Do you use voice chat?

[sirhc DeSantis]

Hell no. Once was enough (see the 'what are you eating while on SL' thread. Shudders)

[Pussycat Catnap]

I find it immersion breaking. I have a concept in my head for everyone I meet and I don't want that shattered with a voice that doesn't match it. That actually includes some of my own divergent from self alts. I like my concept of them to form through my interaction with the avatar they present to me, not with things that leek in from RL.

As such I never turn on voice - more so I don't hear them than so they don't hear me.

I've also at times in past known people in SL that were non-hearing; so I just presume it's best to use text so everyone I encounter can be equally involved.

- Many times I have been invited to attend a voice event, even by people who wanted me to present for some topic there, and refused for the above reasons. Even if I am just listening and then typing back - I don't want to hear them, I want to read them.

 

Lastly, I myself often have music going when in SL, and I can't stand having jarring other sounds intrude on that. I actually tend to avoid 'SL DJs' that talk much over their stream for this same reason (I don't even tend to like music that is in the genre of a DJ rhythmicly talking over another singer).

 

ps: RL me, doesn't use things like Audible (voiced books), for the same reasons...

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

33 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Lastly, I myself often have music going when in SL, and I can't stand having jarring other sounds intrude on that. I actually tend to avoid 'SL DJs' that talk much over their stream for this same reason (I don't even tend to like music that is in the genre of a DJ rhythmicly talking over another singer).

 

i hate that too. Although my man plays at one long established club in SL since 1945, he tried at another one recently and after a couple of songs the owner told him he had to welcome everyone on mic, even if it means talking over the music and not run the song titles that appear in the client. He said let the people enjoy the music, but the owner said "I'm trying to get as many avis in the club as possible and to shop my store. Let's say my man never returned there.

[StrykerHawk]

Depends on the situation and who i am with

[Polenth Yue]

I'm hard-of-hearing so the only point of voice would be if I wanted to waffle on at people without them being able to reply to me. So far, nobody has asked me to verify that I'm a mushroom, so it hasn't been an issue.

[ItHadToComeToThis]

Personally I love voice chat. I use text and voice equally as do my friends. Sometimes if I am working on something then having voice enabled is easier than having to keep track of a text convo / type a reply.

[Lewis Luminos]

I don't use voice for a number of reasons.

• It breaks the immersion for me. I hate the sound of my own voice and I find it jarring and doesn't suit the way my avatar looks.
• I am rarely alone at home at the times when I'm online, and I don't want others in my family to hear what I'm saying. Likewise I don't want people in SL to hear what they are saying.
• It's too much like talking on the phone, and I don't like talking on the phone. Even in RL, I almost exclusively use text messages only (except with my father, who doesn't seem to get how to do that).
• I don't even own a mic.

 

[Ellie McGregor]

I've never used it and don't even listen to it. Its irritating and it ruins all my illusions of fairies, dragons,, cool people etc to find they sound just like the annoying person beside you on the train to work. Gutteral and nasal noises, background noise, coughs, sneezes, etc I can do without. I have mostly lost the fascination with dancing in SL but when I did I usually played my own music as I have better taste than most of the DJs I have come across 😏 I do like the ambiant noises of birds etc on some sims so would sometimes turn media on for that but mostly all my media is off.

[Erwin Solo]

I use voice chat rarely; just to help someone migrate to Discord.  Voice chat is just too unreliable.  I mean long term unreliable.  I give it a chance again every time the king-of-the-hill third-party voice program gets pushed off the hilltop. 

I use third party voice programs often.  Discord is currently king, but there were several before that. 

[Pussycat Catnap]

23 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

 the owner told him he had to welcome everyone on mic, even if it means talking over the music and not run the song titles that appear in the client. He said let the people enjoy the music, but the owner said "I'm trying to get as many avis in the club as possible and to shop my store. Let's say my man never returned there.

When people welcome me as I show up to a venue...

1. Chances are my audio hasn't kicked in yet so I miss it...
2. If it has kicked in, I feel weird, and a strong desire to leave now battles it out in me over the pressure to respond. Maybe that's just a result of growing up a minority, where people watching me as I entered their venue tended to lead to nasty encounters... but I think this is more universal than that. If you're visiting friends it's one thing, but if you're going somewhere general not everyone wants to be 'put in the social limelight' right away...

 

That actually brings to mind another reason I dislike voice.

Biases... we all have them, and I have mine. If I hear someone before I know them, my biases might kick in and insert themselves into my ability to get to know them. Much better to meet someone and get to like them, and then learn they come from a demographic I struggle with a bias against; thus once again letting my rational mind get a win over my 'gut instincts'.

Meeting someone in text lets me know them, rather than label them. And yes, often emotion is poorly conveyed in text so we all know the drama when people get into a war on a forum or text medium that would never happen with 3 seconds of body language... and that is a very good contrary point... But voice without body language far from solving that issue just also inserts human bias.

