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Bree Giffen

Making SL more welcoming to males

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oiii :3 what have i started. lol the point of my initial comment is that we gotta be more open as a community, so then maybe men and women alike will come our way and we'll be spending awesome quality time with new quality peeeeps is all i'm saying. so i was open. that's all xo 

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Beth is a very strong lady that I admire (your blog made my erp better btw i miss your postsss) and I loved how straightforward she was with me. :3 

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@Luna Bliss - I am submissive. I choose who I submit to, though, and ultimately hold all the power. I have the safe word that stops anything and everything, and it's my choice when and if I use it. 

@Amina Sopwith - I see what you mean now, and yes, backing away.

@ErukaVonD - I'm glad you enjoyed my blog, thank you!

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7 hours ago, ErukaVonD said:

I'm straight and extremely devoted to my guy in both worlds. Yet I answer any and each IM warmly and respectfully and end it kindly too, even the dumb ones. We need to feel for one another if we are to survive with dignity. Audrey said that, not me 😛

Aye.  Thank you for making SL more welcoming to men.  My experience is that there are many such as you in SL. To find happiness in SL, one need only get out and explore a little bit. 

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2 hours ago, Erwin Solo said:

Aye.  Thank you for making SL more welcoming to men.  My experience is that there are many such as you in SL. To find happiness in SL, one need only get out and explore a little bit. 

lol. accidentally found happiness. wasn't even looking for it. he just fell on my head (quite literally)

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On 11/29/2019 at 6:54 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

Maybe the task should be to make SL more welcome for everybody, and then males, females, whatever, will take care of itself. 

The forums wouldn't be putting the best foot forward.

 

And indeed, the topic of *this discussion* is indeed why women want to be subjugated and brutalized.

So if you think that's fine, and some sort of "culture" or "lifestyle," then your plan is to attract the most brutal and authoritarian men who retreat from real life where their wives and girlfriends want freedom and equality, to a world where they can have a harem, and subs, and capture roleplay.

I guess I don't see the Lindens, who are basically liberals and leftists, as doing that. I think if they were to deliberately advertise to the worst sort of men who want to brutalize women, before long, their peers in Silicon Valley and the tech press would go after them. 

Some Off topic:

Actually you remember me a little bit on some ex-residents of the ex-neighbor-country with an oppressive political system, which collapsed in the last century fortunately. These people supported much the idea to control people´s personal lives and to watch them all with a huge secret service agency. I don´t want to live in such an environment, where others are going to tell someone what to think, what to do, what to dream or what fantasies someone should have. For me you appear to me as someone who is trapped in the own ideology and seems to be shifted to someone, who wants to fight for freedom and equality with oppressive methods. Sorry, to tell you this so directly. Nothing personal. It´s just my impression about you when I read your postings. 

About the majority thing: Well, I don´t believe much in that. The history of my own country taught me very well, that the majority isn´t always right. About BDSM: In fact it´s not a crime where I live. But some seems to confuse it with crime because they didn´t get the point, that it is a consensual thing. By the way, also the other roleplay ideas are based on consensus. No one can force someone here to take a particular role. Well, some jerks think, they could, but they land usually quickly on a blocklist. Also get over the odd belief that all men has to be dominant and all women has to be submissive. If you plan to shame other for their lifestyle than keep in mind that you are also going to shame males who act on the submissive side and females who wishes to act on the flip side (on also all others, who are acting in between, as trans or gender-fluid or living their fantasies as furries whatever).

 

About the main topic:

Well, personally it´s hard to believe that women outnumbers men so much. I might have an wrong impression, but in the roleplay areas where I move around sometimes I don´t see really a shortage of men there. In addition I don´t feel like a guy, who is stranded on an isle full of females. Sometimes it appears to me more male-dominated. It bugs me only a little bit sometimes that I often read on other profiles "only females" for instance. As a guy who is an deeply rooted introvert it makes it a little bit more difficult to get engaged. But yeah, that´s just a personal thing and I send very rarely IM´s on my own to others. Often I read only other profiles and I wander only around lately just to see some different places without reaching out really for any possible connections. 

More men clothes wouldn´t attract me much, because I am a bit too lazy to invest for the 'right' body which I like and which is popular enough for creators to make some clothes for it. But sim crossing is a thing that could be improved much. But beside of that, I don´t have an idea what´s missing really. You can build, script, create own content, explore, roleplay whatever.

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7 hours ago, TSorrow said:

Some Off topic:

Actually you remember me a little bit on some ex-residents of the ex-neighbor-country with an oppressive political system, which collapsed in the last century fortunately. These people supported much the idea to control people´s personal lives and to watch them all with a huge secret service agency. I don´t want to live in such an environment, where others are going to tell someone what to think, what to do, what to dream or what fantasies someone should have. For me you appear to me as someone who is trapped in the own ideology and seems to be shifted to someone, who wants to fight for freedom and equality with oppressive methods. Sorry, to tell you this so directly. Nothing personal. It´s just my impression about you when I read your postings. 

