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2 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

I think we can make new basic accounts with the new last names. That's pretty much my main concern. 

No, it's not possible. It has been stated all that new accounts at creation will have a choice only for single word username, no last name choice available at account creation. After the account has been created and if they want to have a better name - first and last - they have to first upgrade to premium. After that they can change their account name and pay a fee for it.

Naturally because LL is a business, they want that at account creation you have only a bad name choice available. Only that way they can hope to get some income from the name change thing. Good for them, if there are lots of people changing their account name, not so great for new people coming to SL.

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There can be miiiiiiraaaacles When you beeeeliiiiiiiieve

The only highlights of that post were the last name contest and the new linden homes themes tbh. The rest is just crap. Doubling the marketplace commission, adding a new premium tier that no one asked

Official blog -  The highlight for me is that there's a contest to choose last names, and you can win one.   

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I would not say that all single word user names are "bad name choices".  True, I much preferred the original system of picking a surname from a list and then finding/choosing/inventing a first name to go with it.  But lots of clever residents have come up with unique, funny, and memorable names under the one-name system too.

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1 minute ago, Lindal Kidd said:

I would not say that all single word user names are "bad name choices".  True, I much preferred the original system of picking a surname from a list and then finding/choosing/inventing a first name to go with it.  But lots of clever residents have come up with unique, funny, and memorable names under the one-name system too.

You can still make a double name by choosing your own first AND last name, putting them together and capitalizing appropriately. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Patch Linden said:

Just to clear this up, there is no conflict of information,  There is an important piece of context missing:

1e35eeac3bef02948fdea98e08dee9a7.png

For clarity, my response was to:  "Everyone", as in accounts with the first name/surname combination versus "Resident" last named accounts.   Everyone regardless of account name structure (surnamed or Resident) can have a name change.   I was not responding to discussion at that time about what account types (Premium, benefits etc.) in that forum thread. 

So that means the LL post from today which says name changes will be available only for premium accounts (as I understood it) is correct or does it mean that last names for new accounts will be only for premium accounts? In other words, only new premium accounts will get last names and basic accounts will be stuck with Resident?

Sorry, I'm finding the whole thing a bit confusing.

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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11 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Well, what is exactly wrong with the MP? It generally works.

Oh, except for those times when LL accidentally unlists ALL of your products. ALL. Which for me is like hundreds, given not only the gatchas but all these little tschotchkes I make. Hey, what's up with that! And then you yourself have to list them all again. There's no "going back in time" as there is on a sim.

The re-delivery page is great because so many merchants either don't offer it or hide it so well in their stores that you buy 10 things before you find it. Oh, I guess that's the reason they hide it, then.

The only problem is that it is SO SLOW. I don't understand why. I do realize that searching for an item I got in 2016 is something I have to "leave and go cook dinner" to execute.

The Lindens listened to all the forums agitation, which isn't representative of anything, really, and now they're going to enable the blocking of limited quantities which are mainly gatchas. Who is going to use it except a few forums' harridans?

I'd much rather they block the textures of certain farm game crates so that you can look for actual textures and items, for that matter.

What's not to like? The MP is great!

 

Sometimes I can't tell if you're being serious, or not. I suppose that's one of my many flaws. I'm going to pretend you're being funny (if you're not, I don't apologize, lmao)

Some of the changes they are proposing (I would never say promising..I know better, lmao) are things people, not just forumites, have been asking for, for years. I respect that LL may want to implement some of them, especially ones that are relatively easy(since the coding already exists and is in use and would require very few changes at all, literally a couple words changed and copy/pastes, super simple).

I just think it's stupid as hell for them to do anything at all with the MP until they address the current major problem. It's not even putting the cart before the horse...the horse hasn't been born yet and the cart's still a tree in the forest. 

I'll still use MP, still support countless creators and merchants on MP and still help others struggling with problems, especially this one, because it really is 100% out of merchant hands (unlike some others which are a mixed bag or merchant created problems). But I'll still remain vocal about the asshatery, because it's important. 

What's that saying.. "don't piss on me and tell me it's raining"...?

Yeah, that's what most changes to the MP (as it stands right now) are, except way more nonsensical. This particular issue is going to be made worse by the changes, not better. I really don't think some people understand just how many merchants, especially outside of these forums, have been bent over on this one without so much as a hello. 

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2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

So that means the LL post from today which says name changes will be available only for premium accounts (as I understood it) is correct or does it mean that last names for new accounts will be only for premium accounts? In other only new premium accounts will get last names and basic accounts will be stuck with Resident?

