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Making SL more welcoming to males

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3 minutes ago, Conall DeCuir said:

Demo, Demo, Demo. A Profile is the Demo of the Character and it helps to read it (really reading it) to see if there is any compatibility. You are not contacting just everyone in RL also i am sure. Many people are not compatible. Also, don't try so hard or harder as it's a good way to piss people off who just do not want. 

In case me IMing anyone, i have read their profiles and found something which interests me at the person and then i write something 'personal' ... and give them time to read my profile :) (which is atm a bit more empty as it used to be) and in case there is a nice conversation evolving, we can couple dance, otherwise we won't do that. Btw, i prefer IMs in higher traffic places as i have open chat usually covered by a notecard or a pic .. it's to much and to fast for me.)

As for the clothes for us men ............ there is a *****load of really great clothes available for us. I hear the women i am with constantly moaning because the textures are better and the clothes are much more interesting and detailed. 

I don't believe in profile. I know only someone after few interaction. Most profile are meaningfulless. I mean it is not personal. They copy from the net something ununderstandable and that have absolutly no meanings

 

Here is an exemple of profile I just pick up now

"'' Mande seus problemas à merda e suas doenças irão com eles... '' (Adriαηø Vєrαs)'' Mande seus problemas à merda e suas doenças irão com eles... '' (Adriαηø Vєrαs)"

If you understand something you are lucky and many profiles are like that.

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2 minutes ago, Lureo said:

I don't believe in profile. I know only someone after few interaction. Most profile are meaningfulless. I mean it is not personal. They copy from the net something ununderstandable and that have absolutly no meanings

That's the ones you filter out. That's why you read profiles. If their profiles are just a copy of other profiles, they have not much to say .. no own thoughts and opinions. I wan't to get a hint of their personality first. 

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5 hours ago, Lureo said:

Playing SL as a male is hard.

 

I would say “playing SL is hard”, period. I would also say, do you want it to be easy? Tic-tac-toe easy, that you can manage it all in a couple hours and then there’s nothing else new to learn, no new challenge to master, nothing to make you feel like you’re still going ahead and not be bored?



Quote

 

If you need a nice avatar you have 10% of items than female

 

First, you don’t “need” a nicer avatar. If you feel your avatar has to do the talking for you, you’re doing it wrong. SL is a bit more than a fashion model runway. I’m not saying there’s no people and places where that happens... I’m saying you don’t have to automatically enslave yourself to those, and do everything they expect or ask of you.

Second, 10% of a huge Marketplace is still a lot. It’s only really insuficcient if you don’t even look at it because you’re somehow protesting that it should be 50% and you won’t look at any of it until it reaches that percentage.

 

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If you want to talk with a female. You are disadvantaged. Female hate males and prefer females. (hate is maybe exagerate but at least you are not welcome) As a male I am always feeling that I disturbe.  if you approach a female she already thinkthat the male want to ***** and try to make the conversation hard telling you that you didn''t start correctly because stating a conversation with hi is not good you need to start with more words. As male you need to be the best and do all the leading. You have not the right to be starter and to be learner. Rarely female start a conversation with male. As a male if you don't start you never talk with a female. If you go in some place people are really strange. I was for example in Franks and pleople are afk most of the time. When they are alive they are really strange and talking a strange language. then they block you.

Yes Second Life is a game for female and male are not welcome.

May I suggest a possible way to succeed more than you apparently have so far? Drop the defeatist, self-victimist, “born-to-be-shunned” attitude already. One instance of it may elicit an “aww” or two, perhaps a couple pats in the back... but if you’re like that all the time, there’s only so much anyone can take of it, especially those who come to SL with their own baggage, and the last thing they need is more downers.

 

Let me put it another way. Regardless of those apparent‘difficulties’, many males succeed wildly in SL—some actually welcome the challenge, if any. Some make incredibly good avatars for themselves. Some gather a huge list of friends—of both genders—whom they have a lot of fun with. Quite a few do both things. And no, these aren’t rocket scientists I’m talking about. They’re just people who try.

And if they can, so can you.

Edited by Ren Toxx
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One think I notice when I use local public chat is that no body notice or reply that is the reason why I am using private message. Is it bad? do you think it is the reason why it is so hard to just talk with people?

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No, persevere. There’s something to be said for people who aren’t afraid to speak up in local, and it broadens the possibility of anyone answering, without sending the same IM to everyone 😉

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I both agree and disagree with so much that has already been written in this thread.

