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Lag in Bellisseria *Advice*

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8 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

There are good and bad sculpts. 

This is truer than true. And sculpties do not cause lag, the scripts inside them can, though. As for good and bad, the only bad thing about a sculpty is when the shape is not well-defined, bad textures, or other lag in the region causes the sculptie shape-texture to load slowly.

6 hours ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

I have a few Bandit/TMS boats, and whilst certainly they are good quality and perform fine with region crossings- none of them come close to matching the old sculpt boat I have.. though I do think that it has more to do with the scripts than anything else.  Regardless, I love that boat and don't want it taken away :P 

I concur with this, my favorite car and boat are both sculpty and perform better on region crossing than any other I have ever seen (same time delay as if walking or flying across with zero attachments at all; near instantaneous).

I've been in SL a few days and my experience leads me to prefer good old PRIMS aover anything else, as long as it is a great build (I have seen prim-based creations that look better than mesh counterparts) - I will spend the extra LI if it's worth it because prims do not create lag and rez almost instantly (because they are built into your viewer and do not need to be downloaded) - Go ahead - try it: Rez a few prims in your home, be sure they are in view when you logout for the night. When you login the next day, those prims will appear almost instantly while you wait for the rest of the world, including the house that surrounds you, to rez.

I'll take a prim over a sculpty. But I'll take a sculpty over mesh if it's well-done and many are. Remember that a sculpty is just a twisted prim; a sphere that is reshaped by the sculpty texture. Many sculpties, therefore, do not create lag and still can rez faster or as fast as most mesh objects because it is only the texture that twists a shape that is already there. A well-optimized sculpty-texture will win a download race against a mesh object because the mesh object has to download the mesh shape data then then textures to wrap it in. 

Mesh creates lag, not just the scripts in them, but the actual model. If it is too complex (which many are) then your computer is working overtime to turn all that data into shapes and all that data must be downloaded, then the textures to wrap them in, also unoptimized for general Internet use, much less Second Life grid. So there is the majority of your static (non-avatar-crowd) Bellisseria lag. The best, fastest solution is to turn your graphic settings DOWN, starting with your draw distance.

Then, if you have the nerd-bug, you can try the tips and tricks mentioned above. They are good tips and tricks and they work, but perhaps a bit on the extra-effort technical side of things that should be the after-resort, not the first resort.

Edited by Alyona Su
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I've been trying to avoid sculpties in Belli, tho I agree that well-designed ones seem no more laborious to rez than mesh.  Oddly, in my experience older graphics cards seem happier with sculpty landscapes than mesh ones.  Perhaps that's because there are so few sculpties that are fully materials-capable, and materials consumes more graphics memory?

However, in Belli I've found one area where I really have to use sculpties, which is ground cover.  I really like to see 3D grass or grass & flowers over the raw terrain texture, even if the terrain texture is grass.  But the mesh grasses I've found are on the order of 5 LI for 5-7 meters of coverage, so I've only used mesh grass once in Belli.  Sculptie 3D ground covers are SO much more efficient, tho of course they don't look quite as well, and are not animated.   Could someone make less dense mesh grasses that are lower LI per sq meter?  Probably, and I'd love to hear about it if you've found some.

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10 hours ago, Nika Talaj said:

I've been trying to avoid sculpties in Belli, tho I agree that well-designed ones seem no more laborious to rez than mesh.  Oddly, in my experience older graphics cards seem happier with sculpty landscapes than mesh ones.  Perhaps that's because there are so few sculpties that are fully materials-capable, and materials consumes more graphics memory?

However, in Belli I've found one area where I really have to use sculpties, which is ground cover.  I really like to see 3D grass or grass & flowers over the raw terrain texture, even if the terrain texture is grass.  But the mesh grasses I've found are on the order of 5 LI for 5-7 meters of coverage, so I've only used mesh grass once in Belli.  Sculptie 3D ground covers are SO much more efficient, tho of course they don't look quite as well, and are not animated.   Could someone make less dense mesh grasses that are lower LI per sq meter?  Probably, and I'd love to hear about it if you've found some.

The reason sculpts are less lag than mesh is that a sculpty is a single prim; it's a sphere that is morphed into a shape. All prims are built directly into your viewer, so there is very little computing power needed to rez and draw them on your screen; most of the heavy-lifting is done already (built into the viewer), and they do support materials, by the way. It's just that most were created before that option really existed or people understand texturing.

