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Qie Niangao

Where's my free Bakes-on-Mesh avatar update?

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What does someone with no BOM viewer see ?  How are clothing designers going to implement, as mesh bodies are not mod, right? Honestly, just when I learn how to use appliers along comes another fork in my creativity.. I give up.

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1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

The feature is now officially available.

It's not as if it suddenly appeared out of thin air -- it's been expected for a long, long time.

So why isn't there content, like, now? Or do I just have the wrong Mesh avatar?

Someone posted today that BOM support  is not in the official Linden Viewer yet -- as in she was not asked to update her Linden viewer and her BOM test looke OH SO AWFUL .  

 

I don't know any creators personally that were terribly excited about BOM so maybe not many have been working frantically behind the scenes for the last year and a half or whatever :D.     I think that lightening the server load is a very good thing, but I am questioning how many folks will "upgrade" if there is a hefty price tag that goes along with the "improvement" . I won't feel the need until  A. Firestorm has a BOM viewer where I can still ignore EEP (as long as possible LOL) and B. I have people sending me BOM products to blog. Right now that doesn't look too likely.  

 

I am waiting to see what Maitreya is going to do. That should tell us A LOT!!! since they have the biggest piece of the pie.  

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

What does someone with no BOM viewer see ? 

Something like this

20190826_001.thumb.jpg.f8249e7281ffe49222bd8a66deebec17.jpg

 

Oh, if you have a BOM it would look like:

2019-08-17_003.thumb.jpg.22a737cda447a0cdcc639e57649bead1.jpg

 

Edited by Rhonda Huntress
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I'm on FS 5.1.7 still ... avatars look fine to me. 

What I want to know is am I going to have to mess with learning this BoM stuff or can I just go about my merry little way as I am and not change anything?

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I have invested heavily in making appliers, I'm still working on pushing full content out and opening up and this BOM,  comes along, I knew it was a thing, but I'm looking at it and just not going to support it,  I'll stick to the applier body systems we have.

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2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

can I just go about my merry little way as I am and not change anything?

This seems to be your best choice for the moment anyway.  Maybe even your only choice.

 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I'm on FS 5.1.7 still ... avatars look fine to me. 

What I want to know is am I going to have to mess with learning this BoM stuff or can I just go about my merry little way as I am and not change anything?

Well, nothing really terribly drastic you gotta learn, it's the new, now being able to use the old, IE, skin, eyes, hair, clothing layers, tattoo layers ,alpha layers, etc.

So, a lot of stuff you might have as a dozen different overlaying mesh, can now all be worn as layerables like we used to do before mesh bodies took over. So much less reliance on onion layers. Not to say there still aren't some uses for the onions, but ya, just won't need em as much anymore.

Edited by Digit Gears
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24 minutes ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

This seems to be your best choice for the moment anyway.  Maybe even your only choice.

 

Well... I do know that next FS release I'm going to have to update because this version is the next in line to be blocked so my question still stands. For now.

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14 minutes ago, Digit Gears said:

Well, nothing really terribly drastic you gotta learn, it's the new, now being able to use the old, IE, skin, eyes, hair, clothing layers, tattoo layers ,alpha layers, etc.

So, a lot of stuff you might have as a dozen different overlaying mesh, can now all be worn as layerables like we used to do before mesh bodies took over. So much less reliance on onion layers. Not to say there still aren't some uses for the onions, but ya, just won't need em as much anymore.

I know what BoM is... I just want to know if it's going to be something I have no choice in dealing with.

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Just now, Selene Gregoire said:

I know what BoM is... I just want to know if it's going to be something I have no choice in dealing with.

Ah well I mean, I guess that'll depend on the creators and market.

We didn't get much of a choice in not dealing with lots of things added to SL over time by Lindens and content creators, but BoM I'd argue would be more of the more beneficial ones to deal with in the long run.

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31 minutes ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

I have invested heavily in making appliers, I'm still working on pushing full content out and opening up and this BOM,  comes along, I knew it was a thing, but I'm looking at it and just not going to support it,  I'll stick to the applier body systems we have.

I have very little in the way of appliers. I tend to avoid clothing that uses them. Not that I mind using them, I just don't have much in the way of use for them. A shirt under a jacket that didn't come with a shirt and is cut too low in front for my taste, some colored leggings, tintable undies... that's about it.

I am kind of looking forward to being able to wear some of my older stuff that is all layers or partial layers/partial mesh. LIke a couple of dresses from PixelDolls.

