The future of Lara?

[angelikiinha]

I know I should maybe ask Maitreya owner, Onyx Leshelle (I guess its her name), but maybe someone here knows.

I'm kind of new to SL (my 1st year anniversary is close), and I have been using Lara for something like 8 months -- before, Altamura in free and premium versions (Jenny, Giselle).

During this time, Lara didn't have a single update. I mean, it's an amazing body and I easily recommend to anyone, but there are issues with her, especially with the sliders. Have you tried to make a simply acceptable pregnant Lara? Her tummy protrudes like if raising an alien. Her shoulders bothers me, no matter what I do to adjust. Her breasts are impossible to be over around 50; above it, they just will point forward, not like a natural big breast. I'm only sticking with her because almost literally all clothes fit, it's so good after some months suffering to have decent wardrobe for Altamura.

I feel tempted to shift to Belleza or even that so beautiful new TMP body. The company may not be reliable, as people told, but the body is a delight to see. But it's a real pain for me to invest in another body having a decent one. Did Maitreya had important updates along the last years? And is she still getting updates, being improved? What can we expect for her?

(To get a ride here, I would ask the same about Genesis' heads. I read about the split between designers and the coder, so is it a dead project?)

[FairreLilette]

3 hours ago, angelikiinha said:

I know I should maybe ask Maitreya owner, Onyx Leshelle (I guess its her name), but maybe someone here knows.

I'm kind of new to SL (my 1st year anniversary is close), and I have been using Lara for something like 8 months -- before, Altamura in free and premium versions (Jenny, Giselle).

During this time, Lara didn't have a single update. I mean, it's an amazing body and I easily recommend to anyone, but there are issues with her, especially with the sliders. Have you tried to make a simply acceptable pregnant Lara? Her tummy protrudes like if raising an alien. Her shoulders bothers me, no matter what I do to adjust. Her breasts are impossible to be over around 50; above it, they just will point forward, not like a natural big breast. I'm only sticking with her because almost literally all clothes fit, it's so good after some months suffering to have decent wardrobe for Altamura.

I feel tempted to shift to Belleza or even that so beautiful new TMP body. The company may not be reliable, as people told, but the body is a delight to see. But it's a real pain for me to invest in another body having a decent one. Did Maitreya had important updates along the last years? And is she still getting updates, being improved? What can we expect for her?

(To get a ride here, I would ask the same about Genesis' heads. I read about the split between designers and the coder, so is it a dead project?)

I have Lara but I don't know anything about updates.

As far as Genesis, yes, I believe it is a dead issue because the skins look horrible and I showed them here.  The face is way too light and the body way too dark on Genesis skins, and the neck area is even more horrid.  Look at the neck, it's way too dark a neck.

Me, not knowing anything about mesh heads, bought a Genesis head thinking it was a good price.  However, only Genesis skins will fit on those heads which look horrible most likely due to viewer changes over the years or something "changed"...I don't know what exactly.

I think they are nice heads and someone should fix the skins for it, imo.  And, yes, I am wearing the correct tone for the face and the neck.  The faces are way light, the neck way too dark...it's a mess no one should have to deal regarding Genesis heads.  I say steer clear of those!  I mean either fix the skins or let the whole product go and disappear.    

Edited August 30, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Elora Lunasea]

Maitreya has not had an update in many years. Many. 

Genesis, pffft to that too. Once they split off and Genus took off, they have kind of fizzled out. Genus started out with a lot of difficulties but has become IMO is a beautiful head and is now my favorite - especially the Strong version. 

Personally, I find the fit of the Genus head and Maitreya body to be pretty good most of the time, depending on the applier (and lighting) being used. 

I use Belleza's Freya sometimes also but Maitreya still is best overall in spite of it's lack of updates.

Both bodies fit most heads well although again I have better luck with Maitreya with all heads (I have a LOT of them)

I'm eyeing TMP even though it has a poor rep for support. I bought it for my male alt and OMG it IS good looking. I'd been struggling getting him to look good for years and he finally has the appearance I'd been hoping for. I'd assume the female version is equally as good looking  but of course, not as many options for clothing/fitting heads, etc.

[FairreLilette]

52 minutes ago, Elora Lunasea said:

Maitreya has not had an update in many years. Many. 

Genesis, pffft to that too. 

I'm eyeing TMP even though it has a poor rep for support. I bought it for my male alt and OMG it IS good looking. I'd been struggling getting him to look good for years and he finally has the appearance I'd been hoping for. I'd assume the female version is equally as good looking  but of course, not as many options for clothing/fitting heads, etc.

