Bought nothing on Marketplace - How can I resolve?

[Pussycat Catnap]

4 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

That's hearsay, Pussycat.  Nothing more. 

No it's not... Go sit in the Daz3d community over in Utah for the next 20 years and ask them.

But you're imagine sure is running wild with crazy back-engineered theories to justify theft...

Give me one piece of evidence to back up your claim that a major animation art business is selling porn on SL when it's sued everyone else who's tried to use it's stuff to do that... I mean... where are you getting this notion into your head from?

 

I'm sure all that Star Wars stuff we see in SL is also sold by Lucas himself, right?

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Pussycat Catnap

[FairreLilette]

22 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

No it's not... Go sit in the Daz3d community over in Utah for the next 20 years and ask them.

But you're imagine sure is running wild with crazy back-engineered theories to justify theft...

Give me one piece of evidence to back up your claim that a Mormon business is selling porn on SL when it's sued everyone else who's tried to use it's stuff to do that... I mean... where are you getting this notion into your head from?

 

Seriously, this is your proof about theft.

The judge may walk you to the door himself/herself.  

If you have proof, take it to LL.

Edited October 8, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Pussycat Catnap]

Just now, FairreLilette said:

Seriously, this is your proof about theft.

The judge may walk you to the door himself.

If you have proof, take it to LL.

You've gone beyond stupid trying to back up a wild theory that a major business sells it's extremely valuable core asset as cheap knockoff porn furniture in SL...

 

[FairreLilette]

10 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

You've gone beyond stupid trying to back up a wild theory that a major business sells it's extremely valuable core asset as cheap knockoff porn furniture in SL...

 

I do not think my premise is beyond stupid because there is no actual 3D world to render DAZ3d stuff in as far as my reading thus far today so why wouldn't the makers of the DAZ3d software want to make some items and see how they render in a 3D world.  They may have made a deal with LL and perhaps LL wants to see how they render as well.

[Silent Mistwalker]

11 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

If you have proof, take it to LL.

If the person is not the original creator of the content LL will do nothing. The only person that can file a DMCA takedown is the original creator.

https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/intellectual-property-infringement-notification-policy

[FairreLilette]

7 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

If the person is not the original creator of the content LL will do nothing. The only person that can file a DMCA takedown is the original creator.

https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/intellectual-property-infringement-notification-policy

Then go to whomever...the authorities or whatever because making wild accusations about some kind of generalized theft with no proof is inane.  

Edited October 8, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Silent Mistwalker]

15 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

roThen go to whomever...the authorities or whatever because making wild accusations about some kind of generalized theft with no proof is inane.  

If you had actually read Pussycat's posts you would have seen where she stated she did exactly that. I've done it as well in the past and will do it again if I see it. Starting with Maxis/EA's The Sims objects I have seen in SL. There. Now those people have been warned and have the chance to pull those things off MP and remove them form any inworld stores. That should make you happy.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Silent Mistwalker
typo

[FairreLilette]

9 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

If you had actually read Pussycat's posts you would have seen where she stated she did exactly that.

She said she found one person.  That is not proof for a generalized statement that high polygon Gacha items are theft.  Contacting one person.  K...I've had about enough for now going round n round.  

From Pussycat:

"I've personally notified one Renderosity artist who I knew had not authorized their stuff to be ripped..."

Edited October 8, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Silent Mistwalker]

5 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

She said she found one person.  That is not proof for a generalized statement that high polygon Gacha items are theft.  Contacting one person.  K...I've had about enough for now going round n round.  

From Pussycat:

"I've personally notified one Renderosity artist who I knew had not authorized their stuff to be ripped..."

English must not be your native language. Please quote where she said that is was ONLY high poly gotchas she was talking about. 

She gave you an example of an incident she personally reported to the original creator. She is not obligated to give you dozens of examples. 

Tell you what. Go buy something off Daz3d and then upload it SL and see how long it takes before a DMCA is filed on you.

[FairreLilette]

16 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

English must not be your native language. Please quote where she said that is was ONLY high poly gotchas she was talking about. 

She gave you an example of an incident she personally reported to the original creator. She is not obligated to give you dozens of examples. 

Tell you what. Go buy something off Daz3d and then upload it SL and see how long it takes before a DMCA is filed on you.

She never mentioned any other Gachas or your word "gotchas" that were not high polygon.  Plus, I think she can speak for herself and I think you are capable of reading this thread.  If you have bad eyesight...I cannot copy and paste stuff for you.  I have things to do.  Life goes on.  

