With BOM what will Happen to our OUTFITS

[FairreLilette]

7 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

It's totally possible, if the item in question is Omega compatible. (Sorry Legacy body folks. We tried to warn you.)

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Bake-on-Mesh-skin-applier-Omega/14391590

What about other avatars (non-human) that are not dependent on Omega to dress or change eyes...how will BAKES on Mesh effect these?   I think most of the non-human avatars must be currently working like the Classic.  So, how will BOM effect these? Oh, just to clarify...some non-human avatars have wardrobes made of mesh clothing and eyes mostly.

Edited September 9, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Alyona Su]

27 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I don't see this as a simplification.

Simplification of the mesh bodies and heads, system resources used (as it is an adaptation of an existing technology baked in from the very beginning of the grid.) I apologize if my meaning was not made clear.

[Gabriele Graves]

2 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Simplification of the mesh bodies and heads, system resources used (as it is an adaptation of an existing technology baked in from the very beginning of the grid.) I apologize if my meaning was not made clear.

No need to apologise.  Thank you for clarifying.

[Alyona Su]

24 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

No need to apologise.  Thank you for clarifying.

Yes sure, walls-o-text can get confusing LOL. I look forward to when BoM becomes the standard way of doing things. I see it as a three phase process (creating the feature notwithstanding):

1. All viewers support BoM so there are no outliers to ask "WTF is rong with UR txtrs!?
2. A good quantity, if not majority of mesh objects that need to support it do support it.
3. Adoption en masse by the population as a whole and it becomes a standard expectation to be supported.

I figure at least another few weeks for "phase one" to be completed. Perhaps another few months for phase two and ongoing from there, a "good quantity" meaning truckloads that support (at least) the top four or five mesh bodies and heads. Phase 3 will take a lot longer because it will be a very costly transition for all of those whose accounts were created after the Mesh Bodies became a real thing.

Those of us who were here before that time, at least, have a leg-up on system clothing and skins and tattoos, so long as they weren't discarded when Mesh bodies became a thing. Because of this, I am thinking at least a year before phase three can be considered a success. A large part of the cost also will have to do with who upgrades what (creators.) I have the best skin I have ever had in 13 years - it is appliers-only. Unless that skin creator "upgrades" to System Skins (which is actually pretty simple and takes seconds,) I will not be jumping onto the BoM cart any time soon unless another skin wows me the way this one does. I know a lot people people will feel the same way.

Early-adopters are early adopters, and I consider myself one of those as long as it's not too painful. Though I believe this transition will be painful on a scale that coincides with how long you've been here, the longer you've been here, the more painful it is with a large dip once you hit the "before mesh" timeframe.

This is more or less my purview on the BoM subject. I want it NAO! I really do. The painful thing for me is waiting for the time it becomes more realistic to use it.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Alyona Su

[Blush Bravin]

The only thing that is holding me back is having a BoM compliant Firestorm. I already see the initial steps for becoming compliant from my preferred mesh body parts as well and my favorite skinners have begun to produce BoM skins. Also, I'm not waiting on FS so that others can see my body how I see it. Frankly, I don't care. I'm waiting because it is my preferred viewer and I'm much more comfortable using that viewer.

[Nalates Urriah]

10 hours ago, Matty Luminos said:

I have just realised that BOM will never, ever work for my body, and I'll be stuck with pre-BOM mesh even when it's fully discontinued.

Because a classic alpha layer cannot make just one arm disappear. But a mesh body hud can.

😭

You still have some to learn.

But, you are basically correct. BoM does break the asymmetry thing. But, there is a provision in BoM for designers to make bodies that have separate textures for the left arm and leg. (I don't have a good simple explanation for the leg...). 

Also, the alpha masking layers can make an arm or leg disappear almost as easily as they hide a tummy, butt, or breasts that poke through clothes. The complication will be in how the designer uses the BoM ability to use asymmetry.

[Maitimo]

2 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

You still have some to learn.

But, you are basically correct. BoM does break the asymmetry thing. But, there is a provision in BoM for designers to make bodies that have separate textures for the left arm and leg. (I don't have a good simple explanation for the leg...). 

