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Genuine inquiry and concern for some of the adult content.


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Yeah you know what I meant, and I'm dyslexic so... please respect what I asked in the first place and keep this civil. 

2 hours ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

'Border' as boarder is a whole other thing. I realise spelling is no longer a hip thing.

 

Edited by AnonymousConcern
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Some housekeeping in no particular order: Naming and shaming isn't permitted on the forums. Any comments in this thread that engaged in that have been hidden Inappropriate content for the

Not the case in the US. Unless it’s categorized as obscene imagery which has pretty strict criteria and requires a jury in court to make the decision on if it’s obscene or not.  And it’s not exactly

I'm going to go ahead and lock this, as it's getting a little out of hand. For more information on what you can do when you see violations of the rules, see my previous replies in this thread.

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its not just a case of this being weird, some of those things are things in RL that are so bann-able on the internet, that people have to use their own software to access them. Aka the Deep/Dark web. Even then they are still found by FBI and shut down.

MP guidelines which are being broken via those links I have shown as an example:

Banned Content Is Not Allowed For Any Residents.

  • Non-consensual sexual content, or any content or items that depict or suggest sexual activity that all parties involved did not consent to.
  • Sexual content involving minors, or any sexually explicit or suggestive content or items depicting minors.
  • Cruel or hateful content, or content or items that depict or suggest cruelty or hatred towards individuals or animals.

Reference: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/listing_guidelines#disallowed-actions

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depict or suggest sexual activity that all parties involved did not consent to.

 

Now look at that very carefully. "Depict or Suggest". RP is a depiction. Those objects enable depiction, and suggest too. To be honest, I think both SL TOS, and Guidelines need a review and updating. As there isn't enough detail. Sure I know what they mean. I can understand why people don't fully understand aswell though. I feel strongly about having the rules updated and regulated more. 

 

I'll be completely straight with you. It's not just other people I am speaking out for. It's myself too. It breaks my heart that these forms of "RP" etc are being allowed to remain. I have very personal resignation. due to my own experiences in the real world. I know how dangerous these subjects are in reality. It's also difficult because I have been a victim. It's like being told we who have don't matter, metaphorically, shut up and get over it. When really, we just can't. 

 

Edited by AnonymousConcern
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anonymous, I think you are starting to go around in circles on this

if you have flagged stuff that you believe is against ToS and Linden haven't removed it then it can be surmised that a) Linden either haven't got to processing/reviewing your flag yet, or b) Linden have and they disagree with you

in the latter case then the steps open to you are: Raise an Abuse Report ticket about the item (paper trailing). Then if the item you have flagged and have subsequently raised a ticket for is not removed because Linden have not taken the action that you would like, then if you want, you can escalate it and make a formal complaint to a RL policing authority as any RL citizen can do

 

Edited by Mollymews
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1 minute ago, Mollymews said:

anonymous, I think you are starting to go around in circles on this

if you have flagged stuff that you believe is against ToS and Linden haven't removed it then it can be surmised that a) Linden either haven't got to processing/reviewing your flag yet, or b) Linden have and they disagree with you

in the latter case then the steps open to you are: Raise an Abuse Report ticket about the item (paper trailing). Then if the item you have flagged and have subsequently raised a ticket for is not removed because Linden have not taken the action that you would like, then if you want, you can escalate it and make a formal complaint to a RL policing authority as any RL citizen can do

 

It's not just me speaking on this, many people agree and state nothing is done when reporting. It's not even just this its other areas too. Someone can be harassing, crashing etc they'll still be logging in just fine. I am aware I can go to the police. However I have chosen to speak on here. It's my first and only attempt to raise it on here then if nothing is done I'll decide what to do from there. I'm just sick of myself and many being ignored. 

Even if this stuff wasn't in the guidelines etc. I'd still have something to say because its morally wrong. We're not all a bunch of robots following instructions from a master. We are real people, with real feelings. I have much compassion of this subject. My aims to get a little more respect for whats right.

