I really apologize for posting this, but...I hate life.

[roseelvira]

3 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I would have dearly loved having just one brother that was not afraid to be a bother to a younger sister.

yep and when they drink it gets worse ,,,,

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

You said earlier 

Could you please post a link to the page on that site that says that? 

The first thing i saw was "Treatment for mental illnesses usually consists of therapy, medication, or a combination of the two." 

I didn't see anything there about exercise being the number one thing... 

It doesn't say anything about exercise being the number one treatment. What it does say is this:

Quote

Self-help and Coping

There are a number of things people can do to help reduce the symptoms of depression. For many people, regular exercise helps create positive feeling and improve mood. Getting enough quality sleep on a regular basis, eating a healthy diet and avoiding alcohol (a depressant) can also help reduce symptoms of depression.

Note the subtitle says SELF Help, not PROFESSIONAL Help. 

Diet and exercise have always been the two most important things a person can do for themselves to improve their mental and physical health. Most of us know this and have known it for decades so we really don't need it thrown in our faces.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Beth Macbain]

4 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I didn't see anything there about exercise being the number one thing... 

In fact, after ctrl+Fing "exercise" had one single hit, and here is what NIMH has to say on that subject:

Quote

 

Beyond Treatment: Things You Can Do

Here are other tips that may help you or a loved one during treatment for depression:

• Try to be active and exercise.
• Set realistic goals for yourself.
• Try to spend time with other people and confide in a trusted friend or relative.
• Try not to isolate yourself, and let others help you.
• Expect your mood to improve gradually, not immediately.
• Postpone important decisions, such as getting married or divorced, or changing jobs until you feel better. Discuss decisions with others who know you well and have a more objective view of your situation.
• Continue to educate yourself about depression.

 

•  

Notice those important words there... "beyond treatment". Also "tips that may help", "during treatment". It says absolutely not one single word about exercise being a treatment for depression. 

[Seicher Rae]

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Some people just can't admit to being wrong. 

There's a lot of that out in the world and an epidemic of it online. Sadly there is no pill or even exercise that will fix that.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Seicher Rae

[Seicher Rae]

2 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

 

Beyond Treatment: Things You Can Do

Here are other tips that may help you or a loved one during treatment for depression:

• Try to be active and exercise.
• Set realistic goals for yourself.
• Try to spend time with other people and confide in a trusted friend or relative.
• Try not to isolate yourself, and let others help you.
• Expect your mood to improve gradually, not immediately.
• Postpone important decisions, such as getting married or divorced, or changing jobs until you feel better. Discuss decisions with others who know you well and have a more objective view of your situation.
• Continue to educate yourself about depression.

 

2 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

In fact, after ctrl+Fing "exercise" had one single hit, and here is what NIMH has to say on that subject:

•  

Notice those important words there... "beyond treatment". Also "tips that may help", "during treatment". It says absolutely not one single word about exercise being a treatment for depression. 

Notice that in the beyond treatment list, right along with "be active and exercise" is "educate yourself about depression." Some shouldn't cherry pick from the list.

ETA: The "some" who "shouldn't" is not Beth; it is just unfortunate how things are quoted.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Seicher Rae

[Selene Gregoire]

6 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

Notice that in the beyond treatment list, right along with "be active and exercise" is "educate yourself about depression." Some shouldn't cherry pick from the list.

 

They also shouldn't be making claims that exercise will cure depression when it is clearly stated that it only can help reduce the symptoms. Exercise can help but it is not a cure in and of itself for anything.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Sukubia Scarmon]

Oof. 

Medication can be a double edged sword, since, well.. it's complicated! It can be a lot of trial and error - first, we're a bit limited in our options due to the blood brain barrier not permiting a lot to go through it. Then the meds themselves take a while to act. Then there's the problem that you can get.. uh.. resistant after a while, and need a new adjustment of meds. So yeah. It's true that suicidal thoughts are a side effect for some people - in that case they need to change medication, and report that to their doctor. Overall, I think the benefits and potential benefits outweight the sideeffects by far. I myself have taken medication for a long time, but am now in a position where I don't have to. But the medication was important for me to get there in the first place, crucial even. It took the peaks off of, so to speak. 