Mesh, on the other hand, does not exist in the viewer; all the data must be downloaded, and then your computer must assemble it before it can apply the textures. With prims, it's small data that says, "use this prim, then make this shape from it" - since all that already exists inside the viewer, the computer doesn't have to think herd to assemble it; it's preassembled.

Here is where FPS lag comes from: For each mesh object, the computer must take the raw data, create the shape, then texture it. For each and every "face" on that mesh. Then it must do that for each mesh within your draw distance, 30 times a second. Or 60 times a second. Or whatever frame rate you have going. So if there is too much mesh within your draw distance, your computer becomes overwhelmed trying to construct then texture alllllllll that data. It cannot keep up. So it works as best it can, and when there's too much is it takes longer to do; it's going fast, but the delay between each frame is slow (low) frames per second.

Now consider this: Most of mainland is still created using prims or sculpts because mesh is still a relatively new thing. So you can set your draw distance way up to 256, 512, some go higher, and you can get away with it. But Bellisseria is 95%, more likely 99.99% all mesh! The entire continent, everything on it, other than user-rezzed. Think of what your poor computer is trying to do whenever you're anywhere on Bellisseria.

Then add the stuff people are razzing in their homes, the unoptimized, poorly-created stuff, like all those little knick-knack decorations, all using 1024 pixel textures where a 96-pixel texture would suffice, etc. Even if you do not cam into another's home, all that stuff is still rezzed and created and managed by your graphics card.

On top of all that, there is the texturing issue. Want to have near zero lag, even in Bellisseria? Turn off Basic Shaders and see what happens. You'd think you are on IBM's Super Computer. The difference in performance, even with all that mesh around, is amazing.

This is why turning down draw distance is imperative in Bellisseria.

High performance (eating) and gorgeous graphics (cake) are what we'd all love to have simultaneously, but we cannot have our cake and eat it, too. It must be a balance between each of these. So whenever someone complains about lag (almost always referring to frame rates) - they must turn down their graphic settings. it's a matter of priorities: pick one and suffer the other. Because it is near impossible to have both unless you're willing to spend the money for the right equipment to get it.

Footnote: As for sculpts, here's an example I want to share: This is the car I mention earlier; I love this car. it is made with sculpts (and uses materials): https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Manjis-Ise-Tan-v-201-Pink-White-Box/4378325

AndI beseech you to take 5 minutes to see it in world (even try a demo: best car-handling in SL): http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Hakata/90/44/24

 

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1 hour ago, Alyona Su said:

Footnote: As for sculpts, here's an example I want to share: This is the car I mention earlier; I love this car. it is made with sculpts (and uses materials): https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Manjis-Ise-Tan-v-201-Pink-White-Box/4378325

AndI beseech you to take 5 minutes to see it in world (even try a demo: best car-handling in SL): http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Hakata/90/44/24

 

I have had this one on my wish list for some time because friends give it the same rave reviews that you give for the older car from the same maker. This one happens to be mesh. It's so cute, too! https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Manjis-TYPE-1-v-101-Box/12258109 

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2 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

AndI beseech you to take 5 minutes to see it in world (even try a demo: best car-handling in SL): http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Hakata/90/44/24

The only reason I've never tried that car is because I don't think that you can set any of this maker's vehicles to group.  Please comment if that's not the case!  Marketplace descriptions only refer to 'guest mode'.  If the scripting is similar to most boats' scripting, "guest mode" is when the owner explicity allows a passenger to drive during an outing.  My partner and I use a couple of alts, so vehicles that can be set to group are much more useful to us. 

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I have both the Type-360 (its a little Honda pick-up thing), and the super cute Type-1 (an Austin Healey Sprite). Not sure about the 360, but the Type-1 has a Group mode which will allow anyone in the same group to drive it. It also has an "Anyone" mode, which, as the name suggests, allows anyone to drive it ;)

To add to what Alyona said, Manji also have a mainland demo location in Hetrocera Atol, here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Burns/115/70/30

I'd suggest trying the cars out there, because you can drive on the linden roads  - that way you'll see how fantastic these cars are with region crossings.