 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Pussycat Catnap

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

On 9/26/2019 at 11:36 AM, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

 

i hate that too. Although my man plays at one long established club in SL since 1945, he tried at another one recently and after a couple of songs the owner told him he had to welcome everyone on mic, even if it means talking over the music and not run the song titles that appear in the client. He said let the people enjoy the music, but the owner said "I'm trying to get as many avis in the club as possible and to shop my store. Let's say my man never returned there.

I forgot to add this was on mic on the stream, not the local voice mode. Anywho still annoying.

[Adam Spark]

On 8/22/2019 at 4:12 PM, Kurshie Muromachi said:

No. I heard some "rumors" years ago about people using voice to exploit/leak real IP addresses. I don't know if that was true or if it's still true, but not bothering to chance it. If anyone has the official word on this, I would like to know.

Every website you visit gets that. Your IP is just your computer's web address. It means nothing and really reveals little of importance. The risks involved with somebody having your IP are highly overstated.

[Kurshie Muromachi]

2 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

Every website you visit gets that. Your IP is just your computer's web address. It means nothing and really reveals little of importance. The risks involved with somebody having your IP are highly overstated.

Yes, I realize websites see IPs but I generally use VPN while browsing.

If the IP address "means nothing and really reveals little of importance," are you suggesting it's perfectly fine that everyone in SL should see everyone else's IP address?

[Wulfie Reanimator]

3 hours ago, Kurshie Muromachi said:

Yes, I realize websites see IPs but I generally use VPN while browsing.

If the IP address "means nothing and really reveals little of importance," are you suggesting it's perfectly fine that everyone in SL should see everyone else's IP address?

Considering how IPs haven't ever been displayed in SL, making them visible now would be ridiculously unnecessary (and would cause panic) and just an overall bad decision.

That said, assuming that someone isn't using a VPN (most people), getting that person's IP will reveal their general location and their ISP. For example: If I look up information about my own public IP, I can see which city/state/country I'm in and an incorrect postal code. Whether or not people knowing your country is "too identifying" or makes you uncomfortable is up to you, no reasons needed. The ethical thing for the longest time has been to default to "keep IPs as private as practically possible."

But you can't get any identifying information about the person behind that IP address. No street address (or even postal code), no name, no email, nothing. If someone wanted to get personal information about someone, an IP might be a starting point on where to start looking while comparing information from other places like conversations, web profiles, etc.

Security-wise, the simplest thing that can be done to a public IP is flood it with requests until it fails to do anything and basically goes offline (Denial of Service attack). Anybody could do this with no knowledge of programming or networking. That might sound scary, but really it's just an inconvenience. Turning off the "internet box" in your home for 30 seconds is generally enough for you to get a new public IP address, meaning that whoever might've had your previous IP can no longer attack you (or do anything else).

Edited September 28, 2019 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Selene Gregoire]

double post

Edited September 28, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Selene Gregoire]

8 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

Every website you visit gets that. Your IP is just your computer's web address. It means nothing and really reveals little of importance. The risks involved with somebody having your IP are highly overstated.

Oh rly?

https://modemworld.me/?s=redzone&submit=Search

[Kurshie Muromachi]

8 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Considering how IPs haven't ever been displayed in SL, making them visible now would be ridiculously unnecessary (and would cause panic) and just an overall bad decision.

That's why I gave the example because I know there are people who would be against it.

8 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

But you can't get any identifying information about the person behind that IP address. No street address (or even postal code), no name, no email, nothing.

While someone could potentially live very close to a geolocated IP, my concern isn't really to do with location. For me, it's mainly because I want my real IP private. As you say, it's up to the user.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Kurshie Muromachi

[Adam Spark]

10 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Oh rly?

https://modemworld.me/?s=redzone&submit=Search

It can be used to determine if two accounts are yours, yes (with some level of accuracy. It isn't impossible that two users share a location or PC). But unless you are using alts for reasons that are begging for such karma, so what?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

23 minutes ago, Adam Spark said:

It can be used to determine if two accounts are yours, yes (with some level of accuracy. It isn't impossible that two users share a location or PC). But unless you are using alts for reasons that are begging for such karma, so what?

This is a thinly veiled version of the same argument that is often used to defend or advocate for things like voice verification. It's the old "Why, what are you hiding?" argument and, I'm sorry, but it's not merely nonsense, but also insinuating and invasive.

To begin with, there are probably endlessly good reasons why someone might not want to be associated with an alt. A simple example is someone who is experimenting with their sexuality, and may not want you to know, for whatever reasons, that they have an alt who is also a regular at a gay sex club. And they have every right to maintain that as a private information.

It is also, as you yourself note, not very accurate. During the height of the Redzone controversy, I had people (supporters of the product who were trying to "demonstrate" that IPs were already insecure, and hence nothing to get upset about) send me my IP details that they had harvested during arguments on Redzone's own forum. The IP was for the university I was at that time attending as a student. On that basis, I had literally hundreds of alts.