What helped me most, was getting a good support network. I have assisted living, and twice a week I have lunch with other clients with various mental health illnesses, ranging from depression to paranoid shizophrenia, borderline and beyond. I cannot express how good it can feel to talk to people who absolutely and wholly understand you. No "have you tried... not being depressed?", no "Are you sure you aren't just a little sad?", no "lol you are just lazy!". People you can openly talk to, and who in turn, talk to you an give you another perspective on things. It can be exhilerating. 

Also, listening to happy music helps me sometimes in a not too severe depressive episode (Lemon Demon is my favorite for that!)

And I cut out toxic people in my life. Even family, if need be, and I'm done feeling guilty about that - but that takes a while to learn.
 

[Seicher Rae]

It's on topic if you squint, tilt your head, have weird mental processing, and are on the correct dosage:

 

I just thought it was funny (and I did think about what we've been talking about).

Edited November 12, 2019 by Seicher Rae

[JanuarySwan]

On 11/11/2019 at 2:44 PM, Selene Gregoire said:

Exercise can help but it is not a cure in and of itself for anything.

I think Jack LaLanne would think differently on that but Jack would include diet and exercise.  But, I think Joseph Pilates would definitely prove you wrong if he were still alive...although Joseph Pilates is still "alive" in many ways.  Physical therapy rehabilitation has helped me greatly.  I was slow at beginning my rehab and then really worked at it.  I don't need pills.  Not all people need pills.  That's a misnomer.   

Just wanted to say to the OP...hope you feel better soon!  

Love, 

Jan

Beth looks confused.  Jack LaLanne and Joseph Pilates have both passed away.  Jack LaLanne was nearly 100 years old when he passed away.  

Regarding Jospeh Pilates, his methods are taught world wide even after his death.  Pilates involves not only body but mind/body connection which improves both physical and mental health.  Pilates can also be used for physical rehab alone and one does not have to go into his mind/body connection aspect.   

Maybe I can explain a little more.  Joseph Pilates is considered the inventor of what is know today as physical therapy.  Physical therapy are exercises a person with an injury goes through in hopes of alleviating the pain and gaining strength.  A person with an injury can also be depressed due to the fact that an injury can cause a loss - a loss of the things they once were able to do or other losses that occur from a life-changing injury.  Thus, with Pilates, both physical and mental health are addressed.  Or, one can just choose the physical rehabilitation alone.  

Jack LaLanne started the first go to work gyms.  He was bulimic as a teenager and overcame it with diet and exercise.  

Edited November 14, 2019 by JanuarySwan

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

I think Jack LaLanne would think differently on that but Jack would include diet and exercise.  But, I think Joseph Pilates would definitely prove you wrong if he were still alive...although Joseph Pilates is still "alive" in many ways.  Physical therapy rehabilitation has helped me greatly.  I was slow at beginning my rehab and then really worked at it.  I don't need pills.  Not all people need pills.  That's a misnomer.   

Just wanted to say to the OP...hope you feel better soon!  

Love, 

Jan

Beth looks confused.  Jack LaLanne and Joseph Pilates have both passed away.  Jack LaLanne was nearly 100 years old when he passed away.  

Regarding Jospeh Pilates, his methods are taught world wide even after his death.  Pilates involves not only body but mind/body connection which improves both physical and mental health.  Pilates can also be used for physical rehab alone and one does not have to go into his mind/body connection aspect.   

Maybe I can explain a little more.  Joseph Pilates is considered the inventor of what is know today as physical therapy.  Physical therapy are exercises a person with an injury goes through in hopes of alleviating the pain and gaining strength.  A person with an injury can also be depressed due to the fact that an injury can cause a loss - a loss of the things they once were able to do or other losses that occur from a life-changing injury.  Thus, with Pilates, both physical and mental health are addressed.  Or, one can just choose the physical rehabilitation alone.  

Jack LaLanne started the first go to work gyms.  He was bulimic as a teenager and overcame it with diet and exercise.  

I grew up watching Jack's show in the 60s. Both my mother and myself worked out along with him.

You took what I said completely out of context. This thread is about mental illness, not physical injuries. I have never made any kind of statement saying exercise won't help physical injuries or any other physical health issue. I said it, by itself, is not a cure. You have to combine it with other things such as a balanced diet.