Pussycat:

"- the problem with the Daz and Renderosity stuff goes beyond legal, and also into lag. Daz and Renderosity are models made for HD / 4K animation and art. Super high polygon and such... Ever land in a venue and notice your lag spikes like crazy even though very few people are there and it doesn't seem heavily scripted?"

p.s.  You can look up how to enlarge font so you can see easier.  But, please let her speak for herself.  Thank you.  

Edited October 8, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Silent Mistwalker]

4 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

She never mentioned any other Gachas or your word "gotchas" that were not high polygon.  Plus, I think she can speak for herself and I think you are capable of reading this thread.  If you have bad eyesight...I cannot copy and paste stuff for you.  I have things to do.  Life goes on.  

Pussycat:

"- the problem with the Daz and Renderosity stuff goes beyond legal, and also into lag. Daz and Renderosity are models made for HD / 4K animation and art. Super high polygon and such... Ever land in a venue and notice your lag spikes like crazy even though very few people are there and it doesn't seem heavily scripted?"

In other words, you know you are in the wrong and can't admit it. You refuse to look at the facts.

Gotcha is my term for gachas. 

Oh and btw, that is not a direct quote so I have no way of going back to the post and reading for myself IN CONTEXT what she said without having to re-read the whole thread to find it That is what the quote button is for and the multiquote button. The little plus sign right next to the quote button.

[Tari Landar]

6 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Second Life has a similiar policy from makers of full perm items and textures that when you buy a full perm item or texture it can only be used in SL. 

Second life does NOT have a policy for full perm creators, or even customers of full perm creators about anything of the sort.  Any end user policies that creators have for items they make (I am a creator, have been since 2008) are policies that individual creators have. LL and sl have no such policies of their own. In fact, the one policy that LL does have regarding creators, no matter who you are, no matter what you create, no matter what other policies or rules you have for customers surrounding your products is that ANYTHING you make in sl...is property of LL and thy can do with it as they wish. That doesn't mean they WILL, just means they can (and if you didn't know that, you didn't read the TOS very well, it was a pretty big ordeal when they added that bit in). I'll get into this again in a minute but you really, really, really need to read the old threads about this topic and WHY those sites(the OWNERS of those sites) have policies about not letting ANYTHING bought from those sites come to places like Sl. Those assets, those meshes, they come in a multitide of forms (aka, types, styles, whatever you want to call them) they can be used in all kinds of ways NOT just in virtual worlds like SL. They can be used for all sorts of things, far, far more than just for sl (a lot are used for games, to teach others how to model and create items, etc..) which is precisely why the OWNERS of those sites have policies against using those items in sl, or buying them and then using them in sl(BOTH, not just users, also creators have rules). 

You're getting a bit bent out of shape over things that probably don;t apply to you, and it might be that you simply haven't been  a creator in sl very long, so you're not aware of some of the problems. Or maybe you have been, but you're just not aware, that's ok too. As someone who also makes very good use of others' full perm creations, I can understand where you might that kind of confusion might be causing a bit of animosity to creep in, but, really, it may be quite misplaced in this case. Nothing Pussycat has said is wrong, she's pretty spot on, and it's not speculation. It is a pretty in-depth topic but also one that has been covered ad nauseum both here on these forums and...other (lol),places, over the years. It became an even hotter topic when the OWNERS of these asset sites made sure to put these topics at the forefront, and then when LL changed gears on our TOS (the bit about them essentially owning your stuff) these owners came forth yet again to make their own policies absolutely CLEAR, BOLD and NOT TO BE FORGOTTEN. Many of us have seen what happens when that ban hammer comes down, both in sl, and on those other sites.

(That's why when I do work with mesh, I buy form creators in sl, but FIRST, I check those sites, because a lot of full perm stuff..my favorite stuff, comes from them, so I have to do my own homework, and it's also why I am hesitant to buy more full perm mesh stuff, because, again, I have to be careful so I myself don't break TOS of any sites, even by proxy)

Don't be angry about it, it is what it is, and has been this for years. Mesh did introduce many wonderful amazing things to our grid, but it also introduced a few more ways for folks with not so kind intent to  do some not so kind things. If you're not one of those folks, if you're not one of the gacha resellers that is scamming people, or trying to use gimmicks to get people to spend even more money, or suggesting that those who don't SHOULD just because.....then nothing that has bee said is a slight against you. It's a bit unfair to be angry FOR the folks to whom those comments are actually directed. Most of them don't care that we don't like their practices, lol, you seem like you care a little too much about their feelings in these matters. I suspect that's simply because you're a nice person, but it does put you in a bit of an odd place in this discussions.  If you're a good seller/creator/merchant...then you're good and that's all there is to it. Others aren't such good folks-and there's far more to that than even I can get into in one post, lol.

