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Pics of Nude Avatars as wall art inside a Bellisaria home - violation?

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10 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I think it was because of a suggestion to basically arrange things in your home in such a way that nobody from outside might be offended...... or something like that maybe.

That was me. I honestly didn't think it would be so controversial. Not that a person shouldn't have what they want in their home but to simply be aware of where it's more likely to be seen as part of the process of arranging things, and to consider taking that into account. It's just a recipe for getting along so more people's preferences are met.

Why is that seen as such a problem? I asked for help understanding this earlier but that's been ignored. I honestly don't understand why suggesting this sort of awareness is controversial. What am I missing?

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4 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

That was me. I honestly didn't think it would be so controversial. Not that a person shouldn't have what they want in their home but to simply be aware of where it's more likely to be seen as part of the process of arranging things, and to consider taking that into account. It's just a recipe for getting along so more people's preferences are met.

Why is that seen as such a problem? I asked for help understanding this earlier but that's been ignored. I honestly don't understand why suggesting this sort of awareness is controversial. What am I missing?

I cannot answer for others, but I can give you my perspective here. :)

You can't please everyone. Nor should anyone be expected to. There are always going to be those out there who are simply offended by others breathing and that cannot be changed. My way of thinking is, it isn't any of my business what is in someone's home in rl or sl. It is also no one's business what is in my home. If I somehow got a glimpse of an image through a window that I don't like, I wouldn't continue to look. Simple as that. (I've never actually caught sight of items people have in their home by walking, biking, roller skating, horse back riding or boating by.) It just has never happened and I don't see how it easily could. I'm not out to offend or traumatize anyone. I try to be as kind as I can. I'm not going to go through all of our houses peeking through at each angle to make sure no one sees something that can offend. I have better things to do with my time. Besides that, my husband and sisters would be wondering if I had lost my senses. To me that is going beyond the necessary.

 I feel that people choose to be offended in many situations. If you are standing in a position outside someone's home where you see a nude artwork, religious item or even a photo of a celebrity you don't care for, it is easy to walk away. (Generalized use of you by the way.) It is really that simple.

If someone chose to cam into someone's house and they end up offended, that is on them as long as the person who owns said house isn't breaking tos. As long as the person owning the home isn't breaking tos set forth by Linden Lab, it isn't anyone's business what they have up besides that person and the Lindens. I think the people getting offended should perhaps be taking an inward look at themselves and their own behavior and feelings. Not getting offended at an image.

People can go overboard on trying to please everyone because it is an impossible feat. As long as I'm following the tos, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Same goes for everyone else following the tos. They are doing all they are required to do.

Please know this wasn't meant to sound harsh. I'm just giving feedback from my perspective. That's all.

 

Edited by LyricalBookworm
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5 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

That was me. I honestly didn't think it would be so controversial. Not that a person shouldn't have what they want in their home but to simply be aware of where it's more likely to be seen as part of the process of arranging things, and to consider taking that into account. It's just a recipe for getting along so more people's preferences are met.

Why is that seen as such a problem? I asked for help understanding this earlier but that's been ignored. I honestly don't understand why suggesting this sort of awareness is controversial. What am I missing?

Maybe it's because our homes are viewed as places we paid for/own and so there's a feeling home ownership rights should supersede public rights.  Contrast that with a public space where equal rights are more easily given to both parties.

* And in the U.S., individual rights in general more often supersede community rights. Well, unless you're a woman who wants to control their own body via being able to choose to bear a child or not.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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Thank you for responding kindly Lyrical. I appreciate it. I'd like to use your post to hopefully clarify a few things which may be being misunderstood by others too. I hope that's ok.

2 hours ago, LyricalBookworm said:

I'm not going to go through all of our houses peeking through at each angle to make sure no one sees something that can offend. I have better things to do with my time. Besides that, my husband and sisters would be wondering if I had lost my senses. To me that is going beyond the necessary.