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I'm not completely against the adult scene by the way ok. If you wanna be a stripper, a nudest, escort, submissive etc. You do that. But, is there any benefit from making it into something that is so evil, so life threatening in the real world? Why glorify that? I never will understand why people would even try defend it never mind participate. Can we just make SL a safer environment for all? At the least, maybe these things don't have to be so public. Do it in the own privacy of your own land, stop advertising/normalizing it for the whole of SL. It's not fair on people like myself and others who are effected by this negatively - and in my opinion rightly so. 

 

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9 minutes ago, AnonymousConcern said:

It's not just me speaking on this, many people agree and state nothing is done when reporting. It's not even just this its other areas too. Someone can be harassing, crashing etc they'll still be logging in just fine. I am aware I can go to the police. However I have chosen to speak on here. It's my first and only attempt to raise it on here then if nothing is done I'll decide what to do from there. I'm just sick of myself and many being ignored. 

Even if this stuff wasn't in the guidelines etc. I'd still have something to say because its morally wrong. We're not all a bunch of robots following instructions from a master. We are real people, with real feelings. I have much compassion of this subject. My aims to get a little more respect for whats right.

well at least 9 different people haven't ignored you here including me. So you have been heard on here, at least by this many people

that you have past experiences with stuff that caused you distress and you want to relate your experience to others about this then is all good. In doing so then some people will give you their thoughts  in return, as they have. Which is all good as well, in the sense that communication and exchange of thoughts is in itself a good thing

 

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55 minutes ago, AnonymousConcern said:

its not just a case of this being weird, some of those things are things in RL that are so bann-able on the internet, that people have to use their own software to access them. Aka the Deep/Dark web. Even then they are still found by FBI and shut down.

On all three categories the only one that is entirely illegal is child pornography. And only if it’s real or if it’s an artificial media of indiscernible or nearly so visual appearance where it could be confused as being real. Created artificial media on that content is what’s subject to the obscenity laws and only if the work as a whole has no redeemable artistic value or qualities. This is a whole other debate but plain and simple some mildly creepy underwear isn’t a problem so long as it’s not showing anything. A fabric material isn’t technically sexual.

Zoophilic content as well is only illegal to own or distribute in Oregon, that includes the real deal.  And while the act itself is illegal in all but 4(3 now maybe?) states, the recorded media content isn’t. There is no dark web involved there. Any artificial media as well is entirely unrelated and unregulated. 

And finally rape play as a consensual fetish porn is not considered illegal at all. It’s a roleplay, as disgusting as such a roleplay is, both parties agree to do such a thing and create aforementioned content. These items on SecondLife are not an equivalent to real rape, they are an equivalent to a consensual fetish. 
 

1 hour ago, AnonymousConcern said:

MP guidelines which are being broken via those links I have shown as an example:

One could argue that simulated rape play is not a depiction of a non consensual act but a depiction of a consensual act. Because you could claim you are depicting not the act of rape but the act of rape play as a sexual roleplay. One of those wording workarounds but it’s kinda like mirroring the mirror, you’re not party 2 you’re party 3. 
 

Child sexual content is of course prohibited but you have to take into consideration what exactly is sexually suggestive content. Is lace on its own sexually suggestive? In the case of what you shared previously the clothing article in question isn’t exactly full detail lingerie, it’s a one piece in a dense black lace. While I personally wouldn’t call that sexually suggestive, someone else might. That’s something to be handled individually by LL on wether they want to consider it sexually suggestive or not.

And lastly, depictions of cruel abuse to animals. This is again the zoophilia gray area. Because one has to question if they want to consider a sexual act involve a quadrupedal avatar abusive or animal cruelty or not. Is that avatar technically an animal or are they a “feral” avatar furry? There’s also the criteria for real Zoophilic content in play here which qualifies it as animal abuse in many states but not all, and that is if there’s penetration or who’s on top. There are about to be two very explicit sentences here so skim over them if you don’t want to hate your brain for a few minutes. Say the above picture with the horse on top, that wouldn’t be considered animal abuse since the animal is the one doing the penetration and isn’t being penetrated. The other way around however, penetrating an animal, is where it becomes animal abuse in a sexual context. So it really comes down to exactly what is happening and if that avatar can be considered a proper depiction of an animal and if that animal is being abused. By this nature two feral avatars going at eachother wouldn’t be considered against the rules since it’s not animal abuse. Nor would the feral avatar being on top be considered animal abuse. So instead of this being a market issue it’s now entirely an ingame issue of how that item is used.