Also, the alpha masking layers can make an arm or leg disappear almost as easily as they hide a tummy, butt, or breasts that poke through clothes. The complication will be in how the designer uses the BoM ability to use asymmetry.

Is that down to the designer of the body or the designer of the system alpha layer?

[Nalates Urriah]

5 hours ago, Matty Luminos said:

Is that down to the designer of the body or the designer of the system alpha layer?

It starts with the body designer. They have to make use of the left-arm body part as the texture for the left arm. So, it is their UVMap design and assignment of prim-face to the left arm polygons.

Clothes designers have to make alpha masks that conform to the UVMap used by the designer.

BoM just composites textures. I doesn't get a copy of the UVMap.

[LittleMe Jewell]

13 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

Never liked appliers to begin with so I'm not going to miss them one bit. I shop enough that I don't use 95% of what I buy past the initial wearing of the item anyway. I'll gladly give up all my appliers to switch to Bakes. If people get realistic they will realize they probably don't really wear all those outfits they saved or most of the junk they have boxed up to decrease their inventories. We are all just pack rats who don't use most of the stuff we have shoved into our inventories. Bakes will just give me another reason to clear out my inventory the same way rigged mesh made me glad to delete all that standard size mesh clothing.

99% of the time, I actually trash clothing after I have worn it once.  Other than a few specialty 'outfits', my outfits consist of "Just the Basics (body,skin,etc)" and "Current Daily".  Every time I change outfits, 'Current Daily" gets updated and the old outfit and underlying clothing get deleted.  I still buy it far faster than I wear it, so my inventory keeps increasing.

[FairreLilette]

12 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

99% of the time, I actually trash clothing after I have worn it once.  Other than a few specialty 'outfits', my outfits consist of "Just the Basics (body,skin,etc)" and "Current Daily".  Every time I change outfits, 'Current Daily" gets updated and the old outfit and underlying clothing get deleted.  I still buy it far faster than I wear it, so my inventory keeps increasing.

Wow!  0.0  

I still wear some of my Classic Clothes on my mesh body.  XS through S work for skirts and over-sized sweatshirts for Classic fit on my mesh body by alpha out the chest area.  

I'm glad I kept all my Classic things because I want to wear those with BOM (especially Fairy stuff)

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

9 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Wow!  0.0  

I still wear some of my Classic Clothes on my mesh body.  XS through S work for skirts and over-sized sweatshirts for Classic fit on my mesh body by alpha out the chest area.  

I'm glad I kept all my Classic things because I want to wear those with BOM (especially Fairy stuff)

 

Not to be too pedantic here, but the XS-XL sized clothing is not really "Classic" clothing.  It is the first phase of mesh clothing before there were mesh bodies.  You can wear it on mesh bodies because it is an object and thus an attachment.  True "Classic" clothing that BoM is going to allow us to use is the older stuff that is actually System Layers.  You can't wear any of the System layers (true 'Classic' stuff) on mesh bodies without the BoM piece.

Edited September 10, 2019 by LittleMe Jewell

[EnCore Mayne]

bit late on this topic, m'excuse. i've just got myself the new Firestorm BoM viewer to see what all the fuss about BoM is. it's not very complicated just revolutionary and devistating should you ever think your life will be the same. hahahaha. someone forgot to tell me that part in all my searches in the sorrowful lack of communcation on the matter.

here's what i learned: (please correct me if i'm wrong)

