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Need help on computers that can handle SL

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Hello - first off I'm extremely illiterate & dumb when it comes to computer technical things. Like graphics cards that can & can't handle secondlife.

I currently use a 10 yr old windows 7 & logging onto SL is nearly impossible on this thing. I'm currently shopping around for a new computer but I can't afford a really expensive (tho I wish I could!)

I looked at one but I'm sure if the specifications are adequate for SL. So I need help with this. I keep hearing that secondlife loves Nvidia graphics cards?

Here are the specifications of one I'm looking at and I'd like to know if this computer has what it takes to run Secondlife from:

 

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First of all, please set your price limit. 

Second, you don't want a workstation, but a somewhat gaming capable machine. The CPU and the amount of RAM isn't a bad choice here, but the overall setup gives the impression of an office / multimedia setup.

Do you need any other components along with the computer itself? What monitor are you currently using, its screen resolution and the connection options are of interest.

 

Quote

I keep hearing that secondlife loves Nvidia graphics cards?

Not everything you hear in SL is true... in short: it doesn't matter. There are good options on either side, Nvidia or AMD.

Just stay away from integrated graphics, like the listed Intel Graphics, if you want somewhat pretty graphics.

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3 hours ago, dancingdelilah said:

I looked at one but I'm sure if the specifications are adequate for SL. So I need help with this. I keep hearing that secondlife loves Nvidia graphics cards?

SL will use either or. It’s an ancient myth that SL doesn’t like AMD cards. Note the people who mention that also use the name “ATI” which was bought out by AMD 13 years ago...

The pavilion is a good choice if you want something new and simple. But mainly just because it’s a prebuilt and will do what you want out of the box.
On a purely specs basis there are a few points to mention:

-The i5 8400 is now a generation out of date, Intel is on 9th gen, there’s an i5 9400. And 10th gen is rolling out soon.

-Intel vs AMD processors right now is kind of weak, for the price of an i5 8400 you could get an AMD Ryzen 3600 which is also a 6 core but entirely outclasses the i5 8400

In fact, if you can, filter those pavilions by Ryzen. There’s a lot of them out there, pavilion gaming machines, Dell Inspirons are the same thing, right now Intel is severely behind and AMD is plain and simple superior on the market and they are the better choice. No fangirling, there’s data to back that up.

-12gb of ram means single channel or very low speed memory, ram doesn’t come in 6gb sticks, ddr4 comes in a minimum of a 4gb dimm. So they either have three 4gb sticks or one 4 and one 8. The way memory controllers work would limit that kind of configuration at minimum speed (2133mhz) or single channel. Both of those are bad and it’s a point where quantity is not valuable. Ram speed is actually starting to matter these days.

-HD 630 isn’t bad but it’s just about “adequate” for SL, more graphically intensive spaces will tank your framerate. ALM and all those fancy settings will be pretty much exclusively for sub 1fps photos if you’re anywhere other than a social island.

-These home prebuilts have extremely low end and weak power supplies that greatly limit future Upgrades.

If you have a budget in mind I can help find an ideal system. These basic pavilions aren’t bad machines by any means but they’re not the best choice if you know how to deal hunt.

Something like a current gen Ryzen Inspiron + some kind of entry level video card would be great and probably not much more expensive.

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Intel graphics aren't great for SL, and they won't get better with age. I would get something with an Nvidia card, or that I could put an Nvidia card in. I don't know what model you're looking at, but going by the dimensions, I don't think there's much expandability there.

As for AMD vs Nvidia, in my experience Second Life does favor Nvidia. 

Edited by Lyssa Greymoon

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38 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

don't know what model you're looking at, but going by the dimensions, I don't think there's much expandability there.

It’s not advertising being the all in one model so the only other option is the mini tower. Micro atx, fairly normal. 
With that config it’s a variant of the Pavilion 590.

It’s super proprietary inside with its special psu and motherboard but it’s still equipped with a PCIe x16 slot and room for a fairly large gpu.