Everyone who's gone into any sort of detail with their criticisms of my suggestions here has exaggerated, added into or even reversed my position.  I'm not saying a comprehensive investigation but just taking a glance through to see what it looks like. It took me less than 10 minutes to check out mine, including walking along the pavement from both directions. It really wasn't much. I did find something I don't like, a change in visual impact of a piece of art through the windows due to the dark wallpaper I'd been playing around with. Do others not do that sort of thing too? It seems a natural part of setting up a home for yourself, all the more so in a neighbourhood.

To my amusement, I also discovered that I have more ancient nudity/partial nudity than I realised. Comes of sliving with and studying Roman art for all this time I suppose :) I remembered Disco Bacchus (though with his bright blue disco ball, pride flag, flower lei and glittery high heels I suspect his wee marble member is the last thing most would notice) and the Venus on the half shell, but I'd forgotten about the other Venus, the Tellu Mater/Ara Pacis relief, John Bauer's very Venus-like Freja and that the Ladies in Blue in the not-really-Minoan fresco have jackets but not bodices :D. I'm really curious now how others would react to all of this. Does it read as curious old art or something else? My eyes are clearly innured to it.

2 hours ago, LyricalBookworm said:

If someone chose to cam into someone's house and they end up offended, that is on them as long as the person who owns said house isn't breaking tos. As long as the person owning the home isn't breaking tos set forth by Linden Lab, it isn't anyone's business what they have up besides that person and the Lindens. I think the people getting offended should perhaps be taking an inward look at themselves and their own behavior and feelings. Not getting offended at an image.

Might this not also pertain to those who've taken issue with my suggestions as well, especially when they've changed it to suit themselves? It's an opinion on a discussion forum, that's all.

Without the pushback, I wouldn't have felt a need to clarify and that would have been that. But maybe it's been good to clarify? At least if some take the time to better understand the point of view I've been trying to express.

2 hours ago, LyricalBookworm said:

You can't please everyone. Nor should anyone be expected to. There are always going to be those out there who are simply offended by others breathing and that cannot be changed.

....

People can go overboard on trying to please everyone because it is an impossible feat. As long as I'm following the tos, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Same goes for everyone else following the tos. They are doing all they are required to do.

Of course it's impossible to please everyone, my line of thinking has never been about trying to do that. But with a small bit of give and take - like putting something which might be controversial on one wall instead of another - maybe we can make an environment which is less Fortress MINE!!! and a bit more inclusive to a variety of points of view.

I personally think that is something worth working towards. I don't see how we're going to get out of our current societal messes any other way.

Do we give up or do we try to rebuild societies so they work for more people?

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50 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Maybe it's because our homes are viewed as places we paid for/own and so there's a feeling home ownership rights should supersede public rights.  Contrast that with a public space where equal rights are more easily given to both parties.

Is Bellisseria strictly private or does it not have a public element as well? I'm inclined towards the latter.

I agree that ultimately home ownership rights supersede public rights within our walls. But if a small change can make the outside space more comfortable and welcoming to a broader range of people, isn't that a good thing?

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1 hour ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

s Bellisseria strictly private or does it not have a public element as well? I'm inclined towards the latter.

I agree that ultimately home ownership rights supersede public rights within our walls. But if a small change can make the outside space more comfortable and welcoming to a broader range of people, isn't that a good thing?

 personal experience  from real life here in the USA

. First the home owners association. basically to make sure roads in winter were cleared and lawns mowed. BUT  THEN  they decided that every one needed to have beige curtain in windows facing the  road in the developenent to give a more uniform look ,,,, serioulsy. Then they said everyone had to use the garbage pick up people they choose ( there are a lot of trash removal companies here and NO it was not included in the hoa fees )but we had to pay individual and if we did not comply we were to be fined  ,,,,. And then they determined if you could have lawn chairs on your wraparound porch after october.....then what type of flower you could have because .....the next door neighhbor has the same kind,,,,,,, and to the person on the  board it did not appeal to her,,,,,  same with any landscaping  and then it did get to the "when you open your door we see the hallway has olive wallpaper  it does  not look pleasing to the eye with that door color"  ,which was mahagony !!!  i kid  you not  !!!!!!! So why are you concerned w my wallpaper omg !!!!!  ,,,,, and yes we moved ,,,, as did many others,,,,,,  staying with in the theme is one thing but telling people what they can have behind the privacy of the walls of there home when it is PRIVATE ,,, PRIVATE IS PRIVATE 