Sorry, I'm finding the whole thing a bit confusing.

"Everyone" implies..everyone.

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6 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

So that means the LL post from today which says name changes will be available only for premium accounts (as I understood it) is correct or does it mean that last names for new accounts will be only for premium accounts? In other words, only new premium accounts will get last names and basic accounts will be stuck with Resident?

Sorry, I'm finding the whole thing a bit confusing.

Patch could've said it more simply: Any premium account holder who pays the fee can change their name, whether they currently have a last name or not.

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4 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

Patch could've said it more simply: Any premium account holder who pays the fee can change their name, whether they currently have a last name or not.

I got that. That's not what I'm asking. From the way things read to me, it's the LL blog post is saying that only new premium accounts will be able to choose a last name and new basics will not have a choice. Emphasis on new.

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8 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

I would not say that all single word user names are "bad name choices".

That's true, not all. Even with single name it still is possible to create a good name.

But most single names are bad (can happen even with first and last name combination) because people don't think properly when creating their account. They might have a false idea that they can easily change their account name later. And later they notice that they can't. One other reason for the thousands and thousands of bad account names is that that at account creation window there is no warning that the account name will be visible for everybody.

:ph34r: "Hmm... it seems that all good names have been taken. I'll just type some random letters now and change the name later to better one..."

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2 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

Yes, new basics don't get a last name.

Well that sucks. And it's going to piss a lot of basics off and won't encourage them to sign up for premium.

 

Anyway... Friday's coming so I should be inworld tomorrow evening. Are we polling yet? lol

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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While I, too, don't like EVERYTHING about this, I think some things are going unnoticed. Lets break this down:

Premium only for last names? Ok. That should satisfy SOME of the folks who asked for it. Not great (and I'm premium, I just care about the community and think beyond how it effects me), but its a start. Contest with albeit limited giveaways of free name changes to anyone is a nice compromise.

A premium feature that has to be paid for additionally, however? Alrighty then.

Marketplace commissions are going up. Ok I get it. But did anyone notice at all that listing enhancement fees are being reduced? Besides, this is the first time this spike has occurred. Prices of everything go up. Without exception. Thats life. I'm amazed this hasn't happened sooner, and we should be grateful. This is a business, folks.

Having to pay for event listings. My initial feeling was mixed, but now that I see 10L for premium and 50L for basic,  I'm thrilled. This will undoubtedly curb spam. I just hope initially it doesn't make it harder to convince venues to post their events when we are now asking them to pay for it. Eventually I think venues will bite when they see how clean the events calendar will become.

The ability to follow event hosts sounds good, but I would suggest it should allow us to follow SLURL's instead, because of host turnover. I don't want to miss out because JaneDoe doesn't work at Club X anymore.

A personal events calendar? A news feed? Potentially huge.

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15 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

Sometimes I can't tell if you're being serious, or not. I suppose that's one of my many flaws. I'm going to pretend you're being funny (if you're not, I don't apologize, lmao)

Some of the changes they are proposing (I would never say promising..I know better, lmao) are things people, not just forumites, have been asking for, for years. I respect that LL may want to implement some of them, especially ones that are relatively easy(since the coding already exists and is in use and would require very few changes at all, literally a couple words changed and copy/pastes, super simple).

I just think it's stupid as hell for them to do anything at all with the MP until they address the current major problem. It's not even putting the cart before the horse...the horse hasn't been born yet and the cart's still a tree in the forest. 

I'll still use MP, still support countless creators and merchants on MP and still help others struggling with problems, especially this one, because it really is 100% out of merchant hands (unlike some others which are a mixed bag or merchant created problems). But I'll still remain vocal about the asshatery, because it's important. 

What's that saying.. "don't piss on me and tell me it's raining"...?

Yeah, that's what most changes to the MP (as it stands right now) are, except way more nonsensical. This particular issue is going to be made worse by the changes, not better. I really don't think some people understand just how many merchants, especially outside of these forums, have been bent over on this one without so much as a hello. 

What's the major problem? You aren't saying what it is, and proving that it is major.

You can search for things and buy them easily on the MP.

You can sell things on the MP which can be hard if you aren't big and important and have a big ad budget.

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3 minutes ago, Coby Foden said:

That's true, not all. Even with single name it still is possible to create a good name.

But most single names are bad (can happen even with first and last name combination) because people don't think properly when creating their account. They might have a false idea that they can easily change their account name later. And later they notice that they can't. One other reason for the thousands and thousands of bad account names is that that at account creation window there is no warning that the account name will be visible for everybody.

