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What are the hardest things about Second Life for new players?


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20 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Hoo boy...that was fun, but definitely NOT explanatory!

I should know better than to ask a Tiny...pardon me, a Dinkie...for anything rational! (No offense intended...craziness is good too.)

Bwwwwwwwwwwwah!  How can I explain Dinkies...I wish I could make a Machinema of my Dinkie doing the dances I choreographed for her...she's about as cute as Shirley Temple though with a bit of awkward cuteness...like she is a really a 3-year-old human.  It's just adorable. 

The difference with the Dinkies is that they can do about 80% of the human animations except the ground sits or ground dances are difficult due to their small size.  If you take the hover down to the ground with a ground sit, a Dinkie will go through the floor on Stand because the hover is set so low.  

Dinkies are an anthropomorphized tiny Cat.  Kind of like half human/half cat.  

p.s.  If you look carefully at that video there is even a Dinkie doing the ballet.  They aminate very well.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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Yes, avatar customization, in all of its incredibly complicated and byzantine glory. Honestly, even veterans sometimes have trouble with that, and the recent introduction of BOM, although it may

@Lindal Kidd .... a few more things about Dinkies.  Dinkies dress mostly in human clothing whereas Nekos and Furries and such do not...a furry may wear a bikini but Dinkies like lots of clothes and we

When SL started in 2003 was very different from now in 2019. In 2003 it might have seemed strange to people to even have a 3D graphical environment. Things like moving around, clicking on stuff,

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27 minutes ago, BelindaN said:

I can only imagine what it was like back in the day.  

Back in the day Belinda, there weren't even emoticons.  And, it wasn't recorded text like on the forum here...it was just text happening in the moment only to fade away and you just had to jump into the conversation anywhere.  It was hilarious and highly un-moderated.  Wild kind of.  But fun!  

Oh, if you meant that about Second Life...I read that wrong.

I'm talking about the beginning of chat rooms which happened before Second Life in the late 1990's or so.  

 

Edited by FairreLilette
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On 10/26/2019 at 7:44 PM, FairreLilette said:

It's not just the difficulty when I landed here into a world of huds I didn't get...it's the expense too of making a mesh avatar versus a Classic avatar.

And, to the OP:    

More PG and wear any kind of avatar you like events are needed.  There just aren't enough.  And, some events are a little pricey too.  

I want to be with people who just want to have fun and not break the bank.

I have two little clubs and cannot afford several thousand linden per hour acts.  The Dj's may be less...but I still cannot afford even 1,000 linden an hour for a DJ...do you think my club would make one thousand linden an hour to cover the expense?  I don't.   Most people are tipping the DJ and the host and the club makes about 20% of that usually.  Although I'm not sure what the average percentage split is for most clubs.  

I emailed directly if I can play my YouTube playlists in my virtual world home for friends without having to pay licensing fees and such...I have yet to hear an answer from YouTube.  There is a phone number to call YouTube which I am considering...the only thing is I wanted it in writing from YouTube to my email so there would be no problem playing music from YouTube.  As it stands now my question has 0 (zero) answers and it's been about a week.  

But, it's an expense too.  If you are a newbie, play as cheap as possible for awhile until you decide you really like it unless you have money to burn and can take the loss if you decide you don't even like it.  

It's was a year and half before I got my first mesh head.  I built for a year and half in SL.  Then, went into mesh avatar.  I danced at clubs with friends as a Classic for a long time.  I wasn't looking for a bf on here.  I love the music and art aspects of SL...but it can be an expense.   And, with some clubs...the music is too much the same thing.  But, the art is a constant evolution of amazing things.  

I would contact Linden Lab about your licensing concerns, as the music will be streamed through their platform, so they are responsible.

Most DJ's spin for tips. Tips only is pretty much the standard when it comes to hiring DJs. If DJs are charging a fee, especially a 4 digit fee, I would avoid them whether you can afford it or not. I own a club with my girl. None of our DJs charge. Very, very few clubs will ever hire a DJ for an upfront fee.

Some singers will perform for tips too. Others have reasonable fees and come with crowds that tip decent. Do your research. Go to clubs, see who draws a crowd. The bigger the crowd the more likely a tipper or two is in the room.

Edited by Adam Spark
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5 minutes ago, Adam Spark said:

I would contact Linden Lab about your licensing concerns, as the music will be streamed through their platform, so they are responsible.

Most DJ's spin for tips. Tips only is pretty much the standard when it comes to hiring DJs. If DJs are charging a fee, especially a 4 digit fee, I would avoid them whether you can afford it or not. I own a club with my girl. None of our DJs charge. Very, very few clubs will ever hire a DJ for an upfront fee.

