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Qie Niangao

Where's my free Bakes-on-Mesh avatar update?

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9 minutes ago, Cinos Field said:

Slink has always been the "responsible" brand, the problem is just they don't leverage that in advertising. Even the layered version of the hourglass is about half the polygons of Maitreya, and a tenth of Belleza, while still managing to get just as pretty a shape. If they did advertise it like that it'd surely be a wise move; who hasn't experienced huge lag spikes around certain avatars in SL?

So they're like the electric car of SL, competing against regular Joe car Maitreya and the gas-guzzling luxury vehicle that is Belleza. The tradeoff being that it's a little harder to make skins for, and now you can't use appliers anymore. It's consistent with their brand identity, at least the perceived one, and if that's how they marketed themselves I'd definitely think it's a smart move.

Alas...

I am very fond of Slink, for lots of reasons -- I'm not surprised to hear that they are, as you say, the "responsible" brand. I wonder, though, how much leverage they'd actually get from marketing that element? Again, the appeal of that depends upon a certain degree of altruistic feeling on the part of the consumers, and mostly I think that doesn't play a big role in consumer purchases. But maybe I should have more faith.

The other problem with Slink right now is that the Physique body is rapidly -- like, really noticeably within the past few months -- no longer being supported by clothing creators. I have no intention of dumping Physique (and I don't actually like Hourglass, at all, so that's not an option for me), but it's becoming increasingly clear that I may have to supplement it with Maitreya or Belleza. I lean towards the latter, in part because I really dislike the way that the Lara is coming to monopolize everything. But, honestly, I'm starting to think that Maitreya may end up being the last one standing.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I am very fond of Slink, for lots of reasons -- I'm not surprised to hear that they are, as you say, the "responsible" brand. I wonder, though, how much leverage they'd actually get from marketing that element? Again, the appeal of that depends upon a certain degree of altruistic feeling on the part of the consumers, and mostly I think that doesn't play a big role in consumer purchases. But maybe I should have more faith.

The other problem with Slink right now is that the Physique body is rapidly -- like, really noticeably within the past few months -- no longer being supported by clothing creators. I have no intention of dumping Physique (and I don't actually like Hourglass, at all, so that's not an option for me), but it's becoming increasingly clear that I may have to supplement it with Maitreya or Belleza. I lean towards the latter, in part because I really dislike the way that the Lara is coming to monopolize everything. But, honestly, I'm starting to think that Maitreya may end up being the last one standing.

I do think it would be possible! People in real life are generally becoming more interested in stuff like sustainability and not polluting and such. Of course, it's not exactly a perfect comparison, but a parallel could be drawn in advertising, and I think people could be convinced to sacrifice just a little of their convenience in exchange for feeling (much) better about their impact. Just for the record, the Slink Redux is 16k polygons, compared to one of the other big brands having 500k.

I think it's a great initiative personally; in a dream SL where every avatar is that well optimized, we'd all be having far, far better framerates. I do also think that lacking that approach to marketing, they might have to supply both options, eventually.

Of course, this is all from a (hopeless idealist) consumer perspective; I don't create anything in-world, myself, nor am I terribly good at running a business.

Edited by Cinos Field
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3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The theory is that this will, in the long run, make avatar customization easier, because all of the stuff for which we currently use appliers will be replaced with system versions. So, it should become as easy as it was pre-mesh. If you want to wear, for instance, a non-mesh tee shirt, you'll just need to right click on the item in your inventory and choose "wear": no need to open the applier, or the Omega relay if that's been necessary, to put that on.

But it's surely going to be a year or two before the makers of mesh bodies, heads, and body parts, the TPVs, and, most importantly, the content makers have all caught up on this.

And in the meantime, it's going to be chaos, partially because of incomplete adoption, and partially because no one is taking the time to explain this in layperson terms. God help the customer service reps for product lines like Maitreya, Slink, and Catwa.

Yes, not for the first time do I find myself asking, "Where's Torley when we need him?"

Someone who could do an excellent job is Strawberry Singh, but I don't think her position with LL is quite the same as the one that Torley performed for SL. In fact, she produced a video on the subject, but it's now a year and a half old.

 

CC doesn't match lip movement on SL avatars... which renders YouTube's CC useless since half the words are wrong. That means I'm wasting my time trying to watch. :S

Besides, her eyeliner is hanging down over her eyeballs and that is just creepy. Looks like she used the eyeliner pencil on her eyeballs. *shudders* :ph34r:

I still chatlub Strawberry though.

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12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The other problem with Slink right now is that the Physique body is rapidly -- like, really noticeably within the past few months -- no longer being supported by clothing creators. 

Yeah, and that's true in spades for the male Slink body. I don't know if the brand can leverage its technological advantage. If Signature or Belliza (or, god help us, "Legacy") now try to charge for a BoM-compatible upgrade, they'll commit commercial suicide in a spectacular fashion. But this is certainly not the first time Slink has stolen the march on other brands: at least for the male body, it supported Materials many months before the competition. It was difficult to use, though, and I'm not sure how many of us even took advantage of it, and there wasn't much hype about the feature.

