Kia Kiyori Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I've a sneaking suspicion I've seen this mentioned/grumbled about somewhere recently but can't find where. Basically, when in ultra settings (FS) and attempting to use WL shadows (y'know, sunsets/sunrises/sun angles, etc), they've become kind of ugly; the shadows, that is. What looks lovely through the camera lens, looks dawg-awful once saved. Even fiddling with the Light tab in Phototools appears to have absolutely no effect whatsoever. What's with that? I know the usual is to 'go to FS > About and post your details here', and/or blanket blame the machine/internet/Trump, but that doesn't account for a friend who lives in Sweden and has the best of everything at her disposal (including her machine); we're both experiencing the same issues and we both need to take vendor pics, which seems to be proving increasingly difficult to do well. My workaround (if it can be called that) is to use a dark wl and a projector but I can't do that for every pic and neither can my friend. Has something changed that we perhaps aren't aware of - or is there perhaps a strange new setting somewhere that we're missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirly Fizzle Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Is it this bug?BUG-227731 - In high-resolution snapshots, the image appears broken up in segments (tiling in snapshots) If not, can you post an image of an affected snapshot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia Kiyori Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said: Is it this bug?BUG-227731 - In high-resolution snapshots, the image appears broken up in segments (tiling in snapshots) If not, can you post an image of an affected snapshot? Thank you, Whirly - I'd deleted mine but took a snippet from my friend who shared the same shadow woes: https://gyazo.com/1717d8d6cd56b3c6edc51a8c33b7e26e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirly Fizzle Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Hmm doesn't look like that bug but the image is tiny. Would i be possible to post a screenshot of the inworld scene looking correct together with the saved image showing the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia Kiyori Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 40 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said: Hmm doesn't look like that bug but the image is tiny. Would i be possible to post a screenshot of the inworld scene looking correct together with the saved image showing the problem? As soon as she logs in, I'll ask her if it's ok to post the entire photo (it's not mine). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resi Pfeffer Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 17 hours ago, AnyaJurelle said: through the camera lens, looks dawg-awful once saved. How do you save the pic? Directly into your inventory or to your computers local drive? Have you also tried to mess around with the shadow sharpness? As much as i remember you can find it in the photo tools (Firestorm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia Kiyori Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, Resi Pfeffer said: How do you save the pic? Directly into your inventory or to your computers local drive? Have you also tried to mess around with the shadow sharpness? As much as i remember you can find it in the photo tools (Firestorm) Saved to disk. Yes, as mentioned in my original post, this was despite messing about with the light tab (shadow sharpness, etc) in phototools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resi Pfeffer Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Just now, AnyaJurelle said: Saved to disk. Yes, as mentioned in my original post, this was despite messing about with the light tab (shadow sharpness, etc) in phototools. A workaround (until its solved) would be to use screenshots made by your computer, if you are willing to cut out the viewer frame and menu bars. But i will try to replicate your setup later when im at home. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia Kiyori Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 @Resi Pfeffer Thank you, Resi. It seems ok for me atm - I can fudge things a bit if need be but my friend was having a worse time of it. In any event, I think she'll check this thread when she logs in (I need to log out now) so hopefully she'll be able to post the full sized photos that demonstrated what the problem is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) I haven't noticed any issues but I typically use mid-ultra so wanted to test and see if I could see the problem. I took the exact same shot at mid-ultra and at full ultra. The full ultra had smoother shadows but by the time I resized ( I shoot at 5000) there was no noticable difference -- especially after the photo gets compressed again for these forums. I am using Firestorm 6.0.2 (56680) Feb 9 2019 18:55:39 (64bit) (Firestorm-Releasex64) so there "may" have been some change in the viewer? No clue. Here is my final shot and the process screenshot for the ultra setting. I can see no difference at all. It could be a graphic's card issue with an update needed? Mine is: Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 980/PCIe/SSE2 Edited October 22, 2019 by Chic Aeon adding info 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia Kiyori Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 @Chic Aeon Yours looks good, but the issue we're having is with shadows on the face - dappled sunlight kind of shadows. Just tried to re-create the issue since my friend still hasn't logged in yet. First image is with ultra settings, second is halfway point between high and ultra - both using Satomi's 2018 Morning Selfie wl (no filter): Playing with the shadow res/clarity/blur/soften, etc etc doesn't appear to touch the shadows anymore - they show up rough and remain rough. The eyes seem to go weird, although I think that's possibly just the wl used on ultra (Satomi's 2018 Morning Selfie) - some do, some don't. It's what's happening with the shadows that's perplexing; I would have put it down to my laptop being old (4 years, NVIDIA GTX 820M, which is no longer supported) except that my Swedish friend with a far better machine and newer graphics card was having the same issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) Well I don't have that Windlight setting in my list so I can't comment but a pretty obvious question is does this happen with MANY Windlight settings or just this one? What I am seeing in your photo definitely looks like a shadow setting issue. I am not exactly sure what look you are going for but I tried to reproduce something akin to your photo. It seems to me that the "shadow clarity" would be a main setting to look at, but of course there are plenty of sliders there to fiddle with. Here are my shadow settings if that helps. You might ALSO adjust the Windlight setting as that could be the problem. It isn't "universal" as far as I can tell. Simply changing the Windlight just at TOUCH makes a big difference. Edited October 22, 2019 by Chic Aeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia Kiyori Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 @Chic Aeon I do regularly change windlights and fiddle with sliders - this WL was simply used to give a more obvious example of what I'm talking about for the benefit of the post. Very familiar with the Light settings tab for shadow res and clarity since I've used most of those sliders on a regular basis, but in this situation, they're entirely ineffective and I don't understand why. Would be so easy to blame myself for being entirely dense despite 2 years of professional VR photography, except the same situation has begun occurring for my friend with the more powerful machine and much newer graphics card. I guess it'll remain an unsolved mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelina String Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) @AnyaJurelle: I did this comparison just now - Right part Satomi's Morning Selfie - left part region default WL with time of day and eastern angle of sun set to the same as the Morning Selfie. All other settings untouched, crops from 5000x2600px screenshots, camera in same position, shadows from the same palms . Looks to me as the choice of WL might have an effect here... Edited October 22, 2019 by Angelina String 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia Kiyori Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 @Angelina String Yes, I agree. As already mentioned though, the WL I used for the photos above was only to clearly demonstrate the problem. Your photos above are another but more typical example of the problem we've been having; you see how the shadows - particularly on your avi's forehead - aren't clearly defined, but rough and jagged? That's what we haven't been able to clear up using the shadow res, clarity, blur, etc etc etc sliders Phototool's Light tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelina String Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Oh, this was on the default Ultra settings. My laptop and the latest FS responds nicely to the sliders in the Phototool's Light tab. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia Kiyori Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 Just now, Angelina String said: Oh, this was on the default Ultra settings. My laptop and the latest FS responds nicely to the sliders in the Phototool's Light tab. This one is perfect and what we haven't been able to achieve lately. Wish I knew what's going on, but there are other ways around it. Thank you for sharing Angelina ♥ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelina String Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, AnyaJurelle said: Thank you for sharing Angelina ♥ To bad I could not help to solve the issue BTW - if i turn off "Enable Ambient Occlusion (Depth Perception)" (checkbox in same tab), the shadow sliders stop working and the edges turns jagged again? Edited October 22, 2019 by Angelina String Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia Kiyori Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Angelina String said: To bad I could not help to solve the issue BTW - if i turn off "Enable Ambient Occlusion (Depth Perception)" (checkbox in same tab), the shadow sliders stop working and the edges turns jagged again? Hmmm....let me log in and check that - thanks for the tip! Edit: it was already ticked - but ty for the suggestion. Edited October 22, 2019 by AnyaJurelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Redstar Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 first off, there is no real reason to use "ultra' I set it a couple stops below then dial things up . Secondly a trick i learned to get good shadows is turn off ambient occlusion then use the shadow clarity slider to find the crispest shadow - then turn ambient occlusion back on. also its a good idea to reset all the sliders back to default then retweak them again as needed Or, use the black dragon viewer! problem solved! lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia Kiyori Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 BD is brilliant - it's just minus all the bits I love FS for. Ultra - and therefore ambient occlusion - is a requirement for DoF; something I use a lot - but more for sim photography than vendor pics. although I did use DoF a day or so ago for that. Thing is, why have shadows turned sour now when I've used these settings without any problems up until now? And if it's just my laptop, then why is the same thing occurring with a friend in Sweden who has a beast of a machine (compared to mine) with a graphics card I can only dream about (compared to mine)? Something seems to have changed but I don't know what; some have said "it's the whole EEP mess" - I know nothing about how that would work - I barely have a grasp on EEP in the first place - but at this point, it seems as good a thing as any to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Redstar Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, AnyaJurelle said: BD is brilliant - it's just minus all the bits I love FS for. Ultra - and therefore ambient occlusion - is a requirement for DoF; something I use a lot - but more for sim photography than vendor pics. although I did use DoF a day or so ago for that. Thing is, why have shadows turned sour now when I've used these settings without any problems up until now? And if it's just my laptop, then why is the same thing occurring with a friend in Sweden who has a beast of a machine (compared to mine) with a graphics card I can only dream about (compared to mine)? Something seems to have changed but I don't know what; some have said "it's the whole EEP mess" - I know nothing about how that would work - I barely have a grasp on EEP in the first place - but at this point, it seems as good a thing as any to blame. Tis true BD is missing ALOT compared to FS and I wont use BD as an every day viewer. But DOF works on FS once shaders and atmosphere shaders are on - it can be used with out without shadows and without being in "ultra' I personally haven't noticed any further degradation in shadows on FS - seems to be the same as they always have been. Of course, I never put mine in 'ultra' so maybe thats why I havent seen any changes. BTW I have a nvidia gtx 970 card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia Kiyori Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Jackson Redstar said: Tis true BD is missing ALOT compared to FS and I wont use BD as an every day viewer. But DOF works on FS once shaders and atmosphere shaders are on - it can be used with out without shadows and without being in "ultra' I personally haven't noticed any further degradation in shadows on FS - seems to be the same as they always have been. Of course, I never put mine in 'ultra' so maybe thats why I havent seen any changes. BTW I have a nvidia gtx 970 card Sorry, yes - I can use DoF on that little halfway point between High and Ultra, but the shadows are still gunky. "BTW I have a nvidia gtx 970 card"...............BTW - I hate you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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