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1 hour ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I have had this one on my wish list for some time because friends give it the same rave reviews that you give for the older car from the same maker. This one happens to be mesh. It's so cute, too! https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Manjis-TYPE-1-v-101-Box/12258109 

I have that one and I LOVE it. That one is mesh and has lots of customize options like a hard or soft rooftop and a couple other things.

1 hour ago, Nika Talaj said:

The only reason I've never tried that car is because I don't think that you can set any of this maker's vehicles to group.  Please comment if that's not the case!  Marketplace descriptions only refer to 'guest mode'.  If the scripting is similar to most boats' scripting, "guest mode" is when the owner explicity allows a passenger to drive during an outing.  My partner and I use a couple of alts, so vehicles that can be set to group are much more useful to us. 

You can set it to owner or everyone, no group-only option right now. But, because it's optional, I just set it to everyone and use this rezzer: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Vehicle-Sensor-Rezzer/17967895 - it only razzes a new one if the original is gone (if someone drives it away) and I set the timer to something like 60 minutes, just in case they decide to return it (then it won't rez a new one LOL) And it's not a "temp-rezzer" and is fully Bellisseria Covenant compliant!

38 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

I have both the Type-360 (its a little Honda pick-up thing), and the super cute Type-1 (an Austin Healey Sprite). Not sure about the 360, but the Type-1 has a Group mode which will allow anyone in the same group to drive it. It also has an "Anyone" mode, which, as the name suggests, allows anyone to drive it ;)

To add to what Alyona said, Manji also have a mainland demo location in Hetrocera Atol, here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Burns/115/70/30

I'd suggest trying the cars out there, because you can drive on the linden roads  - that way you'll see how fantastic these cars are with region crossings.

I have the 360 also (on this account) Hahaha. I *love* the way Manji's vehicles drive (so easy to control) and handle the Bellisseria roads (paved and dirt) like a dream with their tight curves and all.  As for region crossing: F*ING STUNNING. If there's a multi-region race, you'll win every time just for this aspect alone! (Unless you compete against another Manji! LOL)

Edited by Alyona Su
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42 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

I have both the Type-360 (its a little Honda pick-up thing), and the super cute Type-1 (an Austin Healey Sprite). Not sure about the 360, but the Type-1 has a Group mode which will allow anyone in the same group to drive it. It also has an "Anyone" mode, which, as the name suggests, allows anyone to drive it ;)

To add to what Alyona said, Manji also have a mainland demo location in Hetrocera Atol, here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Burns/115/70/30

I'd suggest trying the cars out there, because you can drive on the linden roads  - that way you'll see how fantastic these cars are with region crossings.

And I never though to mention: For all you Furries: there's even a Furry-specific roadster design! It is so CUTE I want one, even though I'm not a furry.

Edit: I found it LOL https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Manjis-CAT-7-v-10-Box/8499196

Edited by Alyona Su
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I'm having issues with Lag and I'm trying to figure it out. I got a camper and sometimes when I log in my frame rate is 3 or even 1.5,  if I relog sometimes it can go up to 15. I have blacklisted about every object that wasn't a camper or by the Lindens and I have searched for temp rezzed objects but there aren't any.

 

Is there anything else I can do? Because if it's going to be like this I am going to give up  

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38 minutes ago, MillyWH said:

I'm having issues with Lag and I'm trying to figure it out. I got a camper and sometimes when I log in my frame rate is 3 or even 1.5,  if I relog sometimes it can go up to 15. I have blacklisted about every object that wasn't a camper or by the Lindens and I have searched for temp rezzed objects but there aren't any.

 

Is there anything else I can do? Because if it's going to be like this I am going to give up  

Is the lag only at your camper and not elsewhere in SL that you go?  If so, then something about the region may be going on.  I think all regions get restarted weekly, so if there is a region issue the next restart would take care of it.  Also, if it is region specific, you could talk to Support - Live Chat during workdays or a ticket.  If all else fails and it is just that location, then I would likely abandon it and get something else.  

If the lag happens in many regions, then you need to check your settings and connection.

ETA:  Note that many of the Belli regions are more laggy simply because of all the stuff there

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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38 minutes ago, MillyWH said:

I'm having issues with Lag and I'm trying to figure it out. I got a camper and sometimes when I log in my frame rate is 3 or even 1.5,  if I relog sometimes it can go up to 15. I have blacklisted about every object that wasn't a camper or by the Lindens and I have searched for temp rezzed objects but there aren't any.

