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Bought nothing on Marketplace - How can I resolve?

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Almost always gacha items are no-copy so you can not open the boxes with the ways we are use to these days. You must rez the box out on the ground and right click on it and choose open. Make sure the content tab loads. It's a possibility this is your issue.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Mercedes Avon said:

Almost always gacha items are no-copy so you can not open the boxes with the ways we are use to these days. You must rez the box out on the ground and right click on it and choose open. Make sure the content tab loads. It's a possibility this is your issue.

Yeah, after reading the OP again, I think you are right.

__________________

Regarding other comments in this thread:

And, to those saying Gacha is a scam, et al.  

That is not true.  

I have a Gacha game.  There are no stolen goods in there nor is it a scam.

I have a low price because to me the items are copy and mine is a limited edition which may give my players a chance to re-sell the items at a higher price.  And, the retirement date will be put in my profile. 

I looked at it this way:  I make money, you make money.  There are people who want to make money in SL because they do not build.  And, that is what I want to give my customers.  But, with other Gachas never retiring, the collectibility factor is eliminated imo.  Something I have discussed before and do not wish to discuss again as to me if you do not retire your Gachas, there is no incentive for me to buy.   

Why is selling a limited edition a scam?  It's done all the time in the real world and it is fun to collect.  Collecting is the number one hobby of the world.

Plus, all items in my first Gacha game can be exchanged for a copy/mod version except one item can be exchanged for a copy only item.  

And, as far as others have stolen goods, this is the first I've heard about it.  And, if there are, there is nothing I can do about it.  Nor do I know which ones may be that others are selling.

Plus, I rarely look at Gacha as though I have to have the whole set.  I buy what I like.  Rares in the Gacha games with the way they are now have flooded the market that you cannot hardly give them away.  There are 20 pages of one rare; doesn't sound nor look rare to me.  

And, furthermore, judging by the caliber of some Gacha sellers whom I do like their items; their everyday items are such exquisite quality, I do not believe these are stolen goods.  Some creators in SL are just amazing!  There everyday items just as amazing as their Gacha items.    They look made by the same person to me.  Nomad, DRD, Dust Bunny, Hive, Apple Fall to name a very few who have tremendous talent in both their everyday items and in their Gacha items.  These are NOT stolen goods.   

Edited by FairreLilette
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On 10/6/2019 at 2:44 PM, Pussycat Catnap said:

I do wish the fad would die off...

It's too good of a money churn for a lot of people though.

That said... I have noticed an amazing amount of 'stolen goods' sold as gatcha items. And by stolen I mean things ripped from Daz3D, Renderosity, and video games. These things also exist on Marketplace in more general categories (and at least one major mesh body brand appears in wireframe to be actually partly built from a stolen copy of a version of Daz's Victoria but I won't name them here - it is NOT a brand I tend to talk about often).

- the problem with the Daz and Renderosity stuff goes beyond legal, and also into lag. Daz and Renderosity are models made for HD / 4K animation and art. Super high polygon and such... Ever land in a venue and notice your lag spikes like crazy even though very few people are there and it doesn't seem heavily scripted?

Look around at what they have rezzed... notice a lot of gatchas or high detail models... inspect them and you might find some of that stuff was ripped and sold in SL. The venue owner doesn't know - they just went shopping for nice looking goods... but the seller was a thief.

(Lower end machines are the best way to test this - those high end graphics will just crash them whereas on a new PC running an RTX card, your fans spin up but have super good noise reduction so even as your tax your system to the limits, unless you're running something like MSI Afterburner; you don't notice until some time later on a side monitor and then blame it on other avatars...)

But, to direct what I have to say about "stolen goods" directly at you, Pussycat...the most likely scenario is that these items IF they did indeed come from another game, were sub-contracted out because in the Gacha script you can allot a portion of the monies to go to another creator.  How do you know that a person making items in another game does not want to sell their items here on Second Life as well?  

It's their items...they made them...they can sell them in any game they want to.

Perhaps LL wanted to sub-contract some work out with higher polygons to see how it would work in SL.  That in no way means the items were stolen nor is it proof they were stolen because they have higher polygons.

