Automatically unlisted items - what's going on?

[Dakota Linden]

Hi Elissa Taka,

Unfortunately, some emails get blocked by email providers spam filters since Second Life sends out thousands of emails a day to users.  Yahoo is notorious for blocking/filtering emails from Second Life, but some other providers may also filter them. 

Customer Support is unable to unblock the item since the item was removed for Legal reasons (Copyright or Trademark), but if you submit a Support Ticket under Marketplace - Marketplace Listing Issues and include that the item was removed under the Intellectual Property Policy, the Customer Support agent can provide you with a way to submit your request to have the item unblocked so that it can be edited. 

[Ela Talaj]

On 10/8/2019 at 2:20 PM, Pussycat Catnap said:

Of course part of my problem was that the company owner was our worst offender... he was one of those 'old guys that rants a lot' and triggered a LOT of his users...

 - We had to ban/block them, and make his own posts vanish in ways that looked like technical glitches... and the never ending race to refine the list was driven by him trying out new ways to be a racist dirty old man on his own customer support forum... And us trying to find new ways to make it look like the forum software was just glitchy...

 

I can't help wondering just why and how a customer support forum would turn into a discussion (rants) page.

[Lex Macabre]

Thank you for posting this topic.

I just discovered my entire store on  the MP was unlisted.

I am so confused as to why.

I was not notified of this via email and I get regular emails from my MP products and SL in general, so I am not sure why it would not come through when all others do.

I am able to manually relist them with no error message.

Going through 134 items to relist is a bit of a pain though

I have contacted customer support so I will just  have to wait and see the outcome

[Pamela Galli]

On 11/6/2019 at 4:51 PM, Dakota Linden said:

Customer Support is unable to unblock the item since the item was removed for Legal reasons (Copyright or Trademark),

So we can never, for legal reasons, use the words converse, dawn, dove, splash, or any other common word that shares a name with some product. 

[Tari Landar]

On 11/15/2019 at 8:32 AM, Pamela Galli said:

On 11/6/2019 at 5:51 PM, Dakota Linden said:

Customer Support is unable to unblock the item since the item was removed for Legal reasons (Copyright or Trademark),

So we can never, for legal reasons, use the words converse, dawn, dove, splash, or any other common word that shares a name with some product. 

I want to preface this by saying I'm just using your post as a jumping off point, Pamela, because it best describes what I'm about to type  

This crap (above bolded), which has been stated numerous times by LL, in various different forms, pisses me off to absolutely no end. That is such a cover your own ass, but also not legal, thing to do (it's not necessarily illegal, it's just not legally represented by anything at all). The word converse is not a copyright or a trademark, in any language, in any country. Converse, in fact, has a trademark based on a product configuration NOT their company name, because the word existed long before the company did and they can't trademark it without the product configuration existing  within (qualifying) the trademark (and copyrights where applicable) as well! This proves to me that this whole damn list of no no words, is completely and utterly made up and not even REMOTELY used against or with any existing databases for copyright and trademarks. These words are arbitrarily added to a damn list by someone that perhaps THINKS they are trademarked or copyrighted, but they actually aren't. I don't know if LL is using a list created by someone else, or a list they are making up as they go along (I suspect where legalities are concerned, they may be using someone else's list and where generals and generics are concerned, such as maturity level flagging..their own). Trademarks and copyrights are actually pretty damn specific and individually applicable. So the word Converse as a product name, might not fly, while the word converse as a descriptive or action word, will nearly always fly. Trademarks are a bit more complicated in that they require far more specifics, and proof before they can be granted, whereas copyrights do not always require as much (or even any at all, in some cases, depending on how the laws are being upheld, and the situation at hand)

Converse is not now, nor has it ever been, a trademark or copyrighted word. Converse, the company, is actually very much gung ho when it comes to protecting their products (I respect that, some companies NEED to be very proactive) But it is over product DESIGN not the word converse. Feel free to look it up, the company is very litigious and has been since its inception. Not once has it been over the word converse, because they hold no trademark or copyright over the word (because, legally, they cannot). Dove, for example, is two different company names, and both make vastly different products. Neither company holds a copyright or trademark over the word dove. 