In the same sense that you can have guns in SL and they are permitted, acts of violence are not. You can’t remove the guns from SL just because someone decided to reenact a school shooting, you can’t remove the Zoophilic sex animations because someone topped a dog. Just because it has the capability does not mean it’s the exclusive purpose of intent of the item.

1 hour ago, AnonymousConcern said:

I think both SL TOS, and Guidelines need a review and updating. As there isn't enough detail. Sure I know what they mean. I can understand why people don't fully understand aswell though. I feel strongly about having the rules updated and regulated more. 

This is a very important point. These guidelines are super vague and need expanding. Because not all of the different categories of TOS work with eachother, LL’s general TOS vs the SL TOS vs the marketplace TOS vs content guidelines vs the “additions” to the TOS’s over time. There needs to be a lot more detail on these different categories of content, explanations on what is and isn’t sexually explicit, abusive, or what qualifies as a depiction.

55 minutes ago, AnonymousConcern said:

I'd still have something to say because its morally wrong. We're not all a bunch of robots following instructions from a master. We are real people, with real feelings. I have much compassion of this subject. My aims to get a little more respect for whats right.

But this is where I twist my stance. I’ll state this very simply. Your morals have absolutely zero bearing on the content on SL whatsoever. Just because you or many others are against something does not mean you can remove it on moral grounds. Basing laws and rules on morality rather than freedom are why thing like gay marriage are still illegal in many places. 
While I morally despise people who would look to engage in even virtual Zoophilia (because god damn are those people a never ending problem in the furry community), I will defend your right to be a morally bankrupt degenerate in the name of freedom. It’s virtual, non real content in a safe, artificial medium, nobody is being hurt, and no laws are being broken, therefore absolutely nothing whatsoever is being done wrong, regardless of how I feel about it morally.

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Ok cheesecurd I am done replying to you now as you are just determined to argue. I'm not asking for an opinion against what I am saying. You have no right to try talk down to me and change my mind. You WONT change my mind so take a hint and learn when enough is enough. 

Edited by AnonymousConcern
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1 hour ago, AnonymousConcern said:

You know what, it's actually upsetting me tbh how cold this thread is going. Have a think of those who have been through experiences in RL like listed. Might have a bit of sensitivity then. 

I just really don’t understand your mentality here, if you don’t like it, don’t partake in it. But other people do and it’s their personal decision to partake in it. Regardless of what “it” is.

You wouldn’t expect someone affected by say, War, to really enjoy every aspect of Battlefield. But those people aren’t advocating for the removal of all military first person shooters from the market because they think it’s wrong, they just don’t play them.

If you are against it then don’t involve yourself with it. SecondLife is about a lot more than sex anyway, but if you don’t like it and won’t be part of it then it’s not your business. 

 

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Some housekeeping in no particular order:

  • Naming and shaming isn't permitted on the forums. Any comments in this thread that engaged in that have been hidden
  • Inappropriate content for the Marketplace should be flagged under Spam or Disallowed Listing Practices > Harmful or Disruptive Content for review by our Marketplace team , who will review it and take action if necessary. We review those flags pretty frequently. If you notice something sticking around that you feel pretty strongly about for one reason or another that wasn't removed after flagging, go ahead and submit a Support ticket to the Marketplace team to ask for a second opinion. Just make sure you're using the Flag option first, since contacting Support is going to take longer for the Marketplace team to see and review it.
  • Adult diaper play is allowed. This is where an adult avatar wears a diaper. You do you boo boo
  • Child sexual activity is strictly prohibited and will result in immediate termination of all Second Life accounts past, present, and future. The same applies to real-life depictions of sexual activity between humans and animals. The rules on this are broad, so trying to walk right up to that line is a bad idea. For that, it's one strike, and you're out. If you spot anything like this in-world, an Abuse Report is the appropriate place to let our Governance team know about the issue. If you have additional information that doesn't fit in an Abuse Report, you can submit a Support case to add supplementary information. The Support team can't assist you directly with Abuse issues, but they can make sure the Governance team is aware of the additional information.
  • Nudity isn't disallowed per se, but it must occur in a non-sexual context.
  • We're serious about privacy, so we don't disclose account actions to anyone other than the person who the action was taken against. That can sometimes give the false impression that nothing is being done, but we are, indeed, reviewing flags and investigating reports.

