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Where's my free Bakes-on-Mesh avatar update?

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1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said:

If those zoomed in features have lowres textures then it will show

if the object is small, even when zoomed in close it will be that relatively small on the screen that an accurately sized texture won't show any pixellation, that's where you fail understanding. It's called texel density, the amount of pixels per square unit. if a button on your shirt would take 30X30 pixels on your screen, a correctly UV mapped object of that size using a 128x128 pixels texture would go well beyond the necessary resolution to look good. What you don't know, however, is that a lot of creators don't give half a s**t about their UV size on the image. I've been teacher and advisor to many creators in the past and I've seen this happening a lot... a awful LOT. But they have to rush the release to earna da bigg maney

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, OptimoMaximo said:

if the object is small, even when zoomed in close it will be that relatively small on the screen that an accurately sized texture won't show any pixellation, that's where you fail understanding. It's called texel density, the amount of pixels per square unit. if a button on your shirt would take 30X30 pixels on your screen, a correctly UV mapped object of that size using a 128x128 pixels texture would go well beyond the necessary resolution to look good. What you don't know, however, is that a lot of creators don't give half a s**t about their UV size on the image. I've been teacher and advisor to many creators in the past and I've seen this happening a lot... a awful LOT. But they have to rush the release to earna da bigg maney

I might have been more willing to discuss this with you and perhaps learn something I don't know but frankly I find your elitist tone offensive.

Edited by Gabriele Graves

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1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said:

but frankly I find your elitist tone offensive.

sure, in the lack of argumentations the topic gets ditched. Way to go, good job. Exactly like those creators i was mentioning above.

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Optimo's approach might be a bit rough sure, but not exactly wrong, there is WAY too much stuff on SL with 1024x textures that shouldn't be 1024x sized textures, and in some cases, even 512x would still be too big for them. 1024x should be saved for the biggest parts. Buildings for example can reasonable get away with a couple of 1024 for the major parts of it. And for avatars, that would be the body, unless that body is split apart into multiple UV's like the ol "standard" which is split into threes, then go lower.

The face, while contributing to a smaller portion of the overall size is an exception to the rule since it's arguably the main "star of the show" in a way with character models, so it staying somewhat close in size to the body isn't entirely unreasonable, otherwise for the SL body, the ideal sizes would be 512x for the upper/lower body sections, and 256x for the head, but as I said, since the face is a main attraction, it can stay at 512x as well, but for any other parts of it's size compared to the rest, it should normally go smaller.

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It is way beyond a bit rough in my opinion.

I never said he was wrong about inappropriate use of large textures where there is no need.  I am as aware of this as a non-expert can be but the definition of "where there is no need" is very subjective I feel.  I realise this is a bad example but someone who wants to zoom in on a locket around someone's neck and see a detailed portrait when it is larger on their screen, a 128x128 for the portrait isn't going to satisfy.  Maybe you can somehow make that seem as sharp and as good as a 1024 when it is made bigger but I doubt it.  Of course the response to this is, why would you want to do this?  It doesn't matter, they do and they want it to look great like in real life.  That is the part that gets missed.  There are lots of little things like this that some people feel it is important enough that they want to see them up close in glorious detail.

If I am still wrong about this then fair enough, I will be wrong - it was never about not being wrong, it was about the attitude.

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Well, like I said, there can be exceptions to the rules, the rest of the texture for the locket itself probably won't need more than the 128x range, but the face for the picture can be just left as a big plain square sized face to let peeps put what ever pic they like on it, course me personally, I'd probably try to keep what ever picture I'd put there still within the 512x at max.

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Posted (edited)

Well that at least is a better position for discussion.  I have no desire to flog any dead horses over this.  All I wanted to know is that if everything had to end up going down to 128x128 for performance reasons would it all end up look cartoony and stylised where logos and pictures on things look like splotches, etc.  I mean they just upped the texture back to 1024 for BoM layers and avatars are part of the landscape after all.  Can we go down to 128x128 for skins and it still be indistinguishable from a highly detailed 1024?  If so then LL hasn't done themselves any favours presumably by allowing them.