    Belli as i understand wants more community what i understand is social interaction   doing things with each other .  parties  shopping  get togethers  

 if the outside space is a public space  small changes  bacause it is public 

but your own personal space via your lawn or home  not happening ...... the upside   i promise i will not park my 67 camaro that is getting repaired  sitting  lifted   on cinder blocks on my front lawn ,,,, i 'll  tuck   that baby in the back 

Edited by roseelvira
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16 hours ago, roseelvira said:

 personal experience  from real life here in the USA

. First the home owners association. basically to make sure roads in winter were cleared and lawns mowed. BUT  THEN  they decided that every one needed to have beige curtain in windows facing the  road in the developenent to give a more uniform look ,,,, serioulsy.

Do all of you live in this sort of setting then? It sounds dreadful but are there no reasonable alternatives?

Can you step outside of it long enough to see what it's doing to your thinking? You're not just letting someone tell you what curtains to use - you're letting them influence how you think. I put forward a suggestion of 10 minutes of altruism and it's been met with derision, misinterpretation and scorn. Look at all the people here who've lost the ability to even think of something differently. All those who just slot it into their preconceptions and prejudices in order to laugh at it or dismiss it.

If the response to the self-centredness of others is to become self-centred yourselves, where does it end? From the outside it looks like a circle of mutual imposition of values onto each other where no one really gains and everyone loses.

Of all the things to bring into SL - where we can be ANYTHING - WHY bring these sorts of attitudes? Isn't it worth even trying something a little different? Or is it too satisfying to just put different down?

Edited by Bitsy Buccaneer
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21 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Everyone who's gone into any sort of detail with their criticisms of my suggestions here has exaggerated, added into or even reversed my position.  I'm not saying a comprehensive investigation but just taking a glance through to see what it looks like. It took me less than 10 minutes to check out mine, including walking along the pavement from both directions. It really wasn't much. I did find something I don't like, a change in visual impact of a piece of art through the windows due to the dark wallpaper I'd been playing around with. Do others not do that sort of thing too? It seems a natural part of setting up a home for yourself, all the more so in a neighbourhood.

This seems like normal common sense kind of behaviour to me, and something that I do also. Maybe the missing piece is that I, and maybe you aren't used to extreme reactions to everyday variations in lifestyles so aren't as sensitised to the topic? (also living in the UK)
 

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4 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Do all of you live in this sort of setting then? It sounds dreadful but are there no reasonable alternatives?

@roseelvira's description of what her Home Owners Association requires is an extreme case and, fortunately, very rare (in the U.S., at least.) When purchasing a home any HOA is required by law to provide their full covenant before the close of sale and it is the buyer's responsibility to read and understand it before purchase, in which case, having read and understood it, the purchase was made anyway.

Though, you are absolutely correct in that it must be affecting one's viewpoints, in that they would actually use that as an example when discussing a pretend playground virtual home that does not even tangibly exist anywhere but in our minds.

Edited by Alyona Su
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1 hour ago, Alyona Su said:

s description of what her Home Owners Association requires is an extreme case and, fortunately, very rare (in the U.S., at least.) When purchasing a home any HOA is required by law to provide their full covenant before the close of sale and it is the buyer's responsibility to read and understand it before purchase, in which case, having read and understood it, the purchase was made anyway.

It was a nightmare .The developement was build in the mid late 80s and the  HOA was a new concept in the part of the state we lived in. And  becasue of a little clause that at any time rules  and restrictians  can be added or deleted or restrictions can be redefined at any time.  That clause seemed harmless .And the bad changes to the deed restrictions  homeowners happened a few years after purchase and our state is  buyer be ware   some states are commonwealth law but we were told the buyer be ware is one of the things here. Legal counsel told us at meeting that due to the restrictions redefined at any time thing was why they were able to do what they did .And it did not have the all had to vote ,,,, it was who ever was on the board  could make channge add deleate redefine defininition of meanins of every rule to include or disallow or exclude   and all that legal so forth and if stuff  ,   Lesson learned.