1. running a BoM viewer will destroy _everything_ that came before
2. aside from uninstalling and reverting to an earlier "BeFore BoM"™ version you will not be ready to just jump in and carry on
3. should you choose to endure the BoM changes awaiting the ignorant and uninformed, your adventure to return to a happy and blissful second life experience will become extraordinarily important and significantly trying on your time.
4. just because EVERY outfit (post Mesh) you've EVER saved now shows your head, eyes, and body skins as a solid red doesn't mean you'll never get that look back. it's not time to panic just yet. but panic to be sure is indeed part of the process.
5. removing your head, eyes, and body alpha layer WILL solve the completely solid red appearance revealing whatever system layers you never paid any attention to when Mesh arrived cause they were alpha'd out. boyoboyo are you gonna be surprised what's been under your Mesh all this time!
6. now, somehow (solely and graciously by the will of whatever God you pray to) you will need to put those beautiful and mesh specific textures into your modifiable head, top, and bottom system skin. having access to full perm or self created textures makes this transformation a snap. you will the only have to edit EVERY outfit you have EVER created (post Mesh) to ensure the skins you had on your Mesh can be found and reconstructed onto a system skin. make sure you delete the head, eyes, and body alphas of EVERY outfit and yer laughing. hahahaha. i'm lucky i only have an infinite amount of time and patience to edit the small number of outfits i had thought would have been preserved even with a REVOLUTIONARY DISRUPTIVE change some genius came up with.
7. having only "applied" textures would be another manner i've not had to suffer myself so the vast majority of cases out there will have to rely on helpful strangers and long suffering friends who may be going through the same upsetting trials. good luck. i'll be praying for you. 
8. oh, i forgot, somewhere in the above sequence (maybe after 3), your head and body designers (maitreya and catwa for me) may have provided a one-time BoM HUD thingy to magically turn your skin textures into a Bloody Red Projection onto their Mesh.

[Nalates Urriah]

1- Not true. Everything that came before still works.

2 - If you install a BoM viewer and use no BoM you won't notice any difference.

3 - I really have no idea what you are thinking...

4 - You only see the red, yellow, blue colors if you or someone around you wears BoM stuff without you using a BoM viewer. Update and the colors go away.

5 - ?

6 - There is no need to edit existing outfits, pre-mesh, mesh, or post BoM.

7 - ?

8 - The BoM appliers for heads are for those that want to use BoM with a non-BoM head. Presumably those people will be using a BoM viewer and therefore will not see red.

This is really simple. Update to a BoM viewer so you can see those using BoM bodies correctly. There is nothing else you need to do.

[Rhonda Huntress]

1 hour ago, EnCore Mayne said:

4. just because EVERY outfit (post Mesh) you've EVER saved now shows your head, eyes, and body skins as a solid red doesn't mean you'll never get that look back. it's not time to panic just yet. but panic to be sure is indeed part of the process.

I have one outfit that is affected like that.  My Base.  That base has all the parts that I wear with everything.  Skin, shape, eyes, hair base, AO, mesh body, mesh head, physics and all that jazz.  All other outfits are just clothes and hair.  I wear/replace the base outfit and then Add any othere outfit I want to wear.  That way I can also just Remove that one outfit and Add another at any time.  Fast and easy.  If I want to go BoM i can either edit that one base or, more likely, create a BoM base outfit.  All of my outfits will still work 100%.  Even those with appliers.  You see, BoM is in addition to what we have become used to.  It doesn't really replace anything.

All in all I think my experience has been profoundly different than yours.  I played with BoM for a couple of days after it was turned on and made my choice to carry on without it for now.  I still use a BoM enabled viewer and have been since Catznip's beta was available.  That way I can see those people that do chose to wear BoM applied skins.

The more things change the more they stay the same.  That's about it.

[Rhonda Huntress]

28 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

This is really simple. Update to a BoM viewer so you can see those using BoM bodies correctly. There is nothing else you need to do.

I believe she is upset with the full alpha turning everything red.  It sounds to me like she is frustrated by this now.

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, EnCore Mayne said:

here's what i learned: (please correct me if i'm wrong)

You're wrong.

The only way anything like you're describing will happen is if you consciously and actively change your body/head to use BOM.

[EnCore Mayne]

using a non-BoM Firestorm viewer, wearing an outfit made prior to any BoM fiddling this is what appears:

the only thing that i've done (to cause this condition) was to use both Catwa and Maitreya's BoM "relay" HUDs. that was using the new BoM FireStorm viewer the other day. having attached those HUDs once, does that mean i'll never be able to use a non-BoM viewer? will i never be able to see any of my old outfits without that "BAKED" texture? i'll upload some shots from FireStorm's BoM viewer if anyone's interested in helping. i know, it's gotta be something i've done wrong. perhaps in an earlier life.