There is no right and wrong here, and that is because SL isn't one single thing. It's a billion things. There are people speaking here in absolutes - "no, you shouldn't do that", "yes, you should do this."

Mixed messages abound. What few people seem to understand are the correlations between SL and RL. No two people are going to be exactly the same, and what they want or expect isn't going to be the same. Neither of them are right, and neither of them are wrong. 

IM first, local chat first, make sure you have a nice looking avatar, don't worry about what your avatar looks like, there are enough clothes for men, there aren't enough clothes for men, say hello first, don't say hello first, read the profiles, don't read the profiles, etc., etc., etc. 

I have my sort of internal checklist for what I'm seeking - It's unique to me. If someone doesn't tick those boxes, just like in the real world, I have to make a decision whether or not I want to continue the engagement and overlook whatever it is I find lacking, and it could be something as minor as having typos all over their profile, or if I want to cut it off and move on. There is a delicacy in conveying that to the person I'm chatting with. I typically try to be polite with the "Thank you, I'm just not interested, but please have a wonderful evening." The way someone responds to that is very telling. I have immense respect for men who respond in kind, and there have been times when the response has been so lovely I've changed my mind. But then there are the "Your loss" guys. Or worse, "You're loss". 

I'm not for everyone, and everyone is not for me. Anyone who comes into SL thinking they're going to be for everyone is going to be sadly disappointed. 

I do think that LL needs to diversify their marketing efforts to target different audiences, and one of those audiences is straight men. There are plenty of things for straight men in SL, but if the straight men of the world don't know about it, what good does that do? I can speak as to what I think straight men would like as far as marketing goes, but since I'm not a straight male, I could be way off the mark. I'm looking at some of the things SL is pushing right now - the blogger network, Lab Gab with two chicks, even my beloved Bellisseria, and to me, none of those things are really very appealing to straight guys. I might be wrong about that, though. 

But I do think marketing needs big changes, not only to target straight males, but a ton of other groups as well, and straight males would need to be broken down to all sorts of demographics to target rather than just a generic "straight male". 

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Get more stores to offer more than crotch hammocks,  board shorts and tank tops.  I'm so tired of seeing the lack of good mens clothing options. We women have endless stores to go to.  Men only get a handful and most times, they offer the same things, just different textures. Maybe if there were  more for men, more men would feel it's worth it to log into SL. 

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I think people who claim to ignore local chat and claim to only deal in IM are stuck up toss snots but that’s just my opinion. 

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4 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:

Anecdotal evidence is all that anyone can have on this question since Linden Lab doesn't publish (and likely doesnt even have) data on it  However, anecdotally I can say that less tgam half - MUCH less than half of the women I've met inworld and on various SL related forums have not been in SL for dating purposes. 

But anecdotal evidence isn't really all we've got, we have actual evidence all around us. We only have our own anecdotal evidence and experiences, sure, but we can literally see others all over the place, all around us, too, and that's not anecdotal. 

Like I said, a lot of people certainly say they don't treat (or view) sl like a dating service, not even a casual one, but how they actually do treat it, and treat their interactions with others, suggests very much the opposite. Even if they don't do it all the time, many people do, especially women, until or unless they run across someone that isn't of their liking. If it's not the vibe they want to give off, they're not all doing a very good job. You can even see it in the forums when people discuss all kinds of topics, not just the lifestyles/relationships forum, but other forums as well.

Your experience differs, as does my own experience, but that still doesn't make us in the majority, lol. That was my point. I'm not knocking people for treating sl or their interactions with others that way, not in the least.  I think sl should be whatever people want it to be for themselves (within the confines of laws and TOS of course, lol). I'm just truthful about the vibe people give off, whether they realize they do it or not.  People talk pretty candidly, or casually I suppose, about it a lot. Maybe folks don't realize it, I dunno. Even these discussions about why "hi" isn't an appropriate opening line have hints of precisely the same thing....women who think men treat it like a dating service, who very well may not realize their own responses or opinions make them come off as if they do too.

 

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Last time I checked SL was "your world, your imagination". Its a big sandbox. I don't know what about that should be female-focused or anti-male. If men don't enjoy SL as much as many women do, thats not necessarly an issue. Just as we don't need to get rid of shooters, because they appeal to a male audiance more than to a female audiance (or the other way around, when we would talk about the Sims, for example).