On 11/11/2019 at 2:44 PM, Selene Gregoire said:

They also shouldn't be making claims that exercise will cure depression when it is clearly stated that it only can help reduce the symptoms. Exercise can help but it is not a cure in and of itself for anything.

I suffer from TBI as well as a few other physical health issues. Exercise by itself will not cure TBI. 

I never said everyone needs to take pills to recover from any or all illnesses either. I threw the pain killers and muscle relaxers I was prescribed for adhesive capsulitis in my left shoulder in the garbage. Instead of letting myself be doped up for 2 or 3 years I placed myself under the care of an acupressurist and recovered 99% of movement in about 6 months. I had lost all movement in my left arm. I couldn't even hold a pen much less sign my name with one.

And since this form has become toxic for me, I don't think I'll be posting again.

[Tari Landar]

3 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

I think Jack LaLanne would think differently on that but Jack would include diet and exercise.  But, I think Joseph Pilates would definitely prove you wrong if he were still alive...although Joseph Pilates is still "alive" in many ways.  Physical therapy rehabilitation has helped me greatly.  I was slow at beginning my rehab and then really worked at it.  I don't need pills.  Not all people need pills.  That's a misnomer.   

Just wanted to say to the OP...hope you feel better soon!  

Love, 

Jan

Beth looks confused.  Jack LaLanne and Joseph Pilates have both passed away.  Jack LaLanne was nearly 100 years old when he passed away.  

Regarding Jospeh Pilates, his methods are taught world wide even after his death.  Pilates involves not only body but mind/body connection which improves both physical and mental health.  Pilates can also be used for physical rehab alone and one does not have to go into his mind/body connection aspect.   

Maybe I can explain a little more.  Joseph Pilates is considered the inventor of what is know today as physical therapy.  Physical therapy are exercises a person with an injury goes through in hopes of alleviating the pain and gaining strength.  A person with an injury can also be depressed due to the fact that an injury can cause a loss - a loss of the things they once were able to do or other losses that occur from a life-changing injury.  Thus, with Pilates, both physical and mental health are addressed.  Or, one can just choose the physical rehabilitation alone.  

Jack LaLanne started the first go to work gyms.  He was bulimic as a teenager and overcame it with diet and exercise.  

Re-read the quote you, yourself quoted. 

I am fairly certain that most people probably know who both of them are, or if not, can easily figure it out. I am positive that everyone reading knows what physical therapy is, or what it's used for, though, lol. The confusion over your comment-and if you read the rest of the thread, the entire belief that exercise is a cure, is not really confusion, except in the context of not understanding how ANYONE can ever come to the conclusion that exercise by itself (again, go back to the comment you quoted, and the rest of the thread as well, because this part, these bolded words, are really important) is a cure for anything.

I would argue that both gentleman would argue against your, and whoever else may possess this belief that exercise alone can cure anything. In fact, I know they would, because neither one of them has ever or will ever say such a thing-they would think it's idiotic too. It can be a fantastic tool in one's arsenal, it can help a lot of things, it can help heal, it can help prevent...but it cannot, has never, and will never, cure anything on its own. There is a serious distinction there that needs to be brought to the forefront, because it's really that important.

Physical rehabilitation is not a singular treatment option, ever, for anyone, for anything. It is also recommended that you eat right, sleep the recommended amount, perhaps use heat and or cold, electrode therapy, massage, oils, medications, rubs, other therapies, etc...the list is really endless, any number of things can work in conjunction. No one on this planet can cure anything with exercise alone, though, it's just not possible. Exercise sure as hell is never going to cure a mental health problem, ever, in many cases it doesn't even help, though it can, I won't discount that it can.  The belief that it can cure is not only misleading, it's actually very dangerous, and recommending it is even more dangerous, especially when there is someone that just might listen to that kind of bad advice, and then wonder why it's not helping. Exercise can exacerbate problems tenfold and then some, as it quite often does. This is even present in physical therapy when trying to find the right regimen, it's very easy to do more harm than good, it's a very thin line. 

Anyone that ever recommends exercise alone, with no other components as an actual cure, is a friggen quack, I would literally trust nothing that person ever said again. I definitely won't sugarcoat that. That is completely and and utterly...nuts. 

