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Pics of Nude Avatars as wall art inside a Bellisaria home - violation?

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6 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

Oh, Leora! I'm so glad you brought this up! I wanted to, but my better angel ( @Sylvia Tamalyn ) convinced me not to! But since you asked, well, it would be tacky of me to not answer. I'd love to revisit the Great Teddy Bear Scandal of 2019!

I'm about to go into a meeting, but rest assured, as soon as I'm done, I'll respond. 

This is going to be such a fun day! Thank you!

Be not too sure of that! .... ;)

I do not intend to answer!

I've had enough of discussing whether or not camming inside peoples houses to look at their furniture (inspired by curiosity and hoping to pick up some inspiration) is making me a " Mrs. Kravitz". I am sure that LOTS of people do it.

Edited by Leora Jacobus
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9 minutes ago, Leora Jacobus said:

Be not to sure of that! .... ;)

Sure of what? 

Edit: I'm not going to argue this with you here. Everything that needed to be said was said in the original thread and I stand by it. If you wish to discuss it further, feel free to contact me inworld.

Edited by Beth Macbain
Closure.
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There really is no privacy in SL.  If people look through your windows or onto your land, what they see is on them, IMO.  Unless it rises to the level of criminal activity.

@Pussycat Catnap, if it was me, I wouldn't worry about the pictures unless someone complains; then I'd weigh possible responses.

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ok  i guess one can  view camming either way ,,,,,  if you are in a mod  or general area and you cam is it like window shopping ,,,,, in the first generation homes i have had i would get ims of how nice my home looked or about the way i placed furnishing   inside  ,,,  the thing that weirded me out was the few who were going nuts trying to get past the bann lines    ,,,, now thats what is weird creep  to see that !!!!! seriously  watching another avi yo do not know do that ,,,,,, brrrrrrrrrr

      Remember sl is full of  DIFFERENT THINGS  .....

     Some into the gor or bondage  hitting thing.  

      Some into art taking pictures 

     Some  as i am into learning to build and create  things 

    Some  music

    Some  furries

     and forgive me if i  did not mention  others  soooo sooo many things 

  So respect each other and their gifts and reasons for being here

   As for the camming ,,,, until the labs come up with an anti cam  it will happen.

    And now chasing everyone with hugs and icecream and pumpkin spice cupcakes and halloween candy 

    

 

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6 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

...Anyway, as I recall, you not only "accidentally" (LOL) saw some things you did not like, you also attempted to ENTER THE HOME to get a better look. Have a seat, Mrs. Kravitz. 

I tried to send you an answer to that by message but was told you were not receiving any! ... so here goes...

I obviously did NOT enter "to get a better look" - I can take all looks I need (and screenshots) by caming as you well  know.

I just considered filing an AR and for that wanted to make sure if these people had "taken all possible precautions" ... which they HAD by orbiting me ... had I succeeded to walk in I might have filed ... so I didn't.

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11 hours ago, Leora Jacobus said:
On 10/14/2019 at 2:21 PM, Beth Macbain said:

Nudity is fine. Nude art is fine. 

Pornography is not fine. 

When long time ago I had stumbeled over some really horrid photos of real people inside a house by sort of accidentally caming through the walls (because I wanted to check if there was furniture inside) you seemed to be of another opinion, ;)

I had just enquired if perhaps I aught to notify LL about these RL hardcore porn PHOTOS that someone had plastered all walls of his house with ... and what I got was a xxxstorm about how I could DARE to intrude into this persons privacy and how he could have whatever he chose inside his house.

Since nobody actually addressed this exact comment:

I went back and re-read not only Beth's post that you linked here, but pretty much the entirety of that particular discussion.  What Beth said back then was that she liked hardcore porn and that you should not assume that having a teddy bear there was any indication of it related to kids.  Additionally, what her and pretty much everyone else was saying was that if you couldn't see it from outside, then you need not worry about it.

The link that Dakota gave says:   "and implicitly non-public adult content, such as private homes with a sex bed, that can be located on Moderate land".  The key phrase is 'non-public adult content'.

 

Therefore, in the case of Pussycat's question, which was specifically about pictures that CAN be seen by the public, her response of hard-core porn not being okay was totally correct.

