The future of Lara?

[mehllama]

On 10/3/2019 at 2:05 PM, Pussycat Catnap said:

As for the problem with breasts and such... yeah - that will never change. That is actually why I first went to Belleza:

https://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2016/04/26/mesh-avatar-bosom-comparison/

But it's baked into the product line now - if they fix the Maitreya breasts they will break every single fitmesh clothing top item out right now for Maitreya...

 

So that blog compares the Slinks, SalinA, Maitreya Lena Lush, and the Bellezas, all exhibiting very nuanced differences, which is fine for people in the large breast market. Tonic's Fine Beauty as far as I know is the only major body that offers the only significantly different bust option, which was completely ignored by the blog, even though Tonic often scores in the top three bodies in SL. Its bust is smaller and closer to what many people have in RL.

There was a rumor a while back that Maitreya was working on a new body that would rival the Tonic Fine, and I was thrilled to hear it. I would love to see some other creators notice. Right now there isn't much biodiversity in SL - you can have your Trabi in light gray, dark gray, and white, but you can't have a Beetle, a Fiat or a Lexus. It's a real shame because not everyone is buxom in RL or wants to be in SL, even though it's cool for those who are. It's a market that is widely overlooked. 

 

[Marianne Little]

21 hours ago, mehllama said:

So that blog compares the Slinks, SalinA, Maitreya Lena Lush, and the Bellezas, all exhibiting very nuanced differences, which is fine for people in the large breast market. Tonic's Fine Beauty as far as I know is the only major body that offers the only significantly different bust option, which was completely ignored by the blog, even though Tonic often scores in the top three bodies in SL. Its bust is smaller and closer to what many people have in RL.

There was a rumor a while back that Maitreya was working on a new body that would rival the Tonic Fine, and I was thrilled to hear it. I would love to see some other creators notice. Right now there isn't much biodiversity in SL - you can have your Trabi in light gray, dark gray, and white, but you can't have a Beetle, a Fiat or a Lexus. It's a real shame because not everyone is buxom in RL or wants to be in SL, even though it's cool for those who are. It's a market that is widely overlooked. 

 

A very old blogpost, more than 3 years old. In SL that is like 30 years in RL? I agree it could be more different bodies. Only way I can see it, if someone does not need money, and can create niche bodies as a hobby, and can also script and create clothes for them, all out of their own money. Mainstream beauty sells.

[mehllama]

4 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

A very old blogpost, more than 3 years old. In SL that is like 30 years in RL? I agree it could be more different bodies. Only way I can see it, if someone does not need money, and can create niche bodies as a hobby, and can also script and create clothes for them, all out of their own money. Mainstream beauty sells.

To suggest that buxom is the definition of "mainstream" beauty is absurd. Perhaps it has more to do with pr0n culture which has influenced many of the creators. Certainly customers can only buy what's available. For many women, we're not interested in the Aunt Bee look, not that there is anything wrong with it. There's nothing niche about b-cup and smaller chest sizes - at all. Fizz (the creator of Tonic) has done very well with her Tonic line and clothing sellers have as well - I say that as someone who also makes clothes for Tonic. It has been a boon. So avoiding the apparent slight at non-busty people, it need not be a work of charity, but a very solid business model, as Tonic has demonstrated. 

I'm not sure how smaller-busted options are a threat to those who prefer larger busts, but I understand people can internalize lack of uniformity as a personal rejection of some kind. but we needn't do that. 😃

[steeljane42]

4 hours ago, mehllama said:

I'm not sure how smaller-busted options are a threat to those who prefer larger busts, but I understand people can internalize lack of uniformity as a personal rejection of some kind. but we needn't do that

And I'm not sure why do you think it's some kind of rejection or anything like that. It's business, nothing else, like Marianne already said in the post above.

If none of the big creators made such body at this point, then they don't see it worthy of their time investment or don't expect enough of monetary return for time they'd have to spend on it. And no, Tonic is not big by any means (rallying their users to vote in every poll to get any clothing support at all is not a definition of being big and popular), I see someone wearing it in-world every other week. A drop in the ocean compared to "big 3" or "big 3.5" if count the recent TMP's Legacy.

It's same deal as rigging your clothes/shoes/anything else to all kinds of bodies. It's not that creators can't do it, it's just not worth time doing so and supporting the niche or just less popular ones. For example see Slink Physique that was/is getting less and less support in favor of other bodies, including Slink Hourglass and Belleza Venus, which had very bad support ever since Belleza released Freya and Isis. Recently lots of creators even dropped Isis in favor of Legacy.

