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5 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

There are lots of reasons for groups to have selective membership

I never said there weren't any good reasons for selective memberships. Not a single one of my post addressed sex groups who are selective of membership. I didn't address them because they were not mentioned by the OP (as quoted below, emphasis mine) of this thread. I have been speaking in general terms and deliberately not addressing any specific group or groups of people.

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There is a club on SL so exclusive that you have to pay 1,000L to enter an assessment sim, where your avatar will be screened and either accepted or ejected. 

If accepted, you pay another 10,000L and are given access to the actual club sim. 

I was wondering, does anyone know the place I'm talking about, and did you ever get in?

They probably don’t understand, the magnitude of the risk they are actually taking, and the psychological damage inflicted by this simple act. Human beings are acutely sensitive to social rejection and ostracism. It is hard-wired into our system, having evolved as a result of our reliance on other humans for survival. 

Research shows that even partial ostracism is quickly detected, and that lacking information that others in a group seem to have undermines not one but four fundamental human needs:  the need for belonging and connection to others, self-esteem, the need for a sense of control and effectiveness, and the need for meaningful relationships.

What it boils down to is this:  being left out is perceived as a signal that one has low status or standing.  People who lack information that their associates seem to have often feel that they have fallen out of favor, or that others have turned against them.  It is this loss of standing, according to researchers, that undermines our four fundamental needs as well as our trust, loyalty, and motivation.

Interestingly, this is true even when we believe that we have been left out unintentionally.  Why?  Well, even when someone accidentally leaves you out, you often suspect that they could have remembered if it was really important to them, if they really respected you.  In the end, even inadvertent exclusion feels like a sign of low status.

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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Just now, roseelvira said:

you too will pick you up at airport train station for all the holidays  ,,,, you and beth and My rl hubby and me   ,,,and maddy  and anyone else who wants to come ,,,,  i hate that  already that the stores are selling christmas candy and halloween is next week ,,,, i will be handing out candy canes  ,, in my family ,,,, all aunts and uncles are all over in the great sky plane  save two ,,,, in my famly when there was a disagreement amongst the adults they would have to sit at the table and with a small glass of polish moonsine  say what they were mad at then take swig it back then the other relitive stated their point and then drank theirs  and note they each had to pour each others liquor  ,,, and after each point of the disagreement and misunderstand and a few glasses of the liquor  there were hugs and tears and the next day ,,,, love and a deeper understanding of each other .   We are family here and i wish we all lived next to each other  ,,,, life is soooo hard ,,,, and we are each others soft spot to land and hold each other with love and tenderness and joy and pride ,,,, for and in and with each other  loves you all here on the forummsand second life so very much ,,,, 

I appreciate the offer. Very much so. I'm sorry it just isn't doable for financial and health reasons. Thank you for the offer. Your kindness and loving heart won't be forgotten. 

I'd like to think my little sister would have been just like you if she had lived beyond the age of 5. It wasn't meant to be as she was born a water head baby (Hydrocephalus) at a time (1964) when there was nothing doctors could do. 

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2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I appreciate the offer. Very much so. I'm sorry it just isn't doable for financial and health reasons. Thank you for the offer. Your kindness and loving heart won't be forgotten. 

I'd like to think my little sister would have been just like you if she had lived beyond the age of 5. It wasn't meant to be as she was born a water head baby (Hydrocephalus) at a time (1964) when there was nothing doctors could do. 

understand  but at any time open offer . I am sorry for your loss but know she is with you watching over you and you make her proud !!!!!!!!!  Hugs Hugs Hugs . It would be fun when we could all be making thhe desserts and maddy could tourch up the carmel on the deserts and make it fancy like they do on the food channel 