Of course the problem would be the psu. These are stock equipped the same but there’s an i5 model with a 1050ti and the AMD model offers an RX 550 (pic related). They all use the same psu so a slot power 75w card like a 1050ti would be reasonable.

However it would be expensive to buy one without a gpu and then just add a gpu, even used, when you could build an overall better system from the ground up for substantially cheaper. Building it yourself or paying your local nerd 50 bucks to put it together for you.

1D87463E-0C86-4CBB-B79D-D914989C1B17.jpeg

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7 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

First of all, please set your price limit. 

Second, you don't want a workstation, but a somewhat gaming capable machine. The CPU and the amount of RAM isn't a bad choice here, but the overall setup gives the impression of an office / multimedia setup.

Do you need any other components along with the computer itself? What monitor are you currently using, its screen resolution and the connection options are of interest.

 

Not everything you hear in SL is true... in short: it doesn't matter. There are good options on either side, Nvidia or AMD.

Just stay away from integrated graphics, like the listed Intel Graphics, if you want somewhat pretty graphics.

Hi - Thanks for your reply. I am currently using an HP all in one windows 7 64 bit & my graphics card on this computer is AMD Raedon HD 6320. It's actually 10 years old so I will have to buy a monitor as well as a tower. I joined SL 6 years ago and have been using this AIO to log on. But it's gotten more & more laggy & the FPS on my current computer struggle to reach 7!!  Nothing rezzes completely either. My face will finally Rez and come in clear but my clothing & everything else is a blurry mess. Then my face blurs & my clothing finally rezzes nice and crisp. It's a nightmare!

I honestly cant afford a pricey computer. I've been researching computers for a month now and I'm more confused than ever. I even looked up SL requirements which confused me even more since I don't understand Intel or ATI or AMD. And SL requirements also lists graphics cards that are not compatible with SL  like Itel chipsets less than  945 etc. I really am completely lost on technical computer stuff.  The gaming systems I looked at were pretty pricey tho I did find an HP gaming computer that's within my budget but it has less RAM (8 GB), less CPU Cache (4) etc than the previous computer specifications I shared.

 I want to get something that's insufficient to run SL on but I'm totally lost on what to buy within my budget.

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7 hours ago, cheesecurd said:

SL will use either or. It’s an ancient myth that SL doesn’t like AMD cards. Note the people who mention that also use the name “ATI” which was bought out by AMD 13 years ago...

The pavilion is a good choice if you want something new and simple. But mainly just because it’s a prebuilt and will do what you want out of the box.
On a purely specs basis there are a few points to mention:

-The i5 8400 is now a generation out of date, Intel is on 9th gen, there’s an i5 9400. And 10th gen is rolling out soon.

-Intel vs AMD processors right now is kind of weak, for the price of an i5 8400 you could get an AMD Ryzen 3600 which is also a 6 core but entirely outclasses the i5 8400

In fact, if you can, filter those pavilions by Ryzen. There’s a lot of them out there, pavilion gaming machines, Dell Inspirons are the same thing, right now Intel is severely behind and AMD is plain and simple superior on the market and they are the better choice. No fangirling, there’s data to back that up.

-12gb of ram means single channel or very low speed memory, ram doesn’t come in 6gb sticks, ddr4 comes in a minimum of a 4gb dimm. So they either have three 4gb sticks or one 4 and one 8. The way memory controllers work would limit that kind of configuration at minimum speed (2133mhz) or single channel. Both of those are bad and it’s a point where quantity is not valuable. Ram speed is actually starting to matter these days.

-HD 630 isn’t bad but it’s just about “adequate” for SL, more graphically intensive spaces will tank your framerate. ALM and all those fancy settings will be pretty much exclusively for sub 1fps photos if you’re anywhere other than a social island.

-These home prebuilts have extremely low end and weak power supplies that greatly limit future Upgrades.

If you have a budget in mind I can help find an ideal system. These basic pavilions aren’t bad machines by any means but they’re not the best choice if you know how to deal hunt.

Something like a current gen Ryzen Inspiron + some kind of entry level video card would be great and probably not much more expensive.

