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Bakes On Mesh - Releasing Soon!

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, NiranV Dean said:

You seem under the impression that BOM isn't good just because its doing a minimal improvement.

Nope, I am under the impression that BoM *is just* a minimal improvement.  That is what I have been saying all along.  I believe I even wrote words to that effect here:

11 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Obviously if a person is willing to ditch all of their appliers and stick to BoM only, generally do heavily layer their body/face textures and/or mostly wear applier clothing, have low amounts of VRAM and a slow internet connection then they are probably going to see some benefits on their own avatar.

So given that, nothing for me to get excited about which brings me full circle to my original post in this topic.

Lastly, I don't believe I said anything about it being bad, lemme check, nope, didn't, so where ever you got that from, it wasn't from what I actually said.

Edited by Gabriele Graves
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Like any other improvement in any game, BOM will face people who think is the best thing ever made and people with " meh"..overall will give you, posibly, a better control over your mesh body, at least for people with texturing skill, so we can espect a lot of tattoos, freckles, dimples, moles, eyeliners to play with.And , of course, some free video memory on our grafic cards ( for some people that wasn't the problem at all- for some was a big deal)

when animesh was released, had same history.  i saw lot of sims / persons acompanied by zillions of dancing companions, plus , of course, the slave/ sexdoll industry.

and the bad side.. land impact.Animesh was not for all. A regular plot , 1024, canot support more than 1-2 animesh items , (plus your house, the sexbed and all that furniture).

For me , i'll just wait to see how BOM will impact the mesh bodies and skin industry . I have only few good old skins in my inventory, and i am not a very big fan of tattoos.As for the lag from onion bodies and big textures loading time,my sl experience is decent, so i am not in 'wow'  side,also  not in "meh' side too. not in " i wish to..." section

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4 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Lastly, I don't believe I said anything about it being bad, lemme check, nope, didn't, so where ever you got that from, it wasn't from what I actually said.

Right here.

On 8/24/2019 at 3:02 AM, Gabriele Graves said:

I am not enthusiastic at all.  At best it will have little immediate impact that I care about and at worst it could break all of my purchased appliers.  I don't have a great deal of confidence that breakage will not occur.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

 

Right here.

No it doesn't, you are either imagining it or hallucinating it.  I expressed a concern that existing content *could* (not would, but could) break when it is introduced.  That quote wasn't a comment about the BoM functionality at all other than it is code is being introduced/changed and so existing functionality could break.  Shame on you that you are again trying to attribute words to me that I am not writing.  You are beating a dead horse here, stop being so pathetic and grow up.

Edited by Gabriele Graves
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18 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

No it doesn't, you are either imagining it or hallucinating it.  I expressed a concern that existing content *could* (not would, but could) break when it is introduced.  That quote wasn't a comment about the BoM functionality at all other than it is code is being introduced/changed and so existing functionality could break.  Shame on you that you are again trying to attribute words to me that I am not writing.  You are beating a dead horse here, stop being so pathetic and grow up.

If the code that "is being" introduced (which, by the way, has been running on the main grid servers, baking service and project viewer for months) is supposed to possibly break existing functionality, how is that not a comment about the BoM functionality?

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

If the code that "is being" introduced (which, by the way, has been running on the main grid servers, baking service and project viewer for months) is supposed to possibly break existing functionality, how is that not a comment about the BoM functionality?

I have already tried to explain to you so if you don't understand by now then it will do no good explaining it again.  Go find someone else to harass.

Edited by Gabriele Graves

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11 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

You are beating a dead horse here

Some people just can't help, but to protect their favorite toy (game/feature/company) at all cost, they are often known as "white knights" in the community. On the other comment in this thread about some other concerns, like BoM not having materials and as far as I know not even having some plans to add them anytime soon (and we all know, that by LL standards soon is 1-2 years, so yeah, materials are not happening for a long time, if ever) we got a very mature reply below.

On 8/24/2019 at 2:28 PM, Theresa Tennyson said:

It also doesn't wash your car or stay crunchy in milk.