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@BethMacbain, if I hurt you with my posts then I am sorry; it was certainly not my intention. I find the abstract concept of a club with absolutely redonkulous entry requirements (seriously, these guys charge literally before they even look at you?) to be inherently funny. I still do, although after three days, the jokes on this particular thread have finished their shelf life. I'm British, class humour is our thing. And in our defence, a) we make fun of absolutely everyone, from Monty Python's Upper Class Twit of the Year to Hyacinth Bucket to Vicky Pollard, and b) we only do it because we know the class system is itself rather silly and nobody is really superior to anyone else, yet we still have a Queen and hereditary peerages. (And an NHS and a benefits system, because most of us, at our hearts, do believe in helping vulnerable and disadvantaged people.) It's silly. It's funny. One day if you're having trouble sleeping, I'll share my life story with you. I used to consider myself a social abseiler, but my life took some twists and turns, and a friend recently told me I was more of a social bungee jumper. Boing, boing.

I've reread my posts and I don't believe I treated anyone "like garbage". Anyone who disagrees is of course free to report the posts as abusive and I'll take whatever sanction results. I never make hateful or overtly offensive jokes about matters such as rape or disability. Almost all humour could offend SOMEONE. But I hope that you and other forumites know me well enough by now to know that I would never make a joke at the direct expense of an individual who was clearly struggling, or about their struggle. My jokes were about silly entry requirements. They were not about lonely people and fragile mental health.

The festive season is known to be a terrible time for mental health problems and I really, sincerely hope that you have whatever support you need to get through it. It doesn't matter if you're single, partnered, kids, no kids, parents, no parents, friends, hermit...you have inherent human worth, like everyone else, and you, just you, as you are, are enough.

Edited by Amina Sopwith
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I know this will sound harsh and it most likely is. I dont join the pity parties. I have ZERO sympathy for anyone who rants about how bad their life is as a way to defend their behavior. Life sucks, get a helmet. We have ALL had bad things happen. Death of loved ones, pets, friends. Loss of jobs, crippling injuries, mental health issues. How about watching your neighbor be dragged from her apartment by the police after having DCF called on her for child abuse and finding out you could have stopped it months earlier if you had done something? 

Yeah, that happened.. Talk about feeling guilt.. We all have issues, leave them at home. This isn't the place to air them.

To be on topic.. Paying someone 1000L for them to decide if i have spent enough on my av to further pay them 10,000L to join their club? Not happening. That isn't pocket change, that's almost $50 USD.. That's my gas bill. Or buffet dinner for the four of us. Not spending that to join some frou frou club in SL. I mean hell, thats half of a RL happy ending massage in Florida... TYVM Mr Kraft.. 

Now go have fun in SL, meet people, build something, make something or just sit on your sim alone.. SL as well as RL is what you make of it. You are only alone by choice.

 

IMG_1130.JPG

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1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

SL as well as RL is what you make of it. You are only alone by choice.

With the greatest respect - No. This incorrect.
I am a specialist cognitive disability assistant for the Dept of Education, and much more but those are irrelevant.
To deal with adversity it must be discussed and acknowledged.
Wow! someones cares. Then we laugh together and we keep laughing about the silliest things.

 
Every second counts, is precious and there are no second chances. Even in the forums.
Live it, Give it, Love it.
 

Edited by Maryanne Solo
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Drake,

  Beth was very brave to share  about her personal pain .From reading her posts she is a very private person . And i worry there may be more life things going on. 

 Drake please   know that when that day comes   as some of us here all too well know that day/days , THAT DAY   day when the i  cannot breath, cannot make sense anymore the horrible ripping of ones heart out/ the tears, not only from ones eyes, but the heart/ the mind numbing pain /the emotional pain so deep it makes you physically ill ....throwing up... you cannot eat.. sleep..  the fear... the desolation... the overwhelming sinking into the very pit of the worst emotional place ever ......and even this  description pales to what it reially feels like

     Know i and the rest will be here for you to love,  hold you ,hug you and love and cherish you through it and be your soft spot to land,

 We all handle our life situation differently and even the strongest of us will finally have the life /lifes events  be it lose of family memebers ,friends , loved ones,pets  that you fall apart but through the tears new strenght and understanding is born.