Now you can guess and wonder why is that and not the way around that you'd like more, say about certain cultures and what not, but it's just the way things are.

P. S.

I doubt that old rumor about other Maitreya body is true anyway, but if they'll ever make another one it most definitely will be more curvy. To compete with actual rivals, Freya, Hourglass and (unless it dies soon) Legacy.

Edited November 7, 2019 by steeljane42

[Tallulah Bilavio]

Oh that will be awesome!

 

[Marianne Little]

13 hours ago, mehllama said:

....

I'm not sure how smaller-busted options are a threat to those who prefer larger busts, but I understand people can internalize lack of uniformity as a personal rejection of some kind. but we needn't do that. 😃

Assuming much, are we? That's quite rich from a poster showing an attitude of patronizing superiority.

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Marianne Little

[Nalates Urriah]

On 11/6/2019 at 7:15 AM, mehllama said:

... as far as I know is the only major body that offers the only significantly different bust option, ...

Slink has 3 sizes. Hourglass for large - C and up, Original for more realistic sizes - B to D, and Petite for flat to A.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Nalates Urriah

[angelikiinha]

I understand the person who said there were no big updates since Bento (sorry, forgot to quote and lazy to search back :p), but I mean: Lara's shape/mesh is REALLY f up in some parts. It's impossible to have big breast with her, it looks horribly artificial (Belleza is very natural). Pregnant/big belly is horrible (so as most of the sliders) and her old issue with shoulders. 

I think it's more than time for the team to improve her. AND of course this is not going to happen since they still selling Lara like hot cakes thanks to the sheer support of designers.

[Janet Voxel]

2 hours ago, angelikiinha said:

I understand the person who said there were no big updates since Bento (sorry, forgot to quote and lazy to search back :p), but I mean: Lara's shape/mesh is REALLY f up in some parts. It's impossible to have big breast with her, it looks horribly artificial (Belleza is very natural). Pregnant/big belly is horrible (so as most of the sliders) and her old issue with shoulders. 

I think it's more than time for the team to improve her. AND of course this is not going to happen since they still selling Lara like hot cakes thanks to the sheer support of designers.

Shhh!!shhh!!

But, but....it has the most clothes and support...by faaaaaar! W-w-why mess with it?

[Alyona Su]

12 hours ago, angelikiinha said:

I understand the person who said there were no big updates since Bento (sorry, forgot to quote and lazy to search back :p), but I mean: Lara's shape/mesh is REALLY f up in some parts. It's impossible to have big breast with her, it looks horribly artificial (Belleza is very natural). Pregnant/big belly is horrible (so as most of the sliders) and her old issue with shoulders. 

I think it's more than time for the team to improve her. AND of course this is not going to happen since they still selling Lara like hot cakes thanks to the sheer support of designers.

Popularity and High-quality are oxymoronic terms to one another. It's the same in first life. They will not update the Lara, they've already done the work, which has paid for itself thousands of times over, so why not just sit back and let the money roll-in? If they do anything, it will be what TMP has done: create an entirely new mesh body. But it would be near impossible to make it so all that Lara stuff fits well, unless they do the deformer thing like TMP Legacy does (many Lara outfits fit better on Legacy with deformers than they do on Lara - experience talking, here.)

10 hours ago, janetosilio said:

Shhh!!shhh!!

But, but....it has the most clothes and support...by faaaaaar! W-w-why mess with it?

Yes, because having a selection of 1000 of the same design of the same thing is better than 100. LOL

[Orwar]

35 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

They will not update the Lara, they've already done the work, which has paid for itself thousands of times over, so why not just sit back and let the money roll-in?

   Except they've told us that they're working on a BoM update for Lara. Not sure when the ETA is though.

[Alyona Su]

3 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Except they've told us that they're working on a BoM update for Lara. Not sure when the ETA is though.

How long, I wonder, does it take to map the UV from system version to Lara version? Because turning anything into BOM is just a checkbox in the Edit Tools, so that's the only thing I can think of that's taking so long. LOL

One thing they cannot update is the fixing of the horrific shoulder/underarm issue Lara has always had; it would break the fitting of most made-for-Lara outfits.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Alyona Su

[Orwar]

Just now, Alyona Su said:

How long, I wonder, does it take to map the UV from system version to Lara version? Because turning anything into BOM is just a checkbox in the Edit Tools, so that's the only thing I can think of that's taking so long. LOL

   I don't know, and that's what has me curious what else they might do for the update. If it was just that, then that could be done in an afternoon whilst sipping tea. I kind of hope they're upping the poly count to make it more akin to Genus heads and the Legacy body in smoothness, but that's probably hoping for too much. *sighs*

