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MelodyClone1

What is the benefit of BoM exactly, besides salvaging old skins?

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I watched some videos but I don't see a really significant benefit to this BoM besides skins? Yeah you no longer have to chuck out old skins now, but besides that is there anything else I'm missing? I mean it's great you can now paint system layer clothing onto your mesh body, but who even does that when it's the exact same affect as applier clothing, which no one uses? Even for lingerie and stockings you'd want some 3D depth so everyone buys mesh versions of those as well. BoM pants or skirt? Yuck, yeah if you want to look like a 2006 avatar I guess.

If the whole point of BoM was just to salvage old skins... well then I guess disregard this post.

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You are right, you're missing something, as the "old" mesh body's do not have BOM they have a body layer for every layer, the skin, underwear, tattoo's. up to 5 layers, that means you are wearing 5 mesh body's on top of each other.

With BOM the SL server will bake the different textures together to a single layer and that texture will be applied to the mesh body. that means you can get rid of 4 layers of mesh body, cutting the overall complexity to 1/4, this will reduce the overall lag in places where there are a lot of avatars considerably.

i hope this will explain the underlying reasoning for BOM.

Regards and have fun ;)

 

Edited by Kardargo Adamczyk
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2 hours ago, MelodyClone1 said:

I watched some videos but I don't see a really significant benefit to this BoM besides skins? Yeah you no longer have to chuck out old skins now, but besides that is there anything else I'm missing? I mean it's great you can now paint system layer clothing onto your mesh body, but who even does that when it's the exact same affect as applier clothing, which no one uses? Even for lingerie and stockings you'd want some 3D depth so everyone buys mesh versions of those as well. BoM pants or skirt? Yuck, yeah if you want to look like a 2006 avatar I guess.

If the whole point of BoM was just to salvage old skins... well then I guess disregard this post.

It allows your skin to use skin add-ons like freckles, makeup and tattoos without needing to have them on separate layers that are hard on the graphics system and are prone to alpha-sorting glitches, and it makes it possible to use alpha wearables to hide parts of your mesh body instead of using an alpha-cut system. Alpha cuts are heavily scripted, sometimes unreliable and require your body to be made from over a hundred individual meshes

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7 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Alpha cuts are heavily scripted, sometimes unreliable and require your body to be made from over a hundred individual meshes

Emphasising that bit about mesh bodies being made from all of those individual meshes....

A single mesh piece can have up to 8 areas which are set to allow different texturing. You can get an idea of how much data this is by going to the alpha cuts hud with your mesh body and counting up all of the groups of 8. That's how many individual 8-faced meshes are on ONE LAYER of your onion-skinned body. Now multiply that by the number of layers your particular onion-skinned body has.

Every one of those meshes adds to the download and render weight for your body. Every face adds to the download and render weight of your body.

BOM allows for the possibility of returning to a single custom alpha clothing layer and that allows for mesh bodies with enormously fewer individual mesh pieces and faces. And that means less strain on servers, downloaded data and your computer - every component of the pipeline of getting your appearance (and everyone else who switches) rendered on your computer.

 

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13 hours ago, MelodyClone1 said:

I watched some videos but I don't see a really significant benefit to this BoM besides skins? Yeah you no longer have to chuck out old skins now, but besides that is there anything else I'm missing? I mean it's great you can now paint system layer clothing onto your mesh body, but who even does that when it's the exact same affect as applier clothing, which no one uses? Even for lingerie and stockings you'd want some 3D depth so everyone buys mesh versions of those as well. BoM pants or skirt? Yuck, yeah if you want to look like a 2006 avatar I guess.

If the whole point of BoM was just to salvage old skins... well then I guess disregard this post.

A lot of people do use applier clothing; to layer under closely fitting mesh, to make a quick to load outfit for shopping at fairs and events and for other reasons too.  I get asked for more applier items all the time.  

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I don't think I can use BoM as much as I want before some newer and better skins is made for BoM, not appliers.

