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Bree Giffen

Making SL more welcoming to males

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SL seems to be tilted toward the feminine. Is that right? How do we make it more masculine? Maybe more pickup trucks. What would you suggest.

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I have a pickup truck in my inventory already.  I think it is more that men just don't buy as many outfits.  We find something we like and don't change it very often which means there are not as many designers for men's clothing and avatars because the market is not there.  Of course the Hello Kitty thing did not help much if you wanted to attract men.  (Really, I took one look at the announcement and went YUCK!)  4WD mud racing would be much better.

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One of my friends invented a Demolition Derby.  It was terrific fun...but, um, I think a lot of the drivers were women.

Anyway, I'm not sure that SL is all that female-centric.  Look at any department store in RL; they devote way more floor space to women's things than men's.  Check a phone directory and see how many more entries there are for "beauty salons" than there are for "barber shops".

It's a woman's world.

Edited by Lindal Kidd
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Men aren’t as interested in social games on average. That’s how it’s always been.

If you want a social game and a more male atmosphere, play Runescape. No jokes.

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I believe that would depend on the userbase creating for the platform -- I think even SL sanctioned events make use of what creators put out.

Second Life creators tend to be overwhelmingly female, though I don't know if this applies to land barons as well. Most sims that are gender neutral (IE parks, recreational, etc) don't have a specific draw to them aside from being public locations to do meet and greets. However, I've noticed that in the past two years male items and fashion are definitely more accessible and varied, though most of SL is still aesthetically feminine.

So I'm not really sure how else to address it unless creators started making a lot more male-centric products.

Edited by KirinGale

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To be honest, I have to agree with cheesecurd on this one.

SL is what it is, there are still males here. 

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From what I've seen at the places I frequent, there are almost as many male avatars as female avatars in-world -- although the market (like in RL) is very female-oriented.

It seems though that the demand just isn't there to create more male-oriented items and fashion. It rather seems that male avatars (in general) don't change their look as often as female avatars, that they even buy less stuff in average than females.

Also, there always have been a lot of (RL-)males who've changed to female avatars for whatever reasons, which has made SL even more female-oriented than it may have been before.

Edited by ThorinII
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4 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

SL seems to be tilted toward the feminine. Is that right? How do we make it more masculine? Maybe more pickup trucks. What would you suggest.

Directions in pictures with naked ladies on them. It seems to be the only thing noob males pay attention to.

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From a guy, some things that would make me happier.

  • More mesh clothing for the more conservative bodies like Slink Physique, not all of us want to be body builders or roid monkeys. (Most specifically more with a classy gothic look.)
  • Better sim crossings for those of us that love driving, flying, boating, etc.
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More places dedicated to kill and/or f**k everything that moves, and half of the things that don’t?

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Playing SL as a male is hard.

- If you need a nice avatar you have 10% of items than female

- If you want to talk with a female. You are disadvantaged. Female hate males and prefer females. (hate is maybe exagerate but at least you are not welcome) As a male I am always feeling that I disturbe.  if you approach a female she already think that the male want to ***** and try to make the conversation hard telling you that you didn''t start correctly because stating a conversation with hi is not good you need to start with more words. As male you need to be the best and do all the leading. You have not the right to be starter and to be learner. Rarely female start a conversation with male. As a male if you don't start you never talk with a female. If you go in some place people are really strange. I was for example in Franks and pleople are afk most of the time. When they are alive they are really strange and talking a strange language. then they block you.

Yes Second Life is a game for female and male are not welcome.

 

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31 minutes ago, Lureo said:

Playing SL as a male is hard.

- If you need a nice avatar you have 10% of items than female

- If you want to talk with a female. You are disadvantaged. Female hate males and prefer females. (hate is maybe exagerate but at least you are not welcome) As a male I am always feeling that I disturbe.  if you approach a female she already think that the male want to ***** and try to make the conversation hard telling you that you didn''t start correctly because stating a conversation with hi is not good you need to start with more words. As male you need to be the best and do all the leading. You have not the right to be starter and to be learner. Rarely female start a conversation with male. As a male if you don't start you never talk with a female. If you go in some place people are really strange. I was for example in Franks and pleople are afk most of the time. When they are alive they are really strange and talking a strange language. then they block you.

Yes Second Life is a game for female and male are not welcome.

 

This is totally not my experience at all. I am a man and have been using a male avatar since 2006.

Talking to people isn't hard if you engage with them in local chat first. Get involved in the active conversation. If there is no active conversation, the problem isn't that you're male, it's that you're in the wrong place. And if your goal is to pick up women, then "Second Life" is probably the wrong place.

And that, I think, is part of the reason that SL fails for many men; because they come here with unrealistic expectations of SL as a dating service. It is a really terrible dating service, because the majority of women are not using it as a dating service at all.

