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Mattress Runningbear

Mesh - Seriously is it even worth the trouble???

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You need mesh they said. It will make you look better they said.

I have been in and out of secondlife for years, I heard of this amazing thing called mesh thats apparently meant to change the way you look massively. I finally caved and got it.

What....the....hell?

I have spent all weekend just trying to get dressed. I have never know such a fiddly complicated system in all my life! I found that I had a mesh shirt already, popped it on. Oh now my skin poking through. Took me a few hours of googling, trying things, before I finally worked out how to fix that in the HUD. Phew! Now to buy shoes and pants. Shoes go on fine, great. Pants, skin showing through them too. Thats ok, I remember how to fix that in the HUD. Absolutely nothing happens this time. Then I notice my shirt has holes in it again, HUD won't fix that either. Another couple of hours googling (by the way, it REALLY does not help when you google these things and all results are for people creating mesh!!!), I somehow get the pants looking good, only now the shoes have my feet sticking out of them, and my arms have disappeared!!! I can get my left arm back but not the right!!

Seriously, I am THIS close to deleting mesh. If anyone tells me this is the norm every time you change, its gone. I figure its not, because everyone seems to swear by it. Clearly I am missing something, but I cannot find it in google, this forum, or sheer luck!

 

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Its not the norm. Mesh bodies, and the clothes that are rigged for them are so much more pleasant to look at than system/classic ones.

But like anything there can be a learning curve. Stick with it, try new things a little bit at a time and Im sure very soon you will be wondering how you ever made these mistakes.

Maybe head to a newbie learning center, like New Residents Island, they have tutorials on clothing there and often official helpers who can explain it all in person much better than I can over a forum.

Good luck, don't give up, it is worth it.

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49 minutes ago, Mattress Runningbear said:

What....the....hell?

lol

I think I like you.

I've been using mesh clothing since 2013, but first started using mesh body parts a little less than a year ago. There is, unquestionably, an awful learning curve. And those learning are definitely not assisted by the failure of mesh creators (especially for mesh bodies and heads) to get it together enough to standardize the way these work. In part as a result of that lack of standardization, there is also a real lack of tutorials and knowledge bases for how this all works.

However, it does get much easier. There are places you can get help, notably here on the forums (we have some incredibly knowledgeable and generous people who jump in to answer questions and help solve problems), and Kiri's advice, above, is also good. If even a dolt like me can master it (mostly), so, I'm sure, can you.

And it looks so much nicer. Really. Even the boobs (although I still think that even mesh boobs are mostly pretty crap).

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Now that we have mesh clothing, I see system layer/applier clothing as the SL equivalent of body paint.  Sure it can look like clothing at a glance but look closer and you are still naked.  Compared to mesh it most of it just looks so flat.  Sure mesh can look somewhat flat too if all someone did was slap a texture on a single plane but good mesh pops depth-wise with proper 3D detailing and that gives realism.  Once it did not matter to me because that was all that was available but now we have better.  As others have said mesh bodies are so much better looking with much more diverse range of looks than the system avatar ever could manage (just for the pickier folks, yes we know that the system avatar is mesh too), especially the hands and feet which were the worst part of the system avatar by far.  A lot of us were wearing mesh hands and feet for a long time before switching to mesh bodies and heads.

It is absolutely worth persevering with in my opinion.  Simple and easy never brings the best results, it always takes more effort for the best.

Edited by Gabriele Graves
removed a space
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So... what did you get? I'm asking because you aren't going to the store and get some glowing orb and then you got "mesh". Thats like saying I got prim. And yes, mesh does look better, overall. In terms of clothing it made many things possible, that weren't possible before (or, looked kinda weird if you tried to do it with prims). My favorite blessing in that category are overknee boots. Finally no odd two-piece things, that poke out, when you bend your knee. The other (and even bigger) improvement are probably bodyparts in general, but especially feet. You can't tell me thats not a visual improvement to what the Lindens gave us.

