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Cinos Field

Do you care about your render cost?

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39 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

They will. I mix and match bento/non bento all the time in the FS AO. 

Oh good. Thanks. I had to stop asking simple yes or no questions in the support group. Being told to read the blog (or wiki) when a simple yes or no was more than sufficient and takes a lot less time to type out. I don't need a lecture on a simple yes or no question. Sometimes I get the feeling a few of the older support members don't want me asking any questions since I won't rejoin the team. I've been getting the cold shoulder more and more lately.

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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7 minutes ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

Everyone can see you now.

Well, not everyone. I'm not logged in, and I don't even know where you are.  No way in the world I can see you.

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On 9/10/2019 at 8:03 PM, janetosilio said:

Piggy backing off of this: the default complexity is 250k for firestorm, not sure about LL default viewer or other tpv’s.

I’ve already stated I drop mine a little lower than 250k to around 180k.

So the question is: does anyone drop their max complexity below 100k? I’m kind of curious now.

I usually keep my max at 250k, until I see a jellydoll then I crank it up to "No Limit" for a moment because I am nosey and I want to see what they're wearing that's pushed them above the limit. 

My own ARC is usually in the 60k-80k range though it sometimes creeps up a little over 100k on occasion. I don;t worry about it too much but what I am always careful to do is remove all my huds before going to a busy place.

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On 9/10/2019 at 4:15 AM, Cinos Field said:

Hello, dear Second Life! I have a question: do you care about your render cost/complexity/polycount?

I care. I keep my appearance in the 50k to 120k range. I have my render limit at 150k. These days I see few JellyDolls. So, something is happening.

I do have hair that is 120k. Gorgeous. Love it. But, it stays in inventory.

The part I have a problem with is the script weight. The new Slink Original version Redux 4.0 reduces the script load by 2MB.

...and don't you just love it when you are hooked up with a hunk and viewer pops up saying Everyone can see you now... 😟

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13 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

It's the textures. I discovered while trying on an old system-based outfit that had only four prims - the usual loin-cloth pieces (to create a dress) and two armlets and the render cost was 650k. I couldn't figure it out, until I experimented and wore each piece one-at-a-time. Armlets: Simple hollow cylinder = 370k each. Made copy, set to "blank" texture, new score = 120 (or something). Wow. So, many times it is just bad texturing.

I'm pretty sure this one really is due to the sheer number of flexi pieces using partially alpha textures.  Headpiece alone is right at one million and a total of 233 prims.   There are 3 skirt pieces, with the first also hitting roughly one million in CI and having 224 prims.  The second piece is just shy of 300,000 CI &45 prims and the final one is 22 prims and almost 134,000 CI.  Here is the 'inspect' info on the 4 pieces:

image.thumb.png.2799f8eac7a6b0ec3a5e56b5d5cb8ad5.png

 

I might have to wear it out dancing once though, just to get some pictures and video of it moving.  

 

Edited by LittleMe Jewell

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12 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

1.  HUDs don't add a thing to avatar complexity.  Some claim that HUDs with a lot of scripts create lag, while others disagree.  Me, I simply take off un-needed HUDs because they take up too much screen space.  (And hey, HUD creators -- try to make them SMALL, OK?)

2.  I still think flexi hair is the bees' knees.  Mesh hair looks like I used a whole can of freeze spray on it.  I'll put up with some strands in my shoulders, in return for the pretty movement.

#1 -- OMG, yes.  Some HUDs are sooooo HUGE.  I especially love the creators that give me a small and large version, so I can choose.  By the same token, there are those that give a tiny HUD and no picture or notecard explaining, so I have to randomly click to figure it out.

#2 - Flexi hair definitely is still the bees knees, even though I seldom wear it anymore (due to the CI).  I sometimes relent if I go dancing because dancing requires the things attached to us to move.
 