[karynmaria]

3 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

 

Beth looks confused. 

Most likely because there isn't a WTF button.

 

[JanuarySwan]

8 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

Re-read the quote you, yourself quoted. 

I am fairly certain that most people probably know who both of them are, or if not, can easily figure it out. I am positive that everyone reading knows what physical therapy is, or what it's used for, though, lol. The confusion over your comment-and if you read the rest of the thread, the entire belief that exercise is a cure, is not really confusion, except in the context of not understanding how ANYONE can ever come to the conclusion that exercise by itself (again, go back to the comment you quoted, and the rest of the thread as well, because this part, these bolded words, are really important) is a cure for anything.

I would argue that both gentleman would argue against your, and whoever else may possess this belief that exercise alone can cure anything. In fact, I know they would, because neither one of them has ever or will ever say such a thing-they would think it's idiotic too. It can be a fantastic tool in one's arsenal, it can help a lot of things, it can help heal, it can help prevent...but it cannot, has never, and will never, cure anything on its own. There is a serious distinction there that needs to be brought to the forefront, because it's really that important.

Physical rehabilitation is not a singular treatment option, ever, for anyone, for anything. It is also recommended that you eat right, sleep the recommended amount, perhaps use heat and or cold, electrode therapy, massage, oils, medications, rubs, other therapies, etc...the list is really endless, any number of things can work in conjunction. No one on this planet can cure anything with exercise alone, though, it's just not possible. Exercise sure as hell is never going to cure a mental health problem, ever, in many cases it doesn't even help, though it can, I won't discount that it can.  The belief that it can cure is not only misleading, it's actually very dangerous, and recommending it is even more dangerous, especially when there is someone that just might listen to that kind of bad advice, and then wonder why it's not helping. Exercise can exacerbate problems tenfold and then some, as it quite often does. This is even present in physical therapy when trying to find the right regimen, it's very easy to do more harm than good, it's a very thin line. 

Anyone that ever recommends exercise alone, with no other components as an actual cure, is a friggen quack, I would literally trust nothing that person ever said again. I definitely won't sugarcoat that. That is completely and and utterly...nuts. 

You can believe what you want to believe.  

Jack LaLanne cured his bulimia through diet and exercise.  But, I believe Jack used his positive attitude and his humor along with his family as his most help as I have listened to some of his recordings and he is funny and talks about his wife a lot.  Bulimia is considered a mental illness.   Jack also started the first work out gyms in the 1930's and are now Bally Total Fitness.  As far as the total fitness part I do not believe anything else is encouraged other than a healthy diet.  The rest is up to you in regards to not drinking too much caffeine nor eating too much sugar and exercise increase the hormones that help regulate sleep as well.  

Joseph Pilates works through Pilates alone.  Whether he'd recommended things other than a healthy diet is not very likely as Pilates is a "method".

Medical doctors prescribe physical therapy every day which is a modified form of the Pilates method because pills have a tendency, especially pain pills, to reach a threashold and are no longer effective.  

I do not believe nor have I witnessed every depressed person needing medication.  That is a misnomer.  

I just wanted to add that I asked my physical therapist who invented physical therapy.  The answer was Joseph Pilates.  This is how I began to study about the Pilates Method.  

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by JanuarySwan

[MrsSeren]

I read recently in UK news, that teenage girl who is depressed got told by Drs she wasn't and now she OD with intent to take her life; it's so sad that so many teenagers can be written off as just teenagers with teenage angst; sometimes can be so much more and we need to help all age groups who suffer.  

[Beth Macbain]

Bloody hell, here we go again...

11 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

I think Jack LaLanne would think differently on that but Jack would include diet and exercise.  But, I think Joseph Pilates would definitely prove you wrong if he were still alive...although Joseph Pilates is still "alive" in many ways.  Physical therapy rehabilitation has helped me greatly.  I was slow at beginning my rehab and then really worked at it.  I don't need pills.  Not all people need pills.  That's a misnomer.   

First of all, you are completely misusing the word "misnomer". I'd have let it slide, but you've now used it twice, and neither instance was correct.

Secondly, neither Jack LaLanne or Joseph Pilates were doctors. They had no education related to diseases of the brain. None of the work either of them did related in any way to major depressive disorders. 