I think that's my long winded way os saying please don't take offense at things not intended for you to take offense at, because it sounds a lot like some of your posts are headed that direction-and I don't know why (it could be my poor interpretation, or not, who knows).  

Edited October 8, 2019 by Tari Landar

[FairreLilette]

8 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

Second life does NOT have a policy for full perm creators, or even customers of full perm creators about anything of the sort.  Any end user policies that creators have for items they make (I am a creator, have been since 2008) are policies that individual creators have. LL and sl have no such policies of their own. In fact, the one policy that LL does have regarding creators, no matter who you are, no matter what you create, no matter what other policies or rules you have for customers surrounding your products is that ANYTHING you make in sl...is property of LL and thy can do with it as they wish. That doesn't mean they WILL, just means they can (and if you didn't know that, you didn't read the TOS very well, it was a pretty big ordeal when they added that bit in).

You're getting a bit bent out of shape over things that probably don;t apply to you, and it might be that you simply haven't been  a creator in sl very long, so you're not aware of some of the problems. Or maybe you have been, but you're just not aware, that's ok too. As someone who also makes very good use of others' full perm creations, I can understand where you might that kind of confusion might be causing a bit of animosity to creep in, but, really, it may be quite misplaced in this case. Nothing Pussycat has said is wrong, she's pretty spot on, and it's not speculation. It is a pretty in-depth topic but also one that has been covered ad nauseum both here on these forums and...other (lol),places, over the years. It became an even hotter topic when the OWNERS of these asset sites made sure to put these topics at the forefront, and then when LL changed gears on our TOS (the bit about them essentially owning your stuff) these owners came forth yet again to make their own policies absolutely CLEAR, BOLD and NOT TO BE FORGOTTEN. Many of us have seen what happens when that ban hammer comes down, both in sl, and on those other sites.

(That's why when I do work with mesh, I buy form creators in sl, but FIRST, I check those sites, because a lot of full perm stuff..my favorite stuff, comes from them, so I have to do my own homework, and it's also why I am hesitant to buy more full perm mesh stuff, because, again, I have to be careful so I myself don't break TOS of any sites, even by proxy)

Don't be angry about it, it is what it is, and has been this for years. Mesh did introduce many wonderful amazing things to our grid, but it also introduced a few more ways for folks with not so kind intent to  do some not so kind things. If you're not one of those folks, if you're not one of the gacha resellers that is scamming people, or trying to use gimmicks to get people to spend even more money, or suggesting that those who don't SHOULD just because.....then nothing that has bee said is a slight against you. It's a bit unfair to be angry FOR the folks to whom those comments are actually directed. Most of them don't care that we don't like their practices, lol, you seem like you care a little too much about their feelings in these matters. I suspect that's simply because you're a nice person, but it does put you in a bit of an odd place in this discussions.  If you're a good seller/creator/merchant...then you're good and that's all there is to it. Others aren't such good folks-and there's far more to that than even I can get into in one post, lol.

I think that's my long winded way os saying please don't take offense at things not intended for you to take offense at, because it sounds a lot like some of your posts are headed that direction-and I don't know why (it could be my poor interpretation, or not, who knows).  

Yes, I later corrected myself that it is creator's who make their own user license.  What I meant to say was the check box for user licensed is provided by LL on Marketplace.  However, each creator can make still write out their particular user license under details because it can vary.  I have seen full perm creator's say the full perm item can be used in other world's but you need to talk to them first.  

However, I don't know what goes on behind the scenes and you cannot deny there could be "ghost" creators.  Read my posts above before commenting on "ghost" creators.  It's creator's who are splitting the profit but their name is not fore-right as on MP it only allows for one name to be seen but there is a place to allocate money to another person in your own listing.  There could be teams of creators working one business in SL also just like in RL but you only see one name as creator.  It's just the way LL has their system set up.  

