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Sorciaa

Security orb recomendation

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After about a year of owning land I am thinking of dropping my ban lines and going with other options. what do y'all recommend? Id like something easy to use and add people to but something that will keep the riff raff out. Just having the ban lines  has worked so far  but id like a change of pace.

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Personally, I don't use any security at all, but I guess my parcels must all be in "the good part of town" because I only very rarely encounter any troublemakers and then can just eject and add them to the ban list for a while. But I know there are rougher neighborhoods, so...

The Bellisseria continent covenant about security scripts is almost good enough -- you just have to find a publically available device that satisfies those specs because the actual Bellisseria scripts only work on those parcels. The one thing about them that's not quite good enough, though, is that they do not automatically shut themselves down when none of the pre-authorized owners are in the region (or not even in-world) -- for me, that's crucial because it's just daft to be protecting my pixels when I'm not even around, and I'd much rather any visitors felt welcome to use my stuff in my absence. But YMMV.

One I'd try, just based on the scripter's reputation, is free and full perm on Marketplace (but I have no other information about it -- never used it myself -- it's just the first one I'd try, so this isn't a real recommendation).

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I like my privacy. I also like being able to have my friend come over and be able to rez items if its needed. I know I can just have them join a group but id rather not have to have them use a group slot to do that either.

  Id love a orb or something short of the ban line that would allow that and keep potential  troublemakers out.

  I guess I am looking for something that mimics banlines without the banlines and I just dont know enough about them to know what will do that or not.

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Look for something that uses get avatar list over a sensor, if you want to be sure it'll respect property lines. 

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39 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

Look for something that uses get avatar list over a sensor, if you want to be sure it'll respect property lines. 

that is another worry of mine, i dont want it to go past my boundaries and mess other peoples plots.

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6 minutes ago, Sorciaa said:

that is another worry of mine, i dont want it to go past my boundaries and mess other peoples plots.

The only real risk is that it might warn somebody outside your parcel, but a script can't actually eject or teleport home anybody except on the owner's land.* In theory, a sensor-based script wouldn't necessarily be leaking warnings outside your parcel because the script can always call the llOverMyLand() function to make sure it's only messaging within the parcel, but without looking at the source code you can't really be sure what it's doing. In any case, though, it's also more efficient to not use a sensor and instead use the relatively more recent llGetAgentList() as @Gadget Portal rightly suggests.

Speaking of relatively recent LSL functions, llReturnObjectsByOwner() now makes it possible for a script to remove from a parcel items owned by anybody not on a list, so that would satisfy the desire to "have my friend come over and be able to rez items" without using a group slot. I personally prefer using the built-in parcel auto-return function, but I guess if there's already a security script running on the parcel it wouldn't be all that much more work to occasionally check llGetParcelPrimOwners() for unauthorized rezzers.

Sorry that as a scripter myself I can only answer these things hypothetically, having no idea what scripts are actually on the market.

___________
*For completeness: In the very olden days, some "security" scripts used physical push to get intruders off the parcel, and that could mistakenly apply outside the parcel. I can't imagine any still do that, though.

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I have used the thomas conover orb for a number of years now.  It is easy to set up and use.  I've yet to hear a complaint about it crossing property lines.  As far as having friends rez, simply set the land to allow everyone to rez.  If you are already blocking unwanted visitors you should not have many problems with you place being littered and if you should they are easily returned.

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A solid wall or hedge around your property marks out the boundaries and indicates to a traveler the space you want to keep private much more visibly than an orb. It doesn't have to be so high as to obscure yours or your neighbour's view and can be made to look natural. If solid it will also be a barrier to stray vehicles.

Back it up with a security orb with friend's list access so they can eject and you are set. I have no recommendations on specific orbs, it has been a long time since I used one and my experience with them too limited to make any useful suggestions.

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On 11/20/2019 at 1:08 AM, Sorciaa said:

After about a year of owning land I am thinking of dropping my ban lines and going with other options. what do y'all recommend? Id like something easy to use and add people to but something that will keep the riff raff out. Just having the ban lines  has worked so far  but id like a change of pace.

