Scylla Rhiadra Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 I'm not going to pretend to have a lot of insight into groups like this; I'm sure they vary widely, and that any generalization is in any case going to do them a disservice. I have no reason at all to doubt Beth's account of the reason she joined the group she speaks of: there is a logic to it, after all. The few groups that I do know that charge large fees for the privilege of exclusivity tend to be adult groups -- sort of "upper end" swinger's clubs, I guess? Or perhaps like an old "gentlemen's club," but without the gender exclusivity. I'm not a member of any of these, but I've been invited to them, and know them a little that way. What strikes me about those -- and again, I don't want to generalize from these to other groups -- is that what they are selling is not so much exclusivity per se, or "vetting," but rather a life style. Or at least the simulation of a life style. These are groups focused on places that mimic a certain kind of "elegance" and "high living," mostly (at least in the cases of the ones I've visited) based on a sort of late 50s / early 60s aesthetic. One of the places I've been to does this quite well: it is actually elegant and quite tasteful. Another, not so much: the aesthetic there is a bit cartoonish and heavy on the tacky side of things. What I'm suggesting is that these places are, in a way, about a kind of subtle role play. They are venues for meeting people, and having sex, certainly, but almost as much they are about role playing a certain style of libertine life style, based up the sort of "elegance" that Playboy used to sell for a $1.50 on the top shelf of newsstands. Here, you can have sex, while playing at being a sophisticated and successful "playboy" (or playgirl): the elegance and "good taste" are prefabricated for you. I don't know that this is any different, really, than role playing being a cyborg, or 12 year old, or anything else in SL for that matter. I'm not much of a fan of the culture and ideology that spawned this particular "lifestyle," personally, but it seems to me mostly pretty harmless. I think "snobbishness" or elitism has a lot less to do with it, at least in terms of the groups I'm thinking of, than simple fantasy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrah Abattoir Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Sounds like someone's business model really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindal Kidd Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 51 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: She doesn't need to leave. I do. All I do is piss people off. That's what being honest and frank gets me. No, no...don't YOU leave either! Darn it, I like you both. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amina Sopwith Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 I really hope nobody leaves the forum over this discussion, of all things. People feel the way they feel, but this particular issue, comically rich as I find it, really doesn't strike me as being worth that level of aggro. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClariceRose Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 I can understand both sides. I'm a member of some higher group fee sims. I also scratch my head at some sims that charge higher fees. I can understand the reasons for wanting to go to a sim that has mostly only people that you're attracted to. I can understand the people who think that those people in those sims are shallow etc. Some are, some aren't. You do what you want, go where you want, and pay what you want. If someone else has a problem with that, and causes you stress, then figure out a way to ignore them. Temp mute, block, avoid, etc. Our feelings can get hurt at what others think no matter which side of the fence we're on. Just agree to disagree. But remember, not everyone will be willing to do that. They'll want to keep digging, scratching, insulting. Walk away and let them waste their time and energy with someone else. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 9 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said: People feel the way they feel, but this particular issue, comically rich as I find it, really doesn't strike me as being worth that level of aggro. Yes there is something hidden here, and I really can't quite figure it out. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: Yes there is something hidden here, and I really can't quite figure it out. Would you really like to know what’s hidden, Luna? Really? Are you sure about that? Okay, fine, but you asked for it. We are approaching the two months of the year that I cannot stand and I was feeling rather raw about it yesterday. I despise the holiday season because it makes me feel like an utter, complete failure at life for not having a family of my own and I was reminded yesterday that it is right around the corner. The music is going to start any moment. The commercials and advertisements. The pressure at work to be full of good cheer and participate in all the gift exchanges, decorating contests, holiday dinners, potlucks, and whatever else Pinterest tells the cheerful people they should be foisting on those of us who just want to bloody well be left alone and not made to feel like we’re defective because we don’t have spouses and children, or big cheery extended families who all gather together and shower each other with gifts and love. The people I used to spend those joyous holidays with are all dead and I will be spending Thanksgiving alone, and Christmas Eve alone, and Christmas Day alone, and New Year’s Eve alone. Second Life, and by extension these forums, are a place where I’ve found comfort in acceptance. Nobody needs to know the truth of my life because it’s not anyone’s bloody business, Luna, and certainly not yours. Were my reactions yesterday too emotional? Did I take the topic too seriously? Maybe, maybe not. I didn’t deserve to