There is work in SL that is of a higher caliber...I will grant you that...but sub-contracting work from other games whilst the creator still receives a portion of monies (divided by a script) is not forbidden.   A seller on Marketplace can also allot a portion of their sales to go to another person....just saying for instance, there are two creators but only one you see listed on Marketplace.  The allotted portion of money to another person is only known by the person placing the listing on Marketplace.  

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I'm still not going to jump though hoops for no copy items even if they can be traded in for different perms. That's more work on my end that I should not have to do.

I played a gacha machine once not too long after they got started on the grid. NEVER AGAIN! I can't afford to throw money away. I don't have the income most SL residents do. Of course, I'm only one person and the creators and sellers don't care since there are plenty of people who have money to spare. People like me can just do without any of life small pleasures simply because we live on fixed or low incomes through no fault of our own. Some day the shoe will be on the other foot.

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10 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

But, to direct what I have to say about "stolen goods" directly at you, Pussycat...the most likely scenario is that these items IF they did indeed come from another game, were sub-contracted out because in the Gacha script you can allot a portion of the monies to go to another creator.  How do you know that a person making items in another game does not want to sell their items here on Second Life as well?  

Maxis/EA Games does not license any of their models for the Sims games for use in other games and I have personally seen items I know for a fact are in the Sims games (I own all 4 iterations) that are also in SL. I'm not talking about the objects individuals make and then post on Sims Resource, Mod the Sims, etc. I am talking about objects that are in the games and created by Maxis/EA employees specifically for the Sims 2, 3 and 4.

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

But, to direct what I have to say about "stolen goods" directly at you, Pussycat...the most likely scenario is that these items IF they did indeed come from another game, were sub-contracted out because in the Gacha script you can allot a portion of the monies to go to another creator.  How do you know that a person making items in another game does not want to sell their items here on Second Life as well? 

Well for starters, DAZ3d and Renderosity BOTH have announced policies that their stuff CANNOT be used in Second Life, on pain of litigation. Been that way for somewhere between 5-10 years now.
- Some items from Renderosity COULD get in here IF the maker here was owner of the item from Renderosity. But NOTHING from Daz3d is legal here. And that's basically any of the mesh bodies from Daz - which you can frequently see here in high polygon 'statues'...

I've personally notified one Renderosity artist who I knew had not authorized their stuff to be ripped...

Other high polygon items have also made their way in. A few 'full perm fit mesh' clothing items originated on Daz... from makers of full perm goods that haven't put anything new up in years, which suggests they got caught...

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Well for starters, DAZ3d and Renderosity BOTH have announced policies that their stuff CANNOT be used in Second Life, on pain of litigation. Been that way for somewhere between 5-10 years now.
- Some items from Renderosity COULD get in here IF the maker here was owner of the item from Renderosity. But NOTHING from Daz3d is legal here. And that's basically any of the mesh bodies from Daz - which you can frequently see here in high polygon 'statues'...

I've personally notified one Renderosity artist who I knew had not authorized their stuff to be ripped...

Other high polygon items have also made their way in. A few 'full perm fit mesh' clothing items originated on Daz... from makers of full perm goods that haven't put anything new up in years, which suggests they got caught...

Second Life has a similiar policy from makers of full perm items and textures that when you buy a full perm item or texture it can only be used in SL.  However, that does not mean the creator themselves could not take them to other worlds.  They created it; a creator could take it to any world.  It's simply the buyer of each item here in SL agrees to the "user license" which means the items the buyer creates with a full perm item or texture have to stay in SL.  

How do you know nothing is legal here from this Daz3d?  Is that in the TOS?  Do you know that 100% for sure?   Because otherwise, this is not cool to be saying these kinds of things.  If you know something, you should let LL know and let them work it out.    