Edited by Gabriele Graves

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55 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Can we go down to 128x128 for skins and it still be indistinguishable from a highly detailed 1024?  If so then LL hasn't done themselves any favours presumably by allowing them

How can an avatar be even remotely compared to the tiny objects you were referring to?! Consistency in context? Of course an "hero" object like a character gets an higher texture size allocation, it's the button on the jacket that gets the lowest texture coverage! 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/30/2019 at 4:42 PM, Gabriele Graves said:

I might have been more willing to discuss this with you and perhaps learn something I don't know but frankly I find your elitist tone offensive.

He's more than likely tired of repeating himself and being asked time and time again to justify his stance.

 

People don't really understand that keeping a consistent texel density improve the look of the scene, they just see that it's 10L$ for a 16x16 and 10L$ for a 1024x1024 and figure out they will just get the most bang for their buck.

Edited by Kyrah Abattoir
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In an ideal world, the viewer would do a better job of maintaining a consistent texel density and make uploaded texture size irrelevant. 

There is a software solution to this problem. 

There is also an expectation that in SL you should be able to shove your camera right up to everything and see hero detail, and the perception that if something isn't loaded at the highest possible resolution then something wrong.

Edited by CoffeeDujour
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On 8/29/2019 at 12:07 PM, AyelaNewLife said:

People are inherently irrational, sadly.

That's what you get by starting with apes and adding stupidity.

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On 8/27/2019 at 11:14 AM, Cinos Field said:

Slink has always been the "responsible" brand, the problem is just they don't leverage that in advertising. Even the layered version of the hourglass is about half the polygons of Maitreya, and a tenth of Belleza, while still managing to get just as pretty a shape. If they did advertise it like that it'd surely be a wise move; who hasn't experienced huge lag spikes around certain avatars in SL?

So they're like the electric car of SL, competing against regular Joe car Maitreya and the gas-guzzling luxury vehicle that is Belleza. The tradeoff being that it's a little harder to make skins for, and now you can't use appliers anymore. It's consistent with their brand identity, at least the perceived one, and if that's how they marketed themselves I'd definitely think it's a smart move.

Alas...

Wait, don't electric cars hook up to power grids run on coal? Eek. Still, I get your point and agree with it. Efficiency is good, and it's felt directly in places packed with avatars. 

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On 8/28/2019 at 1:47 AM, Roguerie said:

Will there be an update tho.. ? lol that body hasn't updated in forever. I just think only BOM could literally be the only thing to force the creator to do anything at all. Only to avoid losing to other mesh bodies who have been updating and keeping up with SL. I have given up on Maitreya, not just because I feel absolutely generic and boring wearing it (this is personal, not an attack on its other users) but because it's so limiting in options compared to other mesh bodies now with BOM, even more so.  I feel really happy I've moved on a while ago but I'm curious.

Maitreya posted this last month: 

stating that they are working on a BoM update but have had some bumps along the way. 

My guess is with such market dominance, Maitreya will play it very safe, both with the release itself and with what's in the release (probably not much considered bleeding edge). 

Another issue is the actual release of the update itself. Given that most of SL has the Lara body, sending it to everyone at the same time could maybe cause technical issues for SL (I don't know, since I'm not a tech type person, but at that scale it seems possible). So will they have to stagger the release or coordinate at all with LL? Random thoughts. 

Of course the other option is that Maitreya calls it good and steps out of SL. I mean, think about it: they've achieved nearly total saturation, so new buyers are not the flood they used to be. They are having to rely more and more on clothing sales to keep the margins up, even as they incur expenses servicing the free updates of the items that have already been sold. I know, unlikely but it crossed my mind as something I couldn't blame them for. 

 

 

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On 10/24/2019 at 5:58 PM, mehllama said:

Maitreya posted this last month: 

stating that they are working on a BoM update but have had some bumps along the way. 

My guess is with such market dominance, Maitreya will play it very safe, both with the release itself and with what's in the release (probably not much considered bleeding edge). 

Another issue is the actual release of the update itself. Given that most of SL has the Lara body, sending it to everyone at the same time could maybe cause technical issues for SL (I don't know, since I'm not a tech type person, but at that scale it seems possible). So will they have to stagger the release or coordinate at all with LL? Random thoughts. 