Genesis, pffft to that and a half!  lol   I believe it is considered "defunct" unless with Bake On Mesh you can wear other skins (I don't know yet - won't be installing it until this weekend).  

Don't confuse Genesis with Genus SL peoples.  Genesis is horrible.  Genus is the new one a lot of people like.

I looked at the TMP body.  The male is gorgeous!  The female shape in the picture looked not so gorgeous to me but rather a caricature.  Is the TMP body modify cuz it says COPY ONLY on Marketplace?

As far as Lara, I also wanted to say I agree with the OP about the shoulders and the breasts.  The shoulders are the most problem, imo.  The breasts could use better shaping.     

Edited August 30, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Maitimo]

3 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Genesis, pffft to that and a half!  lol   I believe it is considered "defunct" unless with Bake On Mesh you can wear other skins (I don't know yet - won't be installing it until this weekend).  

If Genesis is not Omega-compatible, and not updated with a new Bakes on Mesh version, then no, I don't think you'll be able to use Bakes on Mesh with it.  Slink has updated their body already, and so has Signature (that one was pushed out yesterday) but for anything else you need an Omega relay to use BOM and with a body that's not Omega-enabled, I don't see how it's even possible.

As for the future of Lara, I think that will depend on what Maitreya does with Bakes on Mesh. If there's an update for that soon, then I think Lara will stay at the top but if Belleza do it first, then I think they will take over the top spot, and support from creators for Lara will start to fizzle out. But it will be a very slow process and even if this does happen, it will take many years for Lara to disappear entirely. Perhaps not until Omega itself disappears, if it ever does.

Personally, I hate the shoulders on Maitreya - they look like they have been made from extruded plasticine - but until V-Tech and DK decide to make their mods for other bodies (which I really doubt will happen) I am stuck with it.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Matty Luminos

[Gabriele Graves]

6 hours ago, Elora Lunasea said:

Maitreya has not had an update in many years. Many.

The last major update was on April 22nd 2017 (Maitreya Mesh Body Lara Update v4.1) which was mainly to add bento support.
There was also a major update in February 2016 (Maitreya Mesh Body Lara Update v3.5) which is roughly when I started using it.

I wouldn't consider just over two years to be many.

The fact is that the body works really well, offers all of the main features that people expect and doesn't have any significant bugs.  Until now it hasn't really needed an update.  Many people may be glad it isn't updated unnecessarily.  When v4.0 came out, they followed it up with a v4.1 release very quickly to fix some issues and add a few small extra features.  There was a lot of complaints, not because the update wasn't great but because of the work needed to replace the body in all of their outfits so soon after doing it for v4.0.  Of course, this was due to many people at that time not knowing how to use "Replace Links" in the viewer or not knowing there was an easy way to deal with this.  There was a lot of hand holding and assistance on the support group (Maitreya Lara Friends) at the time to help those people.  For these reasons, I can completely understand that updates come out only when needed and not just to add some random shiny that maybe only a few people want.

At this stage, there is every reason to believe that there will be an update for BoM, it was even discussed at length when the BoM project was announced and @Gryphon Ronas who is the General Manager/CSR for Maitreya said that it was in the pipeline and would be released along with some other changes (possibly an update to the newer Glam Affair skins) when BoM would be released.  At that time it was stated that they were holding those changes back, thinking to bring just one release under the assumption that BoM was going to be much earlier than it has turned out.

Obviously plans can change but it is way, way, way too early in the game to be thinking that there isn't going to be support for BoM.
 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Gabriele Graves
General corrections

[Panteleeva]

i started from slink ,really love  that body since it released. And bought Maitreya, because  there was much more clothes for this body and it have good autohide system .Agree with @Matty Luminos  about shoulders  and omg totally agree with @angelikiinha about pregnant Lara.  ( with all shapes i had,pregnancy looked like i just ate much burgers,lol

[Theresa Tennyson]

12 hours ago, angelikiinha said:

During this time, Lara didn't have a single update. I mean, it's an amazing body and I easily recommend to anyone, but there are issues with her, especially with the sliders. Have you tried to make a simply acceptable pregnant Lara? Her tummy protrudes like if raising an alien. Her shoulders bothers me, no matter what I do to adjust. Her breasts are impossible to be over around 50; above it, they just will point forward, not like a natural big breast. I'm only sticking with her because almost literally all clothes fit, it's so good after some months suffering to have decent wardrobe for Altamura.