Hi - thank for replying. I have a second computer in mind that more money but within my budget. It's an HP gaming system and I'm listing the specifications below. 

I ordered a computer from Dell one time & I had to "build" it myself. They asked me if I wanted this or did I want that. I had no idea what they were talking about so I just said OK  yeah I'll take that.

Needless to say I'm illiterate when it comes to the inner working & brains of a computer & ended up with a Windows Vista Home Basic that was pretty crappy!! 😁  So I prefer to buy the prebuilt computers. 

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6 hours ago, cheesecurd said:

It’s not advertising being the all in one model so the only other option is the mini tower. Micro atx, fairly normal. 
With that config it’s a variant of the Pavilion 590.

It’s super proprietary inside with its special psu and motherboard but it’s still equipped with a PCIe x16 slot and room for a fairly large gpu.

Of course the problem would be the psu. These are stock equipped the same but there’s an i5 model with a 1050ti and the AMD model offers an RX 550 (pic related). They all use the same psu so a slot power 75w card like a 1050ti would be reasonable.

However it would be expensive to buy one without a gpu and then just add a gpu, even used, when you could build an overall better system from the ground up for substantially cheaper. Building it yourself or paying your local nerd 50 bucks to put it together for you.

1D87463E-0C86-4CBB-B79D-D914989C1B17.jpeg

Hi-  the first computer specifications I shared  is not an all in one. And yes it does say a mini tower. I found a second computer I have my eye on and its an HP Gaming Desktop, AMD Ryzen ( 3LA91AA#ABA) and to be honest I have no idea what any of this tech stuff means.

So I thought I'd share on the forums computer specifications  I'm currently looking at that's within my budget. My current computer is an HP All In One but its 10 years old and cant handle Second Life. I can still log on but my InWorld experience is horrid, constant crashing, nothing stays rezzed & my FPS putrid - 7 at best. At first I thought low FPS was a good thing!! That's how illiterate I am when it comes to computer tech stuff. When saw people list their FPS at 45 and up I thought Wow.....and mine struggle to reach 7...haha. Anyway I just want my new computer to be able to handle SL but I don't want to end up buying something that's no better than what I'm using now. I can't even enable shadows on my current computer without crashing. 

Edited by dancingdelilah
About the AMD Ryzen 3600

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5 hours ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

Intel graphics aren't great for SL, and they won't get better with age. I would get something with an Nvidia card, or that I could put an Nvidia card in. I don't know what model you're looking at, but going by the dimensions, I don't think there's much expandability there.

As for AMD vs Nvidia, in my experience Second Life does favor Nvidia. 

Hi - That's what I keep hearing. SL does best with Nvidia. So far everything I've looked at doesn't have Nvidia but I've mainly been looking at HP computers. I looked at Nvidia graphic at Best Buy and some of those run $200 and up just for the kits to build your own computer. I know nothing about building a computer which is why I prefer to buy prebuilt systems. I'm not sure if Secondlife has updated their System requirements page recently. On Strawberry Singh blog she suggested we view the system requirements for SL and those requirements list 4 GB of memory is adequate and ITEL chipsets, ATI Raedon graphics cards  945  will also work.

The computers I'm currently looking at within my price range doesn't have Nvidia installed.  I've even had some suggest buying a refurbished computer since they go thru a rigorous overhaul and often work better than brand new ones and some often come with up to 3 year warranties. But at the same time I'm hesitant to go that route....

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2 hours ago, dancingdelilah said:

I even looked up SL requirements which confused me even more since I don't understand Intel or ATI or AMD. And SL requirements also lists graphics cards that are not compatible with SL  like Itel chipsets less than  945 etc. I really am completely lost on technical computer stuff

The system requirements page is super out of date and not recommended to be used to choose a system. 
As mentioned, ATI doesn’t exist anymore. They made video cards and were purchased by AMD ages ago. 945gm is an on-motherboard Intel video chip from 2006. Its not relevant. 