I think it would be a fantastic idea for LL and DAZ3d to merge.  Those are incredible tools going to waste on DAZ3d because DAZ3d has no virtual world to rez anything in.

 But, no Tari, I still do not see high polygon items suspect to be stolen.  If I were LL, I'd ask to try out DAZ3d's items to see how they rez here.  Also, why should DAZ3d WANT to go to all the expense of building a virtual world when they can try out their items in virtual worlds already built and see how they work.  I just did not see that as a reason to cry a generalized "thief".  

But, I am over and out on the this topic.  Nothing more to say.  I have a life to lead, too.  And, I cannot change anything regarding stuff that may or may not be between parties who are not me.  

 

[Tari Landar]

1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

Yes, I later corrected myself that it is creator's who make their own user license.  What I meant to say was the check box for user licensed is provided by LL on Marketplace.  However, each creator can make still write out their particular user license under details because it can vary.  I have seen full perm creator's say the full perm item can be used in other world's but you need to talk to them first.  

However, I don't know what goes on behind the scenes and you cannot deny there could be "ghost" creators.  Read my posts above before commenting on "ghost" creators.  It's creator's who are splitting the profit but their name is not fore-right as on MP it only allows for one name to be seen but there is a place to allocate money to another person in your own listing.  There could be teams of creators working one business in SL also just like in RL but you only see one name as creator.  It's just the way LL has their system set up.  

I think it would be a fantastic idea for LL and DAZ3d to merge.  Those are incredible tools going to waste on DAZ3d because DAZ3d has no virtual world to rez anything in.

 But, no Tari, I still do not see high polygon items suspect to be stolen.  If I were LL, I'd ask to try out DAZ3d's items to see how they rez here.  Also, why should DAZ3d WANT to go to all the expense of building a virtual world when they can try out their items in virtual worlds already built and see how they work.  I just did not see that as a reason to cry a generalized "thief".  

But, I am over and out on the this topic.  Nothing more to say.  I have a life to lead, too.  And, I cannot change anything regarding stuff that may or may not be between parties who are not me.  

 

The companies will never merge, and those owners of the sites will NEVER rez their own items here, or "try them out", because of the TOS part I mentioned in my other post. That's the super important part that's getting left out of the conversation-the most important part. IF the owners of those sites ever rezzed even a singular item here, because of the way LL's TOS is worded, LL would then own that asset as they do ALL of our stuff and can do with it what they wish (again, not hat they will, but they CAN, read the TOS, it's pretty clear). None of those site owners support that kind of TOS and have made it a very well known FACT, not hearsay, in fact some of them didn't even have "no items on sl" policies until LL changed out TOS to contain that "we own your stuff" verbiage. 

I can deny there are ghost creators (in the context you're using), because we know the rules they have. I have a feeling you've been duped (whether you realized they were duping you or not) in the past by someone who is using that theory as a reason for why they can sell something in sl that they're not supposed to be selling..i Whether intentionally duped or not, you seem convinced these folks exist, and they don't, again, because of very specific rules they have.  People that work together in tandem to create things don't tend to hide in the shadows, they tend to make it known who does what. Even in the cases where people work together, collaborate on creation, there are still rules both in sl and on these sites that they have to follow-regardless of profit sharing(profit sharing has no place in a discussion about potentially stolen goods, but, I added it in since you did)

Yes, "illegal" items are indeed a HUGE issue in sl, and one that plagues high poly products quite a lot (because they are super easy to buy on those sites and then upload into sl, with little to no changes made..voila..new product), one you, clearly, have not run into, so it might seem more like someone crying wolf to you. But, I really do think you need to read the other threads and posts about this, to get more of the picture. People do report things though, as they see them. I have reported things to people that sell their wares on 3d type sites many, many times. If those folks then want to come and file DMCAs, they can, and many have. That doesn't change the base rules those 3d sites have(the no bringing things to sl rules) though.

Again, though I was just trying to understand your position and why you care so much about people being angry at others who are, clearly, breaking the TOS both in sl and on those sites. I guess if it makes you feel good to care more about it, then have at it, I just don't understand that position or why you're defending it to vehemently. You're acting like you were attacked and it doesn't make a lick of sense-which tells me you haven't read any of the myriad of posts, threads, and discussions this topic, here on these forums(and their prior incarnations) or anywhere else,  prior to now.

I'm glad you have a life to lead....I do too, little digs are totally unnecessary though, and rather rude. Have a great day. 