If your problems are with the basic shape of the Lara body, those will never be fixed because if they are the huge back-stock of clothing will no longer fit properly.

[Maitimo]

I agree with @Gabriele Graves. Signature pops out an update every other month and frankly I find it more than a bit annoying.

[Janet Voxel]

The older Genesis Lab heads still look and work great! The two or three bento heads before they split are really good too. They may be lacking in the animation department, but they’re good heads. I think they don’t have omega support, but they hold up well.

[Elora Lunasea]

41 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

The older Genesis Lab heads still look and work great! The two or three bento heads before they split are really good too. They may be lacking in the animation department, but they’re good heads. I think they don’t have omega support, but they hold up well.

I'll admit they are good for photo shoots. I'd never delete them from my inventory because several of them are extremely unique looking. I have quite a few rare gachas from them. Lorena, Sofie, Anis, Liu, Tara, Madlen, Rita and Emily...if anyone can find those in the Marketplace (at least a couple are Bento) you'll be getting a totally different look than everyone else walking around although, not quite as up to date in the animation department. 

Now that I wrote that, I'm going to have to break a couple of those out and play around with some of my most current appliers and see how well they stand up to them 😊

[Alyona Su]

I'm wearing Genus head in my Profile picture here, my alt wears a Genesis head and get's more compliments (and far more likes in some of the photo threads here) - even though both are made to look similar. Genesis Animations are not an issue (I use Chrysanthemum face AO and it's better than most facial AOs, including Catwa and Lelutka, but that's a moot point.

I have Maitreya, All three Belleza, Eve, Tonic and Slink. I do not judge the quality of any based on how often they are updated, etc.; I based it on the look and on (as asked by the OP) how the sliders allow me to get the look I want (I *still* keep going back to Belleza Venus) - and @angelikiinha - try demos of all the bodies you can find. All three Belleza bodies can do a maternal belly quite well. As for Bakes on Mesh: Just as with Bento - it will not be "main stream" until at least a year after Firestorm finally gets around to implementing it. So BoM is NOT something people should be considering as a buying-decision priority right now.

Most creators of things will be implementing BoM by this time next year. As for mesh heads and BoM: Not necessary, as long as you can get a matching skin with an applier for the head, and a BoM version for the body, it's still doable. And just because BoM is the new shiny, it doesn't't mean you have to use it. Onion-skin bodies and heads will be around and well in-use five years from now.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Alyona Su

[FairreLilette]

Genesis heads are lovely.  It's the skins.  I bought the head precisely to use for photography and did not like it except for black and white.  The neck stood out too much to me...so I tried to cover it up with chokers all the way up the neck.  I couldn't live my SL with chokers all the way up the neck.  I was hoping with BOM my skins would work on the Genesis head.  That is way too bad to hear.  I heard there is some code that won't allow others skins to go on the heads but only Genesis skins will work. 

Personally, the heads are good enough for the company to be bought out IF other skins can be made.  The neck darkness and lightness of the face is just not for me.  

The Maitreya arms can give you some realistic shoots as shown in my photo below.  I think the arms look real in this photo and can look real in many photos I have BUT in others, just horrible deformation. 

But, also it's the skins for female that can lack definition in the shoulders.  Male skins can be very well defined in the shoulders, while female skins in the shoulders look more doll like. 

TMP body is not Omega compatible as of my current read of the reviews on MP.  The reviews for TMP say you cannot use your own skins because not Omege compatible.  We are in a big change with BoM...we all need to take a breath now and then cuz it's confusing a little, imo.  I want to use some of my Classic things first and make lots of copies of my Maitreya body while I test things out.   

Edited August 30, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Tess Falworth]

Lara is a lovely body, and frankly, if it isn't broke, don't fix it, as they say. I'd love to see the update to the Glam Affair skins soon, however. I have Maitreya, Belleza and Slink, and actually Tonic too, which is a beautiful body as well but gets very little love from mesh clothing makers, though a lot of slink fitted clothing will work for it .

But, back to Maitreya and the other bodies you mentioned. Each body will give you a different look, and each one has its pros and con. Frankly, I like the shape of the thighs on the Belleza bodies, but not the rest of the legs, and I do like how their shoulders are shaped, as well as their breasts, but I really dislike the shape of the line between the bum and the back of the thigh. That does not stop me from wearing them though as they are overall a really pretty body. There are things on their HUD I'd like fixed but not enough for me to complain about it to the creator. Slink is pretty too and I like the overall shape of the Hourglass body, but its more "cartoony" if you will. I think if I were to rank them in order of use for me: Maitreya, Slink HG, and then Belleza Freya or Isis. 