I only allow orbs up in the sky because they are so annoying. The viewer-based eject and ban really should be sufficient, especially in combination with unchecking "avatars can see me" so you are invisible.

I favour LazyGuy because it is very easy to configure and works on group land after deeding. It also defaults to a low range of meters in case the user didn't set the range. My only beef with them is they force you to keep buying single copies for the deedable version insteady of making a higher-priced copyable version that can still be deeded and work. That *is* possible. 

I don't care for Thomas Connover because something about it seems to make tenants unable to set it properly. It evidently defaults to 96 or possibly even 4096 because people in the sky end up banning everyone from the lot below, even the owner. 

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On 11/20/2019 at 4:33 PM, Qie Niangao said:

The only real risk is that it might warn somebody outside your parcel, but a script can't actually eject or teleport home anybody except on the owner's land.* In theory, a sensor-based script wouldn't necessarily be leaking warnings outside your parcel because the script can always call the llOverMyLand() function to make sure it's only messaging within the parcel, but without looking at the source code you can't really be sure what it's doing. In any case, though, it's also more efficient to not use a sensor and instead use the relatively more recent llGetAgentList() as @Gadget Portal rightly suggests.

Speaking of relatively recent LSL functions, llReturnObjectsByOwner() now makes it possible for a script to remove from a parcel items owned by anybody not on a list, so that would satisfy the desire to "have my friend come over and be able to rez items" without using a group slot. I personally prefer using the built-in parcel auto-return function, but I guess if there's already a security script running on the parcel it wouldn't be all that much more work to occasionally check llGetParcelPrimOwners() for unauthorized rezzers.

Sorry that as a scripter myself I can only answer these things hypothetically, having no idea what scripts are actually on the market.

___________
*For completeness: In the very olden days, some "security" scripts used physical push to get intruders off the parcel, and that could mistakenly apply outside the parcel. I can't imagine any still do that, though.

I have to laugh that this has been put in, given the history of what I consider a bug, but Soft Linden considers a feature.

You can set up group permissions so that an ordinary member, or a member with more permissions (like visitor versus resident) can return non-group-set items.

You don't want tenants to return group-set items because then they can return the rental box and other tenants' builds they don't like even within the rules.

Yes, you can devote little 16m parcels to a rental box in another group like Desmond does, but some of us need every prim on the Mainland and don't have that luxury.

You can then have only officers of the group return group-set items, i.e. a tenant whose rent has lapsed.

But if any item is put in share, anybody who joins the open group can then return that item, regardless of whether that group has assigned you the role to be able to return group-set items.

"Share" overrides group rules which it shouldn't unless you believe in forced sharing under communism.

Especially when the Library items used to all come in "share" (now they don't, but old versions still have that default). Some people don't understand "set" versus "group" and set themselves up for griefing and theft by their "share".

In reality, few people who aren't in a circa-2003 furry collective use "share". I could be wrong about that. But "share" is almost always used by mistake, not design. If you want to "share," you have another thing you can do, which is give perms to a trusted friend. 

In any event, regardless of your beliefs about "share," it shouldn't override a group-set role and group-set power.

 

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If you put up an orb I highly recommend making sure you're up to the task of measuring by the numbers and setting it's zone of control to be 100% INSIDE of some solid walled object.

A person should NEVER encounter your orbs unless they first do something that itself is an obvious violation of your personal space.

My method:

Rez my skybox somewhere above 4000m.

Rez a prim around the box - that is solid (as long as you set it to type prim, you can actually move around freely inside a solid prim and not get pushed out). Make the outside texture of this prim visibly solid.

Make that prim to the dimensions of my parcel.

Put a security orb in the exact center of the prim... set it's scan radius to about 0.5m LESS than the prim.

So if I rez a solid prim at coords 128,128,4000 that is 64m x 64m x 64m... I set the orb in the middle of that with a scan radius of 31.5m, or if it's one that can do square coverage like HIPPO, I set it to something like: <-31.5,-31.5,-31.5>,<+31.5,+31.5,+31.5,>.

