Chat Logs & SL TOS

[MajikVixen Lorefield]

Greetings...

Would be great if an actual Linden would chime in... I would trust @Lindal Kidd as well...

...Just asked the Premium Chat, and they are not allowed to interpret legal here, so I'm at a loss...

• I do need clarification.
• It's about sharing chat logs...
• I have not done so, but a couple of important people, a group leader and a meeting leader are insisting that if you e-mail them (outside the platform of SL) that it does not break the TOS.  I do not think this is true. I believe there is no loop-hole as such.
• How can I be sure?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

4 hours ago, BlueVioletVixen Lorefield said:

I've read the ToS quite a few times, and the loop-hole still caught me by surprise.  It's not exactly clear (I did mention earlier that there can be children, foreigners, ppl with [cognitive] disabilities/disadvantages, etc., stumbling into and becoming accustomed to what they believe is a wondrously pleasant SL (as they may be escaping RL), and they may not be aware they need to either: A) hire a lawyer, or B) know boundaries on who exactly they can trust)...

That holds true for any interaction between two people. Be it SL, RL, online, Facebook, whatever. 

4 hours ago, BlueVioletVixen Lorefield said:

It's not exactly like RL, where yes, stores/public places of business will likely have video cameras... But you really don't think some friend you invite into your home will be recording everything you say so they can later use it against you, because you're busy doing the very intimate thing of hanging out and watching TV - in SL, everything you type can be recorded, sure ... But I felt safe, knowing that chat logs cannot be shared -just- I didn't realize they can be shared outside of SL (per the asinine loop-hole) (LL really ought to take a copyright of everything said/done in SL to prevent this, but, OMG, that's another can of worms).  In RL, I might know where someone I invited into my home lives or works... I can politely confront them, or see the expression on their face or their body language to judge whether or not (or how far) to trust them.  It's not the same in SL.  Not everyone emotes.  Not everyone voices.  Not everyone has Bento.  Everyone can make an alt.  Cultures from all over the world.  Barriers.  Etc.  Etc.

Not exactly. Your friends in your house analogy isnt quite what happens in SL.. You're Not  texting your friend in your house to hold a conversation, you are talking. Voice in SL isnt recorded, to my knowledge. Again, there is no ToS for ANY service that protects you from having your chatlogs/text messages/IMs shared outside their platform. I never understood why anyone would think chatlogs would be unable to be posted outside a platform. 
Copyright protecting everything that happens within SL cant be done. If i make a video in SL that becomes MY video with my digital protection on it, not LL. If i compose a poem in a notecard and then save it to my PC, that is MY work not LL. I will never understand why some people get so upset over chat logs being shared on an obscure website.. 

4 hours ago, BlueVioletVixen Lorefield said:

...So, if this is the case, then perhaps the "obvious" needs to be pointed out in the ToS, i.e., "Please consult your attorney, if you cannot clearly interpret our ToS..." And I guess, never mind the fitting Miranda Rights part to this chat-log loop-hole where, "you have the right to remain silent..." "...anything you say and do can and will be used against you in a court of law..." "...you have the right to an attorney..." "...if you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed to you, at no cost..." 😆

Miranda has no bearing on ToS or contracts. What you quoted was obviously from a TV show as it is NOT the actual Miranda Warning.. 

"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you in court. You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before we ask you any questions. You have the right to have a lawyer with you during questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish. If you decide to answer questions now without a lawyer present, you have the right to stop answering at any time." 

Keywords there.. Questioning.

And again.. A ToS is a legally binding contract. Anyone who scoffs at having a lawyer look it over if they dont understand it gets what they deserve. 

 

[MajikVixen Lorefield]

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

That holds true for any interaction between two people. Be it SL, RL, online, Facebook, whatever. 

*nods*

 

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Not exactly. Your friends in your house analogy isnt quite what happens in SL.. You're Not  texting your friend in your house to hold a conversation, you are talking. Voice in SL isnt recorded, to my knowledge. 