:ph34r: "Hmm... it seems that all good names have been taken. I'll just type some random letters now and change the name later to better one..."

That's what happened to this noob 10 years ago, and why my name has carried a spelling error in it ever since. Even if I could change it now, I wouldn't. 'tis my name. :)

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1 minute ago, Adam Spark said:

While I, too, don't like EVERYTHING about this, I think some things are going unnoticed. Lets break this down:

Premium only for last names? Ok. That should satisfy SOME of the folks who asked for it. Not great (and I'm premium, I just care about the community and think beyond how it effects me), but its a start. Contest with albeit limited giveaways of free name changes to anyone is a nice compromise.

A premium feature that has to be paid for additionally, however? Alrighty then.

Marketplace commissions are going up. Ok I get it. But did anyone notice at all that listing enhancement fees are being reduced? Besides, this is the first time this spike has occurred. Prices of everything go up. Without exception. Thats life. I'm amazed this hasn't happened sooner, and we should be grateful. This is a business, folks.

Having to pay for event listings. My initial feeling was mixed, but now that I see 10L for premium and 50L for basic,  I'm thrilled. This will undoubtedly curb spam. I just hope initially it doesn't make it harder to convince venues to post their events when we are now asking them to pay for it. Eventually I think venues will bite when they see how clean the events calendar will become.

The ability to follow event hosts sounds good, but I would suggest it should allow us to follow SLURL's instead, because of host turnover. I don't want to miss out because JaneDoe doesn't work at Club X anymore.

A personal events calendar? A news feed? Potentially huge.

Charging to list events like you charge for ads in land or making a group or whatever is really a brilliant and overdue feature and I do hope it will get rid of the gadzillion of spam events at which the event "planner" isn't even present as they are merely glorified ads to sell stuff.

I'm all for ads to sell stuff, and we don't have enough capacity for this in SL.

But because we don't, it bleeds into other venues like events or 16 m parcels.

The Lindens tried to wrangle events in the past at oldbies' behest who hated commerce and hated new people doing commerce, and they took a very punitive approach. They revised this with a notion that yes, you can advertise a new product you made or a new condo development as an "event". That is now abused, of course.

$10 is not really enough to restore sanity. I think $100 might so clean up the events list that it might finally become usable again. 

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6 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I got that. That's not what I'm asking. From the way things read to me, it's the LL blog post is saying that only new premium accounts will be able to choose a last name and new basics will not have a choice. Emphasis on new.

After the last name feature has been made available things go like this:

• At new account creation process there is only single names option available - no last name choice.
• Basic accounts (new and old) cannot change the account name ever.
• Any account (new and old) which is premium account can change the account name. There is a fee for the name change.
 

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1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

I don't really care about the rest, but the more they charge for Marketplace listings, the better, especially if it's retroactive. Love to see all that old junk swept to oblivion, and make it prohibitively expensive to make individual listings for every trivial tweak of an item. 

As it stands, I'd shed no tears if Marketplace were to simply cease to exist, it's such an unnavigable trash heap now. If this rescues it, cool. If instead Marketplace closes down completely, that'd be fine, too. Maybe they'd replace it with something usable. Or not. Either way it's better without the embarrassment that's there now.

While I agree that MP could use quite a few upgrades and changes and not perfect by any means... the alternative just doesn't exist, because the in-world search (be it web based or legacy or whatever it's called) for actual items doesn't really work. On MP if you search for something like "maitreya jeans black" you get at least somewhat relevant results, which you can sort by most relevant, best selling or newest, as well as filter gachas by selecting copy perms checkmark and filter by price. With pictures and unless creator was lazy with demos to get right away. And in-world via search you get what... a link to just go and check the "unknown store number 12345" just to see what they even sell, original stuff, full perm recolors or it's just outdated system layers and it was a keyword spam (still exists on mp, but you see the picture and close the tab, way faster than finding it in-world)?

I still buy in-world, but majority of those are: from stores I already know and don't mind visiting, most of which I'd never discover if it wasn't MP and/or events they were at, events themselves or if I liked something I see in-world after finding it on the MP first. And nearly all demos I get are exactly same way, if some store sells stuff on MP and it says "demo in-world", I don't even bother, unless it's something exceptional, which is once in a year thing.

Might be not an issue if you only buy a few things every month, but for frequent shoppers MP is irreplaceable until/unless LL makes "MP 2.0". I already spend way too much time on checking rezzable stuff before I buy it (or not) in world to spend 5x as much to hunt clothing demos, too.

 

Edit:

As for the other news.