I never had huge problems with mesh. One time reading what I need to do got me settled for a start. Sure, the most complicated HUD functionalities of my mesh head might take me a moment longer, but simply getting dressed is not more difficult, than wearing anything else in SL.

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2 hours ago, Mattress Runningbear said:

You need mesh they said. It will make you look better they said.

I have been in and out of secondlife for years, I heard of this amazing thing called mesh thats apparently meant to change the way you look massively. I finally caved and got it.

What....the....hell?

I have spent all weekend just trying to get dressed. I have never know such a fiddly complicated system in all my life! I found that I had a mesh shirt already, popped it on. Oh now my skin poking through. Took me a few hours of googling, trying things, before I finally worked out how to fix that in the HUD. Phew! Now to buy shoes and pants. Shoes go on fine, great. Pants, skin showing through them too. Thats ok, I remember how to fix that in the HUD. Absolutely nothing happens this time. Then I notice my shirt has holes in it again, HUD won't fix that either. Another couple of hours googling (by the way, it REALLY does not help when you google these things and all results are for people creating mesh!!!), I somehow get the pants looking good, only now the shoes have my feet sticking out of them, and my arms have disappeared!!! I can get my left arm back but not the right!!

Seriously, I am THIS close to deleting mesh. If anyone tells me this is the norm every time you change, its gone. I figure its not, because everyone seems to swear by it. Clearly I am missing something, but I cannot find it in google, this forum, or sheer luck!

 

All the mesh body makers I know have user groups that you can chat with to answer your questions. Many have customer service folks that are online all the time to help. There are also groups that are "mesh body in general" that have members using various bodies.  

 

The only "norm" that you refer to that would be truthful is that you frequently have to redo your alphas after changing clothes. SOME clothing has automatic alphaing that does a good job, other do not. There are slots on most mesh bodies where you can save your often used (and sometimes complex) alpha scheme for a particular outfit. I use them sometimes, but honestly once you get the hang of it -- it takes very little time to click on the slpha slots. Some are easier than others though. Maitreya is much easier than Altamura for example.  

 

EACH body has a different system so really it is important to join in with some folks using the same body that you are using.  

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I do not know any of the common used bodies that can't let you add more alpha cuts. When you have the shirt cuts, you add on more for the legs and feet. This works, and I have lots of different bodies. On both me and my alts, all are 100% mesh.

We need to know more. There are so many bodies, and in case you bought some body that's a niche or a super low priced one that has the functions drastically reduced due to its low price, we can't help you.

Do you know how to take a picture of you, or link to the products you wear. You can open "worn" in the inventory tab and use the list.

Everything new feels different, but when it's learnt, it becomes routine. I prefer the small time I use on it, because it is better than look like I painted the clothes on.

 

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5 hours ago, Mattress Runningbear said:

You need mesh they said. It will make you look better they said.

I have been in and out of secondlife for years, I heard of this amazing thing called mesh thats apparently meant to change the way you look massively. I finally caved and got it.

What....the....hell?

I have spent all weekend just trying to get dressed. I have never know such a fiddly complicated system in all my life! I found that I had a mesh shirt already, popped it on. Oh now my skin poking through. Took me a few hours of googling, trying things, before I finally worked out how to fix that in the HUD. Phew! Now to buy shoes and pants. Shoes go on fine, great. Pants, skin showing through them too. Thats ok, I remember how to fix that in the HUD. Absolutely nothing happens this time. Then I notice my shirt has holes in it again, HUD won't fix that either. Another couple of hours googling (by the way, it REALLY does not help when you google these things and all results are for people creating mesh!!!), I somehow get the pants looking good, only now the shoes have my feet sticking out of them, and my arms have disappeared!!! I can get my left arm back but not the right!!

Seriously, I am THIS close to deleting mesh. If anyone tells me this is the norm every time you change, its gone. I figure its not, because everyone seems to swear by it. Clearly I am missing something, but I cannot find it in google, this forum, or sheer luck!