Who would have thought  after a few years it went from making sure your car was in the drivway to ensure street could be plowed to  a person on the board with a control issue and    adding and changing restriction about curtains  garbage companies , flowers ,lawn furniture  , I still have the letter about my wall paper . .I do not want to go into more detail other than this person on the board was very very very nosy and felt that due to the position they had  ,,,lets just say  the person was power drunk .

And in our state reading and asking the agents  the deed restrictions more so now in building the newest of homes  you cannot have the same exterior as the home across the street or next to you .Or the same color brick combination. IF you really love a certain style and its directly across or next to your lot you have to chose a different lot or home exterior . its just crazy.

 

 

Edited by roseelvira
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32 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

It was a nightmare .The developement was build in the mid late 80s and the  HOA was a new concept in the part of the state we lived in. And  becasue of a little clause that at any time rules  and restrictians  can be added or deleted or restrictions can be redefined at any time.  That clause seemed harmless .And the bad changes to the deed restrictions  homeowners happened a few years after purchase and our state is  buyer be ware   some states are commonwealth law but we were told the buyer be ware is one of the things here. Legal counsel told us at meeting that due to the restrictions redefined at any time thing was why they were able to do what they did .And it did not have the all had to vote ,,,, it was who ever was on the board  could make channge add deleate redefine defininition of meanins of every rule to include or disallow or exclude   and all that legal so forth and if stuff  ,   Lesson learned.

Who would have thought  after a few years it went from making sure your car was in the drivway to ensure street could be plowed to  a person on the board with a control issue and    adding and changing restriction about curtains  garbage companies , flowers ,lawn furniture  , I still have the letter about my wall paper . .I do not want to go into more detail other than this person on the board was very very very nosy and felt that due to the position they had  ,,,lets just say  the person was power drunk .

And in our state reading and asking the agents  the deed restrictions more so now in building the newest of homes  you cannot have the same exterior as the home across the street or next to you .Or the same color brick combination. IF you really love a certain style and its directly across or next to your lot you have to chose a different lot or home exterior . its just crazy.

 

 

Oh, I get it, I really do. But when they start stipulating that a specific breed of grass must be used (even though it is the least thriving breed for the area - something I read about) and (as in your case) color or style of drapes - then I'd be looking to sell (!) - the one major plus in SL is how easy it is and costless to just abandon without repercussion. I so wish that were the case in First! Which brings us to the point in this thread: If you DunnLikeTheNeighbors - just pick up and pop into a new one in a different location. :)

Edited by Alyona Su
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35 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

lets just say  the person was power drunk

It sounds like it. it's one thing to walk down a street and think uncharitable thoughts about someone's curtains, it's completely another to legally oblige them to change the design.

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23 hours ago, roseelvira said:

,,,,, and yes we moved ,,,, as did many others,,,,,,

 i wrote we did sell lolol   back  a few posts 

up side we did make money on the property

Edited by roseelvira
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1 minute ago, Raspberry Crystal said:
37 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

 

It sounds like it. it's one thing to walk down a street and think uncharitable thoughts about someone's curtains, it's completely another to legally oblige them to change the

 If they can they will . In a developement with deed restrictions and HOA  better to have a lawyer look at everything before signing. . The person thought that the beige curtains enhanced the colors of the exterior of the homes. But once again the clauses that allow redefining and changes .Lesson learned  . 

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In buying a home in the USA alway alway always get a good real estate lawyer to read everything before you sign.  Be it new construction or resale,condo or planned community or farmland  get  someone who can understand all the wording and how it is phrased and anything that could be problem . 

        

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6 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

..........I put forward a suggestion of 10 minutes of altruism and it's been met with derision, misinterpretation and scorn. Look at all the people here who've lost the ability to even think of something differently. All those who just slot it into their preconceptions and prejudices in order to laugh at it or dismiss it.

If the response to the self-centredness of others is to become self-centred yourselves, where does it end? From the outside it looks like a circle of mutual imposition of values onto each other where no one really gains and everyone loses.