But, there are exceptions to SL's user license as a user license is written by each creator of full perm items.  There are some full perm sellers here on SL that say IF you want to take my items to other worlds, talk to me first.  As far as my full perm textures (I only have one right now) my user license is only to not resell them as a texture.  I do not care what world you take them too as long as you put them on something, make something with them rather than just selling them as a texture.  My free full perm texture I state I do not care where you use the free texture..you can even use it in real life to make items.  Each user license is written by each creator and could vary.  There is no standard user license in SL.

 

Edited by FairreLilette

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21 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Jut because it has been done before does not make it right or even legal.

And where did I say that it is right or legal? Answer: I didn't.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Well for starters, DAZ3d and Renderosity BOTH have announced policies that their stuff CANNOT be used in Second Life, on pain of litigation. Been that way for somewhere between 5-10 years now.
- Some items from Renderosity COULD get in here IF the maker here was owner of the item from Renderosity. But NOTHING from Daz3d is legal here. 

Renderosity has no such policy in their TOS:

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/wiki/?policies&terms

nor do I see it in DAZ3d's TOS either:

https://www.daz3d.com/terms-of-service

What you are talking about is a user license.  Creator's create their own user license and MOST say only allowed in whatever particular world it may be.  However, there are exceptions as even some full perm creators in SL say IF you want to take to another world, talk to me first.  

Edited by FairreLilette

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17 hours ago, Mercedes Avon said:

Almost always gacha items are no-copy so you can not open the boxes with the ways we are use to these days. You must rez the box out on the ground and right click on it and choose open. Make sure the content tab loads. It's a possibility this is your issue.

There is another way. Add it like you would any attachment (it will attach to your right hand), right click it, edit, contents tab and then drag everything from the tab to a folder in your inventory. No need to rez no copy boxes.

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2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

How do you know nothing is legal here from this Daz3d?  Is that in the TOS?  Do you know that 100% for sure?   Because otherwise, this is not cool to be saying these kinds of things.  If you know something, you should let LL know and let them work it out.    

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/53893/how-can-i-export-a-mesh-from-daz-studio-for-second-life

Quote

you are not permitted to IMPORT any DAZ Store products exported from DAZ Studio into Second Life specifically because it violates specific clauses within the product EULA. Furthermore Second Life is very unusual in that the TOS actually requires users to grant unlimited use of any uploaded object. That granting of rights is HIGHLY IN-CONGRUENT with the spirit and in clear VIOLATION of license granted to purchasers of DAZ Store content and that of most of its competitors including Renderosity, Content Paradise and others. Infact the Linden Labs TOS is so convoluted that even a Game License upgrade to your content will not provide the ability to use it legally in Second Life because YOU must be the OWNER have the ability to transfer grants to RESELL the product. No standard content license short of a brokering agreement I am aware of, will permit that.

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

However, if you run it through your preferred non-DAZ-produced 3D modeling app and change it enough to create a derivative and it becomes fair use, then there you go. Based on DAZ EULA it also specifically states "Exported from DAZ and imported into [SL]..." - but if you pass it through Blender it can become a derivative where their license no longer applies. If you bring it through your own 3D modeling app then export it from there it is no longer a DAZ creation; it is your creation and DAZ EULA no longer applies when a logical argument is considered. (The same with image editing in image editor - derivative)

This debate has been hammered to death again and again over the years. The simple fact is that the DAZ EULA has never been challenged in court. Ever.

Edited by Alyona Su
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

However, if you run it through your preferred non-DAZ-produced 3D modeling app and change it enough to create a derivative and it becomes fair use, then there you go. Based on DAZ EULA it also specifically states "Exported from DAZ and imported into [SL]..." - but if you pass it through Blender it can become a derivative where their license no longer applies. If you bring it through your own 3D modeling app then export it from there it is no longer a DAZ creation; it is your creation and DAZ EULA no longer applies when a logical argument is considered.

This debate has been hammered to death again and again over the years. The simple fact is that the DAZ EULA has never been challenged in court. Ever.

How much change constitutes "enough"? 

Quote

Five Considerations Regarding "Fair Use"

There are five basic considerations to keep in mind when deciding whether or not a particular use of an author's work is a fair use. These are the same considerations likely to weigh on the mind of a judge:

Rule 1: Are You Creating Something New or Just Copying?