I kind of wanted an answer from YouTube but have yet to receive one.  Though I will consider contacting LL.

However, not to get into a long debate...but I have been around Musicians my whole life.  Was Dad was in the entertainment biz in Los Angeles.  And, I know real life Tribute bands and they do not have to pay licensing fees.  

Thank you for the info about DJ's.  I was told most want an hourly wage as well as tips.  

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@Lindal Kidd .... a few more things about Dinkies.  Dinkies dress mostly in human clothing whereas Nekos and Furries and such do not...a furry may wear a bikini but Dinkies like lots of clothes and we need more designers to consider us as I think we lost one designer out of a handful of Dinkie designers because of Tilia.  I cannot confirm that 100% but a friend told me...I don't know what Dinkies are going to do now that ............. blank has left (don't want to say the name here).    But, Dinkies like clothes, hair, jewelry, shoes...all kinds of stuff.  And, they do not have slex, not that I know of.  I don't know if Furries or Neko's do as I have never been one.   They are more like being a child again but the way they animate is just adorable.  I think The Dinkies would a #1 hit TV show for sure.  Talking cats that sing and dance....I think everyone would love it!  

Edit Adds a photo:  It's the way Dinkies animate...it's just adorkable.  It just is.  2D is not that great for Dinkies as it isn't as adorkable.   Here's meeb.  A lot of human adult stuff fits us...but not the clothes.  With hair, x y z menu is needed.  

But, with lag...using an alt with a lower complexity mesh avatar is an option, too.  There are all kinds of avatars to purchase...some very low in complexity...even human...and bye bye lag...and go explore and have fun in a low complexity avatar.  Just a thought for anyone regarding lag.  

Snapshot_762 meeb.png

Edited by FairreLilette
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- The hardest things for me in SL is the inventory. You spend almost all your time for searching copy past, renaming adding wearing etc... things  in folders. Inventory is all in SL. If you understand it you understand most of it

- Second you need a good level of english. It is excellent to learn english but sometimes it is too much. You understand but you don't understand. You think you understand but you understand other things that the reality.

- Then of course avatar and the complexity of type of cloth and attachement.

- Vocalulary is not easy to understand. After years I still don't understand some words like rezzing or inworld or prims etc... I know in theory but I never use them and when someone use this words I don't understand the whole sentense.

-  On other things is the temporality. You talk with someone you have a very good conversation. We get friends and more and then pluf . It is like it never exists. Disparition!!!

 

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On 10/28/2019 at 4:25 PM, FairreLilette said:

@Lindal Kidd .... a few more things about Dinkies.  Dinkies dress mostly in human clothing whereas Nekos and Furries and such do not...a furry may wear a bikini but Dinkies like lots of clothes and we need more designers to consider us as I think we lost one designer out of a handful of Dinkie designers because of Tilia.  I cannot confirm that 100% but a friend told me...I don't know what Dinkies are going to do now that ............. blank has left (don't want to say the name here).    But, Dinkies like clothes, hair, jewelry, shoes...all kinds of stuff.  And, they do not have slex, not that I know of.  I don't know if Furries or Neko's do as I have never been one.   They are more like being a child again but the way they animate is just adorable.  I think The Dinkies would a #1 hit TV show for sure.  Talking cats that sing and dance....I think everyone would love it!  

Nekos definitely do wear clothes, as they are almost human except for the addition of cat-ears and a tail, so they need to wear clothes everywhere that a human would. Furries are slightly more likely to go naked, though outside of adult furry clubs, I see them clothed more often than not. I am furry sometimes and will wear shorts at a minimum, except with my Jomo lion, which has so little clothes made for it and nothing else fits. 

As far as sex goes, nekos are as likely to do it as humans are, and furries are slightly more likely, though they call it "yiffing". Most furry clubs, with the notable exception of Luskwood, are on adult-rated regions. That probably tells you more than you need to know.

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3 hours ago, Matty Luminos said:

Nekos definitely do wear clothes, as they are almost human except for the addition of cat-ears and a tail, so they need to wear clothes everywhere that a human would. Furries are slightly more likely to go naked, though outside of adult furry clubs, I see them clothed more often than not. I am furry sometimes and will wear shorts at a minimum, except with my Jomo lion, which has so little clothes made for it and nothing else fits. 

I just typed NEKO in Marketplace keyword area and then clicked on APPAREL...Oh, how cute!  There are tons of cute stuff for Neko's to wear.  I've never seen a Neko then but I have seen Furries.  