True... But typing is how I talk in SL. 

One could arguably record someone else's voice from SL, without the speaker's knowledge, too.

 

2 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Again, there is no ToS for ANY service that protects you from having your chatlogs/text messages/IMs shared outside their platform. I never understood why anyone would think chatlogs would be unable to be posted outside a platform. 
Copyright protecting everything that happens within SL cant be done. If i make a video in SL that becomes MY video with my digital protection on it, not LL. If i compose a poem in a notecard and then save it to my PC, that is MY work not LL. I will never understand why some people get so upset over chat logs being shared on an obscure website.. 

I did not think of it that way.  One might be used to this.

SL is vastly different.  Kinda wish there was a fail-safe idiot-proof mode when it comes to important things.

"Being an adult is great because you can eat M&Ms for breakfast!  ...No, wait, it's not worth the BS I have to trade for it... Can I just go back to eating vegetables and cleaning my room?  --I'll be good, I promise!"  😛

 

2 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Miranda has no bearing on ToS or contracts. What you quoted was obviously from a TV show as it is NOT the actual Miranda Warning.. 

"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you in court. You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before we ask you any questions. You have the right to have a lawyer with you during questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish. If you decide to answer questions now without a lawyer present, you have the right to stop answering at any time." 

Keywords there.. Questioning.

Yes, I know.  Apparently, my joke was not very funny.  *shrugs & goes back to watching SVU*

 

2 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

And again.. A ToS is a legally binding contract. Anyone who scoffs at having a lawyer look it over if they dont understand it gets what they deserve. 

That video's hilarious!!!

And no, I wasn't scoffing at having a lawyer look at something...  Just, every time we turn around, something costs money.  Being human or flawed, costs money!  ...I'm surprised nobody thought to nickel and dime us for the air we breathe!  

[Velk Kerang]

I always found it interesting if not amusing they even try to regulate this. lol It's just another way for people to cry about something in order to get someone else in trouble for some stupidness they went and got themselves in to for the most part rather then watch what they are saying to people in the first place in most cases. People have been sharing chat logs since the birth of SL. Nothing new about it. That's why I make it an express point not to say anything I don't have the guts to say in front of the entire world. Which there really isn't anything I wouldn't be afraid to say so for me personally I don't care what anyone shares of mine. If I get asked if I said it my response is generally yes I did and your point? What you gonna do about it? lol

[Velk Kerang]

15 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

That's certainly one way to look at it.  People should indeed be much more careful about what they put in writing.  At the same time, there are situations in which you can say something confidential to a person who should be trustworthy but who turns around and repeats your words to the world.  It's a familiar dilemma:  Who do you trust, and how much do you say?  The easy solution, as you suggest, is to retreat into paranoia and never say anything that you wouldn't want to see plastered on a billboard.  The trouble with that it puts all the blame for any bad feelings back entirely on you when, in fact, at least part of the blame belongs to the person that you trusted to keep her fat mouth shut.  

In the end, we have to trust each other.  We also have to take reasonable care not to say things that might come back to bite us later.  Somewhere in that balance there should be an understanding that if someone tells you something confidential, you shouldn't repeat it without permission.

I agree with you entirely. For me personally though I am not that way because I am paranoid. I just have an old school military mind set and I just simply do not care. I give everyone a fair chance and if they betray my trust for no good reason then I am pretty much done with them at that point. I keep it simple like that. I say no good reason because I've had people come to me with stuff and ask for advice. I'd give my advice and then kindly remind them we did not have this conversation and I don't recommend speaking to anyone else about said situation I got asked about. I have also had people around me who have shared stuff trying to be funny that they had no business sharing which to put it politely sparked a very negative reaction and a not so kind response. I pretty much let them know straight to the point they are a snake in the grass and I don't play that. I don't come on here to purposely be mean to anybody and hurt peoples feelings. So ya I agree with you 110% sister. People need to be able to trust and respect one another and if not then at the very least they need to do then is learn when and how to shut it the heck on up and act like they got some sense. lol