Odd Gemini CDS behavior

[Kirey Rang]

Greetings,

I came back to SL after a 3 years and a half long hiatus a month or so ago, and when trying to get back in shape with events and stores I used to like I came across this CDS system again at a store I

love, but this time I wasn't the one witnessing someone getting banned, this time the one getting banned was me. Well I contacted the owner who was kind enough to unban me and apologize cause

he saw I was his loyal customer, no big deal, nonetheless now I am noticing I'm getting banned as soon as I land from other stores and this is getting pretty annoying now.

 Now most will tell me it was automated cause I use malicious third party viewer, I'd like to know if Firestorm is among those malicious viewer cause I've been using it since Phoenix (few times tried Alchemy and Black Dragon but was ages ago).

Some of you would tell me that someone added me to a blacklist, wait on their marketplace listing it states "Detection is done in various ways, reliable with no chance for false positives. It works region-wide without utilizing channel listeners, probe-rezzing, sensors, !quit spamming or other inferior techniques. In accordance to the Second Life TOS there is no way for users to see any sensitive information or even add people to our database, it is completely automated." so is it violating it's own listing terms?

Someone added me on said list while I was offline? Why so?

I already tried contacting the seller of this "security system" but got no response, also filed an AR and support ticket, but all I got was someone answering with one of those automated response.

What are your thoughts on this?

P.s.: don't reply to this topic if you want to troll or if you had a bad day and you're looking for a target to unleash your frustration upon, thank you for your time.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Kirey Rang

[Kardargo Adamczyk]

hiya Kirey,

you can file an appeal with the creator of the product at http://appeals.gemini-cybernetics.net/

if you let them know the blocked viewer was used years ago, they will probably get you off the list...

good luck \0/

[Kirey Rang]

Let's be honest here, I have never used any blocked/illegal/copykat whatsover, for the solely reason those client smelled backdoored and fishy from miles away, so I don't really feel like appealing for something I didn't do.

[Alwin Alcott]

10 minutes ago, Kirey Rang said:

Let's be honest here

you ask or opinions but the first, with a possible solution is fired off at first try.
It's not pointing to you as guilty to something, just a repair of a false positive in this case as you state you are not to blame anything.
Try it, and it might be solved fast and smoothly.

AR's and support most likely can't do a lot for you if the system works in complience with TOS and Guidelines, it's free for every parcel/region owner to restrict acces for groups or individuals of their choice, for one or none reason at all.

[Selene Gregoire]

4 hours ago, Kirey Rang said:

Now most will tell me it was automated cause I use malicious third party viewer, I'd like to know if Firestorm is among those malicious viewer cause I've been using it since Phoenix (few times tried Alchemy and Black Dragon but was ages ago).

Firestorm remains the most widely used viewer on the TPV approved list.

Today's policy is to block older releases around every three or four releases.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Eric Castanea]

I'd not knowingly patronize a place that would use such a system.  😡

[Qie Niangao]

5 hours ago, Kirey Rang said:

I already tried contacting the seller of this "security system" but got no response, also filed an AR and support ticket, but all I got was someone answering with one of those automated response.

The automated response is all you'd ever get from the AR system, although you should eventually get some response to the support ticket.

The Lab didn't nuke CDS during the RedZone debacle so I doubt they ever will.

Since you've already tried contacting the CDS seller directly, the only other broad-spectrum approach is the appeal route, suggested above. I'm not sure you have to falsely "confess" to ever using a bad viewer, just give the background you gave here: you just came back after years away, only to discover that somehow in your absence your identity was banned in the CDS system. No point investing a lot of affect in the explanation because it may end up unviewed in the bitbucket anyway.

Otherwise I guess you're stuck sending a notice to all the CDS-blighted venues that you care about, one at a time, explaining the situation and asking for an exception at their specific location. Obviously that's an ongoing hassle; maybe somebody else has a better idea.

It is unfortunate anybody ever got duped into using the CDS system. They spent good money for it, too, all for the "benefit" of aggravating their good customers turned away by false positives that were promised never to happen. There's one born every minute -- and then somebody sells them an elixir for curing their imaginary ailments.

[Gabriele Graves]

@Kirey Rang  You could look at it like this, it takes all the effort out of knowing which places to avoid.  I wouldn't want to go to such places so they would be doing me a favour.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

7 hours ago, Kirey Rang said:

What are your thoughts on this?

My thoughts on this for anyone reading this thread are to keep SL Media disabled at all times if you are concered about your privacy and about wanting to stay off ban lists used by systems that generate agent signatures with extreme prejudice.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Kirey Rang]

@Alwin Alcott Sorry I didn't mean to belittle Kardargo proposal, but I don't feel like doing that also cause I'm not giving information on a page that isn't using secure socket.

