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10 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Why not? 

Because, though voice or even face-to-face will certify my gender, there's not much he can do to ascertain my true intentions.

But this isn't unique to the internet. I am no less nefarious in person.

If we're all onions, the internet (and the anonymity it affords) is not all the layers.

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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/me holds up an out-facing palm in the universal sign of "STOP!!!" ~runs to refill popcorn bucket, returns and plops down again~ Okay, please proceed!

Edited by Alyona Su

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44 minutes ago, Haselden said:

That doesn't really fix the issue and I doubt there's really a solution just yet for cat-fishing. Just like america's busted food industry of hidden ingredients. Just gotta give it time for someone to think of something.

Saw a news piece yesterday about a young man in Britain who went deaf and blind from eating nothing but a fast food diet for ten years.  So don't go pointing your finger at America, OK?  Stupid people are everywhere.  See?

...hands you a mirror and stalks off muttering.

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9 minutes ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

Yeah, it's all been a very compelling argument against my "I'm the weird one" position.

I still think your position is unassailable, Rhonda.

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I know “catfishing” has been a catch-all term for “this person tricked me into thinking they’re someone they’re not! They’re a big meanie.” So I’m going to break down why it doesn’t apply to SL. (I’m only doing this because I have 15 minutes before I get off of work. That’s 15 mins to kill)

First, people have been lying about how they look to potential suitors since we’ve had the ability to scan and upload photos. At best it was someone misrepresenting their weight or age. At worse...we’ll we've all seen to catch a predator.

Fast forward to catfish the movie. It was more a mental health movie, but somehow it got marketed as “OMG people lie about who they are on the internet!!!!!” If you watch the movie, he knew she was lying to him from the beginning, because what she was telling him was whacked out.

Then we get Catfish the show, which moved completely away from the mental health aspect straight for the Jerry Springer. A couple of things about Catfish. Usually the person who is doing the catfishing contacts them. It’s all staged.

What does this all have to do with SL? You’re in a virtual environment where nobody looks exactly like themselves. It’s an accepted norm of the environment. It’s not misrepresenting yourself, if the norm is to not be yourself. It’s not a catfish, some people are just taking things a little too seriously.

 

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1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Because, though voice or even face-to-face will certify my gender, there's not much he can do to ascertain my true intentions.

But this isn't unique to the internet.

So what's his problem? What's the issue exactly? What does he require that he can't get from an escort with a very genuine-sounding voice, or an RL sex chatline? 

 

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19 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

What does this all have to do with SL? You’re in a virtual environment where nobody looks exactly like themselves. It’s an accepted norm of the environment. It’s not misrepresenting yourself, if the norm is to not be yourself. 

It just boggles my mind, endlessly, that so many people come on to SL and fail to grasp this. We are all here in SL for a reason, and it's generally because it's not RL. We want to hide/have experiences yet not have to leave the room/be or look like something we aren't. Why are so many people incapable of understanding that this is exactly what it's like for everyone else too, and that you accept this by using the medium because it's in its very nature? Why do they not grasp that if you want to be sure of someone's RL gender, the place to look is in RL, and not the overtly make-believe digital world that literally sells itself as "imagination"? And why would this even bother you if the service you want - in this case, dirty talk with someone you know to be an RL woman - is so freely and easily available elsewhere that Google has to put a filter on it for those who aren't interested?

I don't understand it. I just can't imagine that kind of thought process. No wonder he's in SL. He probably can't leave the house. Such a weapon-level sense of entitlement won't fit through the door and requires its own bus pass.

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To be fair, the anonymity of the internet in general and SL in particular  has vastly expanded our ability to deceive each other and ourselves, and to survive, tolerate, or even appreciate that deception. The more space we have to do this, the more space there is for trouble. Not everyone feels comfortable navigating this vast expanse.

Deception isn't the right word to describe the entirety of what goes on here, or perhaps even much of it. Still, some people will see it that way.

How many of you think that I'm not actually a little devil?

See? Gotcha!

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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2 hours ago, Haselden said:

Or just comparing Cat-fishers on SL to American food companies that are selling bad products. The issue is the customer just doesn't know what they're really buying. =3 

Though, I guess you could call a lot of Fast Food companies as well cat fisher to. For example then McDonald french fries been getting a closer look at.

Are the neckbeard incels who cry themselves to sleep at night while clutching their Sargon of Akkad waifu bodypillows after a long day of looking for love in SL behind a Jason Momoa avatar catfishing too?

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24 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

Are the neckbeard incels who cry themselves to sleep at night while clutching their Sargon of Akkad waifu bodypillows after a long day of looking for love in SL behind a Jason Momoa avatar catfishing too?

That is sublime.