Another thing SL is (now) bad at, is making money. If your expectation is to make SL your sole source of income, well that ain't gonna happen now, unless you are already a 3d-modeller to professional standard.

Why does SL work for me, when it doesn't work for other men? Well to begin with, my reason for coming to SL was the music, and that's why I am still here, 13 years later. Music is one of the things that SL continues to do well. Also, I am not and have never been a gamer, so I have never compared SL against the quality or content of any other game. I think most men who come to SL do so because they think it's another game, and they are inevitably disappointed.

Edited by Lewis Luminos
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16 minutes ago, Lewis Luminos said:

 because the majority of women are not using it as a dating service at all.

Very wise words.

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4 hours ago, Mortus Allen said:

From a guy, some things that would make me happier.

  • More mesh clothing for the more conservative bodies like Slink Physique, not all of us want to be body builders or roid monkeys. (Most specifically more with a classy gothic look.)
  • Better sim crossings for those of us that love driving, flying, boating, etc.

I presume you've already visited Contraption? 

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52 minutes ago, Syn Anatine said:
1 hour ago, Lewis Luminos said:

 because the majority of women are not using it as a dating service at all.

Very wise words.

As much as I'd like to agree with this, I just can't. A lot of people (especially females) will say they don't use sl as a dating service, but a whole hell of a lot of them certainly treat it (or their interactions with others) as such. That is, until someone not of their liking-for whatever reason-in turn treats their interaction with said person as if it's through a dating service....then all hell breaks loose that the perp is tarred, feathered and quartered for daring to do so. Maybe some women don't realize they give off this casual dating service vibe, but..they do. I see it in posts on the forums ALL the time, probably at least half the posts women make in the relationships(or whatever it's called, lol) forum up there...women give off the "I treat sl like a casual dating service" vibe constantly. But if you dare say that's how they sound..they're more likely to get pissed and start paddling down de' nile. Not sure why they get mad, but they do. One would think they'd be glad someone pointed out that vibe, if it's not the one they're trying to convey. 

It may be treated as a casual dating service (grindr, tinder, whatever have you, same concept, most aren't looking for long term, they're looking for fun hookups..it's still a dating service), versus "I'm looking for a lifetime partner" dating service...but a hell of a lot of people still treat it like one, no matter how many times (or in what ways) they try to convince you of the contrary. 

Women are absolutely the prime perps with this, because they tend to out number males (I am speaking of female avs, not necessarily female humans behind the avs). I'm not knocking them hopefully no one thinks that. But denying that women treat sl as a dating service more than men is just weird, the numbers alone suggest otherwise. 

Anecdotal evidence doesn't negate fact, either. I am one of those that's never used sl as a dating service (met hubby elsewhere online actually, lol). I know people who haven't too. We're still not in the majority though. 

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1 hour ago, Lureo said:

Yes Second Life is a game for female and male are not welcome.

 

Gosh really? Wow so I've been doing it all wrong for the past decade.

@Ren ToxxIf you think it would help but might get better results if you throw in a complimentary two four and carton of smokes :)

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1 hour ago, Lewis Luminos said:

This is totally not my experience at all. I am a man and have been using a male avatar since 2006.

Talking to people isn't hard if you engage with them in local chat first. Get involved in the active conversation. If there is no active conversation, the problem isn't that you're male, it's that you're in the wrong place. And if your goal is to pick up women, then "Second Life" is probably the wrong place.

My man has an avi too. But he only uses it when he does his DJ gigs and been bugging me to spiff it up since he's too lazy! :D

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3 hours ago, Lureo said:

Playing SL as a male is hard.

- If you need a nice avatar you have 10% of items than female

- If you want to talk with a female. You are disadvantaged. Female hate males and prefer females. (hate is maybe exagerate but at least you are not welcome) As a male I am always feeling that I disturbe.  if you approach a female she already think that the male want to ***** and try to make the conversation hard telling you that you didn''t start correctly because stating a conversation with hi is not good you need to start with more words. As male you need to be the best and do all the leading. You have not the right to be starter and to be learner. Rarely female start a conversation with male. As a male if you don't start you never talk with a female. If you go in some place people are really strange. I was for example in Franks and pleople are afk most of the time. When they are alive they are really strange and talking a strange language. then they block you.

Yes Second Life is a game for female and male are not welcome.

 

As a female player I can tell you that the clothing thing is pure BS. If you actually look at what’s on offer it’s 4738283 versions of the same damn boring ass thing. With the occasional good item thrown in. When guys have something made for them there is usually more thought and effort put into the design process. With girls it’s “omgaww we totally need yet another pencil skirt or basic dress to add to the 10 million on marketplace already”.

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1 hour ago, Tari Landar said:

Anecdotal evidence doesn't negate fact, either. I am one of those that's never used sl as a dating service (met hubby elsewhere online actually, lol). I know people who haven't too. We're still not in the majority though. 