   From your post i sense you have /had pain as well the   guilt.......hugs hugs hugs 

but the pain Beth is sharing is the raw no real words to describe it . I have lost both rl parents and a child in utero , I have lost  relatives and friends. I know all too well the going to a store and seeing an item and thinking mom would love this and the sick feeling of if she were here then invades your whole body and mind and the heart ache wishing you could just one more time have that cup of coffee with her and listen to her jokes or your father as he tells you all about when he was your young age and in his time  things were different and  getting a tire cost ,,,,,,, I miss them soooo much ,,,,,

I think we all have things days events that trigger things. 

Never ever be unkind when one is honest enough about ones pain for you unless you are in their body you have no idea the depth the intensity of ones pain or how they recieved the pain and scars and wounds that only love will help heal.

Beth was very very very brave to share such pain and the only way pain is truly healed is by love and kindness from others .

   i have seen over and over in the forums that how one reads the topics replies is how one may respond due to ones perspective and experiences withing that topic.Beth was explaining why to her the club was important and that should be respected just as others replied that  clubs could not alway do cause a sense of not being welcome and those feelings need to be respected    sadly  some replies could when read through certain perspectives  may feel like one is being or has been attacked  espically if  in rl there is a lot of emotional stuff happening ,,,,,  so talking and clarifying  our statements so important  and since we cannot see each others real life faces  we can only go on personal interpertation of questions and replies 

  like my rl hubby some times i have to ask him to explain what he really means and am i understanding his point incorrectly   or what am i missing 

we have to talk to each other   and most importantly  not about each other 

and once again  feeling based on ones life be rl or sl experiences and how it was perceived and the emotional level and outcomes good bad etc w 

I cannot tell anyone how what to post only suggest alway be kind and understanding . And when funniny with others let them know they are funning . 

And as to the 

2 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

You are only alone by choice.

not always the true case.You never chose when a love one crosses over and losing a parent or both the overwhelming feeling of being alone ,,,, ask any grief counselor .... there could be many people   physically around you but inside ,,, its a whole different story !!!! And that pain you carry is  sadly yours and no one no one  no one knows your inner intensity  they can try to comfort but time love understand and being there and mostly love can help heal anothers pain.

 We are the second life family and we are here for each other and know Drake  you are loved and cherished and i understand your comment as well and valued  you and  Beth and every one here  and at the end of each day we are grateful for each other and everones  opinions and views how ever they are presented. 
I am sorry for the guilt you feel over the neighbor but again it may not have been yours to change if your heart did not lead you and this was your neighbors journey and  maybe your part is to love , comfort and hold the neighbors situation in your heart and prayers ,,,,  hugs hugs hugs to you   Drake and huggs huggs and huge huggs  and    love to all.

Edited by roseelvira
crying as i post
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Empathy is not the same as pity. 

Look, I'm also against airing problems like that on the forums, but for other reasons - this is public, so you can't control who'll read it, and I'm worried that there'll be people that will use information like that as ammunition to cause more hurt.
Most people, except for narcissists and sociopaths I assume, are aware that other people have problems too, and that life's not always sunshine ans rainbows. But that knowledge doesn't make problems just go away, nor does it stop hurting. That's like stabbing your own leg with a fork and expecting it to stop being painfull  because you know somewhere else  another person is in more pain? Yeah, you're nerves don't care about that. 

I'm also against people telling others to keep their problems for themselves (or at home, which is, in many cases, the same) because in the long run, that's what breeds mental health issues like depression because - guess what - people withdraw when they get scolded for trying to reach out and tend to internalize that. It'd be better to either leave them alone if you cannot help, or unwilling to do so, or to try to get them to actively search for professional help, or the means to help themselves. Or just offer some empathy and an open ear.



 

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On 10/20/2019 at 1:54 PM, Lindal Kidd said:

And I thought Frank's Place was too expensive!

I would be cautious about trying to join such a group.  It's been known for people to form groups whose sole purpose is to extract money from others.  You pay a huge joining fee, and then you get ejected from the group.