(When I think about it, though, I'm not sure why I'm feeling any "loyalty" to a mesh body that, like its competition, is needlessly, mindlessly, shamelessly no-mod. I've given up on trying to explain to these creators that their quaint superstitions are less than charming.)

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2 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

If Signature or Belliza (or, god help us, "Legacy") now try to charge for a BoM-compatible upgrade, they'll commit commercial suicide in a spectacular fashion.

Really good point. We all owe Slink thanks, possibly, for ensuring that other body makers will have to provide free updates, rather than expensive new ones.

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1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I am very fond of Slink, for lots of reasons -- I'm not surprised to hear that they are, as you say, the "responsible" brand. I wonder, though, how much leverage they'd actually get from marketing that element? Again, the appeal of that depends upon a certain degree of altruistic feeling on the part of the consumers, and mostly I think that doesn't play a big role in consumer purchases. But maybe I should have more faith.

The other problem with Slink right now is that the Physique body is rapidly -- like, really noticeably within the past few months -- no longer being supported by clothing creators. I have no intention of dumping Physique (and I don't actually like Hourglass, at all, so that's not an option for me), but it's becoming increasingly clear that I may have to supplement it with Maitreya or Belleza. I lean towards the latter, in part because I really dislike the way that the Lara is coming to monopolize everything. But, honestly, I'm starting to think that Maitreya may end up being the last one standing.

  • We've updated our body, it's now less resource-heavy!
  • We've updated our body, it's now less resource-heavy; but you'll have to throw away 80% of your appliers!

It's easy to be altruistic in Situation A; Situation B less so.

Also I swapped from Physique to Maitreya about a year ago for similar reasons, so let me know if there's anything I can do to help with that transition, if/when you want to make the swap.

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2 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

we're expected to dump large portions of our inventory for the ideological purity of a handful of forum posters

I didn't dump inventory when mesh bodies hit the grid. I won't be dumping inventory when BoM fully hits. Others may not have a problem with wasting money, I do. Wasting money, food and resources are all problems for me.

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19 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:
  • We've updated our body, it's now less resource-heavy!
  • We've updated our body, it's now less resource-heavy; but you'll have to throw away 80% of your appliers!

It's easy to be altruistic in Situation A; Situation B less so.

Also I swapped from Physique to Maitreya about a year ago for similar reasons, so let me know if there's anything I can do to help with that transition, if/when you want to make the swap.

Adoption is going to be sloooooooooow and uneven.

One way things might get sped up a bit is if mesh body makers stop supporting their old bodies. But what will really, finally, spur a change over is the loss of new content for the old format.

But even that . . . creators don't typically withdraw old content that is out-of-date, after all. And the only type of new content that will not be compatible with the older onion-layer bodies will be alpha layers (the incompatibility of which can mostly be handled by alpha cuts, I suspect) and appliers. Maybe when new skins are available only in system layers?

There will be some who will be excited to adopt BoM because it will solve some alpha glitch problems, and allow for more layers than currently available, that's not going to be a factor for most, I think. What we're going to end up with, for some time to come, is a mix of three different kinds of body, and hence three different kinds of problems to be dealt with by those who provide support: old system avatars, onion-layered mesh bodies, and the new BoM mesh bodies.

It's going to be a bit of a mess.

 

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4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It's going to be a bit of a mess.

LL has always been on the messy side. I don't see that changing much. It's always been hit or miss. We've been lucky no one has sunk the battleship yet.

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1 hour ago, AyelaNewLife said:
  • We've updated our body, it's now less resource-heavy; but you'll have to throw away 80% of your appliers!

Honestly, the day I can throw away 100% of my appliers cannot come soon enough

It's not as if I have to trash any existing outfits. I just don't have to use those gawdawful appliers ever again. 

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I’ve spent waaayyyy too much money on appliers to trash them. I’m in no rush to adopt BOM. 

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49 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Adoption is going to be sloooooooooow and uneven.

One way things might get sped up a bit is if mesh body makers stop supporting their old bodies. But what will really, finally, spur a change over is the loss of new content for the old format.

But even that . . . creators don't typically withdraw old content that is out-of-date, after all. And the only type of new content that will not be compatible with the older onion-layer bodies will be alpha layers (the incompatibility of which can mostly be handled by alpha cuts, I suspect) and appliers. Maybe when new skins are available only in system layers?

There will be some who will be excited to adopt BoM because it will solve some alpha glitch problems, and allow for more layers than currently available, that's not going to be a factor for most, I think. What we're going to end up with, for some time to come, is a mix of three different kinds of body, and hence three different kinds of problems to be dealt with by those who provide support: old system avatars, onion-layered mesh bodies, and the new BoM mesh bodies.

It's going to be a bit of a mess.

Here's the kicker: there's an omega applier that grants any omega-compatible mesh body most of the features of BoM. Why would you use 'upgrade' that makes most of your appliers obsolete, when you can have the best of both worlds with the older body model and an omega applier? The only thing you're lacking is alpha layer functionality; but the HUD-driven alpha cut system you'd have to use is compatible with everything you own, rather than making a chunk of your clothing obsolete.