I spent some time with my Malt and his Daniel head. I was very exited, and tried on Aeros, Ispachi, Hermony and The Body Co skins. Nothing could beat the Stray Dog skins they had. Especially the nose had some issues where the skin was drawn to fit the old shape nose.

But oh, Marianne has many old skins. I recently unpacked a huge box of old skins. Going through it, I found only a couple that fits "well enough". Disappointing. Another female I have, she has few skins. I found one that I like well enough. That's the fun part, the skins is not for sale anymore, and many who had them, have deleted them. I feel a bit "special" because thay are rare.

I look forward to the future with BoM, when I don't have to mess with all the makeup slots. Lower/upper this and that. To wear blush, hairbase, eyeshadow, eyeliner, lipstick, neck tattoo and eyebrows, I must manipulate all those makeup slots correctly. I can't even put on all those on a LeLutka head. Not enough makeup slots. I have used almost no makeup with mesh heads.

For BoM, it is as simple as add the layers, no Hud, no slots to click on and off, no Hud to store different makeups in. Those free add-on storage Huds from Catwa is huge, load slow and is so complicated, I don't bother to use them. My Malts use Catwa heads, and applying beards can use three different slots. Hairbase two. And they have to be applied correct to not ruin the tattoo. Then eyebrows. Ugh. It will be more easy to mix and match to get the looks now.

Another thing is that I don't have to make copies of the body with the correct textures and save them with outfits. Or save textured heads. Or make a copy of a makeup Hud and store the makeup in. I save the outfit with tattoo layers and just wear it. No appliers to pull out, no Huds.

I lost my eyes last Halloween because I was using an eyes applier with yellow eyes. And I could not remember what the old eye applier was named. I had been wearing them 4 months. That is the problem. It is so easy to apply and get the look you want. Then texture it with something else, and unless I had saved a copy of the body parts in a special folder, I can't find it.

 

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I'm not wanting to use this brand new tech to resurrect old skins. I'm super excited that finally I can wear tattoos with my favorite body details like veins and blemishes and freckles along with tan lines when appropriate and I have zero glitching problems and am not limited to only 3 layers. Currently, I'm wearing my system skin along with 8 system tattoo layers all baked into one texture applied to my skin. I love that this also is reducing texture lag. My mesh body rezzes faster now too. I can't wait until I can get a corresponding tattoo for my mesh head and makeup. I'm just waiting on my skinner to update her head appliers or release brand new head tattoos to make the switch. So far, I'm really loving the change on my body. 

It will get even better once my body is updated to an official BoM body. I'm hoping that the number of onion layers will reduce to no more than one. I'm not all that hopeful that the alpha cut system will go away since so much of the mesh clothing we use now depends on it but I would welcome it with open arms if it helps to reduce lag, which is would.

Edited by Blush Bravin
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1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

I'm not wanting to use this brand new tech to resurrect old skins. I'm super excited that finally I can wear tattoos with my favorite body details like veins and blemishes and freckles along with tan lines when appropriate and I have zero glitching problems and am not limited to only 3 layers. Currently, I'm wearing my system skin along with 8 system tattoo layers all baked into one texture applied to my skin. I love that this also is reducing texture lag. My mesh body rezzes faster now too. I can't wait until I can get a corresponding tattoo for my mesh head and makeup. I'm just waiting on my skinner to update her head appliers or release brand new head tattoos to make the switch. So far, I really loving the change on my body. 

It will get even better once my body is updated to an official BoM body. I'm hoping that the number of onion layers will reduce to no more than one. I'm not all that hopeful that the alpha cut system will go away since so much of the mesh clothing we use now depends on it but I would welcome it with open arms if it helps to reduce lag, which is would.

I hope some of the large brands get out BoM skins. I am thinking: If they sell a Catwa applier, haven't they already uploaded the textures? Do they need to change it? It is the same texture as in the applier, right?