[Alyona Su]

2 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   I don't know, and that's what has me curious what else they might do for the update. If it was just that, then that could be done in an afternoon whilst sipping tea. I kind of hope they're upping the poly count to make it more akin to Genus heads and the Legacy body in smoothness, but that's probably hoping for too much. *sighs*

I agree! I have so many mesh bodies, most of them, but always kept coming back to Belleza... until the Legacy was released (finally grabbed it for my alt and only after sold on MP) - I have to admit that I am really tempted to get it for this account also. Because the model does look amazing. I've always been Genus+Belleza because they match so well, but I *love* my Genus+Legacy.

And for the record and the thread: Yes, I really do hope they update and *improve* the Lara, it is a good mesh body, even with its quirk and faults and at a good price point for those prioritizing cost over higher... umm, details.

[Syo Emerald]

14 hours ago, angelikiinha said:

I understand the person who said there were no big updates since Bento (sorry, forgot to quote and lazy to search back :p), but I mean: Lara's shape/mesh is REALLY f up in some parts. It's impossible to have big breast with her, it looks horribly artificial (Belleza is very natural). Pregnant/big belly is horrible (so as most of the sliders) and her old issue with shoulders. 

I think it's more than time for the team to improve her. AND of course this is not going to happen since they still selling Lara like hot cakes thanks to the sheer support of designers.

But there are so many bodies designed for being BIG in...certain areas. Why try to push a Lara body in that direction, when another body provides it straight out of the box? Thats like wanting Catwas duck-lips but not purchasing a Catwa head or going for one of the few more petite male mesh bodies and trying to make an extreme body builder out of it. That is the biggest reason why I stay with Lara (aside from my inventory): I don't have to work so hard on the shape to not have currently popular messurements.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Syo Emerald

[steeljane42]

7 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

and at a good price point for those prioritizing cost over higher... umm, details.

If you meant actual price, then if not count overpriced TMP it's as average price as it gets when it comes to well supported (i.e. not niche) mesh bodies. Slink ones are around 2.8k if you buy hands/feet too (and why you wouldn't), belleza ones are 2.25k I believe, for a single body, maitreya is 2.75k. I think all those eve, signature and tonics ones slightly cheaper, but it's been a while, so maybe something has changed. And until/unless TMP fixes their mesh to remove those "gaps/cracks", higher details award goes to belleza anyway, which is cheaper and doesn't have picture breaking eyesores when you look closer to appreciate those details.

 

6 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

Why try to push a Lara body in that direction, when another body provides it straight out of the box?

 

It's the same old "But it has too many clothing exclusives, while not being in my taste. It MUST be changed so I can have everything!!!".

Yet in all cases those people "forget" to mention that it's also impossible to do other things with different mesh bodies, for example small breasts with freya. They go from very big to big and then to deformed mesh under certain slider values. Must be a bad body! But no, it's a decent body for those who like this kind of shape and it was made with certain looks in mind. So if someone wants a more slim look/shape, then buying freya and ranting how it can't have small breasts is pretty weird.

Just like all bento heads (which you already mentioned) are also made with certain look in mind, you can tweak them, some more and some less, but going above/under certain values pretty much breaks them. And even within reasonable values they all still have distinct characteristics and in most cases it's very easy to tell if it's Catwa, Lelutka or Genus (exact model is a bit more difficult to tell, although certain ones like Catwa Catya or Genus babyface are very obvious no matter what shape and skins are used).

[Alyona Su]

30 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

If you meant actual price, [...]

Price has absolutely nothing to do with it. Value has everything to do with it. If a price for anything is too high for you then the price outweighs the value to you. If the price is not too high, then the price-to-value ratio is balanced. If the price feels low to you then the it is a high value to you.

The difference is that you cannot judge a product as it relates to others based on your wallet and value sense. Everyone places different levels of value onto different things. I could easily proclaim that Maitreya Lara is a waste of money because it is a cheap (quality-wise) product and the value isn't worth the price (only an example, I do not actually feel this way; it's a good mesh body). But I can only ever speak for myself, my value does not equal your value.

So let's just keep that very important fact in perspective, okay?

Edited November 26, 2019 by Alyona Su

[angelikiinha]

8 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

But there are so many bodies designed for being BIG in...certain areas. Why try to push a Lara body in that direction, when another body provides it straight out of the box? Thats like wanting Catwas duck-lips but not purchasing a Catwa head or going for one of the few more petite male mesh bodies and trying to make an extreme body builder out of it. That is the biggest reason why I stay with Lara (aside from my inventory): I don't have to work so hard on the shape to not have currently popular messurements.