 

Also on the dating debate: I don't think men see SL as a dating platform and women don't and even if, that wouldn't be the issue. Lets be precise here: Many men see SL as a hook up place for virtual one night stands.

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3 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

Many men see SL as a hook up place for virtual one night stands.

So do many women.

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1 hour ago, Syo Emerald said:

Last time I checked SL was "your world, your imagination". Its a big sandbox. I don't know what about that should be female-focused or anti-male. If men don't enjoy SL as much as many women do, thats not necessarly an issue. Just as we don't need to get rid of shooters, because they appeal to a male audiance more than to a female audiance (or the other way around, when we would talk about the Sims, for example).

One half of the potential playerbase grew up building with legos and pretending to shoot toy soldiers at each other, the other half grew up dressing up barbies and hosting tea parties with Mr Bunny. The rest of the video game market caters for some types of sandboxing far better than others, and SL is pretty crap at those high-supply types. As a result, the kind of sandboxing SL offers is pretty noticeably gender weighted.

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2 hours ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

I think people who claim to ignore local chat and claim to only deal in IM are stuck up toss snots but that’s just my opinion. 

Well, gosh. I think I just removed it from my profile because I'm rearranging things on my profile, but I did state that I often don't see local, so if I'm approached in local and I ignore you it is probably for that reason. I don't read it. I have to force myself to read it at clubs. I don't notice it because I'm usually busy shopping or taking photos or exploring or... and not expecting conversation.

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5 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:

As for finding people unfriendly when you IM them, that is because you are using IM rather than local chat. IM tends to be more a thing between people who are already friends, and many people are extremely untrusting of IMs from people they don't already know.

Make friends with them in local chat first. IMs are for later. 

Whaaaaaa... I've been doing SL wrong for 10+ years. I somehow missed this rule. 

IM vs Local was a thread here not too long ago, and I said then that I tend to be an IM person, and it works fine for me starting conversations with strangers in IM. If I'm in a club and there is chatter, I will remind myself to follow it and participate, but I don't start conversations with specific avatars in that situation. I'm horrible at it, but I'll generically chatter in local at the club while starting a conversation with someone in IM. Anywhere other than a club and I am oblivious to local because 99.999999% of the time it is just annoying gestures, private conversations I don't want any part of, etc. 

(Typed in a non-argumentative way here.)

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3 hours ago, Catrie said:

Get more stores to offer more than crotch hammocks,  board shorts and tank tops.  I'm so tired of seeing the lack of good mens clothing options. We women have endless stores to go to.  Men only get a handful and most times, they offer the same things, just different textures. Maybe if there were  more for men, more men would feel it's worth it to log into SL. 

I used to be active in the Poser community, before it became the Daz3D community...

It used to be a common topic around the year 2000 and such to ask 'why are there no options for male figures for my art?'

- the answer then is the answer here and is basic capitalism: nobody buys it.

Not enough anyway.

You can put out a mesh 'nipple' that doesn't even fit right and get better sales at $30,000L than putting out an entire masterfully done fully bento fullperms low complexity wardrobe for a diverse range of styles for men, as a $1L near-freebie...

- I exaggerate only slightly...

 

I see more male avatars in shops for women than in shops for men as well... so... I think the men wouldn't take that wardrobe even if you paid them to take it...

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5 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:

As for finding people unfriendly when you IM them, that is because you are using IM rather than local chat. IM tends to be more a thing between people who are already friends, and many people are extremely untrusting of IMs from people they don't already know.

Make friends with them in local chat first. IMs are for later. 

Agree.

I ignore most IMs that come to me.

Then again most of them are one word comments.

I was actually thinking today about how to write a script that scans the IMs that comes to me and auto replies to any IM lacking more than one 'space' with:

"A proper sentence contains a subject, object, and verb. Until you can handle that; goodbye."

But even then, I don't like random IMs.

Speaking of the whole "learn to read a profile or bugger off" topic - at various points in time I've stated as much in my profile.

If you don't have enough game to say it in public; you don't have enough game for me.

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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6 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

Anywhere other than a club and I am oblivious to local because 99.999999% of the time it is just annoying gestures, private conversations I don't want any part of, etc. 

 

That's what i am doing also.

