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Bree Giffen

Making SL more welcoming to males

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9 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

That's not mansplaining! Just because a man explains something (as I start doing mansplaining) doesn't make it mansplaining. There was an implied question in my "I don't know how to..." and you answered! For what it is worth, women are just as capable of mansplaining as men. Yay equality.

   ... ... Peoplesplaining! No wait, that's plural. Personsplaining!

10 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

I couldn't agree more. I realize the way things work in social advancements is that the pendulum first swings one way then over swings the other, and so on, until it settles down a bit. #metoo etc was a needed correction, but yes, it has now moved into the over-swing. It seems such an easy concept: Treat everyone the same with wages, etc.

   I think that #MeToo was a blunt scalpel right off the bat, honestly. The result wasn't that we stopped up to have a good look at what was going on, but an immediate witch-hunt phenomenon which resulted in men losing their jobs at the mere pointing of a finger. Did some of those men deserve it? Most assuredly. Did all of them? No, some lives were ruined, possibly beyond repair, because some women abused this hysteria to hurt people. 

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6 minutes ago, Orwar said:
  25 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

I couldn't agree more. I realize the way things work in social advancements is that the pendulum first swings one way then over swings the other, and so on, until it settles down a bit. #metoo etc was a needed correction, but yes, it has now moved into the over-swing. It seems such an easy concept: Treat everyone the same with wages, etc.

 

6 minutes ago, Orwar said:

I think that #MeToo was a blunt scalpel right off the bat, honestly. The result wasn't that we stopped up to have a good look at what was going on, but an immediate witch-hunt phenomenon which resulted in men losing their jobs at the mere pointing of a finger. Did some of those men deserve it? Most assuredly. Did all of them? No, some lives were ruined, possibly beyond repair, because some women abused this hysteria to hurt people. 

That's what I meant by the pendulum has moved into the over-swing. I get very worried about the trial by social media aspect of it. Then again, look how many women had to come forward to have Bill Cosby get his hands slapped. #metoo sharply brought into focus women's daily crap, and now the cudgel comes. It will self-correct in the other direction (and I think it already is), and go too far that way. Back and forth.

Edited by Seicher Rae
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Just to throw another male comment on clothing for men in Second Life, I happen to love a lot of what's happening in men's fashion in SL right now.  I've been around for almost 10 years now and a lot of that time I wore jeans and t-shirts, which was a lot of the clothing back then.  But a few years back I started really hunting for clothing less by store name and shopping for what I liked.  Now a days I have a larger demo folder than my wife and not nearly enough lindens to buy it all.  I keep finding new stores every week that I love.  Over my time in Second Life I've met many wonderful women that I was friends with, although lately it seems harder and harder to make friends and BE friends with anyone, let alone members of the opposite sex.  I feel as if most see me as just another married man looking for something on the side that my wife won't know about.  It's hard to be as open and trusting as you used to could be in SL, though.  We miss having just friends that we can hang out with and talk to without having to worry about one of them trying to slide between us...male or female.  And I tend to ramble and lose focus in my old age so ignore me while I reminisce about walking uphill in the snow to clubs....🙄

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1 hour ago, Storm Clarence said:

You don't see how your words are rude, stereotypical; reeking of misandry and would turn men off from this game?    Why do you get a free pass? Just askin.

If what you say above is what men wanted then us, as men, would have built it.   Period.     Second life was started by a man.

No I did not see that at all, hence my flippant reply. I saw it as an attempt to defuse what could rapidly become a very heated topic by taking the rise out of something extremely stereotypical, thereby opening up for more interesting input. So Ser Toxx had the right idea. Shame it didn't work. Not really surprising though.

As to why I merely read and did not take part in the rest?  I prefer to discuss these topics outside of the public facing pages of SL. We do, after all, have a complete world in which to do this, not restricted to just those who are denizens of the forum.

PS this bacon fixation is nauseating.

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15 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

#metoo sharply brought into focus women's daily crap, and now the cudgel comes

It was well-intended, and I do know there were men who were absolutely shocked when they were able to see the vastness of the problem.