Neko's have tons and tons of cute stuff to wear....Dinkies we don't even hardly have any tights...not even one fatpack of tights...there are about 5 tights I know for Dinkies, each one pair and a few with old prim style dresses.  I would prefer mesh clothing personally...there are but a small handful of mesh creators for Dinkie clothing.   It's sad..we need creator's to make some Dinkie stuff desperately.  It is such a non-saturated market and free advertisement in our groups.  (Just IM me and I will tell whomever wants to make Dinkie items what groups they can advertise in.)

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I brought a friend in who was experienced with 3D games and sandbox environments, and knew at least the basics of 3D modeling and the like. They still found SL's interface rather odd and unintuitive, and had a hard time navigating the world and interacting with objects. The viewer sort of works out to a mishmash of a mmo interface, a 3D modelling suite, and a web browser all in one, and it can be hard to gel all that together at first even if you have used these things individually.

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15 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

I just typed NEKO in Marketplace keyword area and then clicked on APPAREL...Oh, how cute!  There are tons of cute stuff for Neko's to wear.  I've never seen a Neko then but I have seen Furries.

Nekos don't use special bodies, they just use an ordinary classic or mesh body so they can wear any normal clothes. Rave and grunge styles are particularly popular but I don't care for them and don't wear them even when I'm neko.

Most furry bodies are the same, except for the head and sometimes legs, so again they can wear pretty much anything. However some furry avatars, particularly Jomo, use custom mesh bodies and can only wear clothes made specifically for them. Which is why my Jomo lion is usually naked. Kemono bodies are popular with furries, again they need specially made clothes but there is a much bigger choice.

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Most answers have been about clothing, quite correctly. However, and in my experience, another thing many new players have trouble getting is the nature of socializing in SL. Even those past sending friendship requests left & right, still think it’s a question of asking every stranger. Insofar as they see it as a virtual world, they think that different (looser) rules apply.

Edited by Ren Toxx
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Good point, Ren. A brand new person might not get the SL social norms of the friend request , and wonder why no one wants to be a friend. I kind of liken it to when my 9yo plays Roblox. He gets dozens of random friend requests, which his “mean” mom makes him decline due to stranger danger. Someone more familiar with that style of friending (hopefully adults and not 9 year olds) might find the cold shoulders off putting. I do try to explain to brand new players why I’m declining.

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25 minutes ago, Eva Knoller said:

Good point, Ren. A brand new person might not get the SL social norms of the friend request , and wonder why no one wants to be a friend. I kind of liken it to when my 9yo plays Roblox. He gets dozens of random friend requests, which his “mean” mom makes him decline due to stranger danger. Someone more familiar with that style of friending (hopefully adults and not 9 year olds) might find the cold shoulders off putting. I do try to explain to brand new players why I’m declining.

Some newbies or younger persons could even think it's like Facebook with the friendship thing.

On FB, my nephew and niece have thousands of friends; whereas, me, I have under 30 friends of FB and most of those 30 are actual blood relatives or related with a few exceptions of a handful of friends I became friends with through a couple of fan club groups I belong to on FB.  I don't have time to read thousands of peoples things they put through FB...so I am friends mostly with actual family.  

The thousands upon thousands of friends I don't understand where one would get the time, even on FB.    

Friendship in SL actually equates to time far more so than just sharing a funny picture or video like on FB.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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On 10/25/2019 at 6:40 PM, LuxuriousSin said:

 what you think is the hardest thing for newplayers about second life!

patience ... in handling the viewer, in handling their appearance, and social things like said in the post above

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As a newish player who didn't get the chance to grow into SL's large community or history, I'd say everything about SL is difficult for a new user to pick up.

Socializing in SL is predicated on real-world social skills -- you have to actively (not passively) engage others here. Sending deluges of obscure greetings or friend requests will not turn out well for you -- the SL community is not about curation of an audience like on Twitter or other social media. When meeting other people, the established users here expect a modicum of good etiquette and, regardless of if they're roleplaying or not, a desire to be acknowledged as a person -- not an NPC or something to entertain yourself with. I think it's hard for new users to grasp that SL is not like a chatroom where you can just jump in and say hello -- you have to learn to read the air and actually work to form relationships.

The UI too is cumbersome, regardless of viewer, and there are tons of internal buttons, sub-menus, and functions -- all controlling an aspect like windlight, notifications, destinations, outfits, animations, building, etc. I think it's good practice for new users to refer to a viewer wiki or video any time they want to learn how to do something, especially if you don't have friends to guide you.

And finally, as so many others here have stated, world and avatar customization are very difficult. Each body, head, cosmetic, outfit, and accessory literally comes with its own user-manual. While some items can function similarly, no two are the same, and you're going to be spending a long time just learning how to find matching skins for your head --before you even apply them.