This shouldn't bother me as much as it does, since it rarely actually affects me, but it really pisses me off when the CYA explanations start flying, and they're flat out wrong. LL does what it can to follow US(global) law when it comes to trademarks and copyrights, as well they should. But it needs to stop being used as a crutch for every crappy move (like these arbitrary no no words lists...a piss poor move since its inception). "We did this because it's a law".... except they forget it's really NOT a law. Save those protections for trademarks and copyrights that actually exist..because there are millions of them, and those need to be carefully monitored. Not arbitrary words that are neither copyrighted nor trademarked. I don't know where the hell anyone got the idea that they are. 

[Pamela Galli]

26 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

Dove, for example, is two different company names, and both make vastly different products. Neither company holds a copyright or trademark over the word dove. 

Good point in a good post. 😀

[Desudesudesuka]

Of course because it's trending "pokemon" and "nintendo" are no-nos. All the Pokemon furry stuff on the MP just got nuked.

[Eowyn Southmoor]

I am a new when it comes to dealing with Marketplace issues, so I apologise if I am hijacking this thread, but I wasn't sure if I should start my own when I seem to have a similar issue.

A few days ago, I had two items pulled from the MP, both for the reason "removed Under Our Intellectual Property Policy".  Now, whilst I generally understand what that means, I don't find it to be very specific, as in which aspect of the item caused it to become removed.

The reason it's confusing me is because I have a general idea on what is the IP issue with it, and yet a quick search on MP reveals several other items from other creators that are basically identical to mine.

It really looks like double-standards to me, so I am wondering how I can get some more detailed information about this?

[LittleMe Jewell]

On 11/6/2019 at 3:51 PM, Dakota Linden said:

Customer Support is unable to unblock the item since the item was removed for Legal reasons (Copyright or Trademark)

This sounds like the generalized statements we get at work about our Help Desk and almost always means that someone in charge does not trust the Help Desk folks to make a proper decision about something - which is a somewhat sad way of viewing your employees.

[Cindy Evanier]

2 hours ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

The reason it's confusing me is because I have a general idea on what is the IP issue with it, and yet a quick search on MP reveals several other items from other creators that are basically identical to mine.

Just means nobody has flagged those items yet or if they have been flagged, not found to be in violation

[Arwen Serpente]

There is no option for flagging for IP infringement. The option that is there directs you to contact the IP owner and to file a DMCA. The message given is " We can only process intellectual property complaints from authorized persons in compliance with legal processes. Please refer to our Intellectual Property Policy for more information and instructions on how to submit an intellectual property notice. "

So either the IP owner contacted LL with a DMCA (you would have received it by email from LL), or, the items have been caught in the stricter IP filter that LL is using and the one that has caused erroneous de-listings. I'd contact Support even though they do generally respond that IP infringement is not their area and ask anyway.

As to why yours were caught and de-listed and others weren't - that's pretty common. The filter doesn't catch everything, so it does appear unfair if yours is and someone else's isn't.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Arwen Serpente

[Pamela Galli]

31 minutes ago, Arwen Serpente said:

We can only process intellectual property complaints from authorized persons in compliance with legal processes.

So they say. So I guess that means that a Converse shoe employee was poring over my SL dining set listings for IP infringement, and hurried to file a DMCA complaint to LL about my use of the verb “converse”.  In case anyone thought I was advertising shoes.

[Arwen Serpente]

2 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

So they say. So I guess that means that a Converse shoe employee was poring over my SL dining set listings for IP infringement, and hurried to file a DMCA complaint to LL about my use of the verb “converse”.  In case anyone thought I was advertising shoes.

lol, I doubt that Pamela   Yours looks like a case of an overactive and misapplied filter.

[Lexbot Sinister]

On 10/10/2019 at 10:58 AM, Elvina Ewing said:

and when LL finally notices their MP revenue has gone down because half of the MP is unlisted and merchants have no idea, do you think it will ring a bell or two? Nope, they will just raise the fees again and continue on their merry way....

 

Are you an oracle?

[Tari Landar]

On 11/24/2019 at 2:33 PM, Arwen Serpente said:

lol, I doubt that Pamela   Yours looks like a case of an overactive and misapplied filter.

It's a straight up misunderstanding of how to use filters and an overactive ego of whoever is randomly adding crap to the filter just because.

A properly created and implemented filter wouldn't catch words that aren't trademarked or copyrighted at all. Converse is not now, nor has it ever been trademarked or copyrighted, not even when associated with footwear (some consider the latter a grey area, but from a legal standpoint...it's actually not).