be treated like garbage by Selena, Amina, Rolig, et. al., because I see something in a different way than they do. Yes, I pointed out the hypocrisy of calling others snobs when they themselves were looking down on me, and yes, as a member of those clubs, by extension, looking down on the clubs is the same as looking down on me and it made me feel awful on a day I was already feeling bad. Is that enough for you, Luna, or would you like more? Do you need to know how burnt out I am at my job? Shall we talk about my blood pressure, or perhaps you’d like to know the medications I take for my depression? Oh, and there’s menopause, too. Since you so badly want to know everything that I hide, perhaps I should tell you all about my feelings of inadequacy now that I’m beyond the years of being able to procreate, or facing the reality that I’m not a young woman anymore. How about the sadness I feel in the morning when I wake up and realize that nobody needs me any longer since my dead parents no longer need me to be their caretaker. I believe I’ll finally take your advice now, Luna, and shut up. You win. Congratulations. 5 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 And now to prove that i am the member of the Forum Regulars that needs to leave.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 35 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said: It's hard to know what the appropriate response to this is, Beth. Probably not a "like," but I've never really liked the maudlin "sad" icon either. Read my "like," please, as a gesture of support. Others can respond as they wish to your anger and upset. I just wanted to say that, well . . . I'm sorry that this thread has impacted you the way it evidently has. And that I'd really hate to see you go quiet here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixel Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 42 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said: Would you really like to know what’s hidden, Luna? Really? Are you sure about that? Okay, fine, but you asked for it. We are approaching the two months of the year that I cannot stand and I was feeling rather raw about it yesterday. I despise the holiday season because it makes me feel like an utter, complete failure at life for not having a family of my own and I was reminded yesterday that it is right around the corner. The music is going to start any moment. The commercials and advertisements. The pressure at work to be full of good cheer and participate in all the gift exchanges, decorating contests, holiday dinners, potlucks, and whatever else Pinterest tells the cheerful people they should be foisting on those of us who just want to bloody well be left alone and not made to feel like we’re defective because we don’t have spouses and children, or big cheery extended families who all gather together and shower each other with gifts and love. The people I used to spend those joyous holidays with are all dead and I will be spending Thanksgiving alone, and Christmas Eve alone, and Christmas Day alone, and New Year’s Eve alone. Second Life, and by extension these forums, are a place where I’ve found comfort in acceptance. Nobody needs to know the truth of my life because it’s not anyone’s bloody business, Luna, and certainly not yours. Were my reactions yesterday too emotional? Did I take the topic too seriously? Maybe, maybe not. I didn’t deserve to be treated like garbage by Selena, Amina, Rolig, et. al., because I see something in a different way than they do. Yes, I pointed out the hypocrisy of calling others snobs when they themselves were looking down on me, and yes, as a member of those clubs, by extension, looking down on the clubs is the same as looking down on me and it made me feel awful on a day I was already feeling bad. Is that enough for you, Luna, or would you like more? Do you need to know how burnt out I am at my job? Shall we talk about my blood pressure, or perhaps you’d like to know the medications I take for my depression? Oh, and there’s menopause, too. Since you so badly want to know everything that I hide, perhaps I should tell you all about my feelings of inadequacy now that I’m beyond the years of being able to procreate, or facing the reality that I’m not a young woman anymore. How about the sadness I feel in the morning when I wake up and realize that nobody needs me any longer since my dead parents no longer need me to be their caretaker. I believe I’ll finally take your advice now, Luna, and shut up. You win. Congratulations. Chill. No one treated you like garbage. You talk down to others around the forum and enjoy telling others what to do, but I see none of that happening here. It was all on topic discussion. Perhaps the forum is not the right place for you. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Just now, Pixel said: No one treated you like garbage. I most certainly did not treat anyone like garbage. I know what it feels like to not have a family of your own, both parents gone... pretty much everything she said described my 60 years of life (alone even when living with someone). The two differences are I don't have to take meds (yet) for blood pressure or depression. So I do empathize with her (and sympathize) regardless of whether or not she believes anything I say or have said. Even so, all of that combined is not a license to snub or snob. When you try teaching out to people, who are obviously in pain, and you consistently draw back a nub, you get to the point where you either stop reaching out or you don't reach out as much or as far. I'm not yet to the point where I stop reaching out but I am rapidly getting there. Why? Because time and time again people prove to be uncaring arseholes. As much as I dislike being alone, I'd much prefer that to being treated as inferior when I know it's bs. I give myself more than enough reason(s) to doubt my own self worth. I certainly don't need others to do it for me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Redstar Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Now, don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and skyIt slips awayAnd all your money won't another minute buyPixels in the gridAll we are is pixels in the gridAll we are is pixels in the grid..