 

I so very feel you. I left sL in 2013 and came back last year. The questionmarks all over my head were there at least for one month. But then it started to get routine again. Only thing what brings me to mental breakdown everytime is, when I get disconnected and all my savings on the huds (makeup, skin etc) are gone and I have to fumble again. And that happens a lot to me.

 

But...stay with mesh. You look better. More polygones. No square botty anymore! :D

 

Btw. It is really important of which body you are using. If you are using the "free" ones offered on the grid, they are very limited.

Edited by Unity SecretSpy
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I went to a mesh body for one reason and one reason ONLY, to get rid of alpha cuts. I don’t use them, period! Okay, if I buy something cheap that has no demo, then maybe, but most of that just gets deleted if it does not fit.

You can only use clothing that is made for the body you are using.

A mesh body is better but way more difficult to purchase clothing for, absolutely most of the clothing on the market will not fit your body, no matter what body you have. I consider the market broken because of this making most of the clothing usable.

I have resorted to using two different mesh bodies that are kind of close to each other, that gives me a larger assortment of clothing to pick from.

But I think mesh is better, its just way, way more expensive and way, way less selection of what fits

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How much of an improvement mesh bodies might be depends on things like how much of your skin you have showing and what graphics settings you tend to use. When graphics are low, all those dozens of faces on the mesh body can do weird things with lighting. If you're wearing long trousers, it truly does not matter if you have air-brushed smooth legs underneath. And so on. My boy alt tends to wear trousers and long sleeves so why carry all that extra geometry around just to have it alphaed out?

Mesh clothing over a system body with alphas (not alpha cuts) is my prefered way to go. They've fallen out of favour with those who spend lots of money and thus with those who sell, but it's a good inbetween and not as complicated as the whole HUD & alpha cut routine. (Alpha cuts are all those tiny faces on a mesh body that get made transparent; a clothing alpha is a single piece worn on the system body under a mesh garment. You'll be wearing a full body alpha under a mesh body to make the system one invisible.)

My health and stamina are lousy, so every extra minute I spend trying to get dressed is less time I have to do more important things like talk with friends. The building alt got a mesh body so I could have bento hands on the beta grid but otherwise it's more trouble than it's worth to me. Even when I have both my building alt and main in summer dresses, I don't notice one being nicer than the other (unless of course the lighting is being glitchy and the mesh body shows up patchy).

The whole mesh body eco-system has complicated shopping no end as well, but that's just part of slife now. I think we've lost more than we've gained with this.

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While obviously this can differ depending on your gender, body brand and clothing brand; but from my experience, the vast majority of up-to-date mesh clothing will apply alpha cuts automatically when you wear them (if the cuts are required at all). Getting dressed is honestly as simple as pressing right click -> add to a couple of items of clothing, not even remotely difficult or awkward. If you're still using the ancient 'standard sizes' on free or hipster body brands, then your mileage will probably vary. Mesh clothing doesn't need to be tricky; and if it is, it's most likely down to your own choices.

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17 hours ago, Mattress Runningbear said:

I have spent all weekend just trying to get dressed. I have never know such a fiddly complicated system in all my life! I found that I had a mesh shirt already, popped it on. Oh now my skin poking through. Took me a few hours of googling, trying things, before I finally worked out how to fix that in the HUD. 

Read the manual that came with the body and HUD.

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18 hours ago, Mattress Runningbear said:

If anyone tells me this is the norm every time you change, its gone.

It's not the norm at all. Yes, there's a learning curve for mesh, but we've all gone through it and - if you take your time, poke around in the HUDs, and try lots of demos - you'll get the hang of it. I was actually yelling in frustration at my computer screen the first few times I tried mesh heads, but I'm a stubborn git and perservered with it. Now it's my turn to help others work their way 'into mesh', since I'm now a CSR for a major mesh head brand. If I can get past those frustrations and get to a point where I'm helping and teaching others then anyone can.

18 hours ago, Mattress Runningbear said:

I somehow get the pants looking good, only now the shoes have my feet sticking out of them, and my arms have disappeared!!!