 

 

5 hours ago, Matty Luminos said:

I usually keep my max at 250k, until I see a jellydoll then I crank it up to "No Limit" for a moment because I am nosey and I want to see what they're wearing that's pushed them above the limit. 

My own ARC is usually in the 60k-80k range though it sometimes creeps up a little over 100k on occasion. I don;t worry about it too much but what I am always careful to do is remove all my huds before going to a busy place.

I keep my setting at 100k or below most of the time.  On normal outings, my personal threshold is 300k for when I become nosey and raise it because I want to see what the heck they are wearing that is coming in so high.

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I'm finally in world right now and remembered to take a look. My current complexity is 44,489, which seems decent enough considering I have on several items of jewelry (and yes, clothing too lol).

I keep my max around 98,000 unless there's someone I particularly want to see who for some reason is higher than that. Usually that number is sufficient for the people I spend time with. 

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8 hours ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

[12:05] Second Life: Your avatar complexity is 19908.
Everyone can see you now.

in a inworld group this came up from a person on a really old spec computer. They said that they set their slider to min. 20,000 and only Always Render Friends. When they don't then they can't move

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With the ability to jellydoll me, I don't care what my render cost is. Although it's rarely above 100k and is usually in the 40-60k range. My jelly-threshold is 100k for strangers and (since most of my friends are bondage gear wearing AVs) I always render people on my friends list.

A note for those wearing bondage gear: Those items are usually render heavy due to various alpha states. There are plenty of non-scripted alternatives for the style. Wear the toys when you're actually wanting to play.

RE: Flexi/Mesh combo hair.. Argrace. Their newest I bought at the hairfair is mesh with flexi wisps.

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Honestly I don't worry too much about ARC, I care more about the amount of scripts I'm running.

I suppose I should pay more attention to complexity but my rationale to this point is that I don't get out and mingle much anymore. I'm usually just building or work on a new project alone with my draw distance set very low and graphics medium-low too. When I go to sales events I have preferences set to Show Friends Only and occasionally I wear my invisible outfit which is no attachments beyond a full body alpha (I usually take demos home to try on for fear of nip-slips or body parts poking through in public places anyway).

If people around me are jelly-dolls and I'm curious or we're conversing I crank up settings so I can see who I'm talking to, but generally speaking I don't bother too much. One friend of mine has an account a few years older than mine and he is just choc-full of a lot of very fine not-well-optimized mesh. My system staggers and FPS always flickers red when he's close and he knows but doesn't care. In his defense he likes to look good and that's his choice to make. I think a good percentage of people in SL don't care the repercussions of what they say, do or wear provided it serves their needs as they see fit, especially if they are paying money for it.

I'll check what my stats are tonight log in world and see if there's room for improvement there. There most likely is. 🤔

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"Do you care about your render cost?"

This is too broad a question without any context for me to give a simple answer.

Do I care enough to stay mostly between 40K-80K? Yes.
Do I care enough to ditch my onion-skin, alpha partitioned mesh body for a non-onion-skinned, wearable alpha only BoM mesh body?  No.
Do I care enough to desire hard limits so that I cannot sometimes wear a favourite item that may significantly increase my complexity whilst at home in the sky on an empty region? No.
Do I care enough to ditch all of my current mesh outfits and attachments so that once LL or region owners impose super low limits on us hoping that mesh makers suddenly start making more efficient mesh objects and that we buy them?  No.

I could find more specific answers with context but I'll stop right here.

I am actually quite glad that we have inaccurate complexity counts and I hope they stay that way because as soon as they become accurate, people are going to seek to impose hard limits whether that is LL or region owners in a misguided attempt to fix the grid, which may seem technically fixable but in actually I don't believe will do anything more than destroy the user-base we have.

Yes, I do know about Project ArcTan to the degree that I know roughly what it is about and that limits are part of what is being planned in some fashion but it doesn't mean I have to like it.  I also know that this opinion will upset super efficient mesh advocates.  That's another thing I don't care about.
 