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8 hours ago, Dakota Linden said:

Greetings All!

Nude art should be okay on Moderate regions, including Linden Home Regions that are Moderate.

 

This makes me wonder if there will ever be Linden home regions that are General rated.

If not planned yet, and I didn't actually miss finding them, I recommend such a product - maybe on a smaller scale than Bellisaria though. Plenty of people, not me per se, who I imagine would that.

I'm reminded of a Child Avatar friend I had many years back who came to me in a panic when her neighbors started blasting XXX-content and doing 'avatar on animal avatar action' when they found out she was a Child AV (this was in 2009 I think; before all the privacy settings existed - so they were deliberately trying to create a situation where they could AR her).

Had to show her how to abandon land and then we went shopping and found a great G-rated sim surrounded by other G-rated sims... but the amount of land like that is limited and not always nicely themed...

 

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does ll have adult  land for premium accounts???  That would be a way per say that thoses who want strictly adult to have that and let ll know so when you get your homes and they have the now homes campers and houseboats ,,,and that way like adult region release on mondays  pg  or moderate on wed and general on friday release ,,,,  and when you sign up and a box so when you are looking for home or to move abandon home  you will get the correct rated region ,,, just a suggestion,,,, 

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1 minute ago, roseelvira said:

does ll have adult  land for premium accounts???  That would be a way per say that thoses who want strictly adult to have that and let ll know so when you get your homes and they have the now homes campers and houseboats

Not exactly but sort of. Horizons sims north of Zindra - double prim 1024 roadside lots with a house rezzer system like Bellisaria, but which rez sci-fi buildings.

But they were put up for regular sale. Land barons got most of them and jacked the prices up.

 

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6 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

This makes me wonder if there will ever be Linden home regions that are General rated.

If not planned yet, and I didn't actually miss finding them, I recommend such a product - maybe on a smaller scale than Bellisaria though. Plenty of people, not me per se, who I imagine would that.

I'm reminded of a Child Avatar friend I had many years back who came to me in a panic when her neighbors started blasting XXX-content and doing 'avatar on animal avatar action' when they found out she was a Child AV (this was in 2009 I think; before all the privacy settings existed - so they were deliberately trying to create a situation where they could AR her).

Had to show her how to abandon land and then we went shopping and found a great G-rated sim surrounded by other G-rated sims... but the amount of land like that is limited and not always nicely themed...

 

Phew I missed the 'good' stuff, I was busy in 2009 and was absent from SL a while. What horrible neighbors :(

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12 hours ago, Cornelius Collazo said:

There really is no privacy in SL.  If people look through your windows or onto your land, what they see is on them, IMO.

But sometimes, depending on style used and location, a person might unintentionally see in through a window, especially if they're moving about the region in an immersive fashion rather than TPing. The houseboats are jammed in so close together I think it's worth thinking about it from the point of view of the neighbours' windows and outside seating areas. What might fall into their field of view?

I think it's worthwhile, in the interests of just being a good neighbour, to consider placement and perhaps something in a window to minimise what might be unintentionally seen from the outside. One-way blinds are an option, but even a plant in front of a window might do the trick without making it look closed-off.

I think it's something to think about, like taking a look at it all in midnight settings to see if anything set to full bright is adversely affecting the neighbourhood.

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i doubt it would be a problem..i saw a fleet of topless sailors sailing through the channel the other day so if thats ok, cant see how nude pictures inside ones home would be an issue

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I was speaking to a friend about this last night and he offered up what I think is a grand idea.

Since this is all entirely subjective, if you want to hang something on your wall that you aren't quite sure about, open a support ticket, give them your location, and let a friendly Linden or Mole stop by your place. They will let you know if it passes muster or not. 

I also think we need to be careful about how much concern we put into worrying about what others are going to think about what is on our parcel. It runs the risk of turning Bellisseria into a very well-manicured Stepford-type village and stifles creativity. What I find offensive is not going to be offensive to most other people. What most other people find offensive is not offensive to me. If my neighbor has all sorts of religious imagery around, or a shrine to Donald Trump, or even a gun hanging on their wall, I'm going to be horrified, but I don't expect them to remove the things that are important to them just to please me. It's up to me to derender them, or move if I find them that distasteful. 