I am not 100% on board with Slinks decision to scrap all layers. I hope the other bodies go down to one layer, but stop there. For heads, they could have 1-3 full head tattoos. Sometimes makeup look better with materials. It has to be easier for the system, than all the makeup slots now.

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I put together an outfit this morning with hair, clothes, shoes and makeup - wearing a Slink bakes on mesh head and Slink Redux bakes on mesh body my complexity was under 25k. Although I am super excited to wear my old stuff, lowering avatar complexity is a huge benefit of BoM too.

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There's a few skin creators already working on BoM skins.

I just recently grabbed a BoM skin at the Baroqued Gothica event myself.

 

A few skin creators? who are they, where are their stores?

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On 10/13/2019 at 1:11 PM, Marianne Little said:

I don't think I can use BoM as much as I want before some newer and better skins is made for BoM, not appliers.

Also, the BOM only has albedo information.  No normal.  No specular.  So, a BOM skin just can't have the apparent depth that can be applied to mesh by other means.

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I have been in SL for 13 years. I have a ton of vintage clothing from Ivalde. I saved it all just cuz I couldn't throw it out. I really missed flexi skirts for dancing in.

I regularly wear my old Ivalde dresses and they still hold up. She was an amazing creator. So very happy  to bring these back to life.

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8 hours ago, Madison Talon said:

I have been in SL for 13 years. I have a ton of vintage clothing from Ivalde. I saved it all just cuz I couldn't throw it out. I really missed flexi skirts for dancing in.

I regularly wear my old Ivalde dresses and they still hold up. She was an amazing creator. So very happy  to bring these back to life.

Ditto this. And *always* a perfect fit.

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5 hours ago, Fauve Aeon said:

So where does this leave materials? I really don’t want to give them up at all. 😱

Materials are the primary reason there is a neck seam between head and body when each are from a different creator. Because BOM doesn't use materials, BOM skin will have no seam at the neck, even if the body or head is still using applier when the other is BOM.

Edited by Alyona Su
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6 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

Materials are the primary reason there is a neck seam between head and body when each are from a different creator. Because BOM doesn't use materials, BOM skin will have no seam at the neck, even if the body or head is still using applier when the other is BOM.

Isn't the reason why there's a seam between two pieces of mesh because their verts and/or vertex normals and/or UV don't line up? I mean sure, if one has materials and the other doesn't, there's going to be a noticeable seam under certain lighting, but that's not the main reason because you can still have materials on a BOM surface. 

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14 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:
6 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

Materials are the primary reason there is a neck seam between head and body when each are from a different creator. Because BOM doesn't use materials, BOM skin will have no seam at the neck, even if the body or head is still using applier when the other is BOM.

Isn't the reason why there's a seam between two pieces of mesh because their verts and/or vertex normals and/or UV don't line up? I mean sure, if one has materials and the other doesn't, there's going to be a noticeable seam under certain lighting, but that's not the main reason because you can still have materials on a BOM surface. 

I never said materials are the reason. :)

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20 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Isn't the reason why there's a seam between two pieces of mesh because their verts and/or vertex normals and/or UV don't line up? I mean sure, if one has materials and the other doesn't, there's going to be a noticeable seam under certain lighting, but that's not the main reason because you can still have materials on a BOM surface. 

Most of the modern body/head/skin makers have gotten really good about matching those verts. Unless a user configures their 'HUD' for the wrong neck size, these days you're only going to get seam issues when materials zap you under that lighting you're trying to use for that awesome screenshot that... just got ruined...

- The one thing body/head/skin makers do NOT seem to coordinate on well is the specular mask and the materials settings (most of their HUD don't let you enter numeric values, and almost nobody gives out a specular map made for the full body+head)... It's some kind of giant oversight in that whole community to have forgotten about this...

 

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On 1/3/2020 at 8:24 AM, Random Demina said:

A few skin creators? who are they, where are their stores?

LAQ, Glam Affair, YSYS, Izzie's, DeeTalesZ all have current BOM skins.