However, many women took it way, way too far and it became less about "this is a wide spread problem and most women have been a victim" to "with the vast number of women who are victims, there must be an equally vast number of men who are the worst and we should burn them all!"

And not in the fun way that Maddy burns people.

To me, the movement pretty much lost all credibility when the mess about Asia Argento came out. Women were using #metoo as a way to get publicity, and if that wasn't gross enough, some like Asia were using it to cover their own predatory behavior. 

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3 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

It was well-intended, and I do know there were men who were absolutely shocked when they were able to see the vastness of the problem.

However, many women took it way, way too far and it became less about "this is a wide spread problem and most women have been a victim" to "with the vast number of women who are victims, there must be an equally vast number of men who are the worst and we should burn them all!"

I personally never saw that, but I was so, so thankful that there was finally a strong, visible channel where I could add my voice to the many others to show just how widespread and commonplace this is. I even came right out and shared some of the things that have been said to me as part of street harassment,  which I'd not done before. I never really wanted to associate myself explicitly with phrases such as, "I'd absolutely bash her back doors in", "Wouldn't you love to s***k on her t**s" and "God I love it when c***s wear suits". Now of course this is a minority of men, but it happens frequently enough for me to have spent the best part of 20 years no longer being shocked or surprised by it, though I may be disgusted and outraged. It is not a tiny, vanishingly small issue. The people who were most horrified by my experiences were men, including my own Dom, largely because they had simply not known either the scale of it, or just how absolutely vile it can get. Women already knew. 

I am sure there were SOME people who took it to mean that all or most men were like this, and they would of course be dead wrong. But I don't think they would have needed much encouragement anyway. And I'm saddened that, as usual, a channel of female voices giving light to just how serious a certain problem is still has to have too much of its focus deflected by people hastening to draw attention to these arses. As if they are as huge a problem as the actual original issue, and point out how, as ever, it's Gone Too Far. 

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Just an aside, I notice that the OP hasn't joined in on her topic since posting. Not even a ♥ as far as I can tell (not that I looked that closely over 14 pages).

I went back to revisit the cringe-inducing guillotine comment. It literally did induce a cringe in me when I first read it. I'm happy to report that I didn't react to it directly (I can never tell what I'll do, so it is good to check). That didn't stop me from checking out Marketplace, and sadly proving my internal guess was correct about what is available (one designed by a man, one by a woman). I have already alluded to kind of cringing about MM's "good natured" flaming of people who aren't familiar with the process (and even those who are).

That being said...

Way back when in this thread, or another, I mentioned that having a sense of humor takes people a long ways in communication and understanding. There seems to be no end to how sensitive people want and choose to get these days, and you can't turn around without offending at least thirty people in thirty different ways. I actually laughed at the post about giving men more things to kill and eff (although I didn't ♥ the comment). Yes, I understand why it is insulting and a stereotype, but I also think there was humor. Sometimes humor is the best way to teach people hence the efficacy of shows like The Daily Show.  Honestly, to get upset about "bacon"? Yeesh. Fwiw, I, as a woman, love bacon. I will laugh at bacon jokes, aimed at any species or gender. Yes, yes, before I get jumped all over for being naive or insensitive or something, I understand that humor is subjective. Because it is subjective we really should lighten up more and give each other a bit more latitude before reaching for the flamethrowers.

I'm such a naive Utopian.

Edited by Seicher Rae
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8 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

Just an aside, I notice that the OP hasn't joined in on her topic since posting. Not even a ♥ as far as I can tell (not that I looked that closely over 14 pages).

Because it was spam. Trolling. Trying to trigger people into arguing.

