How do you find out if a skin contains a system layer?

[Anna Nova]

Okay, I give in!  Short of buying a new skin, how do you know if the skin you like is going to contain a system layer in the tone you want?   And how do you know what it will look like on your BoM compatible (e.g. Lelutka) head?

I ain't buying anything until I know what it will look like.

P.S. I spent an unhappy hour zipping from store to store, and found no mention of Bakes on Mesh anywhere.  Ditto time searching on MP.

Edited October 7, 2019 by anna2358
Post Script.

[Blush Bravin]

The head applier skins I've noticed including system skins with the head appliers have been from Skinnery, Glam Affair, and 7 Deadly. I've not been in world or shopping much lately so there may be more but those are the ones I've actually seen myself.

[Anna Nova]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

The head applier skins I've noticed including system skins with the head appliers have been from Skinnery, Glam Affair, and 7 Deadly. I've not been in world or shopping much lately so there may be more but those are the ones I've actually seen myself.

And could you tell BEFORE you bought them that they had System Skins and were BoM ready?  That's my main point.  Lack of any info.  When we went to Mesh we had a logo on the ads - for this - Nada.

[Tarani Tempest]

Demo.  If what you are looking for is not there, don't buy it.

[Maitimo]

8 hours ago, anna2358 said:

Okay, I give in!  Short of buying a new skin, how do you know if the skin you like is going to contain a system layer in the tone you want?   And how do you know what it will look like on your BoM compatible (e.g. Lelutka) head?

I ain't buying anything until I know what it will look like.

P.S. I spent an unhappy hour zipping from store to store, and found no mention of Bakes on Mesh anywhere.  Ditto time searching on MP.

Get a demo. If the main pack includes a system skin, the demo pack will too. You can try the demo on your Bakes-on-Mesh head just by wearing the system demo skin.

[Stephanie Misfit]

I had an interesting experience demoing a "bakes on mesh" system skin today. It was part of a package that had appliers and I noticed that it said "Bakes on mesh - head only". I tried it on and it really was head only, the body skin was the standard LL skin texture from Ruth! You were expected to use appliers (sold separately) for the body. Well that's just great, I use a bakes on mesh body so if I buy the skin, I can have a pretty face and Ruth for the body, no other option since we can't wear 2 skins. I don't know what that creator was thinking but they definitely are not BoM ready. Creators really don't want to move away from that model of charging separately for head and body skins I guess. I'm aware of another designer who is selling BoM head and body skins separately by offering a body skin with a blank face, and the face as a tattoo layer. Give it up already, just sell us a whole skin.

Oh, and then there's the creators who say they offer a BoM version but don't include it in the demo so you have no idea what it is going to look like. Applier demos are no good to me if I am wearing a BoM head.

 

[Anna Nova]

In another thread a CSR for a skin supplier is bemoaning having the run around explaining BoM  to customers.  Well tough luck buddy, the whole thing is a marketing mess!

Rule 1:  No demo, no sale.

5 hours ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

I had an interesting experience demoing a "bakes on mesh" system skin today. It was part of a package that had appliers and I noticed that it said "Bakes on mesh - head only". I tried it on and it really was head only, the body skin was the standard LL skin texture from Ruth! You were expected to use appliers (sold separately) for the body. Well that's just great, I use a bakes on mesh body so if I buy the skin, I can have a pretty face and Ruth for the body, no other option since we can't wear 2 skins. I don't know what that creator was thinking but they definitely are not BoM ready. Creators really don't want to move away from that model of charging separately for head and body skins I guess. I'm aware of another designer who is selling BoM head and body skins separately by offering a body skin with a blank face, and the face as a tattoo layer. Give it up already, just sell us a whole skin.

Oh, and then there's the creators who say they offer a BoM version but don't include it in the demo so you have no idea what it is going to look like. Applier demos are no good to me if I am wearing a BoM head.

 

 

[Skell Dagger]

4 hours ago, anna2358 said:

In another thread a CSR for a skin supplier is bemoaning having the run around explaining BoM  to customers.  Well tough luck buddy, the whole thing is a marketing mess!