Being a good neighbor can be defined in many ways. MYOB should be right at the top. 

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1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

What I find offensive is not going to be offensive to most other people. What most other people find offensive is not offensive to me. If my neighbor has all sorts of religious imagery around, or a shrine to Donald Trump, or even a gun hanging on their wall, I'm going to be horrified, but I don't expect them to remove the things that are important to them just to please me. It's up to me to derender them, or move if I find them that distasteful. 

Being a good neighbor can be defined in many ways. MYOB should be right at the top. 

THIS ^^^

Boobies are at the bottom of my"offensive list" (they are not even on the list, actually). I've seen bigoted comments made here in these forums that were way more offensive to me. I might report such a comment if it breaks the forum rules, but otherwise, I put the bigot on "ignore" and move along.

Same thing in world. See something you don't like? Derender and continue living your SL boobie-free if that's your thing. Don't expect everyone to have the same list that you have. 

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6 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

But sometimes, depending on style used and location, a person might unintentionally see in through a window, especially if they're moving about the region in an immersive fashion rather than TPing. The houseboats are jammed in so close together I think it's worth thinking about it from the point of view of the neighbours' windows and outside seating areas. What might fall into their field of view?

With Linden Homes, you can set the windows to opaque. Accidental street-voyeur issue resolved.

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1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

was speaking to a friend about this last night and he offered up what I think is a grand idea.

Since this is all entirely subjective, if you want to hang something on your wall that you aren't quite sure about, open a support ticket, give them your location, and let a friendly Linden or Mole stop by your place. They will let you know if it passes muster or not. 

I also think we need to be careful about how much concern we put into worrying about what others are going to think about what is on our parcel. It runs the risk of turning Bellisseria into a very well-manicured Stepford-type village and stifles creativity. What I find offensive is not going to be offensive to most other people. What most other people find offensive is not offensive to me. If my neighbor has all sorts of religious imagery around, or a shrine to Donald Trump, or even a gun hanging on their wall, I'm going to be horrified, but I don't expect them to remove the things that are important to them just to please me. It's up to me to derender them, or move if I find them that distasteful. 

Being a good neighbor can be defined in many ways. MYOB should be right at the top. 

AMEN  HUGS  HUGS HUGS  AND NOW CHASING YOU WITH    HUGS  CHOCOLATE MOUSSEE AND ICECREAM AND CANDY 

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4 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

I also think we need to be careful about how much concern we put into worrying about what others are going to think about what is on our parcel. It runs the risk of turning Bellisseria into a very well-manicured Stepford-type village and stifles creativity. What I find offensive is not going to be offensive to most other people. What most other people find offensive is not offensive to me. If my neighbor has all sorts of religious imagery around, or a shrine to Donald Trump, or even a gun hanging on their wall, I'm going to be horrified, but I don't expect them to remove the things that are important to them just to please me. It's up to me to derender them, or move if I find them that distasteful. 

Being a good neighbor can be defined in many ways. MYOB should be right at the top. 

I think we can take into account how our choices might impact others around us. As I suggested in my first post we can look to see if there are ways which let each of us have what we want while being aware of others, like how we position and arrange our items.

Think of the Winchester house -- put a large nude on the big wall in the front room and it will be visible from the street (and perhaps the neighbour's front room) unless something's done with the windows. Put it on the big wall in the back room and it won't be. If there's a neighbour back there without sufficient Linden landscaping, maybe add some. That's all I'm really suggesting.

Personally, I'd extend this to political and religious imagery too. I'm in no way saying don't have it, just suggesting that we might be aware of how much we have, how readily visible it is and also things like how controversial it might be. One campaign sign out front will carry a different impact than a "shrine".

Just keeping this sort of thing in mind certainly doesn't have to lead to Stepford or stifle creativity. Far from it. My creativity is wacky, cheerful and abundantly colourful, so I'm careful how I use it. I want it to be inviting not an eyesore. In my mind it's like being careful to find flowers with a good LOD so they don't look like a heap to the neighbours. Ultimately, it's a good thing we can derender and it's better to derender than argue over a neighbour's decor choices, but there's room in that to give a thought to where we put things and whether or not it might impact on someone else.