---

As for myself, I already said in the past - no materials = not interested. I can't quite remember if we had materials already when I just started with SL in 2012 or not, but in 2014 we already had them. So now after many years we're getting the downgrade without materials, which will make it useful only for stuff like tattoos and makeup. And even that is not fully, lately various body shine appliers got quite popular and those are all based on materials. Sorry, can't help and to be excited about getting feature that was worked on for years that is just for makeup and tattoos. I mean, yeah, it's not bad, yay for whoever might save a couple FPS here and there, but all that development time that went into it. *shrugs*

And because (partially at least) of the lack of materials, onions are not going anywhere, at best I can see mesh body creators including 2 copies of their bodies into the pack after/if they will update them; one with all the extra layers and one without. Alpha cuts through hud are also here to stay I believe, no one is going to update all their old releases to "old school alphas" and I highly doubt updated bodies won't have alpha cuts/hud either, since it'll make those thousands of thousands clothes from 2014/2015 (when most of the current mesh bodies were released) to now, entirely useless to your average SL user, which won't (and can't) make own alpha for them.

I also very much prefer the HUD approach when it comes to makeup and alphas myself. Although I'm not sure if makeup via BoM can be done through HUDs with picture or not. But if not... no thanks, I'd rather wear the HUD that contains 5 to 25+ makeup options with pictures, than try to remember "the hell is that *Brandname_Makeupname_color* thing or which exactly from that list/folder was the one I wanted to put on now.

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3 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

I also very much prefer the HUD approach when it comes to makeup and alphas myself. Although I'm not sure if makeup via BoM can be done through HUDs with picture or not. But if not... no thanks, I'd rather wear the HUD that contains 5 to 25+ makeup options with pictures, than try to remember "the hell is that *Brandname_Makeupname_color* thing or which exactly from that list/folder was the one I wanted to put on now.

This is a concerning issue.  Folders of a zillion lipstick system layers is my nightmare.

Also... as far as I know, you cannot control the opacity of a system layer, you can tint...but that is it, and that is only if a designer releases them as modify.

And then there is the material issue.... a huge bummer that it is actually still the issue that it is.

I do love that BoM can be layered without having to deal with the transparency sorting situation we've had for so long.   But really, it seems we are exchanging a lot for that one major benefit.   I am not particularly excited about it, and haven't been for a while because of what seems we will be losing. 

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I believe that soon, BOM will be the default option for everyone. Like Bento. New heads and bodies will be released (hopefully updated), people will get used it and eeveryone will forget appliers. Well, that is what I think about it. I see that being so much easier for everyone - I cant wait to get rid of alpha cuts :P 

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3 minutes ago, Tarani Tempest said:

This is a concerning issue.  Folders of a zillion lipstick system layers is my nightmare.

Also... as far as I know, you cannot control the opacity of a system layer, you can tint...but that is it, and that is only if a designer releases them as modify.

And then there is the material issue.... a huge bummer that it is actually still the issue that it is.

I do love that BoM can be layered without having to deal with the transparency sorting situation we've had for so long.   But really, it seems we are exchanging a lot for that one major benefit.   I am not particularly excited about it, and haven't been for a while because of what seems we will be losing. 

I think people will primarily use it for skin and tattoo layers, maybe eyebrows and hairbases. I know, I won't use it for everything, only things that are on my body. Not makeup.

 

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27 minutes ago, Cesartje said:

I believe that soon, BOM will be the default option for everyone. Like Bento. New heads and bodies will be released (hopefully updated), people will get used it and eeveryone will forget appliers. Well, that is what I think about it. I see that being so much easier for everyone - I cant wait to get rid of alpha cuts :P 

Do really you think all the major mesh head/body creators are going to offer BoM as a free/optional upgrade/update and not as a new/more expensive product to further capitalize on?

Why would alpha cuts be going away? You think compensating with texture resolution at 1024x1024 is high enough to not have jagged/blurry alpha edges that look like utter crap at any distance? Pixels do not have the precision of mesh vertices.