About the majority thing: Well, I don´t believe much in that. The history of my own country taught me very well, that the majority isn´t always right. About BDSM: In fact it´s not a crime where I live. But some seems to confuse it with crime because they didn´t get the point, that it is a consensual thing. By the way, also the other roleplay ideas are based on consensus. No one can force someone here to take a particular role. Well, some jerks think, they could, but they land usually quickly on a blocklist. Also get over the odd belief that all men has to be dominant and all women has to be submissive. If you plan to shame other for their lifestyle than keep in mind that you are also going to shame males who act on the submissive side and females who wishes to act on the flip side (on also all others, who are acting in between, as trans or gender-fluid or living their fantasies as furries whatever).

 

About the main topic:

Well, personally it´s hard to believe that women outnumbers men so much. I might have an wrong impression, but in the roleplay areas where I move around sometimes I don´t see really a shortage of men there. In addition I don´t feel like a guy, who is stranded on an isle full of females. Sometimes it appears to me more male-dominated. It bugs me only a little bit sometimes that I often read on other profiles "only females" for instance. As a guy who is an deeply rooted introvert it makes it a little bit more difficult to get engaged. But yeah, that´s just a personal thing and I send very rarely IM´s on my own to others. Often I read only other profiles and I wander only around lately just to see some different places without reaching out really for any possible connections. 

More men clothes wouldn´t attract me much, because I am a bit too lazy to invest for the 'right' body which I like and which is popular enough for creators to make some clothes for it. But sim crossing is a thing that could be improved much. But beside of that, I don´t have an idea what´s missing really. You can build, script, create own content, explore, roleplay whatever.

A classic method of totalitarians and propagandists of various political persuasions is to try to "turn on their head" their opponents' values by claiming some obvious actual feature of their own system (like subjugation and brutalization of women) is actually not what it seems, and authoritarianism is actually a feature of their critic, or the enemy country or "ex-residents of ex-neighbour countries". Very typical. But it can't disguise the obvious features of this objectionable system. It's not anyone who has "told the BDSM practitioner what to do"; it's the BDSM practitioner who is telling women (and men for that matter) what to do. Backwards ideologies that borrow bits and pieces from oppressive societies over the ages or just make stuff up then claim it's their critics who are "trapped" or "unfree" blah blah.

It's such a shop-worn method that it self-discredits. So thanks for sharing lol.

This is a debate about *why men don't come into SL*, and so discussion of the tendency of men to dominate women is in order, and doesn't mean that if a discussion of the opposite, or men with men or women with men is not raised, that somehow the interlocutor has "failed" or is "hypocritical" or blah blah blah.

Most of the men including famous journalists or journalists from well-known publications who don't like SL or even ridicule it actually tell you why:

o they are uncomfortable because they can't tell if the women are really women when so many are actually men

o they are annoyed at the boorish behaviour of their fellow males when they are let loose in a virtual world

You don't have to look far to find these sorts of accounts so it's silly to keep pretending these reactions aren't factors.

I've also noticed there is a certain type of blogger or podcaster who hates SL because they aren't used to having their porn talk back.

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⬆️download.jpg.cc4e86d7030554f30c39a2180e16a629.jpg⬆️

Prok, stop trying to control women by telling women they're being controlled and not listening to them when they tell you otherwise. 

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7 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

blah blah

Prok, stop trying to control men by telling men they're being just kinky brutes and not listening to them when they tell you otherwise. 

😎

 

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12 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

A classic method of totalitarians and propagandists of various political persuasions is to try to "turn on their head" their opponents' values by claiming some obvious actual feature of their own system (like subjugation and brutalization of women) is actually not what it seems, and authoritarianism is actually a feature of their critic, or the enemy country or "ex-residents of ex-neighbour countries". Very typical. But it can't disguise the obvious features of this objectionable system. It's not anyone who has "told the BDSM practitioner what to do"; it's the BDSM practitioner who is telling women (and men for that matter) what to do. Backwards ideologies that borrow bits and pieces from oppressive societies over the ages or just make stuff up then claim it's their critics who are "trapped" or "unfree" blah blah.

Why are you equating those who wish to experiment with power and control within their relationships with some sort of "political persuasion" or an ideology?  It reminds me of those who believe gay people have an "agenda', like they're trying to take over society when in reality they are just naming themselves as a group because at least they have a fighting chance against the majority.

 When people don't understand something they often feel those who differ from themselves are trying to 'take them over'.  It's just a small group of people for god's sake, not some mass movement.  I understand there's a lot of it in SL, but there are reasons this is so -- it's a safe place to experiment.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Why are you equating those who wish to experiment with power and control within their relationships with some sort of "political persuasion" or an ideology?  It reminds me of those who believe gay people have an "agenda'

I have a "gay agenda". It involves being able to go out in public, holding hands with my partner, and not getting beaten up for it. It involves being able to get married, if we want to. To be parents, if we want to. To have a job in which we don't have to  dodge around questions about "your wife" for fear of getting sacked.

Straight people already have these things. And I am lucky, I live in a part of the world where I (usually) have them too. But there are many more gay people around the world who don't, yet.

My personal gay agenda also involves a copious amount of wine, but that's just me. My partner prefers gin & tonic.