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11 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

Way back when in this thread, or another, I mentioned that having a sense of humor takes people a long ways in communication and understanding. There seems to be no end to how sensitive people want and choose to get these days, and you can't turn around without offending at least thirty people in thirty different ways. I actually laughed at the post about giving men more things to kill and eff (although I didn't ♥ the comment). Yes, I understand why it is insulting and a stereotype, but I also think there was humor. Sometimes humor is the best way to teach people (hence the efficacy of shows like The Daily Show.)  Honestly, to get upset about "bacon"? Yeesh. Fwiw, I, as a woman, love bacon. I will laugh at bacon jokes, aimed at any species or gender. Yes, yes, before I get jumped all over for being naive or insensitive or something, I understand that humor is subjective. Because it is subjective we really should lighten up more and give each other a bit more latitude before reaching for the flamethrowers.

I think that in the minds of men, and some women, the truck jokes, or kill/bang jokes, or bacon jokes, are the equivalent of all women liking pink, or all women cry and stuff themselves with ice cream when they have a breakup, or all women are dramatic and catty, etc., etc., etc. 

Gender stereotypes are bad on either side. I can't get angry at a man for making a joke about how women always have to go to the bathroom together if I don't also get mad at some woman for making a joke about how all men love trucks, bacon, killing things, and sexing things. 

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10 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I think that in the minds of men, and some women, the truck jokes, or kill/bang jokes, or bacon jokes, are the equivalent of all women liking pink, or all women cry and stuff themselves with ice cream when they have a breakup, or all women are dramatic and catty, etc., etc., etc. 

Gender stereotypes are bad on either side. I can't get angry at a man for making a joke about how women always have to go to the bathroom together if I don't also get mad at some woman for making a joke about how all men love trucks, bacon, killing things, and sexing things. 

Ayeyup. I also laugh at jokes about ice cream, drama, etc. To a point. Just as I laugh about the killing and effing. To a point.  Stereotypes just are.  As the old saw goes, there's often a smidge of truth to the stereotype. Do I want to be reduced to a stereotype? Hellzno. Can I laugh at myself? Yes. Can I laugh at others, yes, but I generally stop at the point to which it is cruel (I hope). The world needs to lighten up a bit.

I don't believe in double standards, either. I can giggle about kills and effs but only if I'm willing to giggle about drama, etc. And I sure as heck will laugh AT someone who spouts idiotic nonsense, like the fella who sparked the guillotine stuff. 

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Someone said something in a humorous manner, I responded with humor. Then I got burned at the stake. Rhetorical question: Is it really any wonder isolation becomes more and more appealing? You can only draw back a nub so many times before there's nothing left to draw back.

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40 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I think that in the minds of men, and some women, the truck jokes, or kill/bang jokes, or bacon jokes, are the equivalent of all women liking pink, or all women cry and stuff themselves with ice cream when they have a breakup, or all women are dramatic and catty, etc., etc., etc. 

   .. Wait, what's a truck joke?

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19 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Someone said something in a humorous manner, I responded with humor. Then I got burned at the stake. Rhetorical question: Is it really any wonder isolation becomes more and more appealing? You can only draw back a nub so many times before there's nothing left to draw back.

In many ways you are speaking to the choir here. I am a founding member of Misanthropes Anonymous. (We'd hold meetings, but no one shows up because we all annoy each other too much.) Humor is hard, for sure. In RL (and SL?) I tend to have a very dry delivery, not necessarily on purpose, and it can often miss the mark (because people are stupid, because I'm super hilarious). Yes, I read "rhetorical" but you aren't the boss of me so I can type anyways. See what I mean? That was said jokingly but there are some who would flame me for that.

Btw, not to invoke a thread that has gone to meet its maker, but I was told once that I can't be depressed because I tell and laugh at jokes. That went over well...

There were some pretty (aggrevous<--- spell check took that as correct effing spell check) egregious remarks made in this thread, on both sides. On the other hand, a lot of the drama could have been reduced by having a few laughs.

Edited by Seicher Rae
never said I could spell
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3 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   .. Wait, what's a truck joke?

A painter loses his vehicle and all he could say was, “Where'd my Van Gogh?”

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1 minute ago, Amina Sopwith said:

A painter loses his vehicle and all he could say was, “Where'd my Van Gogh?”