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kali Wylder Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 @Beth Macbain You are not alone. I have felt many of the feelings you expressed. I too belong to some "expensive to join", exclusive, adult groups for reasons much like yours, only I'm not as courageously outspoken about it. Those are my hidden groups. Hidden because my sex life is private, thank you very much. Belonging to a particular group because it meets the particular criteria you want may be elitist but, that does not define who you are. You're much more than that and so am I. I'd like you to know that I value your posts and would be sorry to see you go. @Selene Gregoire You don't need to leave either. Everyone has their buttons. Nobody knows exactly how someone else's buttons get pushed. It happens all the time. Some people are more open about their feelings than others. You are one of the braver people here and I want you to know that I value your posts and would be sorry to see you go. Now cut it out, both of you. I want you both to stay. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTUS Palianta Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 ((hugs)) Beth i agree with you there are a lot of people on this forum that think they are friendly and are not and it puts people off posting on here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukubia Scarmon Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 I'd just be to cheap for clubs like that. I know, it's mostly pennies, but still, I could buy new hair with those pennies instead! I understand wanting to not have to sift through all the mud, especially when it comes to (e)rp. I understand wanting to feel like belonging to something exclusive. I even understand that sometimes, people want to feel like they're better than others. I don't understand the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 It pains me to see people hurting as a result of participating here. Though I am unable to fully grasp where each of you comes from, I, like Scylla, Kali and so many others, want those of you who feel aggrieved to stay here. You are what brings me back to the forums day-after-day. We are going to cross wires now and then, but we're still a community sharing in the magic and wonder of SL. I am happy this place is here for all of you, and for me. Whether it's a creative outlet, a pleasant diversion, or a needed escape doesn't matter, I want everyone to be happy. Every day you people make me think, smile, and sometimes frown. You tolerate my quirky sense of humor and for that I'm grateful. If you feel like leaving, reconsider. If you decide to stay... thank you. 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I imagine we would all be shocked, and humbled, if we knew the burdens others carry. I suspect that SL is just the place not only for introverts but walking wounded. Years ago when I made my first holiday dinner in SL, on Thanksgiving day tons of people ran in to pick one up, and in talking to them it dawned on me: this family dinner was the either the only or the most important one many would have. SL is where their family was. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Just now, Pamela Galli said: I imagine we would all be shocked, and humbled, if we knew the burdens others carry. I suspect that SL is just the place not only for introverts but walking wounded. Years ago when I made my first holiday dinner in SL, on Thanksgiving day tons of people ran in to pick one up, and in talking to them it dawned on me: this family dinner was the either the only or the most important one many would have. SL is where their family was. So much this, Pamela. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseelvira Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Beth Macbain said: I will be spending Thanksgiving alone, and Christmas Eve alone, and Christmas Day alone, and New Year’s Eve alone. My beloved Beth just reading this now ,,, in tears come and stay with us . Seriously ,,,,, Will pick you up at airport train station where ever hugs ,,,, you are my family as well as the rest here in second life . Hugs and love and you can im me in world hugs crying ,,,, hugging you hugging you hugging you ,,,,, Edited October 25, 2019 by roseelvira 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseelvira Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) Please no one leave. Sometimes the real pain we feel in real life spills over into the forums. Just like real life when your partner husband wife sig other who ever has a bad day and gets snarky w you and you are already over sensitive becasue at your job you got ripped a new one by your boss over somethhing you did not do. I love you two both and i think the both of you have more in common then you may see. you are both kind and loving and very smart and articulate and o wish i coud write as well as the both of yous ,, you both have loving hearts and beautiful souls so much beauty and awsomness and everything good and wonderful in the both of you ,, please please please both of yous .. you have both had pain in your lives and both are survivors ,,,, and two strong together is better than being strong alone. Life is cruel enough we are each others soft place to land ,,,, please both of you .... i wish we all lived in the same neighborhood so we could sit talk hug laugh and cry together ,,,, please please please ,,,, both come back and please you are both valued and loved more than you will ever know love yous Edited October 25, 2019 by roseelvira 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryanne Solo Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I post silly