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The longer I read this thread and its emotional intensiveness on the side of the OP, the more I come to believe said "friend" and our OP are the same person. ūü§ź

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I'm really struggling to see the offense here. Someone came to check out the work your friend was doing in a public area. In the process, friend got bumped. 

Big whoop. In the grand scheme of offensive things that happen in SL, this would rate pretty low on the scale.

If the person had continued to harass the friend, continue pushing them around, refuse to leave the house (Was it a house? I can't remember 3 pages back. I'm old) that'd be a different story, but it doesn't seem like the friend was bothered or approached by this person at all once he/she came back from being AFK.

Coming back from being AFK for a few to find that my avatar had been bumped into a corner would make me laugh. That's someone being goofy, not griefing. 

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1 hour ago, Lindal Kidd said:

I agree with most of the responses here that the OP, and his/her friend, are overreacting.  Cinos Field's advice to use a sky platform, and to sit your avatar on something any time you're in a sandbox, is very good.

Bumping an AFK avatar is pretty small potatoes.  At The Forum Cartel Hangout, and sometimes at Caledon Oxbridge University, we have been known to decorate AFK avatars with funny objects, take embarrassing photos of them, and then send the photos to the AFK avatars, as well as posting them on the clubhouse bulletin board.

I don't disagree with you. It's the sort of thing us oldbies have done for more than a decade with most "victims" taking it as the humor it was meant. Yet, I can't help but think of times when it might not be funny. Depending on the situation, practical jokes/pranks may not be the thing to do. Of course, the pranksters don't have a way of knowing (unless made aware beforehand) what the situation is so can't always know in advance the timing is bad. It's why I don't ever push someone I don't know or have never talked to/met.

Last person I did it to had already pushed their main (with an alt) into the water so I just pushed him a bit further until he was under a bridge. You know, so in case of a lightning storm he wouldn't get hit by a bolt... yeah, that's the ticket... shiftyeyes.gif.9022ec4d515235237945d93d1d477561.gif 

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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50 minutes ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Unless you have an even more brilliant solution.

You're the one who thinks their solution is brilliant. In fact, apparently it's so brilliant that if the OP doesn't accept it you've decided they must not really want a solution.  That's what you told them.  

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35 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I'm really struggling to see the offense here. Someone came to check out the work your friend was doing in a public area. In the process, friend got bumped. 

Big whoop. In the grand scheme of offensive things that happen in SL, this would rate pretty low on the scale.

If the person had continued to harass the friend, continue pushing them around, refuse to leave the house (Was it a house? I can't remember 3 pages back. I'm old) that'd be a different story, but it doesn't seem like the friend was bothered or approached by this person at all once he/she came back from being AFK.

Coming back from being AFK for a few to find that my avatar had been bumped into a corner would make me laugh. That's someone being goofy, not griefing. 

100% agree. I came back from AFK one time not that long ago to find a stranger sitting in my (adult) chair with me, bouncing me around in a naughty animation. I simply ejected him and went on with my life. I actually laugh when I remember it, because it was so random. 

And before any white nights chime in with "but they couldn't eject from a sandbox", that is not my point. The point is, no one was actually harmed in either scenario, particularly by a little bump (or hump, for that matter!). For all we know, the sandbox incident was an accident. Lag happens. Cats jump on keyboards. Drinks get spilled. *shrugs*

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I remember one time,I use to own a sim that was connected to a neighborhood of sims..The person that owned the community and the sim that had the club in it was a friend of mine..

I was at the club one night and using this one tool that would put funny tags on peoples heads..I would only put them there if they asked me to..

Aaaaaaanyways,I was looking through the menu  of this tool,which I can't remember the name of ,but it had lots of goodies..

I was looking though the menu and lagged out and set off a nuke in the club and sent everyone someplace else..I think maybe to their house or something..

Wanna talk about feeling terrible..it was only me and the staff and my friend left in the club.. Before they could figure out what happened I was already screaming I'm sorry I lagged out and must have clicked something..

There was a big Mushroom cloud and everything..

We looked at my list of who got hit and teleported everyone back,then I went to my sim feeling terrible..I swear everyone there IM'd me to come back..

I was feeling so not worthy,but they talked me into it..

The one thing in that tool I never wanted to set off outside of my sim and I blew the damn club up with it..

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10 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

I've had that happen to me, and I checked the person's profile.  It said that the person I was seeing was developmentally delayed and that his mother had made the account for him. Apparently he likes to look at things but isn't comfortable communicating. It might be the same person your friend encountered.