Of course the other option is that Maitreya calls it good and steps out of SL. I mean, think about it: they've achieved nearly total saturation, so new buyers are not the flood they used to be. They are having to rely more and more on clothing sales to keep the margins up, even as they incur expenses servicing the free updates of the items that have already been sold. I know, unlikely but it crossed my mind as something I couldn't blame them for. 

 

 

First of all, Maitreya sat on their laurels since the last time they updated... and that was Bento.

They had all this time to keep up as Bakes on Mesh was known to everyone.

Every other creator that makes mesh bodies or heads knew and worked tirelessly to come out with their takes on BoM.  Some built BoM right into their stuff... others with a relay HUD... and Slink forgoing the onion body entirely for BoM as BoM no longer requires full body alphas.

The possible reason Maitreya has had bumps along the way with BoM is because there is that one possibility that they can't update their body.  Remember, this is a possibility and shouldn't be taken as fact.  For all we know, it could be anything that's making it rough for them; but the fact remains is that they should not have sat on their laurels.

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4 hours ago, AliciaMarieJames said:

First of all, Maitreya sat on their laurels since the last time they updated... and that was Bento.

They had all this time to keep up as Bakes on Mesh was known to everyone.

Every other creator that makes mesh bodies or heads knew and worked tirelessly to come out with their takes on BoM.  Some built BoM right into their stuff... others with a relay HUD... and Slink forgoing the onion body entirely for BoM as BoM no longer requires full body alphas.

The possible reason Maitreya has had bumps along the way with BoM is because there is that one possibility that they can't update their body.  Remember, this is a possibility and shouldn't be taken as fact.  For all we know, it could be anything that's making it rough for them; but the fact remains is that they should not have sat on their laurels.

Maitreya has had a BoM relay available ..for free, since Sept 5th.  

An update is currently being worked on... https://sl-maitreya.blogspot.com/2019/09/bakes-on-mesh.html

No laurels are being sat on.

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41 minutes ago, Tarani Tempest said:

Maitreya has had a BoM relay available ..for free, since Sept 5th.  

An update is currently being worked on... https://sl-maitreya.blogspot.com/2019/09/bakes-on-mesh.html

No laurels are being sat on.

True, and BoM is only 1 part of the upcoming update.

"Activating" BoM is nothing more than applying an LL specified texture to the mesh.  That's why the Relay/HUD was made and distributed while work continued on the full update.

So there we have 2 responses in a row from people that actually know what's going on. Has that ever happened in the SL forums before?!?

Edited by Gryphon Ronas
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On 10/24/2019 at 9:46 PM, Gabriele Graves said:

Not here in NZ, only 6% of our power is coal and non-renewables in general are less than 10%  (source: Electricity sector in New Zealand).

We're in a somewhat similar position in Ontario, except that of course there's one big North American grid so our spare clean electricity flows elsewhere off-peak -- and that means that on-peak, we're causing some mighty dirty turbines to spin somewhere else. So weirdly enough, individual electric cars here are greener than our shiny new electric LRT because the cars charge off-peak whereas the LRT pulls (by far) its most power during hours of peak demand on the grid.

(Another dirty little secret: When everything is powered by internal combustion, there's no real CO2 advantage to mass transit over individual vehicles -- in this case because off-peak transit everywhere in North America operates with low enough ridership that each trip is a little environmental disaster. There are other very good reasons for mass transit, of course, but the oft-touted environmental benefits are almost all bunk.)

None of which has anything to do with Bakes on Mesh, of course, but I started this thread months ago so sue me.

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7 hours ago, Tarani Tempest said:

Maitreya has had a BoM relay available ..for free, since Sept 5th.  

An update is currently being worked on... https://sl-maitreya.blogspot.com/2019/09/bakes-on-mesh.html

No laurels are being sat on.

Yes, I've had that relay HUD since early September, and yes, I read that blog shortly after.

So yes, I do feel that they sat on their laurels from the time they put their Bento body out until now when they could have updated the body during that time.