 

Is there anything else I can do? Because if it's going to be like this I am going to give up  

The best thing you can do is to review your graphic settings, perhaps create a Preset with a lower view distance. The main difference with Bellisseria as compared to the rest of the grid (some private regions notwithstanding) is that it is 99.43% all mesh. Mesh creates a huge load on your system as it tries to draw all those polygons and texture them and create a 3D image... as many times a second as it can handle.

Edited by Alyona Su
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41 minutes ago, MillyWH said:

I'm having issues with Lag and I'm trying to figure it out. I got a camper and sometimes when I log in my frame rate is 3 or even 1.5,  if I relog sometimes it can go up to 15. I have blacklisted about every object that wasn't a camper or by the Lindens and I have searched for temp rezzed objects but there aren't any.

 

Is there anything else I can do? Because if it's going to be like this I am going to give up  

Have you checked to see if it is laggy for you everywhere and not just the sim you live on?   If it is just your sim then it may be someone running some scripts that are the issue.   IF things are OK in other sims, them the upcoming (we think mega) release should give you an opportunity to move and find a better spot.   

 

Also notice if your framerate is much low in a certain direction. That can be a clue.  Patch also said (back when the first traditionals and houseboats were shown in a display) that the BOARDING sims also have a big effect on FPS.  So there is that also. Good luck.

 

Edit: Well LittleMe typed faster than I did (or started typing before LOL). 

 

 

Edited by Chic Aeon
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I haven't walked around much in Bellisseria because the lag has been so bad but in other sims it's not that bad unless it's really crowded or there are particle effects like falling snow. I dropped my draw distance down to the minimum and put my graphics on low and walked around and it stayed the same (I changed my graphics settings around at different points). If I keep my setting low-ish and my draw distance things get a lot better. It makes the view kind of ugly but for right now it seems to be working. I think I'll wait until another release and try moving then and see if I can have both a home and some sort of view

So despite what I did I couldn't feel comfortable looking at just basically nothing so I abandoned the land and tried again. Another camper poppped up but it's the kind that looks like a horse trailer and I did not like but I grabbed it, the lot was nice but I was back to 9 fps. I'm thinking the bigger issue is my computer and a Linden Home isn't going to work for me but I'll keep trying.

Edited by MillyWH
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2 hours ago, MillyWH said:

Another camper poppped up but it's the kind that looks like a horse trailer and I did not like but I grabbed it, the lot was nice but I was back to 9 fps. I'm thinking the bigger issue is my computer and a Linden Home isn't going to work for me but I'll keep trying.

The plot is the important thing not the type of camper. You can choose between eight different camper styles (and even turn them by 180 degrees) using the wooden post with the camper sign. Click on it (and also get the decoration package that is in there). Afterwards you can choose your colours via the home control next to the door.

 

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2 hours ago, MillyWH said:

Another camper poppped up but it's the kind that looks like a horse trailer and I did not like but I grabbed it, the lot was nice but I was back to 9 fps. I'm thinking the bigger issue is my computer and a Linden Home isn't going to work for me but I'll keep trying.

In addition to what Leora said -- What the camper/house/houseboat looks like on the dashboard land page does not dictate what you use.  Every single theme lets you control the exact style inworld via some mechanism (mailbox for Traditionals, life preserver for Houseboats, and wooden sign for Campers/Trailers).  If you want a camper/trailer, click it when one shows available on the land page and then go check out the plot.  

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I had NO IDEA that was how you could change them! Well crap I wish that was more explicit. Oh well lesson learned. I'll keep that in mind going forward.

 

Thanks for the info.

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I'm going to be honest I do not really read the SL wiki all that often.  The times I've tried to get information there the info was outdated or doesn't work for me because I'm using Firestorm. I did, however, go look at it at one point and never made it all the way down to the home controller being on the mailbox or the post or whatever because I didn't scroll all the way down. Also I did not see any post because I TP'd at the front entrance of the house, never knew to look for a post, thought the controller on the inside of the camper was everything that there was. Not to mention when my FPS was 1.5 or 6 I couldn't really move around and things weren't rezzing so I couldn't see them. Or if I did manage to see the post by the campers I thought it wa decoration 

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The information in the Linden Homes wiki site ( http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:New_Linden_Homes_2019 ) is always updated every time that we introduce a new theme, and you should check the House Controller on your parcel periodically for any updated add-ons and special features. The controls for your Linden Home all work the same way for any SL viewer, so it doesn't make any difference whether you are using the current Linden Lab viewer, a project viewer, or one of the third-party viewers like Firestorm.