No one is disputing that exercise and a healthy diet are good for you, or anyone. No one is disputing that exercise and a healthy diet will make you feel better. I will dispute to my death, however, that exercise or a healthy diet will cure the types of major depression we are talking about in this thread. 

11 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

Beth looks confused.

@karynmaria had it right. We really need a WTF reaction, an eye-roll reaction, and an anger reaction. 

My confusion stems from your inability to either read or comprehend the previous 5 1/2 pages on this topic, and your doubling-down on this nonsense that has already been debunked multiple times by people who live with these conditions and know far more about them than you ever will. 

11 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

Jack LaLanne and Joseph Pilates have both passed away.  Jack LaLanne was nearly 100 years old when he passed away.  Regarding Jospeh Pilates, his methods are taught world wide even after his death.  Pilates involves not only body but mind/body connection which improves both physical and mental health.  Pilates can also be used for physical rehab alone and one does not have to go into his mind/body connection aspect.   

I know who both these gentlemen are. I know what Pilates is. I know what physical therapy is. 

11 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

Joseph Pilates is considered the inventor of what is know today as physical therapy.

He really isn't. Physical therapy goes all the way back to Hippocrates, and has been used in various forms since then, with most credit being given to Per Henrik Ling. Physical therapists were recognized as healthcare practitioners in Sweden before Joseph Pilates was even born. There is literally no mention of Joseph Pilates as any sort of pioneer in any comprehensive history of physical therapy. Pilates is simply one method that is sometimes used in physical therapy. 

11 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

Jack LaLanne started the first go to work gyms.  He was bulimic as a teenager and overcame it with diet and exercise.  

I'm not sure what you mean by "go to work gyms", but I'm going to assume you mean public gyms. While it's true that LaLanne opened the first health club in the US, gyms have been around since ancient Greece. The first commercial gym was opened in Brussels in the 1840s. The YMCA was established in 1844. Jack was born in 1914. 

1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

Medical doctors prescribe physical therapy every day which is a modified form of the Pilates method because pills have a tendency, especially pain pills, to reach a threashold and are no longer effective.  

What does this have to do with depression? And again, you are just wrong with your assertion that physical therapy is a modified form of Pilates. Why are you talking about pain pills in a thread about depression? And if you want to debate the usage of pain pills, I"m happy to get into that as well. 

1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

You can believe what you want to believe.  

So can you, but that doesn't make you any less wrong. 

1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

I do not believe nor have I witnessed every depressed person needing medication.  

Well, first, you've not witnessed every depressed person. Second, no one here is saying that every person diagnosed with a major depressive disorder needs medication. There is no cure for depression, but there are many treatments and all should be considered by medical doctors when treating patients with these brain diseases. When someone is suicidal, no amount of exercise alone is going to help. Period. 

Stop falsely stigmatizing life-saving medications. 

1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

That is a misnomer.  

Definition of misnomer

1: the misnaming of a person in a legal instrument

2a: a use of a wrong or inappropriate name. Example - "Nowadays it is a misnomer to call a farmer a peasant."

b: a wrong name or inappropriate designation. Example - "The name "Greenland" is a misnomer, since much of the island is covered by a massive ice sheet."

Edited November 14, 2019 by Beth Macbain
Rage Typos

[JanuarySwan]

1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

Bloody hell, here we go again...

First of all, you are completely misusing the word "misnomer". I'd have let it slide, but you've now used it twice, and neither instance was correct.

Secondly, neither Jack LaLanne or Joseph Pilates were doctors. They had no education related to diseases of the brain. None of the work either of them did related in any way to major depressive disorders. 

No one is disputing that exercise and a healthy diet are good for you, or anyone. No one is disputing that exercise and a healthy diet will make you feel better. I will dispute to my death, however, that exercise or a healthy diet will cure the types of major depression we are talking about in this thread. 

@karynmaria had it right. We really need a WTF reaction, an eye-roll reaction, and an anger reaction. 

My confusion stems from your inability to either read or comprehend the previous 5 1/2 pages on this topic, and your doubling-down on this nonsense that has already been debunked multiple times by people who live with these conditions and know far more about them than you ever will. 

I know who both these gentlemen are. I know what Pilates is. I know what physical therapy is. 