The purpose and character of your intended use of the material involved is the single most important factor in determining whether a use is fair under U.S. copyright law. The question to ask here is whether you are merely copying someone else's work verbatim or instead using it to help create something new.

Rule 2: Are Your Competing With the Source You're Copying From?

Without consent, you ordinarily cannot use another person's protected expression in a way that impairs (or even potentially impairs) the market for his or her work.

For example, say Nick, a golf pro, writes a book on how to play golf. He copies several brilliant paragraphs on how to putt from a book by Lee Trevino, one of the greatest putters in golf history. Because Nick intends his book to compete with and hopefully supplant Trevino's, this use is not a fair use.

Rule 3: Giving the Author Credit Does Not Always Let You Off the Hook

Some people mistakenly believe that they can use any material as long as they properly give the author credit. Not true. Giving credit and fair use are completely separate concepts. Either you have the right to use another author's material under the fair use rule, or you do not. The fact that you attribute the material to the other author does not change that.

(Having said that, crediting your source will decrease the chances of litigation, since the original author may feel that he or she received appropriate credit.)

Rule 4: The More You Take, the Less Fair Your Use Is Likely to Be

The more material you lift from the original, the less likely it is that your use will be considered a fair use. As a broad standard, never quote more than a few successive paragraphs from a book or article, take more than one chart or diagram, include an illustration or other artwork in a book or newsletter without the artist's permission, or quote more than one or two lines from a poem.

Contrary to what many people believe, there is no absolute word limit on fair use. For example, copying 200 words from a work of 300 words wouldn't be fair use. However, copying 2,000 words from a work of 500,000 words might be fair. It all depends on the circumstances.

To preserve the free flow of information, authors are given more leeway when using material from factual works (scholarly, technical, or scientific works) than works of fancy, such as novels, poems, and plays.

Rule 5: The Quality of the Material Used Is as Important as the Quantity

The more important the material is to the original work, the less likely your use of it will be considered fair.

In one famous case, The Nation magazine obtained a copy of Gerald Ford's memoirs before their publication. In the magazine's article about the memoirs, only 300 words from Ford's 200,000-word manuscript were quoted verbatim. The Supreme Court ruled that this was not a fair use because the material quoted (dealing with the Nixon pardon) was the "heart of the book... the most interesting and moving parts of the entire manuscript," and that prepublication disclosure of this material would cut into value or sales of the book.

In determining whether your intended use of another author's protected work constitutes a fair use, apply the golden rule: Take from someone else only what you would not mind someone taking from you. This will help, should you ever need to defend your actions in court.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/fair-use-rule-copyright-material-30100.html

Edited by Silent Mistwalker

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13 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/53893/how-can-i-export-a-mesh-from-daz-studio-for-second-life

you are not permitted to IMPORT any DAZ Store products exported from DAZ Studio into Second Life specifically because it violates specific clauses within the product EULA. Furthermore Second Life is very unusual in that the TOS actually requires users to grant unlimited use of any uploaded object. That granting of rights is HIGHLY IN-CONGRUENT with the spirit and in clear VIOLATION of license granted to purchasers of DAZ Store content and that of most of its competitors including Renderosity, Content Paradise and others. Infact the Linden Labs TOS is so convoluted that even a Game License upgrade to your content will not provide the ability to use it legally in Second Life because YOU must be the OWNER have the ability to transfer grants to RESELL the product. No standard content license short of a brokering agreement I am aware of, will permit that.

 

That is for the buyer NOT the creator of said items.  

You are reading stuff on a forum which is opinions NOT truth.

There is nothing in either DAZ3d or Renderosity TOS which prohibits CREATORS from selling anywhere they wish.

I am not talking about buyers here....I'm talking about creators period.  

It's like the House of Chanel.  Coco Chanel died in 1971.  Who or whom has been creating each of the items released from the House of Chanel...I have no idea.  I do not even know who the current lead creator for Coco Chanel may be nor do I care.  I am just using this an example.  There are what you could call "ghost" creators here in SL.  Their name is not fore-front.  There could even be several creators as a team for one SL business.