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55 minutes ago, Matty Luminos said:

My personal gay agenda also involves a copious amount of wine, but that's just me. My partner prefers gin & tonic.

   I don't drink-- Wine. Gin & Tonic I do like, though.

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13 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

A classic method of totalitarians and propagandists of various political persuasions is to try to "turn on their head" their opponents' values by claiming some obvious actual feature of their own system (like subjugation and brutalization of women) ….

Well, maybe my English is too bad, but I wrote about my impression of you at first. I don´t see you as opponent, also I´m not here to persuade you about something. It was meant as hint. About your indirect accuses against me:  Nice try, but your words doesn´t affect me and people who know me very well, know also that I´m not sharing these "values" about subjugation etc. So if you want to control someone, look somewhere else.

It's not anyone who has "told the BDSM practitioner what to do"; it's the BDSM practitioner who is telling women (and men for that matter) what to do"

Both are practitioners, not only one. About your rest: It´s vague and not possible to validate for me. If you know most of the men, well. I do not. Also I´m not claiming to speak for all or most whatever. I´m also annoyed by some fellow males who behaves really badly to women in real, but I´m not mixing it up with political topics. 

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19 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

This is a debate about *why men don't come into SL*, and so discussion of the tendency of men to dominate women is in order, and doesn't mean that if a discussion of the opposite, or men with men or women with men is not raised, that somehow the interlocutor has "failed" or is "hypocritical" or blah blah blah.

Yes, it does, because you seem to have taken a human tendency and assigned it as a male-specific one. People do have a tendency to dominate other people (or try to), in all sorts of contexts and for all sorts of reasons, and it gets all sorts of responses (not always negative).

In a virtual platform especially, where RL physical characteristics are irrelevant, who dominates depends on personality traits and skills. From what I've seen, men and women are evenly matched there, though their inclinations and interests may differ. Is that off-putting for men? Not that I've ever seen - if someone is an excellent builder or coder or just an interesting person to chat to they don't care if it's a he or a she behind the screen. Only when it comes to dating does this make a difference, and I see nothing wrong with that. 

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20 hours ago, Matty Luminos said:
22 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Why are you equating those who wish to experiment with power and control within their relationships with some sort of "political persuasion" or an ideology?  It reminds me of those who believe gay people have an "agenda'

I have a "gay agenda". It involves being able to go out in public, holding hands with my partner, and not getting beaten up for it. It involves being able to get married, if we want to. To be parents, if we want to. To have a job in which we don't have to  dodge around questions about "your wife" for fear of getting sacked.

Straight people already have these things. And I am lucky, I live in a part of the world where I (usually) have them too. But there are many more gay people around the world who don't, yet.

lol omg Matty, I'm not sure you should be loose on the forum even ;0

Did you ever see that short video, cracked me up, titled "What Gay Men Do In The Evening"?  I see one on Youtube now, similarly funny, but wasn't the original.  Of course the pubic in general expects some sort of wild gay sex, but the guys just sit on the sofa all evening reading the newspaper, getting a snack, petting the cat, falling asleep...just like non-gay people do..

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On 11/19/2019 at 9:07 AM, Beth Macbain said:

Except real people use SL, and they bring their beliefs, values, and behaviors along with them. 

Okay.  Well here is a good article then.  

https://quillette.com/2019/11/30/is-gender-a-social-construct/ 

The opening paragraph:

Quote

About once every generation, it becomes intellectually fashionable to believe that gender or gender identity is a malleable trait, largely devoid of biological imperatives and at the mercy of parental initiatives or other social forces. Within time, these narratives meet an inevitable backlash from the natural sciences and the furor dies down, only to repeat itself twenty or so years later. We appear to be in the grip of another such cycle, with some individuals declaring that “Gender is a social construct!” and others pronouncing such ideas to be hogwash.

Well, some would say that its not from Harvard, so it doesn't count, but I say its not that far from the mark. 

The closing paragraph.

Quote

Ultimately, the mantra that “gender is a social construct” is misleading and may cause significant confusion and unnecessary acrimony. It is more reasonable to suggest that gender is an internalized sense of masculinity/femininity that is shaped by a complex interaction of genetic, hormonal and social forces. Granted, that’s probably harder to fit on a coffee mug. But I remain optimistic that if we are realistic about the complex interplay of biology and environment, we can work toward an egalitarian and open society that allows individuals to express their individuality whether or not they conform to traditional (or progressive) gender role norms.

 

Edited by Desiree Moonwinder
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5 minutes ago, Desiree Moonwinder said:

Okay.  Well here is a good article then.  

https://quillette.com/2019/11/30/is-gender-a-social-construct/ 

The opening paragraph:

Well, some would say that its not from Harvard, so it doesn't count, but I say its not that far from the mark. 

The closing paragraph.

 

I must apologize, but I have no idea what the context is of this now. You responded to something I posted weeks ago, and I can barely remember what I had for breakfast this morning, and after a quick glance back a few pages... yeah, I'm not going back there again. I really am sorry, but I don't have the energy or desire to revisit that minefield. 🙂

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