Of all the things to bring into SL - where we can be ANYTHING - WHY bring these sorts of attitudes? Isn't it worth even trying something a little different? Or is it too satisfying to just put different down?

Sexuality is a powerful energy, and as such both individuals and society at large seek to manage or control it, put boundaries around it, set rules. Perhaps those giving you pushback, rather than not being able to cope with "10 minutes of altruism", feel they have already given a lifetime of altruism and so are reluctant to do any more to appease a society that tells them sexuality is wrong, bad, and should be covered up on so many levels.

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I'm not sure if the whole of society has that opinion though? 

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

a society that tells them sexuality is wrong, bad, and should be covered up on so many levels.

Even the bits of it that don't necessarily want to look at it while they are eating their jam sandwich. (not a euphemism)

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9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Sexuality is a powerful energy, and as such both individuals and society at large seek to manage or control it, put boundaries around it, set rules. Perhaps those giving you pushback, rather than not being able to cope with "10 minutes of altruism", feel they have already given a lifetime of altruism and so are reluctant to do any more to appease a society that tells them sexuality is wrong, bad, and should be covered up on so many levels.

OK. Maybe. It's still a way of letting those who try to control sexuality into their heads though, letting them unconsciously influence their choices and thinking. It ends up giving even more power to those who want to control it.

In terms of sexuality, my guiding principle is that it's best to err on the side of consent, exactly because it it both powerful and precious.

(And just to state it again, I've NEVER advocated for removing nude or sexual pictures. Only for taking a look at what can be seen from outside and possibly rearranging some things.)

2 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

@roseelvira's description of what her Home Owners Association requires is an extreme case and, fortunately, very rare (in the U.S., at least.) When purchasing a home any HOA is required by law to provide their full covenant before the close of sale and it is the buyer's responsibility to read and understand it before purchase, in which case, having read and understood it, the purchase was made anyway.

Though, you are absolutely correct in that it must be affecting one's viewpoints, in that they would actually use that as an example when discussing a pretend playground virtual home that does not even tangibly exist anywhere but in our minds.

Thanks for the clarification Alyona.

2 hours ago, Raspberry Crystal said:

This seems like normal common sense kind of behaviour to me, and something that I do also. Maybe the missing piece is that I, and maybe you aren't used to extreme reactions to everyday variations in lifestyles so aren't as sensitised to the topic? (also living in the UK)

Where I am it's very much live and let live, and even the gossip isn't that bad. I'm definitely the odd ball but I'm accepted, quirks and all. (Hardly anyone understands life with fibro though, but that's always going to be difficult to grasp.) If your missing piece is what's at the heart of it, maybe the thread participants who are living in constrained situations in the U.S. can see my thoughts not as an imposition from the HOA from hell but just as a reminder that there are other possibilities. SL can reinforce unliked RL things, or it can be a chance to do it all differently.

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9 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Do all of you live in this sort of setting then? It sounds dreadful but are there no reasonable alternatives?

Home Owner Associations are something that we specifically avoided when we went looking for our current house 20-some-odd years ago.  A lot of the newer residential areas in Colorado (and likely most of the other states as well) have them and lots of people like them because they pretty much guarantee that someone won't bring down all of the property values by painting their house an odd color or having the outside of their home look like a junk yard.  However, I just can't handle having to have every teeny tiny thing that I want to do be approved by a group of folks who are mostly power freaks.  Most of the older neighborhoods - things built before the 1980s around here - don't have them.  We've never had any issues in the neighborhood I live in, which was built in the early 70s.

And yes, IMO, those HOAs are dreadful things.  They pretty much always control what color your house can be painted and they control just about anything that relates to the outside of the property.  While everyone that purchases a home that has an HOA, many do not read the fine print and get upset later when they want to do something (add/extend a deck) and the HOA says no.

The controlling of anything inside your home is mostly pretty rare, but it is very common - at least in Colorado - for the HOAs to dictate that the outside facing part of your blinds be a neutral color, like white/off-white/beige.

 

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Sexuality is a powerful energy, and as such both individuals and society at large seek to manage or control it, put boundaries around it, set rules. Perhaps those giving you pushback, rather than not being able to cope with "10 minutes of altruism", feel they have already given a lifetime of altruism and so are reluctant to do any more to appease a society that tells them sexuality is wrong, bad, and should be covered up on so many levels.