I don't really have a good joke for this post, since so much of this is serious business

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21 minutes ago, Jagix Linden said:

The same applies to real-life depictions of sexual activity between humans and animals. The rules on this are broad, so trying to walk right up to that line is a bad idea.

This is the topic I’m most interested in because there is very little specific information on this. What qualifies as a real-life depiction? Obviously nothing that’s real-real. But does that mean SL exclusively created content or artificial media (ie paintings, drawings, animation, whatever so long as it’s hand created) are allowed?

Does a “real life depiction” exclusively mean real life photography or video or does that also mean a virtual depiction of a real life act? I guess to simplify this to a yes/no:

Can a human avatar participate in sexual activity with an animal avatar?

Can a human avatar participate in sexual activity with a non avatar, inanimate animal object?

Are non human avatars bound to the same rule, as they aren’t human? (Two animal avatars, animal avatar with inanimate object, furries, elves, robots/androids or other non human avatars)

26 minutes ago, Jagix Linden said:

Nudity isn't disallowed per se, but it must occur in a non-sexual context.

So technically any sexual content is against the rules? Does this just apply to the marketplace? That makes things kind of difficult because one could consider any form of genitalia that has any function other than decoration would be sexual at some level.

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33 minutes ago, Jagix Linden said:

The nudity comment pertains specifically to child avatars.

Real means real. Real images of sexual contact with animals and humans are not permitted under any circumstances.

Alright. That clears up a lot.

It would be interesting to see the TOS and rules cleaned up and expanded on a bit in the future. Right now it’s a little confusing to dig through all the different layers and piece it together. Having everything centralized into one gigantic list would be very useful.

I think in this thread alone we’ve collectively mentioned the LL TOS, SL TOS and additions and the marketplace TOS separately.

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1 hour ago, Jagix Linden said:

The best place to go for the rules is the Second Life Terms and Conditions. Section 7 links to clarification on additional policies. I think the only thing missing from there is the Bot Policy.

 

Ok Jax, so what about the items that enable rp of non-consentual sex? Drugging for non-consentual sex? As I and others keep reporting them and nothing. When your guidelines clearly state they are not allowed/banned content? 

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15 hours ago, AnonymousConcern said:

Banned Content Is Not Allowed For Any Residents.

  • Non-consensual sexual content, or any content or items that depict or suggest sexual activity that all parties involved did not consent to.
  • Sexual content involving minors, or any sexually explicit or suggestive content or items depicting minors.
  • Cruel or hateful content, or content or items that depict or suggest cruelty or hatred towards individuals or animals.

Reference: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/listing_guidelines#disallowed-actions

This is what I am talking about. MP is filled with this content. It's even in featured areas. But nothing is done.

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I urge you in LL honestly to get into SL, MP and look around and what is going on. There's only so much us residents can do via reporting/flagging. The rape RP is particularly concerning as it's everywhere. People like myself who have trauma from that don't need it in our faces like this.

 

(Everywhere metaphorically speaking)

Edited by AnonymousConcern
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The best option if you're unsure about a listing is to flag it on the Marketplace for review by the Marketplace team.

If you need a second opinion, create a Support ticket under the Marketplace category, mention that you already flagged it, and you'd like someone to take a second look.

I will reiterate that real-life images of sexual activity between humans and animals is a severe violation of the Terms and Conditions and Community Standards.