Anecdotal evidence is all that anyone can have on this question since Linden Lab doesn't publish (and likely doesnt even have) data on it  However, anecdotally I can say that less tgam half - MUCH less than half of the women I've met inworld and on various SL related forums have not been in SL for dating purposes. 

1 hour ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

My man has an avi too. But he only uses it when he does his DJ gigs and been bugging me to spiff it up since he's too lazy! :D

I dont mind spiffing myself up, but I find that I don't really need much in the way of clothes . Whereas a women might have a collection of formal gowns for example, all a guy needs is one good quality tux with a colour change hud. But a tux like that costs a lot more than a gown.

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Well, maybe a special SL Primer for RL males?

I’ve seen many, many males show up thinking that SL is exclusively a sex-game ala Red Light District or a Looter Shooter. 

Of course, that would involve reading the instructions - which not everyone is into...... I won’t touch that stereotype as its not always accurate...

Alternately, creating a direct-path for males *looking* for those things might also serve to keep them engaged?

SL has plenty of males who are not exclusive sex-tourists or First Person Shooter junkies, but I mention those to things because I get asked where to find by the occasional wandering dude......

Alternately, it may just be possible that Second Life appeals more broadly to feminine and feminine-adjacent personalities?

Hey, I do like my pencil-skirt collection.......

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4 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:

This is totally not my experience at all. I am a man and have been using a male avatar since 2006.

Talking to people isn't hard if you engage with them in local chat first. Get involved in the active conversation. If there is no active conversation, the problem isn't that you're male, it's that you're in the wrong place. And if your goal is to pick up women, then "Second Life" is probably the wrong place.

And that, I think, is part of the reason that SL fails for many men; because they come here with unrealistic expectations of SL as a dating service. It is a really terrible dating service, because the majority of women are not using it as a dating service at all.

Another thing SL is (now) bad at, is making money. If your expectation is to make SL your sole source of income, well that ain't gonna happen now, unless you are already a 3d-modeller to professional standard.

Why does SL work for me, when it doesn't work for other men? Well to begin with, my reason for coming to SL was the music, and that's why I am still here, 13 years later. Music is one of the things that SL continues to do well. Also, I am not and have never been a gamer, so I have never compared SL against the quality or content of any other game. I think most men who come to SL do so because they think it's another game, and they are inevitably disappointed.

I am not in SL for dating reason. I am here to talk with people of everywhere in the planet.  Interesting meeting people from russia or Argentina or Algeria etc.. Then lerning english then learning how to build then simply to have friend and talk. Yes It is very hard for me. I get blocked mute and simply ignored. But I think it is normal because I don't know how to play then I try harder and I am learning with my mistake. 

 

Most people are not helful or just friendly. It is just my experience.

 

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9 minutes ago, Lureo said:

I am not in SL for dating reason. I am here to talk with people of everywhere in the planet.  Interesting meeting people from russia or Argentina or Algeria etc.. Then lerning english then learning how to build then simply to have friend and talk. Yes It is very hard for me. I get blocked mute and simply ignored. But I think it is normal because I don't know how to play then I try harder and I am learning with my mistake.

If these are the things you want, you should start with the educational side of SL . There are places offering English classes, you'll likely meet people there from other countries.

Try a new-residents centre like Helping Haven or Caledon Oxbridge, they might be able to put you in touch with places offering such classes. They can also help you with learning to build. 

As for finding people unfriendly when you IM them, that is because you are using IM rather than local chat. IM tends to be more a thing between people who are already friends, and many people are extremely untrusting of IMs from people they don't already know.

Make friends with them in local chat first. IMs are for later. 

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22 minutes ago, Lureo said:

I am not in SL for dating reason. I am here to talk with people of everywhere in the planet.  Interesting meeting people from russia or Argentina or Algeria etc.. Then lerning english then learning how to build then simply to have friend and talk. Yes It is very hard for me. I get blocked mute and simply ignored. But I think it is normal because I don't know how to play then I try harder and I am learning with my mistake. 

 

Most people are not helful or just friendly. It is just my experience.

 

Demo, Demo, Demo. A Profile is the Demo of the Character and it helps to read it (really reading it) to see if there is any compatibility. You are not contacting just everyone in RL also i am sure. Many people are not compatible. Also, don't try so hard or harder as it's a good way to piss people off who just do not want. 

In case me IMing anyone, i have read their profiles and found something which interests me at the person and then i write something 'personal' ... and give them time to read my profile :) (which is atm a bit more empty as it used to be) and in case there is a nice conversation evolving, we can couple dance, otherwise we won't do that. Btw, i prefer IMs in higher traffic places as i have open chat usually covered by a notecard or a pic .. it's to much and to fast for me.)

As for the clothes for us men ............ there is a *****load of really great clothes available for us. I hear the women i am with constantly moaning because the textures are better and the clothes are much more interesting and detailed. 

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I always use IM because some people me including do not follow local public chat. 

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