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6 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Such a weapon-level sense of entitlement won't fit through the door and requires its own bus pass.

Well, that's the issue, innit? If I come here to explore my imagination, shouldn't I allow or even encourage the same in others? What do I gain by presuming everyone's out to take advantage of me? I think I have sufficient tools (technical, analytical, emotional) to protect myself, and it's a brighter world if sit back and watch the rest of you fully explore the playground, too. Nobody forces me to invest more than I should risk here. If I do, that's on me.

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1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:

...Why do they not grasp that if you want to be sure of someone's RL gender, the place to look is in RL, and not the overtly make-believe digital world that literally sells itself as "imagination"? ...

Actually, you can't even be sure in RL.  This is why there are so many trans people getting murdered.  Their date finds out they aren't "really" what they seemed to be, and goes into a homophobic rage.

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1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:

It just boggles my mind, endlessly, that so many people come on to SL and fail to grasp this. We are all here in SL for a reason, and it's generally because it's not RL. We want to hide/have experiences yet not have to leave the room/be or look like something we aren't. Why are so many people incapable of understanding that this is exactly what it's like for everyone else too, and that you accept this by using the medium because it's in its very nature? Why do they not grasp that if you want to be sure of someone's RL gender, the place to look is in RL, and not the overtly make-believe digital world that literally sells itself as "imagination"? And why would this even bother you if the service you want - in this case, dirty talk with someone you know to be an RL woman - is so freely and easily available elsewhere that Google has to put a filter on it for those who aren't interested?

I don't understand it. I just can't imagine that kind of thought process. No wonder he's in SL. He probably can't leave the house. Such a weapon-level sense of entitlement won't fit through the door and requires its own bus pass.

There's really no answer, because the answer, no matter what or how someone says it will be unsatisfying.

There's an episode of Black Mirror called "Striking Vipers" that deals with this subject and it touches on everything everybody dances around when this comes up in a big way. The first thing I thought of when I was watching it was: That's Second Life! I won't spoil it though, it's really worth a watch. It leaves you feeling a little uneasy all the way through and the ending doesn't really come to a resolution or answer anything, but it brings everything up. Homosexuality? is it really? Which one of them is? Why are they doing it? Is it cheating?

All kinds of stuff comes up and it's a little uncomfortable to watch on many levels. That's what makes it so good though.

Anyway, people want to verify to avoid that feeling. Its a weird feeling. It's easier to verify and get it out of the way than to deal with the awkwardness of that situation, because it raises all kinds of questions that there are no easy answers to. So it gets condensed down into "R u male or female in RL? Do you voice? lol"

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20 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

There's an episode of Black Mirror called "Striking Vipers" that deals with this subject and it touches on everything everybody dances around when this comes up in a big way. The first thing I thought of when I was watching it was: That's Second Life! I won't spoil it though, it's really worth a watch. It leaves you feeling a little uneasy all the way through and the ending doesn't really come to a resolution or answer anything, but it brings everything up. Homosexuality? is it really? Which one of them is? Why are they doing it? Is it cheating?

I remember that episode, it was interesting. I also thought there were parallels with SL. 

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4 hours ago, janetosilio said:

First, people have been lying about how they look to potential suitors since .......

........... since Anne of Cleves sent back a portrait of herself to Henry VIII centuries ago that was more than generously flattering and sufficiently unrealistic for Henry to be unable to consummate the marriage for months after meeting her face to face. Or, ever.

Or, well, that's his excuse and he stuck to it.

Carry on.

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3 hours ago, Clarrellae said:

........... since Anne of Cleves sent back a portrait of herself to Henry VIII centuries ago that was more than generously flattering and sufficiently unrealistic for Henry to be unable to consummate the marriage for months after meeting her face to face. Or, ever.

Or, well, that's his excuse and he stuck to it.

Carry on.

it wasn't a selfie - blame Holbein for knowing how to keep his head 

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Given that Holbein was under strict instructions to paint a realistic portrait and kept both his head and his job, and that contemporary accounts describe Anne of Cleves as being quite nice to look at, it's more likely that Henry just decided later that he didn't like her. She was attractive enough for him to kiss when they met, but as he was disguised, she didn't recognise him and was more interested in what was happening outside the window. He was also pretty physically unpleasant himself by that point.

So much depends on being born in the right time and place. If Henry VIII were born in poverty today, he'd be that tedious prat who gropes you in the bar then decides you're ugly after you tell him to leave you alone. Then he'd go home and murder his wife.

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11 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:
13 hours ago, janetosilio said:

we’ll we've all seen to catch a predator.

Sorry nope, not we. Reality tv is not my cuppa.

Leave us apex predators alone!

D9685FBB-E67B-4CFD-8A10-387000617C69.jpeg

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