Sure, Belleza and new TMP are way superior. But I'm thinking of users who can't buy multiple bodies for specific looks, because you might not want to have big or small breasts all the time - that's the "magic" of SL :D Since Lara is a natural choice for so many people because of the clothes, Id love to see it a bit more flexible and the sliders "morphs" working better. Definitely a good option, but not flexible (for me, at least).

[steeljane42]

1 hour ago, Alyona Su said:

Price has absolutely nothing to do with it. Value has everything to do with it.

If value, then yeah, I agree. Personal tastes as well. There's no perfect body that might suit everyone's needs, be it value you mentioned or look wise. I genuinely like maitreya body the most of all that are available now and it's not even clothing part that makes the difference, I just like it. Got it on release day 5 years ago and pretty happy with it ever since.

That being said some QoL updates like more alpha cuts, option to disable auto alphas etc are always nice to have, so considering what creator/CSR said about upcoming update (being long planned and having way more than just BoM) I'm actually looking forward to it, despite not caring about the BoM part.

[Tarani Tempest]

10 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

How long, I wonder, does it take to map the UV from system version to Lara version? Because turning anything into BOM is just a checkbox in the Edit Tools, so that's the only thing I can think of that's taking so long. LOL

BoM is just one small part of the upcoming Maitreya update, and that part is done.  Just because YOU cannot think of anything else that would take some well needed time to update....does not mean that is the reality of the situation.

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Tarani Tempest
spelling ><

[Alyona Su]

12 hours ago, Tarani Tempest said:

BoM is just one small part of the upcoming Maitreya update, and that part is done.  Just because YOU cannot think of anything else that would take some well needed time to update....does not mean that is the reality of the situation.

 

Wow. I can think of a lot of things being done. As for the additional work: Cite your source and give details or it's nothing but speculation on your part..

[Tarani Tempest]

11 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Wow. I can think of a lot of things being done. As for the additional work: Cite your source and give details or it's nothing but speculation on your part..

https://sl-maitreya.blogspot.com/2019/09/bakes-on-mesh.html

On 10/27/2019 at 10:14 PM, Gryphon Ronas said:

True, and BoM is only 1 part of the upcoming update.

"Activating" BoM is nothing more than applying an LL specified texture to the mesh.  That's why the Relay/HUD was made and distributed while work continued on the full update.

So there we have 2 responses in a row from people that actually know what's going on. Has that ever happened in the SL forums before?!?

Gryphon is THE source.

 

[Alyona Su]

13 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

If value, then yeah, I agree. Personal tastes as well. There's no perfect body that might suit everyone's needs, be it value you mentioned or look wise. I genuinely like maitreya body the most of all that are available now and it's not even clothing part that makes the difference, I just like it. Got it on release day 5 years ago and pretty happy with it ever since.

That being said some QoL updates like more alpha cuts, option to disable auto alphas etc are always nice to have, so considering what creator/CSR said about upcoming update (being long planned and having way more than just BoM) I'm actually looking forward to it, despite not caring about the BoM part.

I concur completely! The main thing, for me, about Lara is that I hate the shape of the legs from the knee-down, it is very European-looking. Asians don't have as much "shape" and westerners LOL - we are more like tube-people, including the legs. I am able to achieve that shape a lot more closely with another mesh body. And this is part of the "value" equation also, that we put our own values on the things we obtain. Some may laugh at me for this, but I know it's the kind of a thing for many.

Though I did wear the Lara on my alt for years until the Legacy demo became available on Market Place (Because I demoed in their shop and said NO. Mostly to the experience of the shop. LOL). Again, it comes down to my version of value, which I may describe to some, but would never attempt to force it onto others.

[Alyona Su]

9 minutes ago, Tarani Tempest said:

https://sl-maitreya.blogspot.com/2019/09/bakes-on-mesh.html

Yes, I've read that a long time ago, too. Basically, BOM has nothing to do with the delay because it's the same delay that's been going on for a year already. LOL

Either way, I'm not sure why you want to debate it. The simple thing to do would have been like Slink and Signature have done: Take the existing body, turn on BOM, add a button to the HUD to activate or deactivate it. - or strip the onion skins and add it to the existing box as an optional choice. Then continue working on the updated they've been working on for the last who-knows-how-long.

Feel free to take the last word to plonk me or not. I've made my points and I believe you've made yours. Fair enough.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Alyona Su

[Janet Voxel]