The most likely reason items are not allowed by buyers of full perm items to use in other worlds is because the creator may already be there with those items.  They may sell here, there and everywhere.   Therefore, others are not allowed to sell them to another world.  

Got this from the Wikipedia:

Daz Studio also supports the import and export of various file formats for 3D objects and animations to allow for the use of other 3D content within Daz Studio, as well as to get content out of Daz Studio for use in other 3D applications.

Daz Studio is available for free, but registration is required.[2] Version 1.0 was released in Fall 2005.[3] Until version 1.7 it was officially known as DAZ|Studio. On February 1, 2012, DAZ 3D Inc. announced it would be giving away DAZ Studio Pro for free.[4]

Daz Studio doesn't sound like it's a 'can only be used in DAZ3d thing' to me.  But, then again, I am just coming across this particular platform/software and legal-ese can be difficult to understand at times.  However, there is nothing in DAZ3d TOS about not allowing creators to use their builds in other worlds.   

 

 

13 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

 

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

That is for the buyer NOT the creator of said items.  

You are reading stuff on a forum which is opinions NOT truth.

There is nothing in either DAZ3d or Renderosity TOS which prohibits CREATORS from selling anywhere they wish.

I am not talking about buyers here....I'm talking about creators period.  

It's like the House of Chanel.  Coco Chanel died in 1971.  Who or whom has been creating each of the items released from the House of Chanel...I have no idea.  I do not even know who the current lead creator for Coco Chanel may be nor do I care.  I am just using this an example.  There are what you could call "ghost" creators here in SL.  Their name is not fore-front.  There could even be several creators as a team for one SL business.

The most likely reason items are not allowed by buyers of full perm items to use in other worlds is because the creator may already be there with those items.  They may sell here, there and everywhere.   Therefore, others are not allowed to sell them to another world.  

Got this from the Wikipedia:

Daz Studio also supports the import and export of various file formats for 3D objects and animations to allow for the use of other 3D content within Daz Studio, as well as to get content out of Daz Studio for use in other 3D applications.

Daz Studio is available for free, but registration is required.[2] Version 1.0 was released in Fall 2005.[3] Until version 1.7 it was officially known as DAZ|Studio. On February 1, 2012, DAZ 3D Inc. announced it would be giving away DAZ Studio Pro for free.[4]

Daz Studio doesn't sound like it's a 'can only be used in DAZ3d thing' to me.  But, then again, I am just coming across this particular platform/software and legal-ese can be difficult to understand at times.  However, there is nothing in DAZ3d TOS about not allowing creators to use their builds in other worlds.   

 

 

 

I've been using Poser and Daz3d for more than a decade. You obviously have no clue what I was getting at. Go read the Daz3d ToS for yourself. 

https://www.daz3d.com/eula

Edited by Silent Mistwalker

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6 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I've been using Poser and Daz3d for more than a decade. You obviously have no clue what I was getting at. Go read the Daz3d ToS for yourself. 

 

No, you didn't get me.  You are a user.  What if the makers of the DAZ3d items are selling them here in SL?  Not users re-creating stuff.  Though Alyona is right in reference to fair use.  You would need to make it in Blender into another different looking object.  You'd need to change it 25% or more.  

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41 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

How much change constitutes "enough"? 

Take it to court and find out. The simple fact is with digital anything, the underlying computer code is able to determine how closely anything is a copy of another thing. Which is why the DAZ (and most other) EULA's are not enforceable in a court of law (in the United Sates, at least.)

In a nutshell, each person do wants to bring anything DAZ into SL has to decide the risk and amount of protection they have for themselves. I'm with enough knowledge that I'd do it without a thought, as long as I follow the rules set forth within the law (which my RL job requires me to have a strong understanding of, and for that I may be more fortunate in this regard than others.)

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1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

No, you didn't get me.  You are a user.  What if the makers of the DAZ3d items are selling them here in SL?  Not users re-creating stuff.  Though Alyona is right in reference to fair use.  You would need to make it in Blender into another different looking object.  You'd need to change it 25% or more.  

