Last names nearly here - and more. Yay!

[Alyona Su]

17 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

It's also possible that the 'change back' part simply gives you a list of your previous names to pick from, thus resulting in the same case as the original.

I imagine it being like group titles list when you have access to multiple roles, except it would be on your web dashboard rather than in any viewer widget.

[Prokofy Neva]

Having listened to this tape of Oz Linden, I now see that they may not get to this, it's quite hard, the way they have conceived of this.

So the task of those who want this is to get them to re-conceive it, not do the hard technical task they have set themselves -- which sounds like the labours of Sisyphus and will never be done.

Oz often talks very clearly and thoughtfully, which is a blessing, compared to most techs, but looking off to the far distance, choosing his words, as if he is mindful that he can't leak a proprietary secret, or perhaps a known flaw that could be exploited. That's got to be hard. Even so, you can glean this much: they can't do this easily because they saved the last name stuff not just with avatar keys, which are unique for each avatar and would seem to be the obvious thing to do, but in other ways, which I can only imagine. Tables of plain text? Really? They do that? Is that not ill-advised? Why did they do that? I imagine this question can't be answered for the reasons I just implied, but still...

I do have to point out that when it came to changing the names of Lindens who departed the Lab to their RL names, they didn't suffer from any problems. They did it virtually overnight. So Robin Linden and all her inventory and works, all her textures or objects she made or notecards or even her calling card converted from Robin Linden to Robin Harper. Or Corey Linden converted to Corey whatever his last name was, I forget. And so on. There are dozens of Lindens, although not the founder Philip Linden himself, who is no longer a Linden, but not Philip Rosedale, but Philip Linden (perhaps because there were too many things he made? Like Ben Linden, who made so many of the plants and trees?). I don't think if his disappearance from Lindenhood is the reason why his monolith in Linden Village disappeared (the one that said "My God, It's full of stars" like on 2001). I think that was just a return by accident. I think he has all his stuff. 

But so basically, when they want to, they can do this. Custom jobs for individual Lindens may take time due to those issues they flagged, but not very much time. The issue then is to multiply this by 3 million or however many actual avatars there are, or by only 50,000, by the actual number of name requests they get.

Which brings me to the question of why they don't just set this aside as "nice to have" and put in last names again for those who want to make NEW avatars. Yes, plenty will do that, just like they make alts for Bellisseria houses. Alts are the soul of SL and it is NOT a problem for people to go make new accounts. This perception that it "isn't fair" to all those with the name "resident" that they can't change their name -- sure they can, with a new account, which they will be happy to make, especially if discounted for a time.

Trust me, last names will be such a neat thing and so in demand that people will make new accounts. To be hobbling this over the idea of justice to "residents" who won't want to leave their old accounts is silly. They don't have to. They can keep them as mules. Gatchas transfer. Lots of stuff transfers. If it doesn't, that's sad, but then a last name is a cool thing.

Once again, I see the Linden difficult is ideological, not technical. They have boxed themselves in with an idea of "fairness" or an idea of putative customer demand that isn't there. People will be happy to have fresh, new accounts with last names. They will have several accounts -- you know, as they already do! Let's get over this hump, please.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 11/23/2019 at 2:04 PM, Alyona Su said:

My understanding, based on Linden comments from so many different sources by now that I don't remember which... it is that even if I change my name from Alyona Su to something else totally different like "Felda Hortense" - you can still find me, pull my profile, see me on your spyware activity-panels by Alyona Su. And that this aspect is the actual hard part of the work on getting this implemented, because Spaghetti Code (As @Tateru Nino coined it way back when on her blog). LOL

Which is why they need to stop doing this, or take their time doing it if they like suffering, and just let people make NEW ACCOUNTS with the old facility to put first and last names from a list. The end. No code involved, they had that code already.

[Chic Aeon]

4 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Which is why they need to stop doing this, or take their time doing it if they like suffering, and just let people make NEW ACCOUNTS with the old facility to put first and last names from a list. The end. No code involved, they had that code already.

This will not happen. There is no money in it for The Lab as apposed to $52 each name change if you are not already premium or $40 if you already are. 

FOLLOW THE MONEY!

 

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

1 minute ago, Chic Aeon said:

This will not happen. There is no money in it for The Lab as apposed to $52 each name change if you are not already premium or $40 if you already are. 

FOLLOW THE MONEY!

 

Precisely. Who knows what's next? 25L per TP?

[Lulabells Starlight]

On 11/21/2019 at 10:43 AM, Garnet Psaltery said:

Official blog - 

The highlight for me is that there's a contest to choose last names, and you can win one.   

I wish we would not be made to have last names.  I remember from a long time ago when we had to pick a last name

and I did not like it then.  Hate to be so negative, but I hope we are not made to take on a last name we do not want.

 

[ArgontheDevil Ormega]

1 hour ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Precisely. Who knows what's next? 25L per TP?

Don't give them any ideas.

[Garnet Psaltery]

35 minutes ago, LulabellsAmour said:

I wish we would not be made to have last names.  I remember from a long time ago when we had to pick a last name

and I did not like it then.  Hate to be so negative, but I hope we are not made to take on a last name we do not want.