Rule 1:  No demo, no sale.

 

I am not a CSR for a "skin supplier". I'm a CSR for a mesh head creator. And - since BOM was released - I and my four fellow CSRs have spent *hours and hours* explaining *over and over* in our support group what BOM is, how it works, how to use it on their specific mesh body (remember: we're mesh head support, not mesh body), etc, ad nauseam. I have written a long beginners' guide tutorial post on my blog about using BOM (Firestorm linked to that post on their changelog page for the BOM viewer download), and I'm currently working on an even more simplified "Dummies Guide"- style post about it because so many people are failing to grasp even the absolute basics.

I was inworld for about three hours last night, and for almost the entirety of that time I and my fellow CSRs were answering only BOM questions. I got nothing else done that I'd intended to do.

So yeah, tough luck on me, and I guess I shouldn't express even the smallest amount of frustration about how much additional work this has caused me?

[Anna Nova]

3 hours ago, Skell Dagger said:

I am not a CSR for a "skin supplier". I'm a CSR for a mesh head creator. And - since BOM was released - I and my four fellow CSRs have spent *hours and hours* explaining *over and over* in our support group what BOM is, how it works, how to use it on their specific mesh body (remember: we're mesh head support, not mesh body), etc, ad nauseam. I have written a long beginners' guide tutorial post on my blog about using BOM (Firestorm linked to that post on their changelog page for the BOM viewer download), and I'm currently working on an even more simplified "Dummies Guide"- style post about it because so many people are failing to grasp even the absolute basics.

I was inworld for about three hours last night, and for almost the entirety of that time I and my fellow CSRs were answering only BOM questions. I got nothing else done that I'd intended to do.

So yeah, tough luck on me, and I guess I shouldn't express even the smallest amount of frustration about how much additional work this has caused me?

Sorry about that Skell, I was typing from memory.  My gripe isn't about understanding BoM, or how to apply it.  I read your guides, they are good.

I just can't find any skins that I can prove support it, and allow me to see the result, before buying.  There is just no 'clear nomenclature' for BoM-on-Head, BoM-on-Body-with-blank-head, BoM-on-Body, BoM-on-both.   Now we all know that a System Layer Skin applies to both body and head, so I want to know if the skin I am looking at will apply well to my Maitreya body-with-interim-BoM-Hud + Lelutka-BoM-enabled-head and Slink-Redux feet.   You see my difficulty?

[LucyHerne]

Another thing to watch for are stores that sell appliers for mesh heads but include a base skin which sounds like it should work with BOM. I tried one skin that said it had base system skin only to find that the system head texture was really basic and not worth keeping. Clearly you needed a mesh head that used appliers to see the full beauty of the skin on the head. As I've now gone totally BOM and never really got into appliers I had to trash it. So, beware of head appliers that say they include a "base" system skin. As said above - Rule 1:  No demo, no sale.

Edited October 9, 2019 by LucyHerne

[Stephanie Misfit]

Well I just got excited because one of my favourite skin stores updated to bakes on mesh. Went to the store thinking that "update" meant that you could get an update if you had purchased the applier version, but they are selling the bakes on mesh skin separately, so you basically need to buy the same skin again at a price of close to 1000L. So this is going to be a thing now, I guess. No thank you. 

[Anna Nova]

2 hours ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Well I just got excited because one of my favourite skin stores updated to bakes on mesh. Went to the store thinking that "update" meant that you could get an update if you had purchased the applier version, but they are selling the bakes on mesh skin separately, so you basically need to buy the same skin again at a price of close to 1000L. So this is going to be a thing now, I guess. No thank you. 

It would be good if the Thread detailing who has BoM ready stuff also had a 'rip-off' flag.  Caveat Emptor,  the US motto, as usual I guess.

[Tarani Tempest]

On 10/11/2019 at 10:55 PM, anna2358 said:

It would be good if the Thread detailing who has BoM ready stuff also had a 'rip-off' flag.  Caveat Emptor,  the US motto, as usual I guess.