Per the part that I bolded:  I've always believed that that is part of why so many embrace the extremes of sexuality in SL.  Sometimes people get so tired of folks telling them that an aspect of themselves is wrong, so they go to the far opposite extreme for a while - partly out of rebellion.  I think that the US taboo on sex in general also is part of what drives so many to online porn.  While we are very opened minded in many ways in the US, our Puritan roots still rule in sexuality - at least on the larger scale.  We are getting better -- more places are allowing women to be topless in public - but we are still very far from our sexuality being viewed as a true normal and acceptable part of our lives.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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This is how I see it, that is your Linden Home your property. You are free to do what you wish as long as it follows TOS and the guidelines set forth by living in the Bellissaria community. So you should be good to have those pictures in your house. xD

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4 hours ago, roseelvira said:

The developement was build in the mid late 80s and the  HOA was a new concept in the part of the state we lived in. And  becasue of a little clause that at any time rules  and restrictians  can be added or deleted or restrictions can be redefined at any time.  That clause seemed harmless .And the bad changes to the deed restrictions  homeowners happened a few years after purchase and our state is  buyer be ware   some states are commonwealth law but we were told the buyer be ware is one of the things here. Legal counsel told us at meeting that due to the restrictions redefined at any time thing was why they were able to do what they did .And it did not have the all had to vote ,,,, it was who ever was on the board  could make channge add deleate redefine defininition of meanins of every rule to include or disallow or exclude   and all that legal so forth and if stuff 

to clarify again ,,,, the clauses that seemed innocent  enabled them to change the deed restrictions have someone who is well versed in   add  and redefine the terms wording and meaning  it gets really tricky unless you have  legal counsel well versed in that particular  area of law. etc. Had they had written about the curtains flowers lawn furniture,,,, we and others would have never bought there !!!!!!     A few years after living there we all got  a notice that  these  section blabla   article blabla is now being changed and in addition ,,,,,,, and it is not an extreem case  i have heard worse .

  its what they call bedroom communities both parents working   finishing college taking extra  classes etc   and in a few years   getting ready to start a family.  After  a long day at work  and  taking additional courses  the last thing you care about is curtain etc  Your so busy working and going to classes   the notices and letters  of changes gets side tabled . And that was what they wanted.  And thankfully now the hoa have to go through a process to make sure essential rights are protected for the home owner.   when we bought  our next home we made sure no HOA  ,,,, so again it also goes by the state in which one lives as well as the county in that state   in that it is not a one size fits all. Like property tax  some pay higher then other states . Same as traansfer tax. The state i grew up in the porperty tax  so high  ,,,,

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3 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

to clarify again ,,,, the clauses that seemed innocent  enabled them to change the deed restrictions have someone who is well versed in   add  and redefine the terms wording and meaning  it gets really tricky unless you have  legal counsel well versed in that particular  area of law. etc. Had they had written about the curtains flowers lawn furniture,,,, we and others would have never bought there !!!!!!     A few years after living there we all got  a notice that  these  section blabla   article blabla is now being changed and in addition ,,,,,,, and it is not an extreem case  i have heard worse .

  its what they call bedroom communities both parents working   finishing college taking extra  classes etc   and in a few years   getting ready to start a family.  After  a long day at work  and  taking additional courses  the last thing you care about is curtain etc  Your so busy working and going to classes   the notices and letters  of changes gets side tabled . And that was what they wanted.  And thankfully now the hoa have to go through a process to make sure essential rights are protected for the home owner.   when we bought  our next home we made sure no HOA  ,,,, so again it also goes by the state in which one lives as well as the county in that state   in that it is not a one size fits all. Like property tax  some pay higher then other states . Same as traansfer tax. The state i grew up in the porperty tax  so high  ,,,,

Okay but no one can dictate what you can put in your home, when it comes to personal items. It's your little sanctuary, now I understand if you are a part of home owners association or gated community, that your exterior design of your home is important and must meet community or city standards. But not the inside of your home.

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