@Gabriele Graves I would if the sims in question weren't two of my favourite stores, fortunately some know me and get in touch and help a lot.

@Eric Castanea I'd agree with you, but since the system has been sold from 2016 by a new owner (smart move tbh) some content creators use it not knowing the huge history of abuse this "system" has.

@Arduenn Schwartzman Oh don't have me started on that, I always had that off, I recently bought a Legagy body and I just noticed that to use some features of their hud you have to let script play media. >_<

 

Thank you for your replies ^^

[Solar Legion]

1. You will get random or trolling responses whether you like it or not. Welcome to public forums 
2. All of these systems are prone to false positives - no exceptions
3. Any location that uses this or similar systems is not worth your time - no exceptions, no excuses

That about covers it. 

Welcome back to Second Life and have a lovely evening. 

 

[Cinos Field]

I've never heard of CDS before but given the claim of no false positives on a system that relies on information that your client sends to SL... yeah, it's a scam. Since the owner will obviously not admit that his own marketing claims are false, the best way as I see is to message the owners of stores that ban you and explaining that they're losing business. If they refuse to stop using the system... well, it's really their loss.

[CheriColette]

I have not heard of CDS before either, nor am I a troll and I have had a great day thanks, settling down to read my favourite forum and maybe post a few times too.

You are new here @Kirey Rang, and a little distressed (sorry about that) but any member can reply to any post they wish, its not for you to mandate. 

[Kirey Rang]

@Solar Legion Well in the end I came to think about it like you do, thank you very much!

@Cinos Field That's what I tried to do, some owners replied and helped me, others won't I guess if they don't care why should I.

[Kirey Rang]

@Cinos Field Furthermore, three sim owners (stores) that reached out and helped admitted they could modify the blacklist and whitelist, that is quite contradictory to the system marketplace listing description. 😮

[Solar Legion]

Unless the description explicitly states that the personal black and white lists cannot be altered in any way, nothing is contrary there.

[Kirey Rang]

@Solar Legion You are right there, but I thought it was implicit since their listing states "there is no way for users to see any sensitive information or even add people to our database, it is completely automated." makes me understand that there is a shared database external to grid and not notecard based system.

Also "CDS is a networked system, banlists are automatically shared so CDS users benefit from each other." doesn't specific the existence of personal black and white lists.

[TronyaSouther]

Goonsquad/Bug Island kiddies shouldn't play dumb. You know exactly why CDS flagged you.

[Tari Landar]

Any store that still uses CDS isn't a store I'd patronize....simple as that. Don't particularly care if it's a store I love, if they later fixed it, or if their excuse is "I had no idea". It's super simple to find out the history of CDS so, not much of an excuse.

That's as bad as the landowners that go around all blibbity blabbity "oooh, so and so was a bad girl on my land, you should ban her too". Maybe so and so wasn't a bad girl at all, but landowner doesn't like her. I mean landowners can ban whomever they wish for whatever reason they wish, or none at all (provided they themselves do so within the TOS) of course. But going around to others with your lists...is about as effective and smart as using CDS (which is just an "automated" version of the same damn game of telephone). I never bothered sharing the reasons why the very few folks who were ever on my ban list were there, except to those on the list(if they asked, lol). Why would it matter to anyone else? 

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

Time to can the CDS system.

[Kirey Rang]

I'm glad all of you share my same thoughts, also hello there Fitty @TronyaSouther

[Solar Legion]

There is nothing in that quoted description that suggests there are no user based black and whitelists. Nothing.

What it does suggest/state is that the end user cannot access or alter the detection system and the database associated with it.

You add a user to either of your personal lists and it may or may not then share that addition through its network.

Now it ought to be noted that being able to share these lists is not what some take issue with, it is the "automated detection" capability and the fact that the system uses this to add users to the internal database without the owner of a node doing a single thing or having a say in the matter.

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

I refuse to patronize any place of business that uses CDS or anything like it. Those businesses do not get any Ls from me. CDS does nothing but breed paranoia and fear, just as RedZone did. The only reason CDS is still on the grid is because the creator was smarter than zFire in the way in which he dealt with LL over it.

[Sassy Kenin]

If my memory serves me right from reading NWN,  CDS  was somehow related to the founder of InSilico who was politely nudged by the lab to take an extended vacation from the grid a few years back?

[Love Zhaoying]

On 10/3/2019 at 6:01 AM, Kirey Rang said:

P.s.: don't reply to this topic if you want to troll or if you had a bad day and you're looking for a target to unleash your frustration upon, thank you for your time.

That's not how it works. We can reply however we like. Why would you preemptively try to prevent negative responses? That makes no sense.