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Oh, Since this is a render-cost thread (or whatever the hell it's called now, Complexity Score? Ugh) - I thought I would add this: I have a Merrow (mermaid) mesh avatar (full head and body) that fully dressed and decked out with every single option has a complexity of 6,435 <- NOT A TYPO. And the LOD is utterly amazing - Zero breakdown or deforming whatsoever, even from the other side of the sim.

MOAR creatorz like thiz, PLZ.

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I do care on most occassions. Sometimes not so much. Highest i've ever had was 150k or so, but I tend to hover somewhere between 30-70k on the regular depending on whether i'm in my human avatar or furry avatar. I have one avatar with complexity that is something between 5-10k, which I will often use if I have to attend an in-world classes.

I will turn my viewable complexity down to about 40k or so in events, but otherwise I leave it 150k-max.

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Do i care about rendering cost? I do, i try to and almost always do keep my personal complexity below 80k which is what i have set in my viewer. I have some things especially older hair or jewellery pieces i don't use anymore as they rack up 100k+ complexity on their own. If i'm going to an event or elsewhere that's very popular more often than not i'll set my viewer to show friends only over reducing viewer complexity to 20k

 

On 9/11/2019 at 3:15 PM, Lindal Kidd said:

1.  HUDs don't add a thing to avatar complexity.  Some claim that HUDs with a lot of scripts create lag, while others disagree.  Me, I simply take off un-needed HUDs because they take up too much screen space.  (And hey, HUD creators -- try to make them SMALL, OK?)

If anything bigger is better at least with customization HUDs some creators make them so small you can't make out the colour/customization options 

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7 minutes ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

If anything bigger is better at least with customization HUDs some creators make them so small you can't make out the colour/customization options 

Oh, I have to disagree on this one, Claire!  I have, as one example, a manicure HUD for my SLink nails, from AlaskaMetro.  The thing is a huge wheel, with a different nail color on each spoke.  It's beautiful, but it takes up half my screen!  Other HUD makers fail to put a "minimize" button on their HUD, or they double the screen space with a huge company logo.  Sure, the buttons/pictures should be big enough to see, but get rid of all the other space-consuming garbage!

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Hmm, I came across this in an unrelated search, well not totally unrelated, I was looking for guides on optimizing mesh creations. I don't really personally stop to think about it a lot, I see the whole complexity info pop up every time I add or remove a piece of clothing or accessory to and from my avatar, it's usually around the 85k mark though. I've not met anyone who is purple jelly yet, so I guess I've been lucky, but then I have a pretty decent rig and I assume that contributes to how much the complexity of others matter.

I guess one advantage of being a male avatar, is that you don't necessarily need to wear hair. That said, there could be some bald female avatars out there, I've not come across any though.

If 100k is the general advice, I don't anticipate any problems. I'm actually more mindful of my avatar's script count, I have one hud that in the latest version uses a crazy amount of scripts 118 to be exact and memory of 7168kb , suffice to say I only put that one on my avatar when I'm on my own land and even then only if there aren't people in the adjacent parcels. The previous version only had 24 scripts and 384k of memory, go figure. Sadly in the latest version, the creator went crazy with bells and whistles, only one of which I really like or want and since the item is no modify, I can't even remove the scripts I don't need.

Anyway I digress, no I can't say I really think about it, but I don't seem to be doing too badly anyway.

Edited by Frank Ziplon

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Yes and no but mostly no because I render everything just fine where I pay and SET HOME TO HERE just fine that I don't think complexity has anything to do with lag.

I think it is the setting home to here that somehows gives you freedom to rez and roam without lag...as least it does me.

When I rent, or have my own items rezzed and/or have HOME SET TO HERE, I have no lag.

Where I DO NOT rent or have items rezzed or have HOME SET TO HERE, I have lag.

Either, it's the setting HOME TO HERE that puts your name on the land thingie... like it gives you partial rights or something IS what gets rid of lag.  