A designer does have the right to charge for their work if they want to.  Not everyone is updating their stuff for free, nor do they have too.  It is still work.  I don't think it is fair to accuse them of "ripping" anyone off.   Is it nice and preferable to get free updates, of course it is.  But, I am also willing to pay for being able to use my fave skins as well.

[Anna Nova]

8 hours ago, Tarani Tempest said:

A designer does have the right to charge for their work if they want to.  Not everyone is updating their stuff for free, nor do they have too.  It is still work.  I don't think it is fair to accuse them of "ripping" anyone off.   Is it nice and preferable to get free updates, of course it is.  But, I am also willing to pay for being able to use my fave skins as well.

Edit.  Changed my mind.

I just went to a store in world, went to their Outlet, and got a System Skin for L$500.  I'm very happy with it, so will now shut up.

Edited October 14, 2019 by anna2358

[Erwin Solo]

On 10/9/2019 at 7:31 AM, Skell Dagger said:

I am not a CSR for a "skin supplier". I'm a CSR for a mesh head creator. And - since BOM was released - I and my four fellow CSRs have spent *hours and hours* explaining *over and over* in our support group what BOM is, how it works, how to use it on their specific mesh body (remember: we're mesh head support, not mesh body), etc, ad nauseam. I have written a long beginners' guide tutorial post on my blog about using BOM (Firestorm linked to that post on their changelog page for the BOM viewer download), and I'm currently working on an even more simplified "Dummies Guide"- style post about it because so many people are failing to grasp even the absolute basics.

I was inworld for about three hours last night, and for almost the entirety of that time I and my fellow CSRs were answering only BOM questions. I got nothing else done that I'd intended to do.

So yeah, tough luck on me, and I guess I shouldn't express even the smallest amount of frustration about how much additional work this has caused me?

Well, in my SL, I find that people absolutely refuse to read anything unless its personally typed into their IMs.  They won't read NCs or Web Pages, or watch videos.  

So, for me the ideal guide is a NC, because I can copy/paste from my NCs to IMs.  

Edited November 22, 2019 by Erwin Solo
Typo: replace "ready" with "read"

[Drayke Newall]

On 10/9/2019 at 10:01 PM, Skell Dagger said:

I am not a CSR for a "skin supplier". I'm a CSR for a mesh head creator. And - since BOM was released - I and my four fellow CSRs have spent *hours and hours* explaining *over and over* in our support group what BOM is, how it works, how to use it on their specific mesh body (remember: we're mesh head support, not mesh body), etc, ad nauseam. I have written a long beginners' guide tutorial post on my blog about using BOM (Firestorm linked to that post on their changelog page for the BOM viewer download), and I'm currently working on an even more simplified "Dummies Guide"- style post about it because so many people are failing to grasp even the absolute basics.

I was inworld for about three hours last night, and for almost the entirety of that time I and my fellow CSRs were answering only BOM questions. I got nothing else done that I'd intended to do.

So yeah, tough luck on me, and I guess I shouldn't express even the smallest amount of frustration about how much additional work this has caused me?

If only there was a way for someone to make a quick tutorial video, show it inworld on a prim looping all the time to which you can force the viewer to play that video on screen when someone comes to a store. Then all you would need to do is tell people to go to your store and watch the tutorial. Oh wait there is...

[Blaise Glendevon]

On 10/7/2019 at 10:35 AM, anna2358 said:

Okay, I give in!  Short of buying a new skin, how do you know if the skin you like is going to contain a system layer in the tone you want?   And how do you know what it will look like on your BoM compatible (e.g. Lelutka) head?

I ain't buying anything until I know what it will look like.

P.S. I spent an unhappy hour zipping from store to store, and found no mention of Bakes on Mesh anywhere.  Ditto time searching on MP.

Demo.

[Anna Nova]

16 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

Demo.

Back in the mists of the past, before the flood, when the Earth was new, I asked a question.  At the time there were no BoM flags on vendors, and demos all universally had just the appliers.  Yet the names of the creators appeared in lists, saying they had BoM-ready stuff.

That was the context of the question. Now is not then.

Digging up 2-month old questions and sending cryptic answers is daft.  But I enjoyed venting at ya!