Frank's Place does allow you to visit if you are not a member of their exclusive club, though. (I did join when the fee was only L$500, and it does give you access to Frank's Elite club, which has some good events and performers and at least you know you're not gonna be hit on by creepers and mouth-breathers...)

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34 minutes ago, Sukubia Scarmon said:

, but for other reasons - this is public, so you can't control who'll read it, and I'm worried that there'll be people that will use information like that as ammunition to cause more hurt.

a very valid point ! 

 at times when we share  it does and can help someone who may have  or are experiencing the same or almost the same things. For some they may feel for comfortable talking about it on a place as this vs rl ,,,and the fact the Beth trusts us to hold her information about her personal pain in our hearts  with love and understanding . 

I do agree there are trolls that love nothing more than to cause inflict pain but there are also a lot on sl and in the forums that are dealing w many levels of pain be it physical or emotional and perhaps they will reach out in world to talk privately. There may be many the sl is the only outside they have . 

  love compassion kindness and empathy can never huwaysrt anyone.

   The greatest thing in this sl and rl is love and kindness and understanding.

 I do not think Beth was looking for pity and in reading and re reading  not only this thread but others  with other memebers there are replies that can be interperted in many  ways . Some time the most innocent of topics can go into waters no one could even imagine. Why at times the written word is hard as you cannot see the body language or look into the eyes of another. And there are some when it is hard to explain ones self or they feel they have to defend themselfs as to not be mis understood.

   We all have pain and some have gone through the fires of life some not so much but we can learn and gain for each others wisdom and learning and being there for each other.

    May be we need an i understand button or been there button or  this topic is hitting emotional triggers and i do not want to mis interpet the replies  . There are many reasons people come to sl and the forums.   never anything wrong with love kindness love understanding and compassion . Be it in the forums, on a subway ,  anywhere , just love each other and respect each other for  where they are in their journey be it in sl or rl . sending hugs  hugs hugs and love love love to all

 

  

    

 

    

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47 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said:

Frank's Place does allow you to visit if you are not a member of their exclusive club, though. (I did join when the fee was only L$500, and it does give you access to Frank's Elite club, which has some good events and performers and at least you know you're not gonna be hit on by creepers and mouth-breathers...)

It is a nice club  i joined when it was higher but left  due to the second life inflation , But i always liked Bogarts better and its free and great music and djs . There are other great music  venues out there for free as well. I always thought the membership was for the information to get to  faster then doing a search , i join  for discounts and upcomming stuff like costcos ,,,, love that store and they give free samples  Fridays best time to go  lolol wink  and the dessert isle there   whooot hoot ,,,, and yes today will be samples of sweet potato pie and holiday pies   

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14 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

 I do not think Beth was looking for pity and in reading and re reading  not only this thread but others  with other memebers there are replies that can be interperted in many  ways . Some time the most innocent of topics can go into waters no one could even imagine. Why at times the written word is hard as you cannot see the body language or look into the eyes of another. And there are some when it is hard to explain ones self or they feel they have to defend themselfs as to not be mis understood.

I don't think Beth was looking for pity either. I just think she got really frustrated and exploded and there was a bit more bottled up that came out with it. It happens, it's human. I'd hope she sees this as a prime opportunity to change something about it.

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A professor told his students a story:

One morning after a stormy night, a man went for a stroll on the beach. As he was strolling, he noticed that there was a shallow pond created in the aftermath of the storm on the beach and the pond seemed to be full with fish.

Even though it was only a few feet away from the vast sea, they were still trapped in the pond. The trapped fish amounted up to thousands of fish

Soon, when the water started to seep away and the pond slowly drying up, the fish would die in a short time!

However, the man did not find it amusing so he continued to stroll on the beach. He then saw a boy walking very slowly with both of his hands cupped.

The boy cupped his hands to scoop in water and carefully scoop the trapped fish into his cupped hands.

The boy then carefully walked back to the sea and slowly released the fish to the sea

The man stopped and continue to observe the boy and his method of saving the fishes’ lives. Finally the man could not resist and went over to the boy and asked him, “son, there are thousands of fish in this pond and you cannot save them all.”