He really isn't. Physical therapy goes all the way back to Hippocrates, and has been used in various forms since then, with most credit being given to Per Henrik Ling. Physical therapists were a recognized as healthcare practitioners in Sweden before Joseph Pilates was even born. There is literally no mention of Joseph Pilates as any sort of pioneer in any comprehensive history of physical therapy. Pilates is simply one method that is sometimes used in physical therapy. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "go to work gyms", but I'm going to assume you mean public gyms. While it's true that LaLanne opened the first health club in the US, gyms were around since ancient Greece. The first commercial gym was opened in Brussels in the 1840s. The YMCA was established in 1844. Jack was born in 1914. 

What does this have to do with depression? And again, you are just wrong with your assertion that physical therapy is a modified form of Pilates. Why are you talking about pain pills in a thread about depression? And if you want to debate the usage of pain pills, I"m happy to get into that as well. 

So can you, but that doesn't make you any less wrong. 

Well, first, you've not witnessed every depressed person. Second, no one here is saying that every person diagnosed with a major depressive disorder needs medication. There is no cure for depression, but there are many treatments and all should be considered by medical doctors when treating patients with these brain diseases. When someone is suicidal, no amount of exercise alone is going to help. Period. 

Stop falsely stigmatizing life-saving medications. 

Definition of misnomer

1: the misnaming of a person in a legal instrument

2a: a use of a wrong or inappropriate name. Example - "Nowadays it is a misnomer to call a farmer a peasant."

b: a wrong name or inappropriate designation. Example - "The name "Greenland" is a misnomer, since much of the island is covered by a massive ice sheet."

I don't know how to answer all those questions bit by bit via the quote thing.

But, I was told by my physical therapist that Joseph Pilates was the inventor of physical therapy because I asked him.  

I am not stigmatizing medication.  

I said all people do not need medication.

I mentioned pain pills losing their effectiveness because all medications can lose their effectiveness. 

And, if you read my posts, I said physical injury often leads to depression.  Both need treatment for the injured or in chronic pain person.  

People need to make their own informed decisions about the treatment they want which can involve several things.  

Per Henrick Ling invented Swedish Massage and gymnastics including balance beam, horse, etc...which is vastly different from the Pilates method and the physical therapy of today.  Though massage can be part of modern physical therapy and is covered by insurance, gymnastics...balance beam and other gymnastic type exercises are not.  Physical therapy and Pilates are related because both use low to no impact methods.  Although the ball for balance is a part of gymnastics, Pilates also encourages balance as does modern day physical therapy and physical therapy can involve time using "a ball".   But, through my experience Pilates is more related to modern day physical therapy.  

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by JanuarySwan

[Drake1 Nightfire]

47 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

I don't know how to answer all those questions bit by bit via the quote thing.

I just hit quote and chop out what i dont want then hit quote again for the piece..

 

48 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

But, I was told by my physical therapist that Joseph Pilates was the inventor of physical therapy because I asked him.  

And he would be wrong..

48 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

I am not stigmatizing medication.  

I said all people do not need medication.

Well duh, a perfectly healthy person should not need medications, but that's not what we are discussing in this thread, now is it?

49 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

I mentioned pain pills losing their effectiveness because all medications can lose their effectiveness. 

Wrong. dead wrong.. Some people "can" build up a tolerance to "some" medications, but there are medications that will always do what they are meant to do. Such as insulin. Insulin will ALWAYS lower your blood glucose level. 

51 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

And, if you read my posts, I said physical injury often leads to depression.  Both need treatment for the injured or in chronic pain person.  

People need to make their own informed decisions about the treatment they want which can involve several things.  

Not even close. Just because you get hurt doesn't mean you develop clinical depression.. You don't just develop that, its a chemical imbalance in your brain. You are born with it. You may get sad if you get hurt, but you dont get clinical depression. 

[Seicher Rae]

@JanuarySwan  WTF are you on about? That's a rhetorical question. I did read your nonsensical OFF TOPIC comments. No where in this thread is it about injury or chronic pain, even though, yes, both can be contributing factors to depression. No one has come out against exercise and diet. No one has said pharmacology is the only answer. Yeesh. And with all due respect to your physical therapist, I can go down the street and ask the guy where pizza originated and if he said it was someone named Dom I. Nos that doesn't make it so. With all due respect to Joseph Pilates who was an innovator. 