I understand what you mean about the pregnant belly thing on the Maitreya body, though. I think for overall usability, and considering how much is crated for Maitreya alone, it is a good body to have if you are only going to have ONE body. 

[Tess Falworth]

23 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

The Maitreya arms can give you some realistic shoots as shown in my photo below.  I think the arms look real in this photo and can look real in many photos I have BUT in others, just horrible deformation. 

 

Yes! I agree  and the hands on Slink and Maitreya I think are just a bit overall better than Belleza, but again, not enough for me to not use Belleza. Sadly, there is WAY less created for rigged Belleza hands, and I love to wear lots of bento rings, etc, which are mostly in Maitreya or Slink.  In the image below the overall look is lovely but the collar bone and shoulder is much softer and rounder than in Belleza or even slink. 

Both below use Lara. The fun in this body is how varied a look you can get from it. I like using Lara for slimmer, more petite shapes as I think it lends itself well to it. Also, I think from various year of observing the shapes on these bodies, that Lara is more "youthful" thank the Belleza bodies. To put it another way, Maitreya is the college co-ed or the 30's mommy, while Belleza is the 35-45 age range. And, yes I know you can create a youthful looking avi with Belleza and an older looking one with Maitreya, but in default, Maitreya is must by default more youthful. 

[MrsSeren]

Used Lara since Apr 2015; has 0 complaints about Lara and my logic for choosing is kinda funny; my thought was Lara for Laura so must be mine!  I remember that much of 2015 as my memories of that year hazy at best due to health reasons however I'm fine now and that is all that matters!  

[s2Pandora]

As others have said, Maitreya has not been updated in a while. The creator seems mostly MIA. The other bodies got a body hud skin update a while back, Maitreya was and still is nowhere to be found with that. Still a beautiful body, and I haven't had issues with anything breaking to need to contact any staff on it, so that's a plus.

As far as I know when it comes to baby bumps, though, most seem to gravitate toward add-ons, as they tend to be shaped better than just using belly sliders. I could be wrong, but the few SL pregnant women i've seen were all wearing belly add-ons.

Genesis still makes skins, but in the head department they are pretty much flatlined. Their splitoffs as others mentioned made Genus, which is all the rage atm, although I cannot see why as many aspects are broken other than for looking nice in screenshots. Still though, people love it, people hate it, as is the usual. Most are either with Genus or Catwa, though i've heard something about new AK heads being good as of recent.

Edited August 30, 2019 by s2Pandora

[Gabriele Graves]

Pandora, please read my post about Lara and updates.  You might find it informative:

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/442243-the-future-of-lara/?do=findComment&comment=1967021

As far as I know Onyx, the creator has never really engaged with her customers directly even when the body was first released.  This is a lot different from how a lot of other creators operate.  She has always worked through her General Manager/CSR @Gryphon Ronas.  Lara is very well supported by the Maitreya Lara Friends inworld group in which the previously mentioned CSR is very active in assisting with issues and in the past has fed back issues and comments as needed.  The fact is that as you have noted, the body doesn't really have any functional problems and so all of this may contribute to a sense of MIA and no support.  It is very far from the truth as far as I have observed.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Gabriele Graves

[Claireschen Hesten]

If you want to RP being pregnant there are add on belly's you can buy that do a better bump than can be achieved with appearance sliders, With the boobs that's the only thing that's irked me with the body if you want to go large they are just that bit too squarish in appearance to look natural. 
I expect the next upgrade will be to make it compatible with BoM. I believe the LeLutka heads which include the same GA skins as Maitreya are have been BoM compatible for quite some time at least the HUD for the most recent demo i have has a BoM section

 

[FairreLilette]

40 minutes ago, Tess Falworth said:

Yes! I agree  and the hands on Slink and Maitreya I think are just a bit overall better than Belleza, but again, not enough for me to not use Belleza. Sadly, there is WAY less created for rigged Belleza hands, and I love to wear lots of bento rings, etc, which are mostly in Maitreya or Slink.  In the image below the overall look is lovely but the collar bone and shoulder is much softer and rounder than in Belleza or even slink. 

Both below use Lara. The fun in this body is how varied a look you can get from it. I like using Lara for slimmer, more petite shapes as I think it lends itself well to it. Also, I think from various year of observing the shapes on these bodies, that Lara is more "youthful" thank the Belleza bodies. To put it another way, Maitreya is the college co-ed or the 30's mommy, while Belleza is the 35-45 age range. And, yes I know you can create a youthful looking avi with Belleza and an older looking one with Maitreya, but in default, Maitreya is must by default more youthful. 