EDIT: I should have also mentioned that an abbreviated version of the information from the Linden Homes wiki site is also in the Knowledge Base at 

 

Edited by Dyna Mole
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31 minutes ago, MillyWH said:

Not to mention when my FPS was 1.5 or 6 I couldn't really move around and things weren't rezzing so I couldn't see them.

Quite recently, I only had a dog of a PC to use most of the time.  Some things that worked for me:

> In Firestorm/World, set Show Friends Only.  Much more effective than setting complexity low.  If you are TPing into a new region where people are all setting up their parcels, this is a must.

> When visiting a new parcel, set draw distance to 40 or so

> Set your LOD slider in the Quick Preferences panel to 1.5  (you know, if you set this as low as 1 you'll still be able to see the camper, the land, and most Linden content)

> What sort of network are you on?  If broadband, set you network bandwidth in quick preferences to 1500.  If on Wireless, do a speedtest, and set your network bandwidth to 75% of the result, or 1200ish, whichever is lower

 

Edited by Nika Talaj
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4 hours ago, Nika Talaj said:

Quite recently, I only had a dog of a PC to use most of the time.  Some things that worked for me:

> In Firestorm/World, set Show Friends Only.  Much more effective than setting complexity low.  If you are TPing into a new region where people are all setting up their parcels, this is a must.

> When visiting a new parcel, set draw distance to 40 or so

> Set your LOD slider in the Quick Preferences panel to 1.5  (you know, if you set this as low as 1 you'll still be able to see the camper, the land, and most Linden content)

> What sort of network are you on?  If broadband, set you network bandwidth in quick preferences to 1500.  If on Wireless, do a speedtest, and set your network bandwidth to 75% of the result, or 1200ish, whichever is lower

 

My broadband was advertised as being 5 Mbps, but in reality I normally get around 2 Mbps.

Since textures and many other things now are delivered to your viewer by http fetching, those bandwidth settings are on a slow connection like mine actually limiting and deteriorating performance the higher they go. Setting my bandwidth settings in the viewer to 1200 for example would limit the bandwidth for textures to just 800. I have found turning the network bandwidth down to about 500 even below that improves things for me.

 

Edited by Aethelwine
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@Nika Talaj, @Aethelwine, thank you for those great tips, they've really worked for me!! Despite being in SL for so long, I couln't lately manage to have a better experience; after our move to a new place downtown, connection has been a nightmare.

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So I visited Bellisseria for the first time to see what the hype was about.

The lag was atrocious with 2 avs in the sim! So I flew to other ones and it was just as bad. Ending up crashing twice. Tp'ed home  and bam 100 fps no lag. Tped back waited 10 minutes for all to render and..still as laggy as a music concert with 60 ppl in the latest mesh. Computer is new med range gaming system and draw was around 120.   Given this thread I am guessing I aren't the only one experiencing a less than optimal experience. I'll keep my mainland.

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I have hardly LAG on Bellisseria and my computer is 6 years old. However my Firestorm Viewer is also optimally adjusted. ;)

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1 hour ago, Razzy Riggles said:

So I visited Bellisseria for the first time to see what the hype was about.

The lag was atrocious with 2 avs in the sim! So I flew to other ones and it was just as bad. Ending up crashing twice. Tp'ed home  and bam 100 fps no lag. Tped back waited 10 minutes for all to render and..still as laggy as a music concert with 60 ppl in the latest mesh. Computer is new med range gaming system and draw was around 120.   Given this thread I am guessing I aren't the only one experiencing a less than optimal experience. I'll keep my mainland.

Unfortunately some areas of Bellisseria are laggier/cause more of a performance hit than others you may see an FPS/performance boost if you drop your draw distance to 64, prior to tp-ing to Bellisseria seems to work better, stepping down your graphics to the next level down should help too

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