stuff to make people laugh or roll their eyes. I don't want to see anyone leave the forums 8-( Nothing I ever type is to be taken seriously by anyone. Ever. Aeons ago, the forum was a disgusting offensive place. It isn't like that now. Not at all. Please stay 8-/ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 On 10/23/2019 at 4:06 PM, Beth Macbain said: Somebody else said: Quote Exclude, exclusion, exclusive all look pretty negative. Sounds pretty snobbish to me. By definition those who exclude others for whatever reason are the snobs. So... Wonky quote system is attributing the above to Beth but it was actually someone else she quoted. I should be required to go to 'freesexxors' and get it on with all takers on the poseballs by the landing point because excluding anyone for whatever reason would make me a snob? To the quoted person and those with that line of thinking... what do you think folks are doing in these adult clubs that have selective membership? Quoting Poetry by Emily Dickenson? There may be an 'P' and a 'D' set of words involved, but it ain't that pair... Do I mind that a place like Frank's doesn't want me there (they've never said that; their theme has)? No. Actually the clearer they are on who their theme is for the better. It helps me know I'm not going to find the action I seek. If I'm going to some exclusive 'adult' or 'date' venue - first it seriously helps to know which of those 2 it is... - and second it helps a lot to know that the people in there are looking for the same thing I am, and have the same set of "interests", be they visual, roleplay, generational, subculture, or whatever. I'm not a snob because I don't want to plop my avatar down on a poseball at a newbie info hub and take on all comers... On 10/23/2019 at 4:06 PM, Beth Macbain said: Yes, and the snobs here are excluding people who go to certain clubs based on baseless assumptions. - Yeah. And now that I've thoroughly run this through the 'adult' example - because the 'hookup angle' is usually the reason for this... let me provide a radically different example. In 2017 I ran a political discussion group... My failure to filter attendees enough probably helped kill it. Another reason was burnout - but that first thing was key. I wanted to organize with like minded people around strategies to address our interests. Instead I got several people who just wanted to crash in and disrupt or challenge us, and argue... It was NOT a debate group... or that would have been fine if also moderated. It was a group for people of like mind to connect and process current events and our movements together. - A group like that would be a lot better if it had exclusive membership one had to interview for. There are lots of reasons for groups to have selective membership. Some years back I ran into a group for people who were real world attorneys... You can get in legal trouble if you claim to be a licensed attorney, at least in the USA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Just now, roseelvira said: Please no one leave. Sometimes the real pain we feel in real life spills over into the forums. Just like real life when your partner husband wife sig other who ever has a bad day and gets snarky w you and you are already over sensitive becasue at your job you got ripped a new one by your boss over somethhing you did not do. I love you two both and i think the both of you have more in common then you may see. you are both kind and loving and very smart and articulate and o wish i coud write as well as the both of yous ,, you both have loving hearts and beautiful souls so much beauty and awsomness and everything good and wonderful in the both of you ,, please please please both of yous .. you have both had pain in your lives and both are survivors ,,,, and two strong together is better than being strong alone. Life is cruel enough we are each others soft place to land ,,,, please both of you .... i wish we all lived in the same neighborhood so we could sit talk hug laugh and cry together ,,,, please please please ,,,, both come back and please you are both valued and loved more than you will ever know love yous I wish you were my neighbor on one side and Maddy on the other side. It would be more like family than a neighborhood. We could all use more people like you two in our lives. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindal Kidd Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said: ... You can get in legal trouble if you claim to be a licensed attorney, at least in the USA. Paging Rudy Giuliani! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseelvira Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) Quote you too will pick you up at airport train station for all the holidays ,,,, you and beth and My rl hubby and me ,,,and maddy and anyone else who wants to come ,,,, i hate that already that the stores are selling christmas candy and halloween is next week ,,,, i will be handing out candy canes ,, in my family ,,,, all aunts and uncles are all over in the great sky plane save two ,,,, in my famly when there was a disagreement amongst the adults they would have to sit at the table and with a small glass of polish moonshine say what they were mad at then take swig it back then the other relitive stated their point and then drank theirs and note they each had to pour each others liquor ,,, and after each point of the disagreement and misunderstand and a few glasses of the liquor there were hugs and tears and the next day ,,,, love and a deeper understanding of each other . We are family here and i wish we all lived next to each other ,,,, life is soooo hard ,,,, and we are each others soft spot to land and hold each other with love and tenderness and joy and pride ,,,, for and in and with each other loves you all here on the forummsand second life so very much ,,,, Edited October 25, 2019 by roseelvira 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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