“I know.” The little boy answered

“Oh? Then why are you still trying to save these fishes back to sea? Who cares about them?” This little fish cares!” The little boy answers as he picked up another fish and brought it back to the sea.”This fish cares and this fish cares too! And this, this, this….”

The story ended and the professor concluded that:

“Today is your first day at university. Everyone of you here will learn how to save lives. Although you cannot save the whole world, you can still save a few people’s lives and ease their sufferings.”

Your existence will make every person that you save lives a better, happier, beautiful and different life after being saved. You will all be able to achieve and succeed in this job”

Here I hope you all study hard, diligently and will not give up when failure arises! Remember: “This fish cares! This fish cares! And this, this, this….”

 

 

 

 

Edited by roseelvira
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Okay, well… there’s a lot to unpack here so bear with me.

First off, I’m okay, I promise. I had a rough couple of days, something that happens to all of us. I responded the way I did because I’m really tired of Luna desperately trying to find some sort of dirt on me or reason to despise me even more than she does, and her constant need to poke me in an effort to make me reveal my hidden evil intentions. We had a disagreement once and since then she’s been looking over my shoulder every time I turn around.

I’ve got crap, you’ve got crap, we’ve all got crap. My crap is no worse, no better, no different than the crap anyone else is dealing with. Crap is crap and it doesn’t have a hierarchy – it’s just crap and it all weighs a lot. My intention in listing my crap was to, hopefully, get Luna to stop fixating on me.

So seriously, I’m okay, but thank you to those of you who reached out to me! I focused my rant on my crap, but I can promise you that my… er… what’s the opposite of crap? The really amazing things in my life, and there are lots of them, far outweigh the crap.

@Selene Gregoire, you lectured you me on what constitutes being a snob and what good manners consist of. One could argue that your reaction was not something Emily Post would consider well-mannered at all. Your defense will be that you were talking in general, and not about me specifically. However, when you include lines such as, “Frankly, if you want to be a snob, that’s not my problem” when responding to me, you are very much directing that at me. Snobbery is not limited to people with money. Cultural snobbery is a real thing, and whether you realize it or not, you engage in it often. You look down on people you perceive haven’t had the struggles you’ve had in your life. Yes, you piss people off. Whether it’s intentionally or subconsciously, you do it, and when it has the result you’re trying to achieve – making people angry or making them feel like crap – you retreat into your injured dove routine. There is nothing wrong with being honest, or expressing your own truth, but that is not an excuse for being an ass about it. I plan on doing some reflecting on that myself because I'm guilty of it as well.

@Pixel, if you want to take swings at me on your regular account instead of hiding behind an alt, I’ll do more than wipe my butt with your opinion.

@roseelvira, the one thing Selene and I agree on (actually, it’s far from the only thing we agree on) is that the world needs more treasures like you. I love you to the moon and back for your truly gentle and kind soul. Everyone could learn to be a better person from you! The reason I’ll be alone during the holidays is because I don’t want to travel. I have a huge loving family, but we’re all scattered. We used to all gather for the holidays in my city because that’s also where my parents lived. Now they’re gone so everyone does their own thing. I would be welcomed with open arms at any of their houses. There is a whole thing about how reality sets in when you become an adult orphan, and it’s just part of growing up and growing older, and how things change beyond our control. It’s not so much that I’m sad about being alone for the holidays as it is just being wistful and nostalgic for the days when the family could all be together and missing my incredible parents. Thank you for your amazing invitation, though, and I love you!

@Amina Sopwith, I took great offense at being included in the ranks of the w*nkbadgers and being told I shouldn’t be offended. Yes, I do see how silly that is now and tonight I’ll be creating a w*nkbadgers group and the membership fee will be L$11,001 with a 100% discount for everyone except Goreans. A lesson that we could both possibly take away from this entire cluster of a thread is that we can’t decide for anyone else what they should be offended by. I don’t think anyone should be offended by people belonging to a members-only club, and you don’t think people should be offended at being include in the ranks of w*nkbadgers. Neither of us gets to decide that for other people. 