I've encountered that person as well. He hangs out at the "Premium" sandboxes and is a griefer, plain and simple. His profile is BS, imho. I love how it says he has a problem with boundaries, like you're meant to excuse his constant harassment. Not buying it.

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18 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

The one thing in that tool I never wanted to set off outside of my sim and I blew the damn club up with it..

Okay, but that's actually hilarious! If there was anyone who didn't laugh about that, then they need a new sense of humor!¬†ūüėú

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32 minutes ago, Mahala Roviana said:

I've encountered that person as well. He hangs out at the "Premium" sandboxes and is a griefer, plain and simple. His profile is BS, imho. I love how it says he has a problem with boundaries, like you're meant to excuse his constant harassment. Not buying it.

I've met him too. He tped in to my old LL house 3 times one night. He just stood there for ages, not speaking and refused to leave when I asked so I put him on my ban list. I don't buy the crap in his profile either.

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59 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Okay, but that's actually hilarious! If there was anyone who didn't laugh about that, then they need a new sense of humor!¬†ūüėú

Once people knew what happened people thought it was funny..but at first a lot didn't know what happened hehehehe

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1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

Okay, but that's actually hilarious! If there was anyone who didn't laugh about that, then they need a new sense of humor!¬†ūüėú

Yeah, I actually wish I'd been there! Sounds fun!

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2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I remember one time,I use to own a sim that was connected to a neighborhood of sims..The person that owned the community and the sim that had the club in it was a friend of mine..

I was at the club one night and using this one tool that would put funny tags on peoples heads..I would only put them there if they asked me to..

Aaaaaaanyways,I was looking through the menu  of this tool,which I can't remember the name of ,but it had lots of goodies..

I was looking though the menu and lagged out and set off a nuke in the club and sent everyone someplace else..I think maybe to their house or something..

Wanna talk about feeling terrible..it was only me and the staff and my friend left in the club.. Before they could figure out what happened I was already screaming I'm sorry I lagged out and must have clicked something..

There was a big Mushroom cloud and everything..

We looked at my list of who got hit and teleported everyone back,then I went to my sim feeling terrible..I swear everyone there IM'd me to come back..

I was feeling so not worthy,but they talked me into it..

The one thing in that tool I never wanted to set off outside of my sim and I blew the damn club up with it..

I would have come back to the club, brought all my friends and bought a round.

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I've been here 12 years, I stopped letting this get to me, because unless you own the land you are building it on,  you kinda have to just go with what the others are doing in the sandbox, you will always get people looking about, even interacting with it.  if he did not want it bothered,  easier to set it at 3500m or so, typically keeps people out. so one can work in peace.

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adding to the what to do while building in a public space with people who sit on our stuff and/or interact with our script while we are writing it

i put protectives in my dev scripts when I am in this situation:

CHANGED_LINK llUnsit().  http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlUnSit

and enable llDetectedKey(n) == llGetOwner() in Touch, Collision, etc events

removing these protectives as appropriate in the post-dev/pre-release coding phase


using a Movelock or Sit our avatar is the other main protective in addition to building up in the sky

when people can't interact easily with our builds, and we ignore their efforts to get in our face, then they go away

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This reminds me of the time I was in my bedroom on the computer and building a true size replica of my bedroom in SL. My avatar was on the ground of a public sandbox and was inside the bedroom I was building. A gentleman walks by and says, "You should go outside and play in the sun. Staying inside playing Second Life is unhealthy."  It made me laugh because I had to be inside while I was measuring the walls in order to build the replica bedroom.

If you don't want interaction with residents just make a sky platform. 

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11 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

certainly didn't take long for the forum White Knight to show up and pretend to give two tin craps ....

How perfect ‚Äútwo tin craps‚ÄĚ is!

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Super long :D Took me forever, apologies

TLDR; Don't let the curiosity of others cloud your judgment of everyone, or your judgment of where you are. Sometimes curiosity really is just curiosity, not griefing, and we have to remember that in places where such rules supreme. 

 

I build in sandboxes exclusively, they're my favorite place to build, and always have been, even when I had a home. Every single thing I have ever created in sl, began in a sandbox, and all of them public ones, never premium. I have run into griefers in sandboxes, lots of them. I have been frustrated by them, I have been angered, I've been saddened, I've had some pretty crappy things done, I've had products broken, I've met some really horrendous people.......but you know the take away from my whole experience with sandboxes has been my entire slife?  The good I've gotten from building in sandboxes far surpasses ANY bad. (and if you knew my struggles, you'd understand just how bad the bad really has been at times). I have had things that took me WEEKS to build/create get seemingly destroyed in a matter of seconds (relative tot the context of the event/creation, of course). The good still, by far, outweighs the bad. 