AMD makes processors and video cards. Nvidia makes video cards. Intel makes processors. Intel and AMD have integrated graphics built into their processors. Intel HD 620/630 for example is intels current gen integrated video. AMD doesn’t have integrated video in every processor but instead makes APUs which are a cpu with integrated video features, speaking in context of modern hardware only they are a lot more powerful than an equivalent Intel integrated graphics option. 

Pick up the option with the RX 550 as it’s substantially better graphically than either the integrated Intel HD 630 or just the Ryzen 3 2200g option on its own.

Even if you’re stepping down to an i3 instead of an i5. Worst case that can be upgraded fairly easily down the line. Though I think there’s a pavilion option with the Ryzen 5 2600 or Ryzen 3 1200 or 2200g that has an RX 550. That would be the ideal choice in this price range.

 

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20 minutes ago, dancingdelilah said:

The computers I'm currently looking at within my price range doesn't have Nvidia installed.  I've even had some suggest buying a refurbished computer since they go thru a rigorous overhaul and often work better than brand new ones and some often come with up to 3 year warranties. But at the same time I'm hesitant to go that route....

If you wanted to do that, off lease office PCs are dirt cheap and there are people who do mass resale of them on eBay. Big sellers, reputable, lots of options.

example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Quad-Core-i5-Optiplex-7010-Desktop-Computer-PC-Gaming-Workstation-Windows/223634951430?hash=item3411ae8d06:m:mshPKc0hjYf8y_5J3oPTkrQ

Its an optiplex 7010, 3rd gen Intel i5 so definitely a bit old but still adequate, especially for a game like SL. And has options for drives, ram and OS choice, as well as a modern gpu option they install for you.

So configured like this:

3EED8FE1-5C49-4ACE-8398-98C0DC5EF672.thumb.png.8411b65f03f3e71385ccb46001ea25da.png

16gb of ram, a 120gb SSD with Windows 10 installed, and a 1tb hard drive for mass storage, as well as an AMD RX 560.

390$ is definitely a bit more expensive than buying the parts individually to retrofit your own barebones original optiplex 7010 but they have a margin to make and that’s how they profit. This plus a monitor, keyboard and mouse would make for a cheap system to run.

As mentioned though you could also just get a basic 7010, and put in your own choice of video card (provided it’s low power) and add more ram or choose your drives and install the os yourself. Which might be a bit cheaper if you were to deal hunt.

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3 minutes ago, cheesecurd said:

The system requirements page is super out of date and not recommended to be used to choose a system. 
As mentioned, ATI doesn’t exist anymore. They made video cards and were purchased by AMD ages ago. 945gm is an on-motherboard Intel video chip from 2006. Its not relevant. 

AMD makes processors and video cards. Nvidia makes video cards. Intel makes processors. Intel and AMD have integrated graphics built into their processors. Intel HD 620/630 for example is intels current gen integrated video. AMD doesn’t have integrated video in every processor but instead makes APUs which are a cpu with integrated video features, speaking in context of modern hardware only they are a lot more powerful than an equivalent Intel integrated graphics option. 

Pick up the option with the RX 550 as it’s substantially better graphically than either the integrated Intel HD 630 or just the Ryzen 3 2200g option on its own.

Even if you’re stepping down to an i3 instead of an i5. Worst case that can be upgraded fairly easily down the line. Though I think there’s a pavilion option with the Ryzen 5 2600 or Ryzen 3 1200 or 2200g that has an RX 550. That would be the ideal choice in this price range.

 

Thank you cheesecurd!! I figured the SL system requirements was probably out of date. In an earlier reply you mentioned  AMD Ryzen 3600 and the 2nd computer I have my eye on is an HP gaming with Ryzon. I listed its specifications on here also. It's within my budget so I think I'll go with that one. 

It's only 4 GB of ram but I think I can add more memory if needed. I've been looking at new computers for over a month now & the more I looked the more confused I got. So I'm glad I came to the forums for help. I nearly gave up and was going to buy the 1st computer I looked at.