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4 minutes ago, Digit Gears said:

Ah well I mean, I guess that'll depend on the creators and market.

We didn't get much of a choice in not dealing with lots of things added to SL over time by Lindens and content creators, but BoM I'd argue would be more of the more beneficial ones to deal with in the long run.

I've seen a lot added since 2004. We'll see.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I have very little in the way of appliers. I tend to avoid clothing that uses them. Not that I mind using them, I just don't have much in the way of use for them. A shirt under a jacket that didn't come with a shirt and is cut too low in front for my taste, some colored leggings, tintable undies... that's about it.

I am kind of looking forward to being able to wear some of my older stuff that is all layers or partial layers/partial mesh. LIke a couple of dresses from PixelDolls.

oh I understand that fully, but from my understanding too people will need the textures from me?  oh no, that is never going to happen, I am not putting my textures into a box and saying "here you go, you can use these to put on your bom body".  I know, I know, I sound a bit paranoid on it, but my hard work is never going to be put into a box and said have at it,  and I'm not talking full perm textures either.  I want no one having copies of my works like that.   appliers are all I will be doing until my hand is forced.

 

edit: I run my store off my alt, I know some one is going to go look at my marketplace and go "huh" 

Edited by bigmoe Whitfield

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14 minutes ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

oh I understand that fully, but from my understanding too people will need the textures from me?  oh no, that is never going to happen, I am not putting my textures into a box and saying "here you go, you can use these to put on your bom body".  I know, I know, I sound a bit paranoid on it, but my hard work is never going to be put into a box and said have at it,  and I'm not talking full perm textures either.  I want no one having copies of my works like that.   appliers are all I will be doing until my hand is forced.

 

edit: I run my store off my alt, I know some one is going to go look at my marketplace and go "huh" 

I get you. Any textures of mine that I pass on are always no trans. If I bought them in SL they are no trans and possibly no mod depending on the license. No trans is sufficient to keep them from being able to save it to their hard drive unless they use another well known method I won't say in case they don't know. I'm not going to make it easy for them, that's for sure.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I'm on FS 5.1.7 still ... avatars look fine to me. 

What I want to know is am I going to have to mess with learning this BoM stuff or can I just go about my merry little way as I am and not change anything?

As to your own body, eventually, Maitreya and the others will put out a body update to handle the BoM stuff. Until then, if you want, then you can use an Omega applier to go ahead and use some of your old System stuff.  I'd probably hold off on that though if you are out and about a lot since most other people will see your strange if you are using/wearing BoM.

Eventually, when enough viewers support it, then more people will use it.  I'll likely wait until most third party viewers support it so that I don't look like a clown to most people.  Once folks start using BoM, if you aren't upgraded to a viewer that supports it, you'll see people as the odd textured way that Rhonda posted above.  Kind of like now if you just happen to log in with an old non-Bento viewer and see Bento animations - their arms and such look like weird blocks or something - so lots of odd funny looking people.  

Not sure if that is what you were actually wanting to know or not.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell

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Do we need a new version of a mesh body to be able to pop an older systems dress on? Are they out?

How do alpha layers fit in?

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, VivianWord said:

Do we need a new version of a mesh body to be able to pop an older systems dress on? Are they out?

How do alpha layers fit in?

Eventually, we'll get updated mesh bodies from the makers, but you can play with it now. You can use an experimental Omega applier.  Read this extremely detailed helpful comment:

 

Edited by LittleMe Jewell

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1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

As to your own body, eventually, Maitreya and the others will put out a body update to handle the BoM stuff. Until then, if you want, then you can use an Omega applier to go ahead and use some of your old System stuff.  I'd probably hold off on that though if you are out and about a lot since most other people will see your strange if you are using/wearing BoM.

Eventually, when enough viewers support it, then more people will use it.  I'll likely wait until most third party viewers support it so that I don't look like a clown to most people.  Once folks start using BoM, if you aren't upgraded to a viewer that supports it, you'll see people as the odd textured way that Rhonda posted above.  Kind of like now if you just happen to log in with an old non-Bento viewer and see Bento animations - their arms and such look like weird blocks or something.  

Not sure if that is what you were actually wanting to know or not.

I can wait. So what you're saying is at some point I'll have to update the Lara when Maitreya comes out with BoM, correct? Which is fine. As long as I have a choice as to whether I use it or not. Some days I may want to, others days I may not. Kind of like how we now have a choice between the mesh body and the system body. 