[03:42] some girl (xxx): ☆(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ LAUGHING MY CUTE  ASS OFF☆(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ 
[03:42] some other girl (xxx): shhhhhhh
[03:43] some girl (xxx): i no
[03:43] some girl (xxx): (͡°̯͡°)۶˜°º↘  ḾmHmm ... ↙º°˜٩(͡°̯͡°)۶.
[03:43] some girl (xxx):    .. Ṫḧḁṫ'ṥ Wḧḁṫ I  ŜåiḊ ! ! 
[03:43] some other girl (xxx): imo k
[03:43]some girl (xxx): ❤✿ thank youuu❤✿
[03:44] MOVE! Animations Danceball SHOUT shouts:  BUY DANCES FROM ME ! To Buy a Dance, Choose a Dance, click me again choose -BUY CURRENT- then just PAY me.
[03:44] some girl (xxx): ty
[03:44] some girl (xxx):    _      _                       _        _ 
[03:44] some girl (xxx):    |  |   |  |                     |  |     |  | 
[03:44] some girl (xxx):    |  |   |  
[03:44] some girl (xxx):    |  |/\|  | /  _  \ / _  \ |  __|  |  | 
[03:44] some girl (xxx):    \   /\   /  (_)  |  (_)  |  |_    |_| 
[03:44] some girl (xxx):     \/   \/  \___/\___

and it goes on and on and on and on ............. and that's when i am covering my local chat window because it makes me totally dizzy. 

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10 hours ago, Lureo said:

Yes Second Life is a game for female and male are not welcome.

 

First of all, SL ain't no game. It ain't no disco, it ain't no fooling around...

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If any man who is considering joining SL looks at these forums to get a feel for the place, is it any wonder they don't join?!

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1 minute ago, Eric Castanea said:

First of all, SL ain't no game. It ain't no disco, it ain't no fooling around...

I fool around playing in SL all the time with my disco animations. :P

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20 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

Well, gosh. I think I just removed it from my profile because I'm rearranging things on my profile, but I did state that I often don't see local, so if I'm approached in local and I ignore you it is probably for that reason. I don't read it. I have to force myself to read it at clubs. I don't notice it because I'm usually busy shopping or taking photos or exploring or... and not expecting conversation.

I think there's a massive difference between stating the fact that you don't always notice local (like you), and proclaiming that reading local is beneath you. And this is still true if you swap "IM" for "local".

Preferences are fine, making a note in your profile about your unconscious behaviour is fine, but if you ignore one of the two main methods of communication in SL over some self-righteous crusade... you're probably not worth talking to anyway.

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9 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I see more male avatars in shops for women than in shops for men as well... so... I think the men wouldn't take that wardrobe even if you paid them to take it...

Men can't purchase something that isn't there.  I've talked to plenty of male SL players and they lament the fact that they can't easily run out and buy clothing they like, like I can.  They end up wearing the same outfit for 6+months, simply because there hasn't been anything they've liked that's been released in that time frame.  Even stuff that has been released, the quality isn't always good.

The men of SL aren't really given the wardrobe choices they should have.  In another thread, several months ago, Skell gave examples of clothing he'd love to see in game.  Several people expressed interest in them, but guess what?  No designer has come out with anything even remotely similar.  I, for one, would buy men's clothing for gifts.  I've done so before.   The holidays are coming up and people will be spending Linden left, right and center.  But, they can't buy what isn't available. 

If guys were given more clothing options, chances are good that they'd actually spend money on themselves.

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17 minutes ago, Catrie said:

If guys were given more clothing options, chances are good that they'd actually spend money on themselves.

People in the Poser / Daz3d community repeated tested that theory to failure. They'd put something out for men, and something a little lower quality out for women - and the male stuff would sell in droplets while the female stuff would sell like a flood.

And a lot of the higher end mesh makers here in SL, came from there.

People wanting stuff for males keep saying "make it and we will buy it", but then fail to actually do so when it does get made... so modelers don't waste time and money there.

This is a very easy problem for men to solve... you want more stuff for your avatar; go and get all your homies to show up and buy the complete inventory of several shops, on a monthly basis. You can be sure those shops will rapidly start spinning out new product.

Stop hanging out in Blueberry with your 'cam' focused on my butt, and go to actual male shops and buy stuff...

 

Whoever is the lucky person that owns the Blueberry brand... I remember when it was a small nearly forgettable store with just a few good things. Folks showed up and bought it all... and told other folks... Blueberry didn't just decide to be magnanimous and make us all wonderful stuff... the community told them their product was wanted, with money, so they grew.

 

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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25 minutes ago, Eric Castanea said:

First of all, SL ain't no game. It ain't no disco, it ain't no fooling around...

There's plenty of all three. Country clubs too...

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