- nobody ever gets zapped unless they first teleport inside of the cube... I also often set a landing point on the parcel that is at ground, and force all teleports there... so you have to make a solid effort to get in...

 

Don't just put an orb an ground and sloppily scan out to max range with no obstruction...

- You don't want to ever zap people who were innocently passing by... you only want to zap the jerks...

 

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The best security orb is “none.” Same as the best ban line is “none.”

You can always right click and eject/ban the rare trouble maker that comes along.

Your friends can rez because you can adjust autoreturn. 

Second life is not exactly densely populated where you are likely to have lots of visitors. If you have problems, see above about ejecting and banning.

Of course, for maximum privacy you need to be on an estate, not the mainland.

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24 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

The best security orb is “none.” Same as the best ban line is “none.”

You can always right click and eject/ban the rare trouble maker that comes along.

I actually disagree with that.

Why should I have to take time out of what I am doing to deal with someone trying to interrupt me?

My security orbs are st to 0-second no warning TP home because if you get through my wall to encounter them... I want you gone before I myself am even aware you were ever there.

Why should the burden be on me, at that point, to stop whatever I am doing, stop being with anyone I might be with, and chase you down to get rid of you.

Nope.

zap - gone

I believe in giving people plenty of obvious warning BEFORE they get in... but once they are in... no mercy. If I could force log them out, I would. I want them to have to deal with the hassle of recovering from their actions - not me.

 

As I said above... start with the premise of only putting the orb behind a solid visible object one cannot just teleport into or walk into... Then have no mercy for the people that insist anyway.

 

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12 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

As I said above... start with the premise of only putting the orb behind a solid visible object one cannot just teleport into or walk into...

For this to be safe, though, the secured perimeter must be separated from the region border by... well, at least 10m for walking or flying avatars, much more for vehicle-borne avatars. In my testing, how thick the "wall" itself is, or even how many layers of "wall" doesn't seem to reliably affect the risk of getting trapped inside the walls (which, in this case, would be the security script kill zone). Although affected by sim lag, it doesn't seem to be a simple function of sim lag; instead it's probably more to do with messaging delay between the sims. Or phase of the moon, who knows? Anyway, the closer to the sim border, the more likely an avatar will pass through a wall without trying.

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That's a reason to make the barrier not just solid, but also visible.

I have and see no logic in having, any sympathy for people that intentionally intrude upon others. Make it clear to them where a boundary is... and if they insist beyond that point... what happens is on them.

Edited by Pussycat Catnap

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I am on an estate so i am less worried about someone walking by, or flying over. more about the random perv who sees someone with a female sounding name and TPing in. Had that problem with the 1st place I rented. Could not afk on any furniture with animations. There was a security orb but it would not eject sooner then 30 secs. I moved pretty quickly after hearing that and had ban lines up ever sense.

 Id love something that mimicked ban lines without the lines themselves

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Yeah so...

You probably want exactly what I do.

A 0-second no warning TP them away orb inside your skybox.

I'm using this:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/hippoSECURE-land-and-home-security-system/106442

The version I use might be old, and allows 0-second no warning.

A lot of people think it's unfair to eject a perv until after they have had enough time to mess with you, destroy your mood, and/or grief you... so most brands no longer allow 0-second.

I am NOT SURE if Hippo's current version does or not...

 

There's a comment in a recent review of that product that Hippo has left SL... so mine only work because they require no connection to any server...

- Not sure, if you buy that product, if you will even get anything delivered to you...

I'll see if I can find an equivalent competitor...

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap

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I've used CasperSafe for years.  It allows you to choose to protect a region, a parcel itself, a range or a custom box shape, e.g. protecting just your home.  Its minimum eject time is 20 seconds, which is plenty of time for someone to realise their mistake and move on.  It operates from a menu inworld and links to a website that gives you further options and gives you details of visitors (if you set it up that way).  There is a lot to it, though, so it might be overkill for you.

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