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26 minutes ago, cheesecurd said:

If you wanted to do that, off lease office PCs are dirt cheap and there are people who do mass resale of them on eBay. Big sellers, reputable, lots of options.

example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Quad-Core-i5-Optiplex-7010-Desktop-Computer-PC-Gaming-Workstation-Windows/223634951430?hash=item3411ae8d06:m:mshPKc0hjYf8y_5J3oPTkrQ

Its an optiplex 7010, 3rd gen Intel i5 so definitely a bit old but still adequate, especially for a game like SL. And has options for drives, ram and OS choice, as well as a modern gpu option they install for you.

So configured like this:

3EED8FE1-5C49-4ACE-8398-98C0DC5EF672.thumb.png.8411b65f03f3e71385ccb46001ea25da.png

16gb of ram, a 120gb SSD with Windows 10 installed, and a 1tb hard drive for mass storage, as well as an AMD RX 560.

390$ is definitely a bit more expensive than buying the parts individually to retrofit your own barebones original optiplex 7010 but they have a margin to make and that’s how they profit. This plus a monitor, keyboard and mouse would make for a cheap system to run.

As mentioned though you could also just get a basic 7010, and put in your own choice of video card (provided it’s low power) and add more ram or choose your drives and install the os yourself. Which might be a bit cheaper if you were to deal hunt.

I never even thought of checking out Ebay. I have been told to look into refurbished computer systems. One refurbished gaming system I looked at came with a 3 year warranty. And I read some of the reviews from those who bought refurbished computers and the majority were positive reviews. I was hesitant to go that route but I think maybe I'll consider it.

The second computer I Shared Specifications on - The HP gaming with Ryzon 3-2200G quad core  was about $600 on sale. That doesn't include the monitor. and then I thought maybe I should wait till Black Friday... 

But hey, if I can get one cheaper of course I'm all for that! I'm gonna go check out Ebay...

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46 minutes ago, dancingdelilah said:

I never even thought of checking out Ebay. I have been told to look into refurbished computer systems. One refurbished gaming system I looked at came with a 3 year warranty. And I read some of the reviews from those who bought refurbished computers and the majority were positive reviews. I was hesitant to go that route but I think maybe I'll consider it.

The second computer I Shared Specifications on - The HP gaming with Ryzon 3-2200G quad core  was about $600 on sale. That doesn't include the monitor. and then I thought maybe I should wait till Black Friday... 

But hey, if I can get one cheaper of course I'm all for that! I'm gonna go check out Ebay...

 

1 hour ago, cheesecurd said:

If you wanted to do that, off lease office PCs are dirt cheap and there are people who do mass resale of them on eBay. Big sellers, reputable, lots of options.

example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Quad-Core-i5-Optiplex-7010-Desktop-Computer-PC-Gaming-Workstation-Windows/223634951430?hash=item3411ae8d06:m:mshPKc0hjYf8y_5J3oPTkrQ

Its an optiplex 7010, 3rd gen Intel i5 so definitely a bit old but still adequate, especially for a game like SL. And has options for drives, ram and OS choice, as well as a modern gpu option they install for you.

So configured like this:

3EED8FE1-5C49-4ACE-8398-98C0DC5EF672.thumb.png.8411b65f03f3e71385ccb46001ea25da.png

16gb of ram, a 120gb SSD with Windows 10 installed, and a 1tb hard drive for mass storage, as well as an AMD RX 560.

390$ is definitely a bit more expensive than buying the parts individually to retrofit your own barebones original optiplex 7010 but they have a margin to make and that’s how they profit. This plus a monitor, keyboard and mouse would make for a cheap system to run.

As mentioned though you could also just get a basic 7010, and put in your own choice of video card (provided it’s low power) and add more ram or choose your drives and install the os yourself. Which might be a bit cheaper if you were to deal hunt.

I just checked this one out on Ebay from your link. I even clicked the Nvidia graphics and it raised the price about $50 bucks. It currently has 140 watching & only 2 left. Checked out this sellers feedback and all positive from others who bought from them.