And may I also suggest the GORGEOUS Lelutka Evolution heads with BOM/HD makeups.  (these heads also come with 5 'face tattoo' layer BOM 'skins'

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I’m still confused, I know the purpose of bom is to get rid of much of the onion skinning for texture layers for the bodies, reducing geometry and multiple layers of many large textures but if normal and specular mapping is not used, then are we back to flat and matte textures without materials? In an advanced-lighting environment? Only texture-baked light effects and drawn-in highlights? I hope not, but I’m still not sure. What about all the options for makeup blending? How does that work with bom, or is it gone too?

Are there plans to add back materials as an option? I feel like that’s a step backwards if not, eliminating a very good feature. 

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9 hours ago, Fauve Aeon said:

I’m still confused, I know the purpose of bom is to get rid of much of the onion skinning for texture layers for the bodies, reducing geometry and multiple layers of many large textures but if normal and specular mapping is not used, then are we back to flat and matte textures without materials? In an advanced-lighting environment? Only texture-baked light effects and drawn-in highlights? I hope not, but I’m still not sure. What about all the options for makeup blending? How does that work with bom, or is it gone too?

Are there plans to add back materials as an option? I feel like that’s a step backwards if not, eliminating a very good feature. 

I described the baking and what it does and its benefits in this comment: 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Fauve Aeon said:

I’m still confused, I know the purpose of bom is to get rid of much of the onion skinning for texture layers for the bodies, reducing geometry and multiple layers of many large textures but if normal and specular mapping is not used, then are we back to flat and matte textures without materials? In an advanced-lighting environment? Only texture-baked light effects and drawn-in highlights? I hope not, but I’m still not sure. What about all the options for makeup blending? How does that work with bom, or is it gone too?

Are there plans to add back materials as an option? I feel like that’s a step backwards if not, eliminating a very good feature. 

Materials are handled by completely separate textures from the "diffuse" textures that give color information. BOM only works with diffuse textures, but there's nothing to stop the materials textures to be applied on top of a BOM diffuse texture exactly the way they are now with the diffuse texture in an applier.

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13 hours ago, Fauve Aeon said:

I’m still confused, I know the purpose of bom is to get rid of much of the onion skinning for texture layers for the bodies, reducing geometry and multiple layers of many large textures but if normal and specular mapping is not used, then are we back to flat and matte textures without materials? In an advanced-lighting environment? Only texture-baked light effects and drawn-in highlights? I hope not, but I’m still not sure. What about all the options for makeup blending? How does that work with bom, or is it gone too?

Are there plans to add back materials as an option? I feel like that’s a step backwards if not, eliminating a very good feature. 

You 👏 can 👏 apply 👏 normals 👏 and 👏 speculars 👏 onto 👏 BOM 👏 enabled 👏 mesh.

Don't let anybody tell you otherwise, many people seem to have this misconception.

Also, BOM works just fine with makeup. The SL body UV has a texture for the entire head and BOM can blend partially transparent textures, just like with tattoos.

20 hours ago, Alyona Su said:
20 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Isn't the reason why there's a seam between two pieces of mesh because their verts and/or vertex normals and/or UV don't line up? I mean sure, if one has materials and the other doesn't, there's going to be a noticeable seam under certain lighting, but that's not the main reason because you can still have materials on a BOM surface. 

I never said materials are the reason. :)

I didn't mean that either, I'm just bad with words. Mismatching materials are the last and least likely reason you're going to get a seam, because at that point there's a bunch of other problems that have to have been solved.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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Cool, Wulfie, thank you, I’ll go ahead and start experimenting in BOM then. The 👏 made me giggle. Theresa thank you, the specular was what I was most wanting to still be able to apply. Alyona your posts don’t address materials except for the comment regarding the neck seam, materials capabilities for BOM was my question but thank you just the same for your replies. I’m great with the diffuse texture baking and I think I understand well enough how baking combines the textures, now that the question of partially transparent textures has also been answered...but I was not so clear about what people were saying (happily by mistake) about using/losing materials. 

Edited by Fauve Aeon
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