It's like giving you "clearance" to the land when you SET HOME TO HERE.  Otherwise, in SL, where ever we go we are all walking potential "eject-ables" and I think being a potential eject-able is what causes lag and that is a drag. 

A few bad apples did spoil a lot in SL.     

 

Edited by FairreLilette

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45 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

When I rent, or have my own items rezzed and/or have HOME SET TO HERE, I have no lag.

Where I DO NOT rent or have items rezzed or have HOME SET TO HERE, I have lag.

 

Wow that's interesting, though I think possibly coincidental, rather than anything to do with set home to here. So far as I am aware setting home doesn't offer any special privileges in terms of lag, but hey who knows, LL may well favour people who spend on homes.

I personally seldom experience lag anywhere, the vast majority of lag is on the client side, despite what some will argue, I use to get a lot of lag in the old days when I only had a basic computer with on-board graphics and as I like to put it, you can't expect a Ferrari experience driving a Ford.

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On 9/10/2019 at 12:44 PM, janetosilio said:

Actually, I think it depends on your own graphic settings. Since I set my graphics to “not quite ultra with a couple of extras.” Mine defaults to a max of 250k. It probably drops lower than 250k if your graphic settings are lower. I haven’t messed around with lower settings.

 So I’m wondering. If people are on lower settings and the default max is lower, do they then lower it below 100k which I’m assuming would be the default if they have all of the graphics set to low, alm turned off etc.

That's where I keep my setting, defaults to 350. I'm pretty sure the default is fixed code and doesn't get changed the way you are suggesting. That would be the server load from hell and happy crashing! all the time.

Looking right at it in my quick prefs it is maxed out at 350,000.

Let's ask @Whirly Fizzle though. Where you at Whirlz?

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7 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

That's where I keep my setting, defaults to 350. I'm pretty sure the default is fixed code and doesn't get changed the way you are suggesting. That would be the server load from hell and happy crashing! all the time.

Looking right at it in my quick prefs it is maxed out at 350,000.

Let's ask @Whirly Fizzle though. Where you at Whirlz?

If I change my graphics setting to Low, the Max Complexity drops to 35,000.  As I work my way up, it changes to 100,000 (low-mid); 200,000 (mid); 250,000 (mid-high); 300,000 (high); 350,000 (high-ultra and ultra);  I have no clue if any of those step values are related to what my card can handle or if they are hard-coded steps.

ETA:  That is on the Firestorm viewer.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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16 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

If I change my graphics setting to Low, the Max Complexity drops to 35,000.  As I work my way up, it changes to 100,000 (low-mid); 200,000 (mid); 250,000 (mid-high); 300,000 (high); 350,000 (high-ultra and ultra);  I have no clue if any of those step values are related to what my card can handle or if they are hard-coded steps.

ETA:  That is on the Firestorm viewer.

Yeah I was thinking that is the way it is set up but the way Janet worded her post made me think she had something else in mind. They are hard coded steps, that is for sure. set according to where you put the performance slider. So I figure Whirlz, the Q & A Queen of FS, knowz so I paged her. And if she doesn't I'ma kick her butt cuz I know she should after having worked with her for so long...

*sticks tongue out at Whirlz then dives back under her rock*

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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42 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Looking right at it in my quick prefs it is maxed out at 350,000

Why didn't I look there, that explains why I see no Jellies, mine is set to no limit. Can't remember setting it to that, but I guess I did at some point.

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3 minutes ago, Frank Ziplon said:

Why didn't I look there, that explains why I see no Jellies, mine is set to no limit. Can't remember setting it to that, but I guess I did at some point.

I wouldn't advise leaving it there.  That leaves you open to graphic crashers.

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2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I wouldn't advise leaving it there.  That leaves you open to graphic crashers.

Very true, have dropped it to 350k, I have a reasonable expectation that my graphics card can handle that, at least.

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