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Just now, Selene Gregoire said:

I can wait. So what you're saying is at some point I'll have to update the Lara when Maitreya comes out with BoM, correct? Which is fine. As long as I have a choice as to whether I use it or not. Some days I may want to, others days I may not. Kind of like how we now have a choice between the mesh body and the system body. 

Updating to the newer body will probably be optional, at least for a while.  When the update comes out, it will handle the BoM more natively, rather than via that extra experimental applier. The native Maitreyea BoM support will do things like apply to fingers and toes properly, which current Omega doesn't do well. 

You will also have to eventually update to a BoM supported viewer if you want to see people properly.  If I recall, you like to stick with the older Firestorm versions for as long as you can.  That is one thing that will impact how you see others.  There next release will have full BoM support to let you see folks using BoM correctly.  As more and more people use BoM, you'll want to upgrade to that viewer so you will render them correctly.

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1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Updating to the newer body will probably be optional, at least for a while.  When the update comes out, it will handle the BoM more natively, rather than via that extra experimental applier. The native Maitreyea BoM support will do things like apply to fingers and toes properly, which current Omega doesn't do well. 

You will also have to eventually update to a BoM supported viewer if you want to see people properly.  If I recall, you like to stick with the older Firestorm versions for as long as you can.  That is one thing that will impact how you see others.  There next release will have full BoM support to let you see folks using BoM correctly.  As more and more people use BoM, you'll want to upgrade to that viewer so you will render them correctly.

Um... I don't use Omega as far as I know... I've never gotten the system or whatever. 

Sometimes I do stick with the older versions as long as I can, sometimes not. Depends on the reason for updating. I'm more of a version skipper. Some programs I skip odd numbered versions, others the even numbered. I seem to have fewer problems than most that way.

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Noting that it took about a year for mesh to be "accepted" and "mainstream" when it was introduced to the grid. That was partly because Firestorm (then likely Phoenix? Not sure) could not upate their viewer until after it became official in the LL viewer. Now as I understand it there is a better pipeline method so it probably won't be THAT long until FS and other viewers update. 

 

Eventually we will all be on a BOM viewers because they will likely all BE BOM viewers LOL.   How fast acceptance will be is another story. If there aren't that many creators making system layer type clothing and such, I can't see it being a jump on the bandwagon type thing. Happy to be wrong of course; I may just hang out with folks that don't care about it much.  Most old items (five or more years ago) are much lower quality technically than the texture clothes we have now so I am not at all sad that I deleted all those files long, long LONG ago :D. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I'm not sure if this will help, but what the heck, here it is anyway:

image.thumb.png.d6587ffcf430be5551663de2215f3033.png         image.thumb.png.8265d67b25efd59670bb1d43d198ad21.png  

On the left is a snapshot taken using a non-BoM viewer, on the right, one taken with the BoM viewer. This is a system avatar: I'm not wearing a mesh body. I'm wearing a skin, two tattoo layers, a hair base, an alpha layer for my boots, and undershirt, underpants and socks clothing layers. I'm also wearing mesh eyes, and an alpha layer that hides my system eyes.

Instead of a mesh avatar I'm wearing a mesh panel above me which has has eight faces, to which I've applied (left to right, top to bottom) the BAKED_HEAD, BAKED_UPPER, BAKED_LOWER, BAKED_EYES, BAKED_SKIRT, BAKED_HAIR, IMG_USE_BAKED_LEFTARM and IMG_USE_BAKED_LEFTLEG system textures using the build editor (in the texture picker there's now three radio buttons to select the texture source: Inventory, Local and Bakes: selecting bakes lets you select the baked texture from a drop-down box).

In the left-hand, non-BoM, image the baked textures are showing as the placeholder textures that you'll see in a non-BoM viewer.

In the right-hand, BoM, image you can see the baked textures for my head, upper and lower body. These would normally go on the corresponding parts of a mesh body. The baked eye texture is transparent because of the alpha layer I'm wearing to hide my system eyes. The skirt texture is grey because I'm not wearing a system skirt. The baked hair texture is transparent because the hair base I'm wearing uses a transparent texture. The left arm and leg textures are grey because I'm not using those either. You can see that the parts of my avatar that have had the system layers applied are now hidden. This is done automatically when the equivalent baked textures are applied to a mesh.

If you can imagine replacing the panel above my head with a mesh body with the baked textures applied, you should be able to see how this all works.

Nothing has been changed between the two snapshots, except the viewer used to take them.

Edited by KT Kingsley

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1 hour ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

oh I understand that fully, but from my understanding too people will need the textures from me? 

 

Your understanding is incorrect.

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