Like @Selene Gregoire this is not the greatest thread for me, but sometimes you just need to point to someone that they just don't get it and are making things worse.

2 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

People need to make their own informed decisions about the treatment they want which can involve several things.  

This we can agree upon. Quit muddying the waters.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Seicher Rae
to fix a word

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

People need to make their own informed decisions about the treatment they want which can involve several things.

Totally agree...everyone is unique and needs to experiment to see what works for them.

Fortunately, exercise works well for me....but sometimes I can't force my self to get off my butt and go for a walk!    Not sure if it's the movement with the increased endorphins that helps, the fresh air with more oxygen, or being more within the beautiful nature  environment that's so alive -- maybe all 3. 

Do you have to take a Pilates class or can you do this alone?

[Tari Landar]

2 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

You can believe what you want to believe.  

Of course I can, but it's not simply because I pick and choose, I use actual fact.  

2 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

Jack LaLanne cured his bulimia through diet and exercise.  But, I believe Jack used his positive attitude and his humor along with his family as his most help as I have listened to some of his recordings and he is funny and talks about his wife a lot.  Bulimia is considered a mental illness.   Jack also started the first work out gyms in the 1930's and are now Bally Total Fitness.  As far as the total fitness part I do not believe anything else is encouraged other than a healthy diet.  The rest is up to you in regards to not drinking too much caffeine nor eating too much sugar and exercise increase the hormones that help regulate sleep as well.  

Pay attention to your own words. Where, in ANYTHING that you, or anyone else for that matter, have written (that includes anyone in this thread, anyone who has ever written any research, anyone who has ever studied, etc..), does it say exercise alone is a cure?  Even if you actually think exercise and diet alone are a cure-all (it's not), that still doesn't mean exercise alone, again, there is a very key distinction that even you have stated, but are completely ignoring. I also call absolute bullspit on the idea that exercise and healthy eating alone is a cure-all for anything. IN fact, I know it's bull-spit and a complete lie because even those two things alone can't solve anything, let alone cure anything, if one doesn't also follow other healthy regimen components (such as proper sleep, treating other problems as they come about-because everyone will run into oter issues(cuts scrapes, bruises, headaches, whatever have you) now and then, living a clean life, healthy thinking, medications when and where necessary, etc., and NO ONE who has ever considered his or her self an expert, or has been considered one by others, would ever deny these very real facts). 

1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

I said all people do not need medication.

Not a single soul has said they do, literally, no one has said this, at all. Nor has anyone ever said even all medication is one size fits all, or that all medications will always work. 

1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

People need to make their own informed decisions about the treatment they want which can involve several things. 

Now we're making progress, and you're understanding that exercise ALONE is not a cure-all and cannot be one, ever, for anything.

Exercise alone, again, a distinction needs made (I don't know why it keeps getting ignored but I'm starting to think two people are speaking from the same uninformed fingers on this, lol), cannot cure anything at all by itself. Regardless of what else you might use along with exercise, the act of exercising alone isn't going to cure anything. You need to do other things, even if it is only eating healthy, you need to do something. 

If someone actually told you that exercise alone is going to cure something, I would run far, far away from that person and their advice. It is horrible advice and it is more likely that they'll give you even more horrible advice down the road. Exercise can help, it is one component o a treatment regimen, it is not now, nor has it ever been, the entire regiment all by itself. That doesn't even sound..well, sound, lol, in theory, let alone in practice. 

If exercise was a cure-all for anything at all, the world would be a much healthier place. The fact that it's not, and we know it's not, is what leads us to find other components that can aid us in fixing problems. The fact that some people don't want to recognize fact and want to replace it with their own reality doesn't actually change this, at all, lol. I wouldn't be mostly blind, I wouldn't have a bum heart, I wouldn't have had to go through years of treatment for other things.... if exercise  alone was  a cure. Hell even physical therapy I've been through (which I have, many times, I've broken damn near every bone in my body and have had many surgeries for things as well which required months of PT) is NEVER a cure, it is merely a part of treatment, it is never the entirety of treatment by itself.  Telling people it is doesn't make it so, and if a physical therapist actually ever told you that exercise or PT alone would fix whatever you were there for, that person is a quack too and not someone I would trust with my health, that's pure nonsense. 