   That was ... Terrible. But I did chortle.

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6 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

A painter loses his vehicle and all he could say was, “Where'd my Van Gogh?”

Amina goes for equality and delivers a dad joke! ♥ :D

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4 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

Gender stereotypes are bad on either side. I can't get angry at a man for making a joke about how women always have to go to the bathroom together

the last time a woman went to the bathroom by herself, Hermione got attacked by a Troll. 

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I'm mostly a reader in the forums, and mostly interested in other subforums.  I peeked in here to see why the huge post-count.  Ya'll are typing about things that aren't really about SL at all.  RL has pretty well covered these topics.  The debates are not really an SL topic.  I'd recommend taking it to RL.  Like these.

A balanced article:  http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm

An unbalanced article: https://quillette.com/2019/11/14/the-price-of-sex/

Enjoy!

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I've come up with a list of improvements that Linden Lab and Residents can implement to make SL more male oriented. The focus should be on doing things. Not talking or shopping but real action. Active stuff.

1. A better physics engine for more realistic vehicles. Flying a plane, driving a car or sailing a boat should look and feel believable. Driving your car off a cliff should cause an explosion!

2. Better sim crossings to continue with the idea of having a better vehicle experience.

3. Trees that can be chopped down with axes and chainsaws. The physics engine will help with this.

4. Something with guns like having wild animals running around that can be hunted. 

5. Something with power tools like having to actually cut a prim cube from a log that you chopped down. 

5. An intricate simulation of grilling and smoking meat.

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12 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

I've come up with a list of improvements that Linden Lab and Residents can implement to make SL more male oriented. The focus should be on doing things. Not talking or shopping but real action. Active stuff.

1. A better physics engine for more realistic vehicles. Flying a plane, driving a car or sailing a boat should look and feel believable. Driving your car off a cliff should cause an explosion!

2. Better sim crossings to continue with the idea of having a better vehicle experience.

3. Trees that can be chopped down with axes and chainsaws. The physics engine will help with this.

4. Something with guns like having wild animals running around that can be hunted. 

5. Something with power tools like having to actually cut a prim cube from a log that you chopped down. 

5. An intricate simulation of grilling and smoking meat.

Gentlemen . . . you've been trolled.

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3 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

I've come up with a list of improvements that Linden Lab and Residents can implement to make SL more male oriented. The focus should be on doing things. Not talking or shopping but real action. Active stuff.

1. A better physics engine for more realistic vehicles. Flying a plane, driving a car or sailing a boat should look and feel believable. Driving your car off a cliff should cause an explosion!

2. Better sim crossings to continue with the idea of having a better vehicle experience.

3. Trees that can be chopped down with axes and chainsaws. The physics engine will help with this.

4. Something with guns like having wild animals running around that can be hunted. 

5. Something with power tools like having to actually cut a prim cube from a log that you chopped down. 

5. An intricate simulation of grilling and smoking meat.

I think those are called survival games. 

Oh wait....  I play survival games. 

Clod-1_2017-06-30_01-36-45.png.95e60912c9658f92a415772432ec1321.png

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2 hours ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

Second Life has needed better chainsaw physics for a long time.

Second Life, maybe indeed. These Forums though? Never!!

 

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4 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

I've come up with a list of improvements that Linden Lab and Residents can implement to make SL more male oriented. The focus should be on doing things. Not talking or shopping but real action. Active stuff.

1. A better physics engine for more realistic vehicles. Flying a plane, driving a car or sailing a boat should look and feel believable. Driving your car off a cliff should cause an explosion!

2. Better sim crossings to continue with the idea of having a better vehicle experience.

3. Trees that can be chopped down with axes and chainsaws. The physics engine will help with this.

4. Something with guns like having wild animals running around that can be hunted. 

5. Something with power tools like having to actually cut a prim cube from a log that you chopped down. 

5. An intricate simulation of grilling and smoking meat.

I want all these. And #5 made me hungry.

 

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