Discord relay bot

[Flutters Amethyst]

Hello,

A friend of mine relatively recently put a chat relay on his public club parcel which sends everything that happens in local chat to a public Discord channel on his server (on which a fair amount of people are). Now, I myself found this rather disturbing and it feels like a violation of privacy. He has put up an automatic notice that pops up when you enter the club, which states that everyone is being recorded and that being on the parcel is giving consent.

My question is, is this within the terms of service?

[LittleMe Jewell]

The portion pertaining to Remote Monitoring is:

"Remotely monitoring inworld conversations (text or voice chat) without the knowledge or consent of all parties involved is a violation of the Terms of Service. If you feel recording a conversation is necessary, post a clearly-visible sign in the recording location so that all Residents who enter can see it."

Per the part that I bolded, while it doesn't appear that a sign was posted, you do get notified of the recording.  Thus in my view, they have given you notice and by staying you are giving your consent.  However, only LL can determine whether or not the pop-up notice when you arrive is considered pretty much the same as posting a clearly visible sign.  AR the location and provide your thoughts on why they are in violation of the above.

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by LittleMe Jewell

[Cindy Evanier]

8 minutes ago, PrincessFlutters said:

Hello,

A friend of mine relatively recently put a chat relay on his public club parcel which sends everything that happens in local chat to a public Discord channel on his server (on which a fair amount of people are). Now, I myself found this rather disturbing and it feels like a violation of privacy. He has put up an automatic notice that pops up when you enter the club, which states that everyone is being recorded and that being on the parcel is giving consent.

My question is, is this within the terms of service?

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Residents'_privacy_rights

No

Or here https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/community-standards  

 Except for the purpose of reporting abuse or any violation of policies to Linden Lab, the remote monitoring, posting or sharing of conversations without a participant’s consent are prohibited.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Cindy Evanier

[Cindy Evanier]

3 minutes ago, PrincessFlutters said:

So it's not for an abuse report.

I disagree.  Filing an abuse report clearly and concisely pointing your report to those links will only flag it up for someone in LL to look at it.  If they find it is ok then nothing will happen and no harm done.  It's a shame you can't name and shame the club directly on the forums because I am sure most of us would prefer to avoid that.  

[Cindy Evanier]

2 hours ago, giggles3440 said:

Technically It says here in the website of There ToS :  https://gyazo.com/0484bd7bba7bf0aa77989fa9421fe046

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Residents'_privacy_rights

 

3rd Paragraph Of Remote Monitoring at the end of there partial paragraph  "If you feel recording a conversation is necessary, post a clearly-visible sign in the recording location so that all Residents who enter can see it."

Anyone can contact support and ask for clarification.  

[Flutters Amethyst]

7 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Residents'_privacy_rights

No

Or here https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/community-standards  

 Except for the purpose of reporting abuse or any violation of policies to Linden Lab, the remote monitoring, posting or sharing of conversations without a participant’s consent are prohibited.

The logs are instantly transmitted to a publicly viewable channel in his Discord server. So it's not for an abuse report. There also is no separate spot on the area that is not monitored, so from the moment you enter and while you get the notice, you are already being monitored.

Thank you for these links.

[Lindal Kidd]

I agree with Lil.  The pop-up notice constitutes notification (and is arguably better than a sign).  Thus, it's (IMO) within the ToS.

I wouldn't go there, though.  If I did, I'd communicate only in IM.

[animats]

"You realize this will become a part of your Permanent Record".

(Much less of a joke than it used to be.)

[Chaser Zaks]

Provided there is proper notice, there isn't a problem.

I do this on my home parcel and have this notice printed out to nearby chat to ANYONE who enters my parcel:

Quote

PRIVACY NOTICE: Chat on this parcel is synchronized with a remote chat. Local chat said here will be transmitted to a remote server.\nIf you do not agree with to this, please leave the parcel. If you wish for any chat logs to be deleted, please contact secondlife:///app/agent/796b1537-70d8-497d-934e-0abcc2a60050/im and I'll look into it.