 

 

[FairreLilette]

29 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

The companies will never merge, and those owners of the sites will NEVER rez their own items here, or "try them out", because of the TOS part I mentioned in my other post. That's the super important part that's getting left out of the conversation-the most important part. IF the owners of those sites ever rezzed even a singular item here, because of the way LL's TOS is worded, LL would then own that asset as they do ALL of our stuff and can do with it what they wish (again, not hat they will, but they CAN, read the TOS, it's pretty clear). None of those site owners support that kind of TOS and have made it a very well known FACT, not hearsay, in fact some of them didn't even have "no items on sl" policies until LL changed out TOS to contain that "we own your stuff" verbiage. 

I can deny there are ghost creators (in the context you're using), because we know the rules they have. I have a feeling you've been duped (whether you realized they were duping you or not) in the past by someone who is using that theory as a reason for why they can sell something in sl that they're not supposed to be selling..i Whether intentionally duped or not, you seem convinced these folks exist, and they don't, again, because of very specific rules they have.  People that work together in tandem to create things don't tend to hide in the shadows, they tend to make it known who does what. Even in the cases where people work together, collaborate on creation, there are still rules both in sl and on these sites that they have to follow-regardless of profit sharing(profit sharing has no place in a discussion about potentially stolen goods, but, I added it in since you did)

Yes, "illegal" items are indeed a HUGE issue in sl, and one that plagues high poly products quite a lot (because they are super easy to buy on those sites and then upload into sl, with little to no changes made..voila..new product), one you, clearly, have not run into, so it might seem more like someone crying wolf to you. But, I really do think you need to read the other threads and posts about this, to get more of the picture. People do report things though, as they see them. I have reported things to people that sell their wares on 3d type sites many, many times. If those folks then want to come and file DMCAs, they can, and many have. That doesn't change the base rules those 3d sites have(the no bringing things to sl rules) though.

Again, though I was just trying to understand your position and why you care so much about people being angry at others who are, clearly, breaking the TOS both in sl and on those sites. I guess if it makes you feel good to care more about it, then have at it, I just don't understand that position or why you're defending it to vehemently. You're acting like you were attacked and it doesn't make a lick of sense-which tells me you haven't read any of the myriad of posts, threads, and discussions this topic, here on these forums(and their prior incarnations) or anywhere else,  prior to now.

I'm glad you have a life to lead....I do too, little digs are totally unnecessary though, and rather rude. Have a great day. 

 

 

There is a lot said here and I am not completely doubting you've done your research but I still do not know your standing to speak for other companies.

TOS is a lot of legal-ese and I thought I read something in the DAZ3d TOS that you can modify the object for your own use if it doesn't break any law.  Perhaps that's the fair use law?   I need a chance to read it more.  

Alyona claims to understand EULA greatly.  Why should I doubt her and believe you over her?  Both of you, to me, are just giving your opinion on this unless you do indeed know stuff about DAZ3d the average person does not know.  But, you have to understand, Tari, it's all hearsay to me because I do not know who you are or on what behalf you speak for other companies.   

And, if DAZ3d made some items for SL and sold them as Gachas, they make money, LL makes money...what are they losing exactly?  The way the item was built?  I am sure LL could figure that out if they wanted too and download the software for free.  So, what would DAZ3d be losing if they made some items themselves and gave them to LL to split the profits?  A few decor items out of endless infinity items that could be made for virtual worlds?   

And, I am not the one who has been making little digs in this thread.  It is someone else and I have reported them for flaming because it was rude and against the TOS of SL for flaming and defaming and other things period.  

*shakes her head and walks away* regarding that last statement, Tari.  Simply uncalled for when their is obvious flaming towards me in this thread as well as far too many repeated posts directed to me that I had to say I have a life to lead.  Many of these statements in this thread about thievery are completely inane if not slander.  

And, if you have a life to lead as well..the block features works both ways. 

And, I'm defending it because it's inane to say such as thing as well as I know for a fact their are "ghost" creators in all businesses AND in SL.   

Edited October 8, 2019 by FairreLilette

[JanuarySwan]

I agree with FairreLilette. 

High polygons is not proof a Gacha item nor any other item was stolen.  The judge does not want to hear hearsay from 20 years of any user base nor about high polygons.  

The judge wants proof.  High polygons is not proof in the fair use world that exists today.