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2 hours ago, AnonymousConcern said:

I urge you in LL honestly to get into SL, MP and look around and what is going on. There's only so much us residents can do via reporting/flagging. The rape RP is particularly concerning as it's everywhere. People like myself who have trauma from that don't need it in our faces like this.

 

(Everywhere metaphorically speaking)

Just curious as to how you have your search maturity ratings set for MP and for places that you go to in-world.  I usually keep mine on just "General and Moderate" especially on MP and on the in-world search.   I was trying to remember the last time I was somewhere where I saw anything about rape RP...  

I think that one can moderate their own settings and the types of places that they choose to go to, so that one is not subjected to seeing what looks like non-consensual sexual activity or other fetishes that one may not approve of or feel is right.   

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Hi! Trauma survivor here, the internet is not built to cater itself to our needs. Do not speak for me.

You need to adjust your settings so you don't stumble across things that upset you, or maybe don't go looking for things that trigger you on purpose. That is nobody's fault but your own because it's up to you to protect yourself. I've had one account for nearly ten years and this one for over a year, and can say I've only ran into rape themed stuff when I ... actually, you know, ended up looking through the heavier stuff. I expected as much when I went looking. 🤷 Rape fantasy is just that, a fantasy. People are consenting to it when they engage in it. Sure, their character isn't consenting, but them clicking into that area or using the furniture means the user is consenting.

You also seem to forget people also like engaging in fantasy "bad" stuff because it's... 1. Safe, it's not happening in reality. 2. They have some control, they get to choose when to stop interacting 3. They've got the power they didn't have when it happened to them in life. 3 isn't applicable to everybody, but I've met enough folks over the years that I mention it anyway. You do not get to decide if it is "right" or "wrong" for them, they do. If you don't like RLV related stuff, turn it off.

AFK sims and whatnot... they're consenting to have their characters used while they're afk or doing other things as well as watching their chat. There's actual sleeping sex dolls and whatnot you can get. They're not breaking rules. The ones who buy and use them, are of course, consenting. Somnophilia is a thing and people, y'know, enjoy it? And, by the way, Somnophilia is legal -- you know it ties into consent. I've had two exes who were totally fine with me interacting with them while they were asleep and I was also fine with it.  Long as I didn't have to get up early for an app or class, it wasn't a big deal, go nuts honey.

 

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35 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

I think that one can moderate their own settings and the types of places that they choose to go to, so that one is not subjected to seeing what looks like non-consensual sexual activity or other fetishes that one may not approve of or feel is right.   

Shhssshshhh ... don't you go ruining the "I wanna be upset about things I could easily ignore" trolling / tripping. ☺️

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I am not trolling/tripping, you know what trolling even is? I know I can turn off adult but why assume I don't want anything to do with the adult side either? Again, this isn't a concern of an adult community. It's the content. I and MANY not just you, not just me, OTHERS are also effected. I avoid these things as much as possible. However I am requesting that there is a reconsideration of how much is let slide in these matters. 

It condones and normalizes these things. Some of these huds etc for it even have RL voice screams etc. Like HOW is that ok?! How is RP of spiking people with a date rape drug acceptable? How is a pacifier gag acceptable? How is a pose ball set for sex with animals ok? How is it ok to have discriptions even in the names of.places such as "horror rape asylum" "dark alley way rape" acceptable?!

These situations have SERIOUS consequences in rl. People die from these situations in RL!!!

Like I said earlier, the only reason I can see that people do defend it is as people use this as a way to get Linden's in SL. I mean why else would someone want to RP something that is complete evil unless they are servely disturbed and likely UNSAFE to be around?!? 

Like have I gone insane or what? Why are you defending such an evil matter?!?!

Why are you defending any normalisation of these matters?? 

Edited by AnonymousConcern
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If anything, these things should be banned just out of respect for those effected. We wouldn't accept racism, homophobia and damn straight that's perfectly fine. So why are we technically mocking victims?! Why are we making these things "normal" and safe?! They are not! 

Edited by AnonymousConcern
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