 

No-one will be forced to change their name.  It's an optional, paid-for extra.

[Lulabells Starlight]

44 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

No-one will be forced to change their name.  It's an optional, paid-for extra.

Oh that makes me feel much better.  Right now what I consider to be my last name is Amour, same as the man I am partnered with in SL.  My first name is Lulabells

ty so very much

[Gregorian Chant]

 

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Which is why they need to stop doing this, or take their time doing it if they like suffering, and just let people make NEW ACCOUNTS with the old facility to put first and last names from a list. The end. No code involved, they had that code already.

There are still too many stories of people having difficulty coming up with usernames that aren't already taken. Surnames from a list would alleviate this frustration. Right now what if someone wants to be plain old Frank? That poor bastard is 10 years too late, for there can only be one Frank Resident.  All others would have to come up with some rough alternative, like frank963257somesuch just to get in the door. Display names simply does not cut it. We can still see your username. 

From what I understand about the eventual return of surnames, it makes me sad that new accounts won't get to have them the same way like oldbies do.  I was hoping to see a new generation of double namers (and maybe, hopefully necro this thread).  But alas.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

32 minutes ago, Gregorian Chant said:

 

There are still too many stories of people having difficulty coming up with usernames that aren't already taken. Surnames from a list would alleviate this frustration. Right now what if someone wants to be plain old Frank? That poor bastard is 10 years too late, for there can only be one Frank Resident.  All others would have to come up with some rough alternative, like frank963257somesuch just to get in the door. Display names simply does not cut it. We can still see your username. 

From what I understand about the eventual return of surnames, it makes me sad that new accounts won't get to have them the same way like oldbies do.  I was hoping to see a new generation of double namers (and maybe, hopefully necro this thread).  But alas.

 

Well, there are millions of "Jacks" who didn't get @jack on Twitter, either, but that's life in the big city. There is no need to be sad. Newbies can get a new account with new last names. Many people have more than one account. They are FREE unless you want land, cash, and gifts from the Lab. No reason not to make at this part possible and have done with it.

[Chic Aeon]

33 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Well, there are millions of "Jacks" who didn't get @jack on Twitter, either, but that's life in the big city. There is no need to be sad. Newbies can get a new account with new last names. Many people have more than one account. They are FREE unless you want land, cash, and gifts from the Lab. No reason not to make at this part possible and have done with it.

Just to be clear, new residents will have the same  (somebody) resident designation until they decide they want to pay for a last name. Then it is $40 US plus at least one month of premium dues.    See the official blog post on this for confirmation :D.  

[LittleMe Jewell]

4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Having listened to this tape of Oz Linden, I now see that they may not get to this, it's quite hard, the way they have conceived of this.

That was last June.  They have made lots of progress and are actually close to releasing the Name Change functionality.

[Gregorian Chant]

35 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Well, there are millions of "Jacks" who didn't get @jack on Twitter, either, but that's life in the big city. There is no need to be sad. Newbies can get a new account with new last names. Many people have more than one account. They are FREE unless you want land, cash, and gifts from the Lab. No reason not to make at this part possible and have done with it.

Just to be clear, new residents will have the same  (somebody) resident designation until they decide they want to pay for a last name. Then it is $40 US plus at least one month of premium dues.    See the official blog post on this for confirmation :D.  

Yes!  I have no problems with this paid option available for everybody regardless of age.  I think it's one of those nice things to have.

The point I was trying to get at is that LL should have never done away with surnames in the first place.  I dunno, it strikes me as a little unfair to make new avatars pay for a last name from a set list (if they so choose) when us oldbies didn't have to pay for ours. I guess we'll see how this pans out.

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

 Newbies can get a new account with new last names.

no they can not, it's often explained by Oz ( i think) , unless they changed their mind about it,  all new accounts will keep starting as "resident" you only get the ability to buy a new name when you are premium, no matter new, resident, or legacy accounts.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Alwin Alcott

[Prokofy Neva]

52 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

no they can not, it's often explained by Oz ( i think) , unless they changed their mind about it,  all new accounts will keep starting as "resident" you only get the ability to buy a new name when you are premium, no matter new, resident, or legacy accounts.

OK, he does say that, but having this ability restored via premium that previously existed --  that's still a better solution than trying to give everyone a chance to CHANGE their name. THAT is what Oz is hung up on. Again, I want to point out there is an IDEOLOGICAL problem here cloaked by a technical problem.

We don't know how many people feel they "must" change their name as opposed to just getting a new account. People get new accounts ALL THE TIME. They make alts to get Bellisseria houses. So they can make an alt to get the last name. End of story.

If they don't like "resident", truly they can start a new account with the names. It will speed things up and requite the clamouring masses. For $11.95 a month, you can have that last name. 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Prokofy Neva

[Prokofy Neva]

2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

That was last June.  They have made lots of progress and are actually close to releasing the Name Change functionality.

on the other hand, in six months they may NOT have made progress and the schedule may have slipped again and therefore they should stop the hard thing -- changing -- and just offer the restored thing - - making a new premium account with the last names.