Happy to see last names are coming back. While my current main account's name is not as awful as the forum one, I'll still change it. To the same display name I have now plus something better than "resident", I got quite tired of it in 7 years. Hopefully won't be too pricy, although I don't expect to change it again later, unless there will be some absolutely perfect last name available down the line.

Meh for fee increases. I get it, too, it's needed. Will be interesting to see if more merchants will start listing only demos on MP or increase MP prices by 5%.

Don't really care about events of LL homes, so no comments about that.

Edited by steeljane42
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6 minutes ago, Coby Foden said:

After the last name feature has been made available things go like this:

• At new account creation process there is only single names option available - no last name choice.
• Basic accounts (new and old) cannot change the account name ever.
• Any account (new and old) which is premium account can change the account name. There is a fee for the name change.
 

 

20 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Well that sucks. And it's going to piss a lot of basics off and won't encourage them to sign up for premium.

 

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22 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Well that sucks. And it's going to piss a lot of basics off and won't encourage them to sign up for premium.

We'll have to see the price to see how much it pisses off basics. The way I see it - 12$ extra for a month of premium which is already included in the price for those. If name change itself is another 15-20$, then I'd say it will be fine. 27-32$ total and you get ~4.5$ back in L$. A bit over a price of popular bento heads. However if LL will charge a "premium price" for this, something like 50$ and basics would also need to add 12$ for premium on top of that... then yeah. Although if it'll be as expensive it'll piss off a lot of premium users too.

Still don't see the point of making it premium only, though. They could simply make it cost X for basics and Y for premiums, selling it like "unique premium discounts!". But I suppose it's their way to see if some basics will want to stay premium after that month, even if 1-3% does it's still a win for LL.

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59 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

What's the major problem? You aren't saying what it is, and proving that it is major.

You can search for things and buy them easily on the MP.

You can sell things on the MP which can be hard if you aren't big and important and have a big ad budget.

Oh dear lord, you actually described the major problem in your own post.

I give up on trying to help you. But..for anyone else that doesn't understand the problem, while I HIGHLY recommend reading the merchant's forum...I'll summarize-but it's gonna be long. I use no no list/words because, well, that's all we really know them as, and all we've known them as for years, and I don't know what the hell else to call them lol. 

On the MP there are arbitrary lists of no no words. These words can cause things like items not being able to be listed as G or M, and require adult. These lists can also cause things to be removed after listing them (note that they do not prevent the listing from being created in 99% of cases, this is an after effect down the road, often times years after the item has been listed, but not always). We all understand no no words are important, necessary and can play an important role. They can be used to maintain regulatory compliance, TOS compliance, and maturity compliance. None of that is part of the problem.  The problem...is the lists, how they are created, how they are employed and how LL ...well, does anything with them. LL likes to randomly add words to the lists, sometimes because they need to be there, sometimes because they seem to follow existing copyright and trademark laws, and sometimes...who the hell knows. Since MP's inception, these lists have been a problem, which has only grown, never gotten better, and has actually grown exponentially over the last year. One could surmise only recent (in the last year) changes made have had the greatest impact, merely by reading the forums, but it's actually a many years' long problem. 

One of the issues with this problem is how (or rather NOT) LL informs merchants of item removal, which used to be an indicator on the merchant homepage-and still sometimes is-but mostly, doesn't actually work. That notification problem is actually part of another long existing problem, although way less problematic than the item/section/store removal. The information offered to merchants, when any is offered at all, is vague and doesn't actually represent much of anything at all. Merchants have no idea what no no words they used in 95% of the cases (minus blatant infringements), so they go through trial and error to fix. Not a MASSIVE issue, but annoying as all get out. Items have been removed for using all sorts of words, names, numbers, innocuous things that mean nothing bad in any language, are not trademarked, are not copyright, are not....anything illegal, bad or against TOS. In fact, most of the words we DO know of, follow that pattern.  The problem grows increasingly annoying when the lists get changed, and they do, with great frequency (it seems), or at least they are "enforced"(and I use that term very loosely)whenever it tickles LL's pickle, versus a constant. Recently-again in the last year although ongoing since day one-these removals have gotten dramatic. Not only are items being removed, but whole sections of stores, whole damn stores, are being removed...all because someone is playing with the lists (we know this is why, because we were told this is why, hence the "oops my bad" comment) and arbitrarily adding ***** to it that doesn't belong there.