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4 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Do really you think all the major mesh head/body creators are going to offer BoM as a free/optional upgrade/update and not as a new/more expensive product to further capitalize on?

Why would alpha cuts be going away? You think compensating with texture resolution at 1024x1024 is high enough to not have jagged/blurry alpha edges that look like utter crap at any distance? Pixels do not have the precision of mesh vertices.

Maybe because they offered Bento as a free update.

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12 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Do really you think all the major mesh head/body creators are going to offer BoM as a free/optional upgrade/update and not as a new/more expensive product to further capitalize on?

Why would alpha cuts be going away? You think compensating with texture resolution at 1024x1024 is high enough to not have jagged/blurry alpha edges that look like utter crap at any distance? Pixels do not have the precision of mesh vertices.

No I dont think they will, I said that I hope - also alpha cuts are a nightmare, to me it was always easier to save the correspondent alpha as saved outfit, than having to apply a dif alpha cut everytime i change outfits.

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5 minutes ago, Cesartje said:

No I dont think they will, I said that I hope - also alpha cuts are a nightmare, to me it was always easier to save the correspondent alpha as saved outfit, than having to apply a dif alpha cut everytime i change outfits.

You will still have to remove and wear a new alpha layer for each outfit.

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1 minute ago, Tarani Tempest said:

You will still have to remove and wear a new alpha layer for each outfit.

But it will be saved in the outfits, much easier in my opinion.

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16 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

Maybe because they offered Bento as a free update.

Many of the bodies added bento hands as a free update.  Bento heads were a whole different story, as a head has to entire be redone ...re rigged to the bento bones. 

I think it is unfair to expect any creator to upgrade anything for free, at this point.  Awesome of course when they do, but I am not expecting anyone to do that.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Do really you think all the major mesh head/body creators are going to offer BoM as a free/optional upgrade/update and not as a new/more expensive product to further capitalize on?

Why would alpha cuts be going away? You think compensating with texture resolution at 1024x1024 is high enough to not have jagged/blurry alpha edges that look like utter crap at any distance? Pixels do not have the precision of mesh vertices.

Any mesh body or head that either takes Omega appliers or can be textured by end users with UUID's can be updated to BOM as easily as it can be textured with any other applier.

And you do realize you're concerned about "jagged and blurry edges" that, by their very function and nature, will be hidden by something else, don't you? Oh, incidentally, with BOM if the alpha is made with a gradient texture if you adjust the alpha cutoff of the body you can control the coverage of an alpha practically down to the pixel.

5 hours ago, Tarani Tempest said:

This is a concerning issue.  Folders of a zillion lipstick system layers is my nightmare.

 

Then don't buy a folder of a zillion lipstick system layers. Few nightmares are as easy to avoid.

The amount of "fear, uncertainty and doubt" around this project always amazes me. It's a simple project that does a limited number of things and it does those things quite well. Nothing about it will change or "replace" anything about any existing body or head in any way, and it can coexist with existing clothing and makeup appliers easily. Meanwhile, it allows the possibility of a number of new approaches to doing things that will always be optional. If what it does doesn't correspond to what you're trying to do? Don't use it.

If you want to keep doing thing the way you're doing? Keep doing them. If you have a single basic avatar look that you dress a la carte the current de facto workflow may even be preferable. If you have a number of different defined looks that you switch between, though, the workflow BOM will allow beats the current workflow like a rented mule. (What happens when you have a separate head and body textured differently for every outfit when a head or body update comes out?)

Listening to all this concern, it's almost as if people somehow got the idea that the current way of working with mesh bodies is a complex kludge that will be abandoned instantly as soon as something different comes out. I wonder why they'd think that?

Edited by Theresa Tennyson
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6 hours ago, Tarani Tempest said:

I think it is unfair to expect any creator to upgrade anything for free, at this point.  Awesome of course when they do, but I am not expecting anyone to do that.

Unless they don't sell something saying "permanent updates" or something, I don't think will be fair to sell the same one with a major update. 