I can make things up too, especially things that sound good, but it doesn't make them truth, or fact.

This is such a loaded, but important topic. I'm doing my best to remain civil, and I hope that comes across in my words, having a bit of an issue typing today, more so than usual. I just bothers me tremendously when people speak with authority on something they neither understand, nor want to understand, but they will beat their non-fact into the ground and live and die on those non-fact words. It bothers me because they are the most likely to give people horrible advice (or worse, make others feel bad when they don't agree, or don't feel the same, or don't..whatever), and ar ealso most likely t have someone willing to listen to the horrible advice, and I find that scary.  

I have a doctor who absolutely HATES prescribing medication of any kind, and won't do so unless absolutely necessary. He will turn you to every other option first and foremost (unless dire need, of course). BUt even he can recognize that exercise alone isn't going to fix jack all, he'd laugh at the idea that it can, and exercise is pretty much always included in every single treatment regiment he doles out, lol. He very much stands behind the idea that exercise is an important component of all treatments. That doesn't make it a CURE though, it makes it a component, period. 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Tari Landar

[JanuarySwan]

35 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Totally agree...everyone is unique and needs to experiment to see what works for them.

Fortunately, exercise works well for me....but sometimes I can't force my self to get off my butt and go for a walk!    Not sure if it's the movement with the increased endorphins that helps, the fresh air with more oxygen, or being more within the beautiful nature  environment that's so alive -- maybe all 3. 

Do you have to take a Pilates class or can you do this alone?

Exercise works very well for me too.  I was unmotivated at first to do "my homework" because with physical therapy each patient is sent home with exercises they are to do at home and I did my home exercises probably like once or twice because I thought it was bogus and nothing could help me.   Then, after yet another course of physical therapy prescribed by my doctor, I began talking to my physical therapist about all aspects of my road to regain the best health possible and I finally decided to just do it and give the exercises my all, and it began to work.  I became more active in all aspects of my life and a much happier person overall.

Pilates is often taught in classes with a personal instructor and/or you can purchase your own Pilates machine which has in a way a personal instructor talking you through how to do each move and encouraging breathing, etc. on a tape that you play as you are using the machine and it is little to no impact.  

I know what it's like to not exercise.  I couldn't do it for years either until I started talking to my physical therapist and then researching some things on my own about the benefits of exercise.  

Pilates is low impact and really focuses on flexibility.  Just the tight hamstrings many of us have due to lack of stretching can be a cause of terrible pain.  There are books to read about Pilates to gain knowledge.

 

[JanuarySwan]

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

 

Not even close. Just because you get hurt doesn't mean you develop clinical depression.. You don't just develop that, its a chemical imbalance in your brain. You are born with it. You may get sad if you get hurt, but you dont get clinical depression. 

Are you a doctor or a clinician?  Because, it is possible to develop any illness at any time in one's life as far as I know.  I'm not sure if it's all inborn or not.  

[Seicher Rae]

38 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

If exercise was a cure-all for anything at all, the world would be a much healthier place. The fact that it's not, and we know it's not, is what leads us to find other components that can aid us in fixing problems.

You said a lot of good things Tari. I just wanted to add this other little tidbit to the thought of diet and exercise as miracle do-alls. Every so often there are news articles about pro athletes, marathon runners, cyclists, and the like, who are epitomes of exercise and rigorous healthy diets. Some, I believe, have literally written "the" book. And they suddenly drop dead or are diagnosed with cancer or another serious illness. So...

Facts and logic and education are pesky little things, no?

And here we may have thought we'd gotten out of the weeds in this thread.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

8 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

Are you a doctor or a clinician?  Because, it is possible to develop any illness at any time in one's life as far as I know.  I'm not sure if it's all inborn or not.  

Mental illnesses are not like other illnesses.. YOu are born with them. No, i am not a doctor, Therapist or psychologist,  but i have spoken to literally hundreds of them. They have all said that mental illness is a born with illness. You wont suddenly develop ADHD when you are 60. Clinical depression can be detected in children as young as 5. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain. Hitting the gym wont fix it. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Waiting for the anti-vaxxers to show up here . . .