You can't arbitrarily add words to filters and claim i's for legal purposes...that in and of itself violates copyright and trademark laws  

Edited November 25, 2019 by Tari Landar

[Elvina Ewing]

17 hours ago, Lexbot Sinister said:

 

Are you an oracle?

i would laugh if it wasn't so sad... I was being sarcastic, but if my words proved indeed to be true, then i think we should all be worried...

The timing certainly fits: 1) LL's trademark filters go haywire on MP; >> 2) thousands of listing get unlisted and hundreds of merchants are unaware and can't fix the problem so they remain unlisted; >> 3) LL notices the MP cashflow has reduced >> 4) LL raise the MP fee to fix the cashflow problem. All in the course of what, 1 month?

[Kyrah Abattoir]

On 11/25/2019 at 8:58 PM, Tari Landar said:

Converse

To keep company; associate; hold intercourse: followed by with.

[Pamela Galli]

On 11/3/2019 at 6:48 AM, Alyona Su said:

.

Perhaps a thesaurus is the way to go, adapt and move on.

Or not. 

 

[Eowyn Southmoor]

Well an update on my issue. I contacted the LL  IP team, and was told the reason my two items were pulled were because one word I used as a search keyword wasn't relevant to my products. Basically, according to them, I am guilty of keyword spamming.

I'm not going to argue the validity of this, as I can prove quite simply to any reasonable person how the word I included does relate to my products, the real issue here is that these items haven't simply been unlisted, they've been removed. If all I need to do is remove a word or two from the keyword search, then why not simply unlist the product and tell me? Now, on my product listings page, there is no option to edit these items, all I can do is delete them. 

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

2 hours ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

Well an update on my issue. I contacted the LL  IP team, and was told the reason my two items were pulled were because one word I used as a search keyword wasn't relevant to my products. Basically, according to them, I am guilty of keyword spamming.

I'm not going to argue the validity of this, as I can prove quite simply to any reasonable person how the word I included does relate to my products, the real issue here is that these items haven't simply been unlisted, they've been removed. If all I need to do is remove a word or two from the keyword search, then why not simply unlist the product and tell me? Now, on my product listings page, there is no option to edit these items, all I can do is delete them. 

This really sucks; would there be any point opening a ticket referencing this forum thread and requesting that the items be restored?  Good luck anyway.

[Brooke Fairplay]

Well it is January 28, 2020 and some stuff of mine got delisted today. None of it makes sense, a wall decal that says p.s. i love you, all with my own fonts, why that wall decal and not the rest? Greeting cards that "I" designed yet I see greeting cards by other designer's who just copied a graphic online. Flowers in a pot, sculpted balloons I created with purchased textures. I just don't get it and fed up. 

[Ample Clarity]

7 hours ago, Brooke Fairplay said:

Well it is January 28, 2020 and some stuff of mine got delisted today. None of it makes sense, a wall decal that says p.s. i love you, all with my own fonts, why that wall decal and not the rest? Greeting cards that "I" designed yet I see greeting cards by other designer's who just copied a graphic online. Flowers in a pot, sculpted balloons I created with purchased textures. I just don't get it and fed up. 

You can figure which word is delisting your items through a process of elimination. 

[Dima Plessis]

On 1/28/2020 at 11:48 PM, Ample Clarity said:

You can figure which word is delisting your items through a process of elimination. 

Sure, but it's a massive waste of time when a) you don't know if/when your stuff can or will be delisted again when the next person decides to add more words to the filter and b) You may have to do this time consuming process of elimination for tens of listings. Nothing against you for making the suggestion, for those who want to bother trying, but LL needs to fix this.

Come on LL, you already raised the MP fees to 10% but rather than get a better MP experience it seems like lately the MP is more work than it's worth. Deslistings for innocuous words, gacha scams leaving sellers out of valuable items AND the money they were paid? No thanks.

Honestly I've just removed all my current products and use MP for only my oldest items. To me it's just not worth the time, effort, and fee hike.

[Brooke Fairplay]

Just received an email that I RECEIVED AN EMAIL telling me why my items were de-listed. LL does not get it. None of us received an email. I have checked my account info over and over again and checked my spam folder, Nothing, no notifications. No pattern. I  get emails for for everything else related to SL so why did I not get that email? Because it obviously was never sent. 

[Nerxual Oh]

Does LindenLab have a list of banned text? This is getting out of hand with them... Three emails but four products unlisted. I don't have 'leg' in any of boxes either. This guessing bullcrap from LL has to stop