There's no excuse.  None of the other body/head creators are giving off any kind of excuse as they did update and prepare for BoM during all that time.  To me, all that blog post represents is one huge excuse.  If they were committed to putting out the best product out there, then they don't get to sit on their laurels and wait.

As the adage goes, "If you want to be the best... you don't get to rest."

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14 minutes ago, AliciaMarieJames said:

Yes, I've had that relay HUD since early September, and yes, I read that blog shortly after.

So yes, I do feel that they sat on their laurels from the time they put their Bento body out until now when they could have updated the body during that time.

There's no excuse.  None of the other body/head creators are giving off any kind of excuse as they did update and prepare for BoM during all that time.  To me, all that blog post represents is one huge excuse.  If they were committed to putting out the best product out there, then they don't get to sit on their laurels and wait.

As the adage goes, "If you want to be the best... you don't get to rest."

I disagree. Slink made a hasty decision. Their Redux is too extreme and I belive it will fail. My hope is that Maitreya comes with a 1 layer hybrid body, that is lighter than the old one but still allows 1 applier to be worn. Yes, I know Slink has added a materials layer. That can't be used for an applier lingerie, just an example.

Other bodies has added a BoM button to their Hud. And where is Belleza in this? Do they have a relay, a button to press, or have they changed the body? Or Altamura?

I also disagree with updates just so they can say "we had an update". If nothing is broken, don't fix it. What, do you say, should they have changed between Bento and BoM?

Feel free to disagree, that is clearly your right.

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3 hours ago, AliciaMarieJames said:

None of the other body/head creators are giving off any kind of excuse as they did update and prepare for BoM during all that time. 

There were many changes along the path to BoM becoming a reality. Most creators waited knowing that it could very well end up that any work they did toward the BoM release might not be viable anyway. One good example of this is the Lelutka mesh head updating to BoM before the final release only to have that update fail when Bom FINALLY went live. So Lelutka had to quickly update the heads again. It was rather prudent of creators to take a wait and see approach until all things were finalized by the LAB in regards to BoM.

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I also disagree with updates just so they can say "we had an update". If nothing is broken, don't fix it.

This! So much this! Updating a product for no good reason causes inconvenience for customers. Who wants to constantly have to update outfits just so a creator can say they've updated the product? I don't! 

Edited by Blush Bravin
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1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

I disagree. Slink made a hasty decision. Their Redux is too extreme and I belive it will fail. My hope is that Maitreya comes with a 1 layer hybrid body, that is lighter than the old one but still allows 1 applier to be worn. Yes, I know Slink has added a materials layer. That can't be used for an applier lingerie, just an example.

I really wish (but it sure doesn't sound like it) that Maitreya won't do a hybrid but instead two separate bodies, like Slink. That kind of support from the mesh creators is needed to push more and more releases of system layers. Otherwise skins will just stay as appliers.

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3 hours ago, Freyja Nemeth said:

I really wish (but it sure doesn't sound like it) that Maitreya won't do a hybrid but instead two separate bodies, like Slink. That kind of support from the mesh creators is needed to push more and more releases of system layers. Otherwise skins will just stay as appliers.

Doesn't sound like it from what source? No official announcements have been made regarding how it's being handled.

Speculation, predictions, and rumors in a forum thread are not quite the same thing as, you know... A statement from someone who actually knows.

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12 minutes ago, Gryphon Ronas said:

Doesn't sound like it from what source? No official announcements have been made regarding how it's being handled.

Speculation, predictions, and rumors in a forum thread are not quite the same thing as, you know... A statement from someone who actually knows.

No specific announcements, no, but what they did post makes it sound (which is just what I wrote) like they will keep some layers.

" BoM will be an addition to the Lara mesh body, not a replacement of anything. We fully understand that many of you have invested a lot of time and money in both buying and creating appliers. We also expect that for certain things the use of appliers and dedicated layers might still be preferred. "

" We have been re-thinking the layer system and how to best use it in a world where BoM exists. "

Yes, it COULD mean they will also go for a separate body (and I hope that is the case), the wording just didn't quite sound like it to me.

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