I understood exactly what you said. You are not understanding what I am saying. 

You can not buy something on Daz3d and then import into Second Life as is. PERIOD.

I NEVER said you could not make changes to comply with Fair Use. You are trying to put words in my posts I never typed. 

End of.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

No, you didn't get me.  You are a user.  What if the makers of the DAZ3d items are selling them here in SL?  Not users re-creating stuff.

They aren't.

Daz3d's character models are made by Daz3d.

Daz3d invites some third party modelers to also sell on it's site - under Daz's terms, ownership, and control.

If you see something like a highly detailed statue here, and on looking at it in wireframe, it is a Daz3d model such as Gen3 or whatever they're on now, that's theft.
- It's not owned by some creator, it's owned by Daz.

 

I've been using Poser and Daz since before it was called Daz. Back when it was Zygote - I got into it in 1999.

I'm not active with it at the moment, but I know what they sell and I know the history with Victoria (now Gen.version with Victoria a subset). It's a very distinctive model and it's super detailed because it's been in development since likely a little before I got into things (it came out before SL did, but they didn't just make it over the weekend one month). You can very easily spot when an SL 'statue' is ripped from one of these art models or comes from original work. The art models have polygons in places the statue has no need for - because they need that for movie quality animation. Likewise rips from games - distinctive polygon structure for real time animation and a noted lack of polygons in areas that won't be animated in the original game.

- There are non-Daz art models of course. If they're on Renderosity and then they show up here, that's theft. If they were somewhere else, it's almost 99% odds of theft - this stuff sells for hundreds to thousands of US dollars when you're talking about gaining the right to resell the original model. It goes for anywhere from $20-100 US  just to get a copy that can be used for art renders.


The original modeler could upload it to SL as well... but then they'd more likely do that to compete with something like Slink, Maitreya, or Belleza... and... if we all remember, some early fitmesh bodies got DCMA'd off the grid... probably because they were ripped. Even then it'd take notable rework to REDUCE the polygon count... that's what makes the statues so obvious... they're in here at original polygon count because they're ripped by people at my skill level... non-modelers...

 

 

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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Quote

The creation of three-dimensional physical representations (3D-print, molded copy, CNC-routed copy, and the like) of Content or any three-dimensional art derived from the Content is permitted only for personal, non-commercial use by the User. Additionally, the user may not grant other entities or individuals the right to produce such physical representations of the Content except for the sole purpose of providing the print to the User for their personal use.

https://www.daz3d.com/eula

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

They aren't.

Daz3d's character models are made by Daz3d.

Daz3d invites some third party modelers to also sell on it's site - under Daz's terms, ownership, and control.

If you see something like a highly detailed statue here, and on looking at it in wireframe, it is a Daz3d model such as Gen3 or whatever they're on now, that's theft.
- It's not owned by some creator, it's owned by Daz.

 

But, that's what I am saying.  The DAZ creators.  Not users.  

And, how do you know the DAZ3d creators (the owners of the software itself) or whatever are not selling here?  

I'm talking about the owner creators.  And, this is going back and forth and round and round.  I'm talking about the Big Cheese owners of certain worlds may be here in SL...not the users who sign up and/or create in regards to DAZ3d because it's a different kind of building thingy.  

But, I do not want to debate this over and over and over and over on speculation as though you know whom is actually selling every item in SL.  You do not know that.  LL could have asked the owners of DAZ3d to create some items and sell here.  I'm not talking about their user base. 

Edited by FairreLilette

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

But, that's what I am saying.  The DAZ creators.  Not users.  

And, how do you know the DAZ3d creators (the owners of the software itself) or whatever are not selling here? 

We know this from their own statements... And from how and who they do sell to...

 

There IS a license you can buy to get the models for use in game development, it's only available on a few select items. It's super expensive. and it does NOT cover selling $100L statues of people having sex on MP... :P

 

 

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap

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1 minute ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

We know this from their own statements... And from how and who they do sell to...

 

That's hearsay, Pussycat.  Nothing more. 

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