I think some of you are over-reacting regarding high polygons as proof which would take up a lot of judge's time needlessly as well as rattle the nerves of many users here in SL un-necessarily who would fear their objects could be taken away from them.  

And, I think that is not right to do that.

Love,

Jan

 

[Tari Landar]

No one said high polys is proof, we said that high poly products are rife with problems in sl (and they are-even from a technical/functional standpoint), and one of them is that they are more/most frequently items that should not be in SL because of the TOS, EULA, etc... that the sites they come from have which forbid that very thing(use in sl). That doesn't mean they are all stolen, all are bad, or anything else like that, nor has anyone suggested they are.

Hell some, ok MOST, of my own meshes are really high poly when I make them, because I'm not very good at making them (it's also why they'll never see the light of day in sl, lol). I'm not offended when people say high poly items are more likely to be items that have been bought or ripped from other sites/other creators, it's just true, more likely doesn't mean all are. A lot of people buy things on 3d sites to create in sl, either as individual items or in their creations, some sites forbid that, some sites do not. The ones mentioned here, do absolutely forbid it, though. 

I think, perhaps, some topics are getting confused/meshed together here, where they need not be, as they're separate things. 

 

[JanuarySwan]

I read it as mostly  high polygon items are suspect to be stolen from Renderosity or DAZ3d.

But, DAZ3d making their items unusable in virtual worlds is about as dumb as Photoshop saying you cannot sell any of the work you do on Photoshop.

Also, reading EULA on the wiki is a bunch of stuff I do not understand and it seems even the courts cannot agree on what it is copyright-able and what isn't.  However, it is too much legal jargon for me to understand.  I know the basics, but this stuff is very involved.  

The enforceability of an EULA depends on several factors, one of them being the court in which the case is heard. Some courts that have addressed the validity of the shrinkwrap license agreements have found some EULAs to be invalid, characterizing them as contracts of adhesion, unconscionable, and/or unacceptable pursuant to the U.C.C.—see, for instance, Step-Saver Data Systems, Inc. v. Wyse Technology,^[6] Vault Corp. v. Quaid Software Ltd..^[7] Other courts have determined that the shrinkwrap license agreement is valid and enforceable: see ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg,^[8] Microsoft v. Harmony Computers,^[9] Novell v. Network Trade Center,^[10] and Ariz. Cartridge Remanufacturers Ass'n v. Lexmark Int'l, Inc.^[11] may have some bearing as well. No court has ruled on the validity of EULAs generally; decisions are limited to particular provisions and terms.

Also, this is making me loose my desire to make purchases in SL now.  

 

[JanuarySwan]

Yes, this is complicated to understand.  Just look at all those sub-links in my post above.  Who has time to read all that?

FROM WHAT I AM READING FROM THE EULA for DAZ3d is there are different kinds of "content"  Content refers to that which DAZ3d creates.  However,  PA refers to items created by third-party published artists or libraries.

From what I read of DAZ3d's EULA, the content cannot be used but with other's (I gather it's the third-party PA's) there are exceptions if you receive permission to use them.  But, again, when reading below 'content' is one thing, PA is another thing.  And, this is very confusing and really something that should be talked about in secret and not brought to the forum because it is a private matter between one DMCA holder and another, and I don't think SL users should make sweeping accusations such as those brought up in this thread.  It is very disruptive to the community who can do nothing about someone who has a DMCA claim.  That needs to go to court from my understanding.  Because I really do not want someone saying to me "have fun" and then pulling the rug out from under me and taking my items I purchased.  

• laws and treaties. DAZ and its library licensors retain all rights in, title to, and ownership of the DAZ Content. The applicable third-party published artists and their library licensors retain all rights in, title to, and ownership of the PA Content. DAZ gives no rights or warranties with regard to the use of any objects, names, trademarks, service marks, or works of authorship depicted in any Content and User is solely responsible for separately obtaining all such necessary rights or consents that may be required for any particular use of objects, names, trademarks, service marks or works of authorship.
•  
   

Edited October 9, 2019 by JanuarySwan

[Tari Landar]

It is and can be very complicated, on that much we very much do agree, lol. For a lot of it, if not most of it, the general public really doesn't need to understand it as much-which is why debating it can be tricky, because not everyone understands all of the issues surrounding it. Sometimes people think they're right and they might even be right in theory, but in practice, it's something else entirely when you take everything into account, make sense?. If you're a creator, however, you do have to understand most if not all of it, or if you pay attention to things posted/shared on these 3D asset sites (like DAZ, for instance), because even though they are complicated in so many ways, there are some ways in which they're not. One of the ways in which they are not complicated, is that they forbid the use of assets from them, specifically, in sl (the site actually names SL for lots of reasons, one of which is, well, theft or at least some creators claiming ownership over something they can't actually own outright but only have use of-I can explain that part if that too is a bit convoluted, I'm not sure if it is, bit hard for me to put into words maybe).