 

[bigmoe Whitfield]

18 hours ago, Chaser Zaks said:

Provided there is proper notice, there isn't a problem.

I do this on my home parcel and have this notice printed out to nearby chat to ANYONE who enters my parcel:

 

I am still looking for a product that does relay to discord for my visitor list and will send purchases that people make from my vendor to discord, but far as I've gotten is region restarts.

[giggles3440]

On 11/23/2019 at 6:19 AM, Cindy Evanier said:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Residents'_privacy_rights

No

Or here https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/community-standards  

 Except for the purpose of reporting abuse or any violation of policies to Linden Lab, the remote monitoring, posting or sharing of conversations without a participant’s consent are prohibited.

Technically It says here in the website of There ToS :  https://gyazo.com/0484bd7bba7bf0aa77989fa9421fe046

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Residents'_privacy_rights

 

3rd Paragraph Of Remote Monitoring at the end of there partial paragraph  "If you feel recording a conversation is necessary, post a clearly-visible sign in the recording location so that all Residents who enter can see it."

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

I would have to disagree that it would be ok to do. Just because you enter a group or sim does not mean you are giving consent to anyone in that group of sim just by being there. If anything that club needs to provide an opt-out option where anyone that doesnt want to be monitored can be asked not to be. In fact you can contact the sim owner and tell them you dont give consent and that you revoke any implied or assumed consent that they have tried to take from you. The worst case is they will kick you or ban you from coming back to the sim. If they dont and they continue to try and monitor you, You can report them for breach of ToS at that point.

No individual outside of LL has the right to arbitrarily modify anyones right to consent for any reason, be it in a group or sim. You cannot force consent to be given or imply consent is given or assume consent is given just because you entered an area or group ever, that is not how consent works and never was.

Sign or not post or not local message or not consent doesnt legally work that way. You always have the right to revoke consent to monitoring, at most all they can do is tell you to leave and not come back. At which point you tell all your friends and anyone else about the group/club/sim and what they do so less people go there.

Once it gets around word of mouth that people are being monitored against their consent less people will go there over time and the place will die out.

[EuthymiaGervasius]

I don't see anything wrong with any of it.

1) It's a public sim. IRL as in SL you have little expectation of privacy in public, which is why every day you're recorded by any number of cameras from security cameras to accidentally photobombing someone else's picture or video without you even knowing about it.

2) It's local chat. It's basically the equivalent of you talking to someone on a street corner or crowded bus or something where what you say may be picked up by a security camera or even someone nearby completely within their own rights talking on the phone

3) The public sim is pretty much like any number of stores or businesses you might walk into on any given day. They are completely within their rights to record what goes on inside their store. Many of those security cameras are becoming equipped with sound recording capabilities too.

4) Your chat logs are being saved anyway. By you and anyone else in the sim who has the option enabled.

Are you going to get mad at the person next to you on a bus that's on the phone because your conversation is being heard by the person on the other end of the call?

Are you going to sue your neighbor because they installed a Ring style doorbell with a camera in it, and you happened to be walking your dog as the pizza delivery guy rang their doorbell? Or that a stray cat ran across their lawn, activating their motion activated security camera, as you happened to be walking down the street.

I'm all for privacy, but privacy has its limits. Especially in public settings. I see the chat logs as I would any security camera. It's for my protection as much as it is for theirs. If something happened and I was accused, you can look back at the logs and determine what really happened. Since it's a bot automatically posting the logs to discord, it would be reasonable to assume that the logs have not been tampered with.

[Lucia Nightfire]

Maybe @Kristin Linden can shed some light on the subject?

[bigmoe Whitfield]

On 11/1/2020 at 5:00 PM, Lucia Nightfire said:

Maybe @Kristin Linden can shed some light on the subject?

maybe,  I know anything outside their scope they have said htey can not do anything about,  but wonder if local open chat is a grey area?

[Rowan Amore]

There should be a notice that you have to agree to before entering into the area being recorded.