 

[EnCore Mayne]

viewing a nonBoM outfit from FireStorm's BoM viewer:

removing head, eyes, body alphas in FireStorm's BoM viewer:

note the unmatched preMesh system skin. 

how a non-BoM viewer sees me:
(now wearing head/body matched system skin)
(different old outfit, alphas removed, appearing okay in BoM viewer)

[Theresa Tennyson]

 

13 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

You're wrong.

The only way anything like you're describing will happen is if you consciously and actively change your body/head to use BOM.

 

6 hours ago, EnCore Mayne said:

 

the only thing that i've done (to cause this condition) was to use both Catwa and Maitreya's BoM "relay" HUDs. that was using the new BoM FireStorm viewer the other day. having attached those HUDs once, does that mean i'll never be able to use a non-BoM viewer? will i never be able to see any of my old outfits without that "BAKED" texture? i'll upload some shots from FireStorm's BoM viewer if anyone's interested in helping. i know, it's gotta be something i've done wrong. perhaps in an earlier life.

 

In other words, you actively and consciously (well, semi-consiously) changed your head and body to use BOM by using the HUD's. All you actually did is apply a texture to your head and body, just like with any applier. To undo it, simply re-apply the textures you used before.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Theresa Tennyson

[Theresa Tennyson]

7 hours ago, EnCore Mayne said:

viewing a nonBoM outfit from FireStorm's BoM viewer:

removing head, eyes, body alphas in FireStorm's BoM viewer:

note the unmatched preMesh system skin. 

 

LAQ skins have nowhere near that level of mismatch. Look in the picture where you're all red. See how your body is a darker red than your head? That says to me that you tinted your body. When you see your system skin on your body and head the skin will look darker because of the tint on the body.

[Aemeth Lysette]

On 9/3/2019 at 12:18 PM, FairreLilette said:

Ok, I am a little confused because I have read very little.

Sometimes reading is the only way to know about something. Try to read more.

[Vanity Fair]

Here's my take on the new Bakes on Feature support in Firestorm:

https://ryanschultz.com/2019/10/02/the-firestorm-second-life-viewer-now-supports-bakes-on-mesh/

And here's another update I posted yesterday, about BoM for both Maitreya and Altamura mesh bodies:

https://ryanschultz.com/2019/10/03/second-life-bakes-on-mesh-truly-a-second-life-for-your-system-avatar-skins-and-clothing/

I am very happy with how well Bakes on Mesh works. It have given a "second life" to all my old system skins and system layer clothing!

In the second blogpost I tell you about a free set of finger and foot fixes for older system avatar skins available from League, which will fix issues around the fingernails and toes of these skins. I have tested the fixes and they work well too.

[Theresa Tennyson]

13 minutes ago, Aemeth Lysette said:

Sometimes reading is the only way to know about something. Try to read more.

Although on this particular subject it matters a great deal how much those you read know about the subject.

[Rhonda Huntress]

11 hours ago, EnCore Mayne said:

aving attached those HUDs once, does that mean i'll never be able to use a non-BoM viewer?

Just apply your old skin again and all the BoM will go away.

BoM is just a texture.  Just like any other applier, the way to get rid of it is to apply a new skin over it.  This should be no different than testing a demo skin.  Once you are done, the way to get rid of the demo skin is to apply your normal skin in its place.

The only thing different is to remember to use your full body alpha when not using BoM and to remove your alpha when you are using BoM. 

[EnCore Mayne]

On 10/3/2019 at 4:59 PM, Rhonda Huntress said:

I have one outfit that is affected like that.  My Base.  That base has all the parts that I wear with everything.  Skin, shape, eyes, hair base, AO, mesh body, mesh head, physics and all that jazz.  All other outfits are just clothes and hair.  I wear/replace the base outfit and then Add any othere outfit I want to wear.  That way I can also just Remove that one outfit and Add another at any time.  Fast and easy.  If I want to go BoM i can either edit that one base or, more likely, create a BoM base outfit.  All of my outfits will still work 100%. 

shoulda known that was gonna come into play.