@Drake1 Nightfire, thank you so much for contributing to the stigma people who are suffering, or surviving, from mental health illnesses face. You are part of the reason that so many people continue to suffer silently, refuse to seek help, and live with shame as if a mental illness is any different from any other illness. Would you tell a diabetic to just will their pancreas to produce insulin? By spouting your nonsense, you are potentially driving anyone reading who might be going through a bad time, and might need a helping hand, to just keep quiet and just continue to suffer. Bravo, big man.

And, finally, @Luna Bliss and the Alts. Can you just stop now?

Now, onto the topic of this alleged club. I’m going to go out on a pretty sturdy limb here and say it doesn’t exist. All we have to go on is the OP who has provided very few details about this club, such as what type of club it is. I think most of us have assumed it’s a sex club because why would anyone pay that kind of money to stand around looking pretty and NOT getting laid?

But let’s break it down further – Has anyone other than the OP encountered this club, or any club that has a membership fee that is even close to that? Has anyone encountered a club where you have to pay a fee in order to be granted access to some sort of screening?

If the OP would like to contact me privately with the name of this club, I’m happy to go check it out and report back. Just click on my name and send me a message.

I can think of two places off the top of my head that might be what the OP is referring to, but unless things have changed since I joined them, the requirements for joining are not as presented. One of the clubs has randomly increased the membership fee over the years to levels that are in the thousands, but I don’t think it’s anywhere near L$10K. I could be wrong, though, and if it is that high, I have a few ideas of why that might be and who they’re trying to keep out, and it’s not the people most of you assume they are – it’s the trolls who get banned, create an alt, come back and join again, troll again, rinse/repeat. If the membership fee is that high, I think the reason is that if a troll chooses to continue to target the place, at least the owner will make a few bucks off their repeated harassment.

The other club I’m thinking of is owned by one of those men who believes he’s being edgy and cool by behaving like a complete jackass and this seems like the type of stunt he’d pull in hopes of being featured on virtual secrets again because he’s not been getting enough attention recently.

The only club I know of with any sort of assessment is a club without any membership fee at all, and the assessment solely consists of questions about swinging, partners, limits, etc., because it’s a sex club where they expect people to have sex and not just stand around. Looks don’t play much of a role in this assessment since… well, a lot of the members most certainly do not have the latest and greatest anything, and clothing is absolutely not necessary. The assessment is an attempt to prevent the club from becoming one of those places where people just stand around and no one really does anything, especially not the sex that is the reason for the existence of the club in the first place.

If I’m wrong, and this club does exist, I’d truly love to know the name and who owns it because I have no problem contacting them and finding out exactly why they have a fee that high, and assessment that stringent, and what happens behind the closed doors that is worthy of L$11,000.

I don’t know if I’ll continue to post here in the future or not. Whether the regulars realize it or not, this is a very closed society. Sure, anyone can post here, but being accepted is an entirely different matter. I sort of elbowed my way in about six months ago after a dozen years of not really knowing this place existed. These forums can be very addictive, especially to people like me who do love endless debates. I stopped blogging, I stopped most of my photography, I ended up spending my time inworld sitting on a couch and reading/posting here.   

Is it contributing to my enjoyment of Second Life? I’ve had a lot of laughs here, made some great friends – these forums also played a big role in my currently-fabulous love life. It’s also been an endless source of frustration, though. I’m not sure which outweighs which at this point.

But I really want to know the name of this club.

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3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

@Beth Macbain - I sympathize. Parents dead, brother is "dead to me", rarely talk to stepfamily. I deal with holiday depression by going in my shell, or spending it with my "family of choice".  We aren't all fortunate enough to have one of those.

Sometimes I'm not so sure where I end and you begin. You just described me to a T.

