubowner doesn't pay the hosts or other responsible employees for posting in the events you'r a louzy place to work for. Large club or not.

The real issue isn't the charging for using the events calendar - it's the awful way clubs and events are run in SL. In its current state, a club will never operate in the black, even those that charge for membership. 

I think that clubs should have cover charges, at least for events, and pay the bills (and that includes the hiring of staff, talent, advertising, tier, etc.) out of that. As it is now, clubs are essentially RPing being clubs since they don't operate in any way like RL clubs. Either swallow the costs of your RP as a club owner, or start operating as a business using real world business acumen. 

I can only speak for myself, but I'd happily pay a cover charge to hear my favorite musician or DJ if it meant that begging for tips for the staff, the talent, AND the club was dramatically decreased. 

[Adam Spark]

4 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

The real issue isn't the charging for using the events calendar - it's the awful way clubs and events are run in SL. In its current state, a club will never operate in the black, even those that charge for membership. 

I think that clubs should have cover charges, at least for events, and pay the bills (and that includes the hiring of staff, talent, advertising, tier, etc.) out of that. As it is now, clubs are essentially RPing being clubs since they don't operate in any way like RL clubs. Either swallow the costs of your RP as a club owner, or start operating as a business using real world business acumen. 

I can only speak for myself, but I'd happily pay a cover charge to hear my favorite musician or DJ if it meant that begging for tips for the staff, the talent, AND the club was dramatically decreased. 

There was a MAJOR push for cover charging a few years ago. Artists banded together and some decided that they would require clubs to set a cover charge to book them.

It fell hard and fast and nobody does it. The people who tried stopped trying after they learned it was never going to work.

In my opinion, one of the tenant principles that make SL what it is is free entertainment with a voluntary payment system. For me, I think there needs to be some sort of way to better encourage people to CHOOSE what and when they pay, rather than tell them if you don't pay stay home. With few exceptions, the SL audience has shown it does not want that.

[Beth Macbain]

12 minutes ago, Adam Spark said:

It fell hard and fast and nobody does it. The people who tried stopped trying after they learned it was never going to work.

Because nothing ever changes and there is only one way to skin a cat.

Sorry, no, I don't buy that excuse. Something not working once is no indicator that something will never work. 

But, you know, if it doesn't work, then club owners, or DJs, or musicians need to stop looking at what they do in SL as anything more than a hobby they have to pay for. Costs increase and prices go up. LL is an actual business, and they have to make money. 

If "business owners" in SL want to make profits then they have to operate like an actual business, and yes, that means charging their customers, and increasing that cost as their own costs go up, just like LL is doing now, and every other actual business does. 

SL is a hobby for me. I was able to engage in my hobby for years without LL raising the cost to me through an increased price for premium, and that was a mistake on their part - not the raising the cost part, but the waiting so long to do it part. 

For eons, LL kept the price for their users the same while their costs for running a business increased all the time. They should have been raising costs for users to keep pace with that but they didn't. 

And now that they are doing the correct thing by increasing their prices and fees, people who either don't know what is involved in running a business, or think that their hobbies in SL should be cheap or free while LL has to operate as a business, are losing their minds. 

TL:DR - LL has to raise their prices to keep up with the costs of doing business because, though their business is running a virtual world, the cost of running that business is not virtual. Either businesses within SL have to raise their costs as well in order to actually be a business, or be content with being a role play "business". 

[Bridget Hammill]

3 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Because nothing ever changes and there is only one way to skin a cat.

Sorry, no, I don't buy that excuse. Something not working once is no indicator that something will never work. 

But, you know, if it doesn't work, then club owners, or DJs, or musicians need to stop looking at what they do in SL as anything more than a hobby they have to pay for. Costs increase and prices go up. LL is an actual business, and they have to make money. 

If "business owners" in SL want to make profits then they have to operate like an actual business, and yes, that means charging their customers, and increasing that cost as their own costs go up, just like LL is doing now, and every other actual business does. 

SL is a hobby for me. I was able to engage in my hobby for years without LL raising the cost to me through an increased price for premium, and that was a mistake on their part - not the raising the cost part, but the waiting so long to do it part. 

For eons, LL kept the price for their users the same while their costs for running a business increased all the time. They should have been raising costs for users to keep pace with that but they didn't. 

And now that they are doing the correct thing by increasing their prices and fees, people who either don't know what is involved in running a business, or think that their hobbies in SL should be cheap or free while LL has to operate as a business, are losing their minds. 

TL:DR - LL has to raise their prices to keep up with the costs of doing business because, though their business is running a virtual world, the cost of running that business is not virtual. Either businesses within SL have to raise their costs as well in order to actually be a business, or be content with being a role play "business". 

I pay over 300 dollars a month US for a sim.  I'm pretty sure I pay.

[Beth Macbain]

1 minute ago, Bridget Hammill said:

I pay over 300 dollars a month US for a sim.  I'm pretty sure I pay.

Okay...

But what does that have to do with anything I said?