It's just being mindful of others.

Edited by Bitsy Buccaneer
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2 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Think of the Winchester house -- put a large nude on the big wall in the front room and it will be visible from the street (and perhaps the neighbour's front room) unless something's done with the windows. Put it on the big wall in the back room and it won't be. If there's a neighbour back there without sufficient Linden landscaping, maybe add some. That's all I'm really suggesting.

I know I'm going to regret this but...

I don't have one of the traditional homes so I have no idea what any wall looks. But let's say I do have one. And I want to put some very tasteful, in my opinion, nude artwork on my walls, and I want to be able to enjoy it, not hide it away in a back room. It's allowed according to the covenant and the adult content policy. I also don't want to waste my LI by putting up some shrubbery to block someone's view of my parcel. 

You're saying that I should either hide my artwork in my own home on my own parcel that is perfectly allowable on the off chance that someone might be offended by a boob, rather than expecting the person who is offended by the boob to just derender the boob? 

Which one takes the least amount of effort and doesn't impact anyone's enjoyment (or LI) of their own home? 

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I don't think we should send in a ticket before we hang up a nude. Both Lindens and Moles has said nudity is allowed.

It's waste of their time, they have better things to do.

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35 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I don't think we should send in a ticket before we hang up a nude. Both Lindens and Moles has said nudity is allowed.

It's waste of their time, they have better things to do.

This is only if you truly aren't sure if something crosses the line from erotic to pornographic. It's a thin line and it will be viewed differently by different people.

Edited by Beth Macbain
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2 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

know I'm going to regret this but...

I don't have one of the traditional homes so I have no idea what any wall looks. But let's say I do have one. And I want to put some very tasteful, in my opinion, nude artwork on my walls, and I want to be able to enjoy it, not hide it away in a back room. It's allowed according to the covenant and the adult content policy. I also don't want to waste my LI by putting up some shrubbery to block someone's view of my parcel. 

You're saying that I should either hide my artwork in my own home on my own parcel that is perfectly allowable on the off chance that someone might be offended by a boob, rather than expecting the person who is offended by the boob to just derender the boob? 

Which one takes the least amount of effort and doesn't impact anyone's enjoyment (or LI) of their own home? 

No I'm not saying that. But thank you for asking instead of dropping a hateful meme on me this time.

For starters, I haven't used any "should" language at all. Please don't add it in.

The Winchester is the ubiquitous traditional model so I thought it would be useful as an example. My apologies for not realising you wouldn't know it off hand. It's the biggest traditional. The front room is small but has three windows, two on the front and a double on the side. Whatever is put on the remaining wall can be quite visible from the street, especially if it's large. The back room is hardly hidden away, that's a bit of a leap you've made there. It's larger, with a big open doorway from the entry hall, two windows and a windowed double door to the outside. I used it as an illustration of how placement can change an object's potential impact and an example many in Bellisseria would be immediately familiar with and able to visualise easily.

There's a bit of wall between the two front windows. Something placed there wouldn't be visible from the street either, but the positioning could be awkward aesthetically. A display of standing photo frames on a table in front of the window would be better for that space I think. Again, this isn't prescriptive. It is just an example of how doing something a bit differently can change how it might impact others. Put it on one wall, anyone walking by can see it. Put it somewhere else and they'll only see it if they work at it. You and your guests would be able to enjoy your tasteful nudes in the front room. Those passing by would have no idea they're there.

Adding some landscaping is fairly common for the house dwellers, so the idea of putting something in the line of view (if the Linden landscaping isn't enough) for the back isn't wasting LI. It's just a variation on the point I've been trying to make throughout - changing the position of something can change who might see it.

Again, none of this is prescriptive. No "shoulds" at all. No anti-nudity or anti-nude art. (I've been selling Roman antiquities for eight years after all :) ) It is simply putting forward the suggestion that we can choose to be aware of how what we do might impact neighbours and passersby and we can choose what we want to do with that awareness.

You suggested before that this would stifle creativity. I'm saying a little creativity in how you organise a room can make it work well for everyone.

That's all. Please don't read things into it that I haven't said.

Edited by Bitsy Buccaneer
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