So yeah - I added the $390 one to my cart. I prefer a prebuilt since I don't understand the tech stuff. My cousin has bought refurbished computers in the past & has always received decent computers. And like I said I researched the Pros & Cons of buying refurbished and the Pros outweighed the Cons. From my research on refurbished computers, even a brand new computer that someone ordered but send back has to be sold as refurbished/used even tho it never was actually used.

Thanks cheesecurd!! You have helped me tremendously.

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Unless the Optiplex comes with a couple hundred dollar bills in it, $440 for a 7010 is insane. Slow down and do some more research. It'll pay off.

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just on the AMD RX560 graphics card.  Is about equivalent to a NVidia GTX1050 performance wise over an aggregate of 3D games.   Lots of people run SL on these cards and get reasonable FPS that is easily playable for them on the Recommended Settings. Turning shadows off when a place is super busy

edit ps. As mentioned above the AMD vs NVidia was more about ATI vs NVidia back in the day. The AMD RX+ cards made today are fine for SL

Edited by Mollymews
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1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

just on the AMD RX560 graphics card.  Is about equivalent to a NVidia GTX1050 performance wise over an aggregate of 3D games.   Lots of people run SL on these cards and get reasonable FPS that is easily playable for them on the Recommended Settings. Turning shadows off when a place is super busy

edit ps. As mentioned above the AMD vs NVidia was more about ATI vs NVidia back in the day. The AMD RX+ cards made today are fine for SL

Thanks for your reply. I just want something reasonable with decent FPS, decent RAM & graphics card. I wanted to be able to turn on shadows etc for photos and such. 

I don't need a state of the art gaming system. Secondlife  is the only "game" I really enjoy and like to log on to frequently. I'm so thankful for all of you helping me out on this!! Without your help I most likely would have bought a computer that couldn't handle SL. Thanks so much for your help.

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2 hours ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

Unless the Optiplex comes with a couple hundred dollar bills in it, $440 for a 7010 is insane. Slow down and do some more research. It'll pay off.

Thanks for the video. I'm checking it out now.

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should mention that the last 2 numbers are quite important.  With AMD RX cards don't go below x50. Same with NVidia, don't go below x50. Numbers like x40 and less are 3D graphics capable but they are more designed for business workstations where we only need simple animated 3D objects in presentations. Which is also the target market for Intel Integrated Graphics

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5 hours ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

Unless the Optiplex comes with a couple hundred dollar bills in it, $440 for a 7010 is insane. Slow down and do some more research. It'll pay off.

It would be way cheaper to piece one together, probably saving about 100$. More if you hunt locally on Craigslist or whatever or picked up the optiplex or something equivalent at a local auction.

But, it’s not the worst of prices for something like that, especially considering the configuration. 
It’s cheaper than the modern pavilion, and while op loses out on a more modern processor they get an SSD, more ram quantity (though at a loss of ram speed) and a substantially better gpu.

Itll play SL well and even has a bit of an upgrade path to an i7 3770, new psu and much higher end gpu in the future, should they want to learn how to replace those parts. By that point those kinds of upgrades would be dirt cheap and worthwhile too.

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I just finished watching video  "How To Build A Gaming PC in 2019." I still haven't picked out a PC yet & I'm still shopping around. Tho the videos have helped me understand a bit more about the technical computer stuff, I still don't feel confident enough to "Build" my own system.  But I am closer to picking out a computer. I have 2 or 3 in mind including on Ebay. I'm hoping I'll have one that's decent and one that will handle SL. I don't need an expensive  computer for heavy gaming - some of the ones I've looked at run $2000 and up which is way out of my budget!  

The ones I am looking at currently are hopefully adequate for SL. I've even taken note on everyone's feedback to me!! 

I got great tips from all of you so Thanks for everyone helping me out!  I really appreciate the help.

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Don't build a Gaming PC for SL - if you want to use it solely for SL a medium tier GPU with 4GB GPU RAM or higher will suffice (unless you run many alts at same time maybe). What you want for SL is the highest frequency CPU processing power thrown at a single thread you can afford.

Many GPU eye candy stuff available to modern games is not used by SL at all. So a gaming PC tailored to today's needs will miss the target.

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