The smart thing to do would be for creators to release an "applier-friendly" and a "low-lag" version of their bodies, one with onion layers and one without. Yes, that means you will get a large chunk of the population that will walk around with three unused applier layers, but that's going to happen anyway. And they're probably wearing mesh clothing with 1024x1024 textures for buttons, sitting on a chair with 1024x1024 textures for the nails in the chair leg, so it's not like it will actually make a noticeable difference to performance.

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21 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Here's the kicker: there's an omega applier that grants any omega-compatible mesh body most of the features of BoM. Why would you use 'upgrade' that makes most of your appliers obsolete, when you can have the best of both worlds with the older body model and an omega applier? The only thing you're lacking is alpha layer functionality; but the HUD-driven alpha cut system you'd have to use is compatible with everything you own, rather than making a chunk of your clothing obsolete.

The smart thing to do would be for creators to release an "applier-friendly" and a "low-lag" version of their bodies, one with onion layers and one without. Yes, that means you will get a large chunk of the population that will walk around with three unused applier layers, but that's going to happen anyway. And they're probably wearing mesh clothing with 1024x1024 textures for buttons, sitting on a chair with 1024x1024 textures for the nails in the chair leg, so it's not like it will actually make a noticeable difference to performance.

That's what Slink did. They still provide the layered avatars in the same box (as "classic"), leaving the choice to the user. The only difference is you don't get BoM with the classic avatars, which is a good nudge to get people to switch.

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31 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

The smart thing to do would be for creators to release an "applier-friendly" and a "low-lag" version of their bodies, one with onion layers and one without. 

In other words, exactly what Slink just did.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

In other words, exactly what Slink just did.

Minus the part that makes BoM work, yes.

Edit: Scratch that, they don't include the older body at all. You either keep hold of your old copy, or your stuck with the new.

Edited by AyelaNewLife
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Just now, AyelaNewLife said:

Minus the part that makes BoM work, yes.

You can make a traditional Slink body use BOM by sending the appropriate "magic" textures to it with an applier like you can with almost any mesh body.

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5 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Minus the part that makes BoM work, yes.

Edit: Scratch that, they don't include the older body at all. You either keep hold of your old copy, or your stuck with the new.

Look harder. It's there.

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3 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

You can make a traditional Slink body use BOM by sending the appropriate "magic" textures to it with an applier like you can with almost any mesh body.

Here's the question, though.

As I said, one of the things holding me back from throwing myself into BoM is the fact that I'd need to replace not only a sizable collection of applier clothing, but also, of course, my skin. And the latter gets complicated because I'd need to find one that matches my head.

BUT . . . I wonder if one can use the "experimental" Omega applier to apply my skin (and potentially applier clothing) to the new Redux body? If so (and I suspect not), I wouldn't need to replace my current appliers at all.

 I asked in The Skinnery group chat whether they were planning to issue "updates" for current applier skins in system layer format. I got a few cries of dismay from group members, but nothing from The Skinnery itself. It will be interesting to see which makers update appliers for free, and which expect us to buy anew.

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1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Here's the question, though.

As I said, one of the things holding me back from throwing myself into BoM is the fact that I'd need to replace not only a sizable collection of applier clothing, but also, of course, my skin. And the latter gets complicated because I'd need to find one that matches my head.

BUT . . . I wonder if one can use the "experimental" Omega applier to apply my skin (and potentially applier clothing) to the new Redux body? If so (and I suspect not), I wouldn't need to replace my current appliers at all.

 

You might be able to apply your skin but not clothing because there's only one possible layer. Even if you applied a skin to the Redux body it would be impossible to hide any of it because it doesn't have alpha cuts.

Which is why *sigh* they are also still distributing the original body with the new body.

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1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

A separate folder that the installer should have given you.

It didn't, and neither did my Hourglass Bundle redelivery. The Physique body-only installer just gave me that folder, the bundle gave me a near-identical main folder and a separate one for the asymmetry harness.

(Side note: that asymmetry harness is a fantastic idea, definite plus points for that!)

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2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Which is why *sigh* they are also still distributing the original body with the new body.

And which is why I won't be making the switch to BoM anytime soon. Reinvesting in all of the things for which I currently own appliers will cost many thousands of Lindens. I think I'll wait a bit.

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39 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

As I said, one of the things holding me back from throwing myself into BoM is the fact that I'd need to replace not only a sizable collection of applier clothing, but also, of course, my skin.

This is the deal breaker for me at the moment.  I will "play" with BOM for knowledge's sake but until I can get my current mesh skin's quality as a system layer, I ain't going baked.

 

I kind of wonder now ... will skin makers still need to alter the UV map for Catwa vs Genus, etc. or will the one system layer be enough for everyone?

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Am I one the few who really don't care about this BoM thing in slightest and is gonna carry on her merry catnip snorting ways? :D 

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