I have met amazing people. I have had my builds, my creations perused by countless amazing people (how they're each amazing, I don't know, but I imagine they all are, so I shall call them that). I have had people strike up convos, people watch me build for hours never saying a thing, people playing in/on/with my builds while I'm working, people doing so while I'm afk....and everything in between. I've also experienced watching others build, interact, enjoy themselves. I have never once minded any of those people, and few times have I truly minded griefers (after initial, or eventual in some cases, minor irritation), save those who are truly destructive, no one can really do a whole lot of harm just being annoying, lol.

I honestly, and I am not trying to judge by saying this, please don't assume I am, cannot imagine myself, or really anyone I do know, being upset by an event like this *because it's how things are in sl, not because we've simply accepted something negative as a natural occurrence, but because most of the time it is EXTREMELY innocuous. Public sandboxes are public for a reason, made popular by the desire to watch others create and be able to create ourselves. Curiosity rules all in sandboxes, it's how it has always been and how it always will be. In fact,  I might actually, and have, invite the person to come back and take a look at the build, maybe she was interested, maybe not, but it never hurts to ask. Maybe she was just a griefer, but the automatic assumption that the person lacks "common decency" is a really bad path to head out on, imo. Mostly because if you run into it again, you're more likely to get even more angry and it might have a negative effect on your slexperiences-and we need more creative people tnot less (coincidentally, this is why I welcome curiosity when I build, because we NEED more, not less) . Context matters, a lot, and the idea of virtual "privacy" in a public virtual sandbox place being compared to rl privacy in your own home doesn't seem all that well thought out. I know where the idea and desire comes from (even folks that don't agree understand that) but it's misguided at best.

I say this as someone who was just recently helping someone else I don't even know build in a sandbox because they were curiously playing with everything I was working on while I was working on it lol. I can't build much anymore and it sucks, a lot, but I can pass stuff on to others and I like that. Even when I went afk to feed my army of animals, he was still messing around with stuff. He hadn't said a single word to me, so after about 40 mins I asked if he wanted to know how to build it (he was playing with one thing specifically a lot, lo). I can usually only do this in sandboxes though, because anywhere else, it's not welcome. In sandboxes, true griefers aside, most folks are there to create or learn to create. Ya can't do that when everyone says "hands and eyes off". :D

 

 

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15 hours ago, Kiera Clutterbuck said:

You're the one who thinks their solution is brilliant. In fact, apparently it's so brilliant that if the OP doesn't accept it you've decided they must not really want a solution.  That's what you told them. 

No, that's not what I was thinking.

What I was really thinking was this: "What about this non-problem in this futite thread can we do other than poke some fun?" Hence the bold and unsubstantiated  'I know what you are thinking' statement and the animation. Some people understand the sarcasm behind it. Others don't. Don't worry about it.

Edited by Arduenn Schwartzman
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5 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

How perfect ‚Äútwo tin craps‚ÄĚ is!

I like Charlie Brooker's (all hail) "sun blushed s***."

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I'm not sure if a sandbox is the best place for an autistic person...that environment is difficult enough to navigate for those without social difficulties..

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17 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I came back from AFK one time not that long ago to find a stranger sitting in my (adult) chair with me, bouncing me around in a naughty animation. I simply ejected him and went on with my life. I actually laugh when I remember it, because it was so random. 

That would make me absolutely livid, and it's why I only ever AFK on items that have a single person sit. Not even a cuddle animation, let alone an adult one. I don't even want to think how my partner of 12 years would feel if he happened to log on while I was AFK and some idiot had decided to do that.

Edited by Skell Dagger
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1 hour ago, Skell Dagger said:

That would make me absolutely livid, and it's why I only ever AFK on items that have a single person sit. Not even a cuddle animation, let alone an adult one. I don't even want to think how my partner of 12 years would feel if he happened to log on while I was AFK and some idiot had decided to do that.

I told my partner about it when he logged on, so he IMd the guy and gave him a good old Yorkshire cussing out, and we had a big laugh together about that.

If he'd logged on and seen it, it would have gone pretty much the same way, except that my partner might have used a magic spell HUD on the guy and orbited him into deep space with his hair on fire. In any event, he would not have been worried or upset with me because he knows better. 

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4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm not sure if a sandbox is the best place for an autistic person...that environment is difficult enough to navigate for those without social difficulties..