[Prokofy Neva]

2 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Just to be clear, new residents will have the same  (somebody) resident designation until they decide they want to pay for a last name. Then it is $40 US plus at least one month of premium dues.    See the official blog post on this for confirmation :D.  

That's fine. I don't know why it is so hard to get across this simple point without all this correcting and haranguing.

IT DOESN"T MATTER IF YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT AS A PREMIUM. WHAT MATTERS IS THAT THEY COULD MAKE AVAILABLE RIGHT AWAY THE ABILITY TO HAVE LAST NAMES *if* THEY GIVE UP THEIR OBSESSION WITH HAVING THOSE WITH THE LAST NAME 'RESIDENT' GIVEN THE ABILITY OF  *CHANGING* THEM.

THE CHANGING OF THEM CAN HAPPEN BY MAKING A NEW ACCOUNT FOR $40, HELLO!

Yes, you will have an old account with all your dresses that you can't transfer and your old poorbie name of "resident". So what? You wanted last names. You can now get them for $40 and stop fussing and have several accounts. Turn the other account to a free one. The end. 

 

[Elena Blossom]

I read the blog entry /announcement from last November, and I have to admit I will be one of the avis with a last name change. I love Elena, she has really grown on me, despite all the different accounts I've had throughout the years. But the last name is something I'd love getting rid of me (it sounded totally different to me when I created her)

I thought at first it would be for just the "Resident" ones, but Patch mentioned it would be for everybody.

So, I will happily pay the fee and take a new one. But after 11 years, I really don't mind waiting a few more months.

[Alwin Alcott]

26 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

. For $11.95 a month, you can have that last name. 

you don't get it i think.. it is NOT included in premium, but being premium is required to purchase the ADDITIONAL name choice
Creating a premium alt for that is not comparable to create a premium alt for a Belli home.

[Alwin Alcott]

35 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I don't know why it is so hard to get across this simple point without all this correcting and haranguing.

reason?... how about you had it wrong about the whole thing?

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:

reason?... how about you had it wrong about the whole thing?

As I understand the last page or so of this thread, Prokofy is talking about a different, hypothetical solution that would give all new users two names, just like it used to be. The confusion arises because that hypothetical world gets discussed without repeating in every sentence that it's a hypothetical.

I guess that hypothetical is more than purely theoretical, though: Prokofy is proposing this approach as a replacement for the ongoing work on name changes. That may indeed have been the better approach at one time, but I suspect Lil is right about the rollout being near. My hunch is that all the heavy lifting is done with only some final marketing decisions and webpage updates remaining.

[Alwin Alcott]

19 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

hypothetical

yes, but we'r long past the hpothetical point, the road how it will be is paved and explained already.
 

[wesleytron]

15 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Which brings me to the question of why they don't just set this aside as "nice to have" and put in last names again for those who want to make NEW avatars. Yes, plenty will do that, just like they make alts for Bellisseria houses. Alts are the soul of SL and it is NOT a problem for people to go make new accounts.

Because a NEW avatar doesn't have an inventory of stuff built up over the many years spent in SL. A NEW avatar doesn't have its friends list. Wanting a last name and/or name change is not comparable to getting or trying out a premium home for a short while on an alt. Premium homes are easily expendable and temporary, as well as being sharable - I can get a new home on an alt, but my 'main' can use it too. The right name is something more important to some people - although they may not have realised that at the time they signed up. They didn't know they'd still be here so many years later and now want something better for their existing account.

9 hours ago, Gregorian Chant said:

I dunno, it strikes me as a little unfair to make new avatars pay for a last name from a set list (if they so choose) when us oldbies didn't have to pay for ours.

There are things that are already 'not fair' in regards to what oldbies and newbies have. Oldbies still get a higher stipend for instance.

But it's not really for newbies (unless you consider everybody who joined since you a newbie!) - it's an optional service for existing residents who wish they could have a last name since they found out that was a thing - or just for anybody who wants to change the stupid name they signed up with all those moons ago!

So what is MORE 'unfair' is that all those people who signed up since last names were no longer a thing would now have to abandon their accounts and their inventory and sign up just for the privilege of getting a last name. And it is THOSE people who WANT last names in the first place - oldbies have them already. And genuine newbies don't care - at least until they have spent some time in world.

I also think that any idea that newbies want last names and would pay the extra on top of the price of Premium at the point of sign-up is a falsehood - they know nothing about the concept of last names or the SL history, don't care and are not going to pay extra for it at the point of signup - because why at that point would or should they care?

Edited January 6, 2020 by wesleytron
Fixing a couple of typos

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, wesleytron said:

I also think that nny idea that newbies want last names and would pay the extra on top of the price of Premium at the point of sign-up is a falsehood - they know nothing about the concept of last names or the SL history, don't care and are not going to pay extra for it at the point of signup - because why at that point would or should they care?

IMO, this is 100% spot on.  Maybe an existing account holder creating a new alt that they specifically want to have a last name for some reason.  However, a totally new person just isn't going to hand over $50+ at signup.