The claim, from LL, is typically "the item was removed to be compliant with trademark and copyright laws"-which is the biggest load of bullspit in this whole thing, when some of the words they claimed are NOT copyrighted or trademarked, at all, by any company, anywhere in the world. It was a blatant lie, not even a misunderstanding, or misstep, or miss...anything, just a flat effing lie. 

This issue goes much deeper, this isn't even the tip (and yes, I brought protection), but I'm pretty sure I'm going to piss people off if I talk about it any more, and I really don't want to do that. It's not me just pissing in LL's face, being a *****, whining, complaining about minor issues, or anything like that. I have given LL so many props for all kinds of things over the years-because they are well deserved.  But this problem is getting very, very, very bad. So to throw "oh by the by, we're increasing fees and giving you a couple of the things you've been asking for, for years, which require a copy paste of existing code and no other work on our part" in regards to the MP is a huge slap in the face after recent discussions over there. It is NOT the fee amount, that does not bother me (it might others) I've been expecting fees to change for years. The listing enhancement fees going down will affect damn near no one, because most people don't use them. But for those who do...wonderful for them that fees are going down-I'm not knocking it. I am and will knock the blatant disrespect for an entire chunk of LL's income, regardless of how big or small some people might believe it is....because it's asinine not to want better. 

If you want to read more...go to the merchant forums, look at recent threads about the delisting of items, do a search on the countless threads about no no words lists and other  "not allowed words" threads (really, there are tons over the years). It might at least shed some light on why it's pissing people off here, but even more so, inworld. It's a very big issue, it needs addressed before any other changes to MP take place. I'm not knocking all of the MP changes...I just want the biggest issues which affect not just merchants but also LL addressed AND fixed..I don't think that's asking too much. 

 

ETA: To put this in perspective...one of the recent issues which caused items, sections, and entire stores to be removed.....an employee added the word leg to the list(s). Yes, the word leg. 

Edited by Tari Landar
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58 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

So that means the LL post from today which says name changes will be available only for premium accounts (as I understood it) is correct or does it mean that last names for new accounts will be only for premium accounts? In other words, only new premium accounts will get last names and basic accounts will be stuck with Resident?

Sorry, I'm finding the whole thing a bit confusing.

Me too, to me Patch didn't really clear the confusion or we're not reading it right.

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So, we will have an extra-expensive new Premium to get last names, with a link on the Home page saying 'Get your free Linden name change!'' So you sign up to Super-Premium to get a name change, then when you go to the page, you can't get one. Oh, wow, turns out they only have the system set up for 50 name changes, and 5000 people want them, which they never ever anticipated, so you either quit your job and spent 20 hours a day clicking 'New Name Page!' (until they block more than 10 tries a day), then just have to wait months or years while LL cranks out 10 new name spots a weeks. At least, that is how Bellissaria worked out me, and I don't expect much more from LL wrt name changes.

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1 hour ago, Coby Foden said:

...They might have a false idea that they can easily change their account name later. And later they notice that they can't. One other reason for the thousands and thousands of bad account names is that that at account creation window there is no warning that the account name will be visible for everybody.

:ph34r: "Hmm... it seems that all good names have been taken. I'll just type some random letters now and change the name later to better one..."

Just such a warning used to be there on the signup page, but it has vanished.  Probably because nobody paid any attention to it. :(

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30 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

We'll have to see the price to see how much it pisses off basics. The way I see it - 12$ extra for a month of premium which is already included in the price for those. If name change itself is another 15-20$, then I'd say it will be fine. 27-32$ total and you get ~4.5$ back in L$. A bit over a price of popular bento heads. However if LL will charge a "premium price" for this, something like 50$ and basics would also need to add 12$ for premium on top of that... then yeah. Although if it'll be as expensive it'll piss off a lot of premium users too.

Still don't see the point of making it premium only, though. They could simply make it cost X for basics and Y for premiums, selling it like "unique premium discounts!". But I suppose it's their way to see if some basics will want to stay premium after that month, even if 1-3% does it's still a win for LL.

I am basic and it's already pissing me off. I can't afford premium, even less so when they jacked up the price of premium to $99US. Ever since they started the Sansar project they've gotten money hungry and don't really care how many current customers fall through the cracks. They'll just keep finding things to tack a price tag on until only the well off can afford to be in SL. And with the gap between middle and upper class widening at a rapid pace, they'll put themselves out of business much sooner. 

I don't expect basics to have all the perks premiums do but it sure does get old being left out in the cold. Sometimes it feels like they are actually trying to do away with basics completely. If that is the case, not only are they doing us a disservice, they're shooting themselves in the foot financially. Which is what they are supposed to be trying to increase, not reduce.

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