I know. SL as a whole probably isn't the best place for him considering that everybody you would ever be talking to is a real person, not an NPC. It's also one of the most freeform place to create and build next to garry's mod and being the creative sort I doubt I could convince him to leave. I've known him since elementary and he always leaves the socializing up to me or one of our other friends while he works on the creative or technical side. Another friend in our group that has some experience in marketing sells the things he makes for him.

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21 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

It beats waving a magic wand and make all people no longer push you away while afk. Unless you have an even more brilliant solution.

[Update] I did the test. And I must admit, I almost peed my pants, having to perform the laborious task of sitting my avatar down first.

https://i.gyazo.com/4497ea7f02d3fefdf89113ada592c03c.mp4

Hey!  You look lots cuter in world than your forum badge!

...makes plans to stalk you and decorate your cute AFK avatar and take embarrassing photos.

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This is a very judgy thread! The OP is judging those who apparently wandered through their build; posters are responding by judging the OP, and yet other posters are judging the posters who are judging . . . etc.

The problem with judging people in this sort of context is that the judgement assumes a commonly-held and accepted set of criteria and standards that we can all apply together. And that, I want to argue, doesn't exist in this context. Because however confident I am that my way of thinking about things like privacy, property rights, and the meaning of actions in a virtual world, is the logical way to approach these, I can be quite certain that there are legions who see these things differently.

So, again, there are no common standards to judge, no consensus about what constitutes the proper way to think about virtual interactions (as opposed to RL, where these things are better established and more broadly accepted). And, I have no way of really influencing those who choose to think about these things differently. I can't make them read my actions as I may have intended them.

So, a simple example that provides a parallel if not an exact same case: a number of months ago, I was taking a picture of myself on a beach wearing a bikini (an applier bathing suit) and a "wet" (and hence largely translucent) tee shirt. As I was preparing the pic, I was chatting with a male friend who suggested he join me. I was, to my mind anyway, innocuously dressed, so I TPed him in and we continued our conversation while I set up my pic. About 30 minutes into our conversation, it suddenly became evident, from things my friend was saying, that he could not see, in his viewer, my bikini. Clearly, there was some kind of alpha glitchy thing happening (all hail Bakes on Mesh!). So far as he was aware, I was naked under a translucent tee shirt while I spoke to him. AND, he had assumed that this was deliberate on my part: that I was being consciously "sexually provocative" and flirty. I was most definitely not.

Now, the alpha glitch thing that hid my bikini from him is, in a sense, beside the point: I, personally, couldn't care less if he could see my boobs and other bits. (In fact, my boobs are very publicly on display in at least one pic in my Flickr feed.) What I did care about was how he read it, and his understanding that I was deliberately displaying myself with provocative intent: the problem wasn't a wardrobe malfunction so much as it was the disconnect between his understanding of what my virtual nudity meant, and mine.

Now, I suppose I could have insisted that "it's all just pixels anyway," and that he was being silly to read my nudity as provocative. But it would be rather silly and pointless of me to pretend that residents do not dress "provocatively" and with sexual meaning in SL, wouldn't it? My understanding of what my nudity meant was just that: my understanding. It is unenforceable.

So, to extend this principle to things like wandering through someone else's build or house. I couldn't, myself, care less if someone "intrudes" on my own space in SL (so long as they are not being deliberately obnoxious). I don't use security orbs or ban lines at all: anyone can walk into my house anytime. But that doesn't mean that I can therefore apply my standards about civil behaviour to others. Personally, I think it's a little silly to worry about what people get up to in my house when I'm not there: it's not as though I'll be left with soiled sheets to wash. BUT I'm not going to try to impose my view on others: it is their right to be upset about such things.

So . . . in general, when I am wandering around, I take care not to intrude on other's property. I don't cam into their houses, and I certainly don't try to enter areas that are clearly not public. Not because I think it's rational to worry about such "invasions of privacy," but because others might.

So, it's not about abiding by a common standard of "rules." It's about simple civility, which in this case should mean not trying to impose one's own world view and code of conduct on others. This cuts all sorts of ways: I suspect that whoever wandered through the sandbox build mentioned in the OP would never have, themselves, conceived of this as a violation of privacy. And, objectively speaking, they are not wrong, because there is no commonly accepted definition of that. But they should have been more conscious of the fact that others might not feel that way, and so have been more considerate.

And if you can't manage being considerate of the concerns and views of others, then . . . well, I'm going to judge you. ūüôā

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
Typo and missing words!
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