Building an avi that "looks good" requires some minor knowledge of fashion and human proportion -- as well as learning how parts function and which are compatible. There is no manual for avatar or building -- there are a few groups and video tutorials that can help establish the basics, but progress comes down to trial and error.

I've learned how to do so much, but I've had 2 years to do so. I think new users should come in with the understanding that the SL learning curve takes a few weeks to acclimate to.

Edited by KirinGale
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15 minutes ago, KirinGale said:

As a newish player who didn't get the chance to grow into SL's large community or history, I'd say everything about SL is difficult for a new user to pick up.

This, and the rest of the post, is right on target.  That makes Alwin's comment

2 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

patience ... in handling the viewer, in handling their appearance, and social things like said in the post above

all the more relevant.  New users who stay with SL for the long haul are likely to be people who can tolerate uncertainty and a bit of chaos and who are willing to take a long term view of learning.  People who step into SL expecting to "play" immediately without getting the lay of the land and developing basic skills are likely to walk away quickly.  I suspect that means SL is more attractive to older users than to younger ones, introspective rather than impulsive ones, and non-linear thinkers rather than those who prefer clear directions.  Those are only guesses on my part and are not meant to be value judgments of any kind.  They also relate to the SL population at large, not to specific individuals.  Still, they help me explain to myself why so many of the SL "old timers" like me have stayed around for a decade or more, and why newbie retention has always been a challenge for Linden Lab.

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On 10/25/2019 at 12:40 PM, LuxuriousSin said:

Hey! I wanted to ask the community what you think is the hardest thing for new (and older) players about second life!

I think SL can have a difficult learning curve for new players, so I am interested to see what everyone thinks!

to me, its the fact things take forever to rez when I am in large groups of avatars. (lowering view, lowering my graphics etc done)

Also having to see everyone nude. A new player might very well be turned off by this, particularly one who is underage and their parents might  see it...  I am not a prude by any means but it is something to consider.

(1) You might say to me, get a better computer however a lot of people using SL do not have the fund to have the best computer and keep upgrading every year.... One of the reasons I do not attend events with lots of people is I just can not enjoy it I get to 2 fps a sec and I am stuck and or crash. 

Something that would work well across the board would be nice.

I really never had any issues with SL until the mass use of Mesh bodies, paired with mesh clothing, and mesh buildings and mesh plants.. etc.. (refer to (1) please)

 

 

 

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On 10/28/2019 at 4:09 PM, FairreLilette said:

I kind of wanted an answer from YouTube but have yet to receive one.  Though I will consider contacting LL.

However, not to get into a long debate...but I have been around Musicians my whole life.  Was Dad was in the entertainment biz in Los Angeles.  And, I know real life Tribute bands and they do not have to pay licensing fees.  

Thank you for the info about DJ's.  I was told most want an hourly wage as well as tips.  

You have a misunderstanding. No music is streamed through SL servers.

All SL servers do is pass an internet link to your computer, allowing it to connect directly itself.

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On 10/26/2019 at 11:14 PM, FairreLilette said:

And, some events are a little pricey too. 

Pricey for whom? I haven't encountered a non-free event in years.

And if you want to run a club without rewarding DJ's for their time, DJ yourself. You needn't even speak.

I don't really recognise the SL you are describing..

I suggest you join the group Musicians United, and get deluged with notificatioins for the dozens of free events I see every day.

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39 minutes ago, Chalky White said:

Please don't publish your views on SL in a book. You seem to know nothing, and just be wallowing in paranoia.

ah no... of course we all jump up when somebody with 5 posts comes tell what to do.

You'r 15 yrs in SL .. seriously...5 posts and this attitude? .. and they say regular forummers are snobby.... :SwingingFriends:

with alll your experience enlighten us at a normal way and explain things.

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On 10/25/2019 at 7:22 PM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yes, avatar customization, in all of its incredibly complicated and byzantine glory.

I advise new people to avoid attempting any avatar customisation until at least their 10th visit. Learn the interface first, then explore and learn how huge and diverse SL is, then have some fun sailing, flying, ski-ing, dancing.

Only then, when they see why SL is worth the effort, should they tackle the minefield of customising. Trying it first leads many to give up, and be lost to us forever.

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The hardest thing for new arrivals is trying to understand and master SL on their own, without help.

It takes about 2 hours to teach a newbie the basics, explain SL, and take him/her on a quick tour of 4 interesting places, matched to the interests he/she may express.

If we all resolved to give that time, even if only once a week, the new user experience would be totally transformed, and player retention would leap.

I do it. Shouldn't you?

 

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