The shoe issue can be fixed by checking your body's HUD and selecting the correct height of heel for the footwear. Some boots might need you to hide the feet entirely using the HUD. As to the disappearing arms, it sounds as if one of the clothing items you wore has an 'auto-alpha' script in it. These can be both a blessing (saving you the trouble of having to click all those alpha cuts on your HUD to hide parts of your body) and a pain in the arse (if it doesn't un-hide after taking off the article of clothing).

It might help us to help you if you tell us which mesh body you've purchased.

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@Mattress Runningbear (and what a wonderful name THAT is!),

Until we know what brand of mesh body you're using, we can only offer general advice.  Here's mine:

  • Key fact to remember: A mesh body is an attachment, just like shoes or a purse. 
  • Your classic avatar body needs to be hidden, or it will poke through your mesh body.  Your mesh body comes with a full body alpha mask layer that you wear to accomplish this.
  • Your mesh body often needs to have ITS alpha'd areas adjusted too, to keep from poking through mesh clothing.  The body's HUD is used to accomplish this.
  • You must match the skin tone of your head (I'm assuming here that it's still the system head) and your mesh body.  Most skin makers now sell or provide "appliers" to apply a skin tone to most major types of mesh body.  This is LOTS easier than trying to manually color match.
  • Pay attention to compatibility when buying clothes.  For example, if you plan to use the feet included with a Maitreya body, don't buy shoes that are only made for SLink feet.

If you like the look of your classic avatar, be aware that the body slider settings you're using to create that look will very likely make your mesh body look awful.  At the same time, if you use the shape provided by the mesh body creator, your face will look nothing like the "old you".  Here's a way out:  Wear your old classic shape.  Go into Appearance mode.  WRITE DOWN the numbers for all of the sliders that pertain to the head and face area.  Now, wear the shape provided by the mesh body creator.  Wear the mesh body.  Adjust any of the appearance sliders that pertain to the BODY (torso, legs, etc.) until you like your curves.  Then enter the data you wrote down earlier for the head and face sliders. 

And yes...like you, many of us wonder at times if mesh is worth it.  Getting dressed used to be SO much simpler!

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On 9/22/2019 at 12:44 AM, Mattress Runningbear said:

You need mesh they said. It will make you look better they said.

I have been in and out of secondlife for years, I heard of this amazing thing called mesh thats apparently meant to change the way you look massively. I finally caved and got it.

What....the....hell?

I have spent all weekend just trying to get dressed. I have never know such a fiddly complicated system in all my life! I found that I had a mesh shirt already, popped it on. Oh now my skin poking through. Took me a few hours of googling, trying things, before I finally worked out how to fix that in the HUD. Phew! Now to buy shoes and pants. Shoes go on fine, great. Pants, skin showing through them too. Thats ok, I remember how to fix that in the HUD. Absolutely nothing happens this time. Then I notice my shirt has holes in it again, HUD won't fix that either. Another couple of hours googling (by the way, it REALLY does not help when you google these things and all results are for people creating mesh!!!), I somehow get the pants looking good, only now the shoes have my feet sticking out of them, and my arms have disappeared!!! I can get my left arm back but not the right!!

Seriously, I am THIS close to deleting mesh. If anyone tells me this is the norm every time you change, its gone. I figure its not, because everyone seems to swear by it. Clearly I am missing something, but I cannot find it in google, this forum, or sheer luck!

 

don't get me started with huds for body... huds for your head... and when you got that almost right.. just almost.. there is an even more pronunciated learning curve: the bakes on mesh..   :-S

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Visually mesh imo is so much prettier from the standpoint that I come to SL to play pixel Barbie.  

Mesh to me means no more woodblock feet (articulated toes!), more control over my shape (& with the brand Belleza you get two types of bewbs- regular & perky pushup) & the sharp jaggedness a prim body can have is gone.  My hands can have long nails that don't have to be reset to stick back on my hands (and Bento aos mean my fingers can articulate & grasp things in a realistic way.). My mesh head allows me to really individualize my face in a way standard just can't.  Add on mesh ears have the definition that can't be achieved with regular heads.   If you choose to have a bento head there are so many things you can do now with your emotions and expressions and add-ons such as candy or cigarettes or pipes.