A huge part of that complicated nature can be directly linked to the TOS LL gave/gives us, or rather, the point in time when LL decided to add the bit about them owning all our stuff into our existing TOS. It threw a wrench in a lot of things, for a lot of creators, a lot of buyers and just generally lead to more problems than it should have. LL saying "no matter what you upload to sl, it is ours, we own it, we can do what we want with it" with that TOS addition, made some of the existing rules on those sites unable to be fulfilled, followed, etc.. Those sites say that the folks who upload assets to them, the folks who sell or even give away things they have made on them OWN those products, the sites make no claim of ownership (because they don't, of course). But the TOS we have in sl, says something different, and removes that ownership-which can be problematic. So the sites decided that rather than try and sort it all out, they would have a rule in place that simply disallows taking assets from the site(purchased or not) and bringing them into sl. It covers the property rights of creators.

There are sites where you can buy, or get, assets and use them in sl without any problem at all. But there are some where you can't, those places are very specific about it and it's because of the TOS we have in sl that they feel they need those rules. LL made that bed for us, though. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Tari Landar

[JanuarySwan]

32 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

It is and can be very complicated, on that much we very much do agree, lol. For a lot of it, if not most of it, the general public really doesn't need to understand it as much-which is why debating it can be tricky, because not everyone understands all of the issues surrounding it. Sometimes people think they're right and they might even be right in theory, but in practice, it's something else entirely when you take everything into account, make sense?. If you're a creator, however, you do have to understand most if not all of it, or if you pay attention to things posted/shared on these 3D asset sites (like DAZ, for instance), because even though they are complicated in so many ways, there are some ways in which they're not. One of the ways in which they are not complicated, is that they forbid the use of assets from them, specifically, in sl (the site actually names SL for lots of reasons, one of which is, well, theft or at least some creators claiming ownership over something they can't actually own outright but only have use of-I can explain that part if that too is a bit convoluted, I'm not sure if it is, bit hard for me to put into words maybe).

A huge part of that complicated nature can be directly linked to the TOS LL gave/gives us, or rather, the point in time when LL decided to add the bit about them owning all our stuff into our existing TOS. It threw a wrench in a lot of things, for a lot of creators, a lot of buyers and just generally lead to more problems than it should have. LL saying "no matter what you upload to sl, it is ours, we own it, we can do what we want with it" with that TOS addition, made some of the existing rules on those sites unable to be fulfilled, followed, etc.. Those sites say that the folks who upload assets to them, the folks who sell or even give away things they have made on them OWN those products, the sites make no claim of ownership (because they don't, of course). But the TOS we have in sl, says something different, and removes that ownership-which can be problematic. So the sites decided that rather than try and sort it all out, they would have a rule in place that simply disallows taking assets from the site(purchased or not) and bringing them into sl. It covers the property rights of creators.

There are sites where you can buy, or get, assets and use them in sl without any problem at all. But there are some where you can't, those places are very specific about it and it's because of the TOS we have in sl that they feel they need those rules. LL made that bed for us, though. 

Okay...I'm reading and listening, but our items can be pulled if it's stolen goods...so it's a mess and I need to sleep on it and read some more tomorrow.  It is making a little leary of making purchases right now until I have further information. 

Disclosure:  I resell Gacha once in a great while.  I am not currently selling any now and am nearly cleaned out from my last sales but I still have items I'd like to keep and those are my Gacha items and not for re-sale.  

 

[Lindal Kidd]

I've been following this thread for a while, and I happened to re-read the title just now: "Bought Nothing on the Marketplace - How to Resolve"?

I have a literal answer:  Buy something!

...runs off, giggling.

[Tari Landar]

I just thought of the most perfect product to create

Oh, this will be fun

[Lindal Kidd]

You're going to make Nothing!?

[Tari Landar]

52 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

You're going to make Nothing!?

No, something

I couldn't possibly match Michael Ende in nothing creation