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7 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

Some people just can't help, but to protect their favorite toy (game/feature/company) at all cost, they are often known as "white knights" in the community. On the other comment in this thread about some other concerns, like BoM not having materials and as far as I know not even having some plans to add them anytime soon (and we all know, that by LL standards soon is 1-2 years, so yeah, materials are not happening for a long time, if ever) we got a very mature reply below.

---

As for myself, I already said in the past - no materials = not interested. I can't quite remember if we had materials already when I just started with SL in 2012 or not, but in 2014 we already had them. So now after many years we're getting the downgrade without materials, which will make it useful only for stuff like tattoos and makeup. And even that is not fully, lately various body shine appliers got quite popular and those are all based on materials. Sorry, can't help and to be excited about getting feature that was worked on for years that is just for makeup and tattoos. I mean, yeah, it's not bad, yay for whoever might save a couple FPS here and there, but all that development time that went into it. *shrugs*

And because (partially at least) of the lack of materials, onions are not going anywhere, at best I can see mesh body creators including 2 copies of their bodies into the pack after/if they will update them; one with all the extra layers and one without. Alpha cuts through hud are also here to stay I believe, no one is going to update all their old releases to "old school alphas" and I highly doubt updated bodies won't have alpha cuts/hud either, since it'll make those thousands of thousands clothes from 2014/2015 (when most of the current mesh bodies were released) to now, entirely useless to your average SL user, which won't (and can't) make own alpha for them.

I mean.. it's working off the old system, so not that terribly surprising it's got no materials when there's no built in materials for skin to begin with. But you can still apply those materials on the attachment itself.

And obviously still some perfectly valid uses the 'onion layers' can fill, but for a lot of the more basic foundation stuff, that can all be taken care of by BoM now, from the skin itself, to the many uses of tattoo layers from skin blemishes and features, make up, etc.

As for Alpha layers, those can easily coexist with alpha huds, it can help cover the smaller nooks and such alpha huds don't cover, while alpha huds themselves can probably be trimed down in size over time to just covering more basic larger sections of bodies with alpha layers doing the more advanced detailing cutouts tailored to what ever clothing item they get made with.

 

Quote

I also very much prefer the HUD approach when it comes to makeup and alphas myself. Although I'm not sure if makeup via BoM can be done through HUDs with picture or not. But if not... no thanks, I'd rather wear the HUD that contains 5 to 25+ makeup options with pictures, than try to remember "the hell is that *Brandname_Makeupname_color* thing or which exactly from that list/folder was the one I wanted to put on now.

I will agree though, having all those skins and other such things being able to be condensed into a simple hud has been pretty nice,  maybe that might still be possible as I recall seeing scripting support for BoM floating about, not really something I've tried out myself as I lack the skills for that sort of thing, but I guess we'll have to see what people do with that.

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On 8/24/2019 at 4:39 AM, LittleMe Jewell said:

Now for the countdown to when the third party viewers release with it.

The Cool VL Viewer already supports bake on mesh (and has been supporting it for over a year already), and the current sources for the viewer can as well be compiled with the new Universal tattoo layer support. The next release (to be published on next Saturday) will have the universal layer support compiled in.

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11 minutes ago, Henri Beauchamp said:

The Cool VL Viewer already supports bake on mesh (and has been supporting it for over a year already), and the current sources for the viewer can as well be compiled with the new Universal tattoo layer support. The next release (to be published on next Saturday) will have the universal layer support compiled in.

Cool VL Viewer is the best, I have been using it since I can't even remember but probably around a few days after the "new" official viewer came out. :) 

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5 hours ago, Henri Beauchamp said:

The Cool VL Viewer already supports bake on mesh (and has been supporting it for over a year already), and the current sources for the viewer can as well be compiled with the new Universal tattoo layer support. The next release (to be published on next Saturday) will have the universal layer support compiled in.

Yeah, but we still need  the other viewers also supporting it so that we don't look like a bunch of messed up textured clowns to people using other viewers. 

The more the merrier....  the sooner the better. :)

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