My wigs no longer looks like stuck on hollowed out watermelons, and moves with me without cutting thru me like flexi hair.

All the details that's given now to shoes and even simple things like zippers and buttons on the fly of a pair of jeans, or the beautiful slowly twist of a skirt that sculpties can't give.  

I by no means want to insult anyone with my opinions of mesh versus someone who may prefer a system body.   They're just really good selling points to me on why you might want to consider mesh.

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I still have a system avatar and I'm happy that way.   If you have a fairly slim female shape and a good skin, then unless you want to keep pointing your fingers and sticking your tongue out, 'system' is OK .  When it comes to clothes and hair, not so good though.  For me I find . . . .

Tight-fitting clothes - system generally OK

Loose clothes - mesh best.

Hair - mesh best. 

Shoes - mesh best.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Some of my fondest memories are pre-mesh, even though I'm pretty young in SL terms. Having said that, I'd never go back to system feet. Or hands, for that matter.

I started out with mesh with Slink feet and a system body. Then Slink hands, still with a system body. Had that for a while. Now I'm full Slink Hourglass, but with a system head. Comfortable like that, and still haven't found a mesh head I like better. And I've demoed a bunch.

It was a gradual process for me. So I didn't find the learning curve very steep at all. It's still continuing, of course, but I'm comfortable where I am right now. So just take your time. Don't delete anything, you'll probably regret it.

Edit: Oh, and auto hide with  the newest updates and clothing is just fantastic. So those just starting out now might actually have it easier than ever before.

Edited by BraveHot

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On 9/22/2019 at 5:44 AM, Mattress Runningbear said:

You need mesh they said. It will make you look better they said.

I have been in and out of secondlife for years, I heard of this amazing thing called mesh thats apparently meant to change the way you look massively. I finally caved and got it.

What....the....hell?

I have spent all weekend just trying to get dressed. I have never know such a fiddly complicated system in all my life! I found that I had a mesh shirt already, popped it on. Oh now my skin poking through. Took me a few hours of googling, trying things, before I finally worked out how to fix that in the HUD. Phew! Now to buy shoes and pants. Shoes go on fine, great. Pants, skin showing through them too. Thats ok, I remember how to fix that in the HUD. Absolutely nothing happens this time. Then I notice my shirt has holes in it again, HUD won't fix that either. Another couple of hours googling (by the way, it REALLY does not help when you google these things and all results are for people creating mesh!!!), I somehow get the pants looking good, only now the shoes have my feet sticking out of them, and my arms have disappeared!!! I can get my left arm back but not the right!!

Seriously, I am THIS close to deleting mesh. If anyone tells me this is the norm every time you change, its gone. I figure its not, because everyone seems to swear by it. Clearly I am missing something, but I cannot find it in google, this forum, or sheer luck!

 

Well, your reaction is everyone's reaction to something new they don't understand. mesh, like old bodies is a question of layers but those don't automaticallty adapt if the clothe has been badly built; so you MAY need to use the supplied alpha layer to hide imperfections, this is all.

It's all a question of not panic and get slowly used to it. Strawberry SINGH does nice YOUTUBE videos about that (too). Take it easy ;)

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I feel you. I came in a month ago and with direction of friends bought mesh everything. It's been an insane learning curve for sure. Youtube has been my savior for actually seeing how people apply and what to click. It is worth it though. I went from looking like Fiona from Shrek into a goddess. What helps is to get naked and get your body right how you want it. Then, save that as an outfit. Then if you mess up and remove something, you can go back to basic. Save a couple outfits even if they arent your favorites, that way you can quick change too if you need to without the frustration. 

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@buttonsnrubbish You'll probably also find it handy to make a copy of your nude avatar, body feet, hands, head, and shape. Put these duplicate parts in an outfit. You can then use the outfit/parts to test things. It saves having to figure out how to undo something that screws things up.

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