I love the rings too!  Just bought some for my rez day on Aug 16th and they are beautiful!  

Darling shapes you have posted.

I just checked my own shoulders and googled female shoulders and actually there isn't that much definition in a female shoulder except maybe the collar bone goes a little more over to the shoulder itself.   

[Tess Falworth]

35 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I just checked my own shoulders and googled female shoulders and actually there isn't that much definition in a female shoulder except maybe the collar bone goes a little more over to the shoulder itself.   

yes! females have less defined ones, in general, that is unless you are weight lifting.. but still. There are just limitations to what SL can do with bodies, and I do agree that skins will have SO MUCH TO DO with the overall definition. And yay for rings!

[Maitimo]

@Tess Falworth your picture is beautiful but it illustrates exactly what I mean about the shoulder looking like extruded plasticine. Not merely the lack of definition but the shape itself is anatomically wrong. 

It looks like it's boneless. Like the tentacles on a Twilek's head. 

Looking at it more constructively, it looks like the crease of the armpit goes up too high and curves outwards too much. There's just not enough bulk on top of the shoulder and on the outside of it. And the collarbones seem to be too short.

Imma gonna play with sliders, see if there's any combination that improves it.

[Eva Knoller]

It’s funny, I’ve never really noticed the Lara shoulder issue but now that it’s been pointed out I can’t unsee it. The armpit goes up too high. Especially noticeable when comparing to the real picture up thread.

 

[Alyona Su]

37 minutes ago, Eva Knoller said:

It’s funny, I’ve never really noticed the Lara shoulder issue but now that it’s been pointed out I can’t unsee it. The armpit goes up too high. Especially noticeable when comparing to the real picture up thread.

 

A few brands are like that and it among the primary reasons I keep coming back to my Belleza. I haven't worn my Slink or Tonic in a while so I don't remember if they have that issue or not, though I think Eve does and I don't like the butt and knee shapes on them as well (and the legs on Maitreya - SO European-looking to me and, again, why I come back to Belleza) - though Maitreya has the best default girl-bits among all of them (including Belleza) and a decent butt. LOL 

And to clarify for those who take comments personally - I'm not saying others are bad, I am speaking only for myself and my own likes and dislikes. Everyone has different taste. And the "shoulder" thing isn't so much the shoulder as it is the *armpit* area - it's "cut" too high up.

Wait.. I wonder if this comment should go into that new "Vanity" thread...

Edited August 30, 2019 by Alyona Su

[Maitimo]

OK so I have done a little experimenting.  First off, I also often didn't notice it, then it occurred to me that most of the time I am wearing the V-tech flat chest mod, which also goes over the shoulders and makes some difference - I'll come to that later.

So here's my normal shape but without the v-tech (ignore the boobs please, I don't actually have those). 

My usual slider numbers are (for the relevant sliders) Body Thickness 93, Body fat 12, Torso Muscle 88, Shoulder Width 53.  Now I appreciate that I'm approximating a masculine build here and most women probably won't want numbers quite this extreme.

The first surprise was that Body Thickness made no difference, other than making the whole frame narrower, it did not affect shoulder bulk in any noticeable way. 

The Body Fat slider made a slight difference at or near zero (made the effect slightly worse) but above 10 or so there's no further noticeable improvement.

Torso Muscle, unsurprisingly, made a bigger difference. Here it is turned down to 20:

It hasn't affected the height of the armpit crease but there's less bulk around the outside of the shoulder here.

Last one is shoulder width, here I cranked it up to 90:

Just - eww.

So it looks like the optimum shape to minimise this effect is a bodyfat of 10 or more, with narrower shoulders and as much torso muscle as you can bear. What you want to avoid, if you can, is any gap between arm and chest when your arms are positioned straight down.

Whatever you do, it will never look right from the back.

And in comparison here's my original shape, this time with the V-tech on:

What this mod seems to do for the shoulders is emphasize the trapezius muscles (that connect the neck with the shoulder), making the shoulder look more sloped and adding the appearance of more bulk on top, though it doesn't eliminate the problem entirely - that armpit crease is still too high even with the V-Tech on.

(As an aside, that applier tanktop is mapped for a male body shape, which is why the bottom hem is nice and straight on the V-tech but all wobbly on the unmodified Maitreya body. Never realised it would make such a difference but apparently so).

Edited August 30, 2019 by Matty Luminos