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26 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Sometimes I'm not so sure where I end and you begin. You just described me to a T.

please  do  not leave   as i said before  you and Beth have more in common than you realize. And i wish weALL   lived next to each other in rl then we could really understand. relationships are not at times easy but when we go through hard spots w each other  in the following days after reflection and self inventory we see we misunderstood each other and outside of sl we have other things and sadly it at times spills into sl ,,,, please listen to each other with a  loving heart ,,,, you say tomato i say tomoto  thing ,,,, no one wants to be misinterperted . There is no right or wrong just misunderstanding ,,,, i wish i could get you gals together and have a quiet dinner and play scrabble and talk and yes if you want bring wine or chocolate or fav icecream  , i make a mean chocolate moussee deserts    so please ,,,,, both of you please hug and make up , Selene may be having a hard day and  with physical pain issues and Beth you had emotional pain so put yourselves in each others place and try to see the responses as if you were the other person and true you may not have  responded that way but each has our own experiences and if one seems intollerent it is their way of deeling w pain and the world  and if we pull back the layers we are all hurting inside and all we want is to be understood loved and valued  i love you gals both so much please please please ,,,,  both stay and hugs and hold hands and now i want you to list five awsome things about each other ,,,, please ,,,, 

Edited by roseelvira
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8 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

please  do  not leave   as i said before  you and Beth have more in common than you realize. And i wish weALL   lived next to each other in rl then we could really understand. relationships are not at times easy but when we go through hard spots w each other  in the following days after reflection and self inventory we see we misunderstood each other and outside of sl we have other things and sadly it at times spills into sl ,,,, please listen to each other with a  loving heart ,,,, you say tomato i say tomoto  thing ,,,, no one wants to be misinterperted . There is no right or wrong just misunderstanding ,,,, i wish i could get you gals together and have a quiet dinner and play scrabble and talk and yes if you want bring wine or chocolate or fav icecream  , i make a mean chocolate moussee deserts    so please ,,,,, both of you please hug and make up , Selene may be having a hard day and  with physical pain issues and Beth you had emotional pain so put yourselves in each others place and try to see the responses as if you were the other person and true you may not have  responded that way but each has our own experiences and if one seems intollerent it is their way of deeling w pain and the world  and if we pull back the layers we are all hurting inside and all we want is to be understood loved and valued  i love you gals both so much please please please ,,,,  both stay and hugs and hold hands and now i want you to list five awsome things about each other ,,,, please ,,,, 

I wouldn't be at all happy if Selene left. She and I have differences of opinion on some things, and the very same opinion on others, and no matter what, this place is much more her home than mine. I'm essentially just a visitor passing through a home with well-established family dynamics already in place.

I tend to sit on my responses for a while before I post them, work myself into a good frenzy about them, and after I've rewritten, edited, deleted, reconsidered, weighed every angle, rewritten again, changed my mind, built myself up, torn myself down, hit the thesaurus, had an ice cream, googled supporting articles, reedited, deleted the entire thing again and started over once more, gone for a walk, work myself into a frenzy again, and then I post and immediately regret it. Selene goes with her gut and posts what she thinks and feels without going through convoluted steps I do. We both takes things to heart, and we both react with emotion. I still think we're more similar than not, and just as she didn't hesitate to tell me what she felt was wrong with my opinion and words, I did the same. The reality is we're probably both somewhat right, and both somewhat wrong, just like with pretty much any disagreement or argument about anything ever between pretty much any two human beings. 

I'm not going to tell her how I believe she should take my words because it's not my place to tell her how her heart and brain should interpret anything, and if she wants to join the Beth Is A Monster club, there's not a lot I can do about that. 

But I'm also not going to let her, or anyone else, tell me how my heart and brain should interpret the words that were said to me, and neither should anyone else. 

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26 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I tend to sit on my responses for a while before I post them, work myself into a good frenzy about them, and after I've rewritten, edited, deleted, reconsidered, weighed every angle, rewritten again, changed my mind, built myself up, torn myself down, hit the thesaurus, had an ice cream, googled supporting articles, reedited, deleted the entire thing again and started over once more, gone for a walk, work myself into a frenzy again, and then I post and immediately regret it.

Anyone who can write a line like this, has a place here.

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