Finally and most importantly, however, this is simply none of your business. You are entitled to exactly as much information about me as is publicly available through my profile, or that I choose to share with you. Anything else you learn about me, without my consent, is intrusive, invasive, and unnecessary.

[Adam Spark]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

To begin with, there are probably endlessly good reasons why someone might not want to be associated with an alt. A simple example is someone who is experimenting with their sexuality, and may not want you to know, for whatever reasons, that they have an alt who is also a regular at a gay sex club. And they have every right to maintain that as a private information.

Knowing an avatar name and tying it to another doesn't reveal this. SLAddict Allen and Adam Spark are one in the same. You can't infer anything about me from that information and I'm still quite able to maintain my privacy. Of course I would never allow my friends on either to not be aware of who I am; if I was using one avatar to experiment, I'd be using both to, but to each their own. The good reasons to have alts is my entire point. Unless you have a bad reason, so what if it gets out?

[Rolig Loon]

13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It is also, as you yourself note, not very accurate.

I believe that's the crux of Adam's point.  Your IP address is a very poor indicator of anything important precisely because it's a lousy way to find out who/what/where you are.  If you are sharing a modem/router (as when you are in a dorm or your favorite coffee shop), you could be on any one of dozens of connected machines.  Even if you are at home on your own dedicated router, your IP address is either assigned dynamically and changed all the time or can be easily updated by manually resetting it.  All in all, yes, the IP address is private information but it is also very easily discovered and highly unreliable as a source of meaningful information.  Personally, I don't spend energy worrying about it when there are much more serious gremlins out there in the Internet. YMMV of course, and yes, it is a TOS violation if I tell anyone what your IP address is -- even if it is unreliable.

[Rhonda Huntress]

I know a man who met his wife via an IP address.  She shared her IP on a forum and he advised her to remove it.  She then challenged him with the standard, "you can't pin point me" argument.  Two hours later he knocked on her door.

That said, I am not too worried about many people in SL having the skill and the will to do what is necessary to pull that off. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

14 minutes ago, Adam Spark said:

Knowing an avatar name and tying it to another doesn't reveal this. SLAddict Allen and Adam Spark are one in the same. You can't infer anything about me from that information and I'm still quite able to maintain my privacy. Of course I would never allow my friends on either to not be aware of who I am; if I was using one avatar to experiment, I'd be using both to, but to each their own. The good reasons to have alts is my entire point. Unless you have a bad reason, so what if it gets out?

 

9 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

Your IP address is a very poor indicator of anything important precisely because it's a lousy way to find out who/what/where you are.  If you are sharing a modem/router (as when you are in a dorm or your favorite coffee shop), you could be on any one of dozens of connected machines.  Even if you are at home on your own dedicated router, your IP address is either assigned dynamically and changed all the time or can be easily updated by manually resetting it.

This works under the assumption that the only damage that might potentially accrue to me is through knowing my RL identity. That ignores the fact that there may be excellent reasons why I don't want my main associated with one or more alts. To use the example I gave above, of someone exploring their sexuality through an alt, there might be all sorts of reasons, good ones, why that person might not want their main associated with that. And the only person who is a competent and legitimate judge of that is the person whose avatars they are.

It also neglects to take into account that there may be information about my RL identity that I'm quite happy to share through my main, but don't want to be shared through my alt. Those details, that I've shared because I was comfortable sharing them with friends of one account, could now be associated with other accounts that I'm not so happy to associate with my RL identity.

And finally, this:

20 minutes ago, Adam Spark said:

Unless you have a bad reason, so what if it gets out?

Who are you to judge what constitutes a "bad reason"? Why do you get to make that determination?

RedZone was built upon generating fear. It made no pretense that it could reveal someone's RL location, but the very fact that it pretended to be able to associate different avatars through IP addresses was enough to generate real panic.

Even if there is no systematic association of avatar name with IP (as RedZone produced), making IPs easily available through SL would introduce a chilling effect.

[Adam Spark]

13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 

This works under the assumption that the only damage that might potentially accrue to me is through knowing my RL identity. That ignores the fact that there may be excellent reasons why I don't want my main associated with one or more alts. To use the example I gave above, of someone exploring their sexuality through an alt, there might be all sorts of reasons, good ones, why that person might not want their main associated with that. And the only person who is a competent and legitimate judge of that is the person whose avatars they are.

It also neglects to take into account that there may be information about my RL identity that I'm quite happy to share through my main, but don't want to be shared through my alt. Those details, that I've shared because I was comfortable sharing them with friends of one account, could now be associated with other accounts that I'm not so happy to associate with my RL identity.

And finally, this:

Who are you to judge what constitutes a "bad reason"? Why do you get to make that determination?

RedZone was built upon generating fear. It made no pretense that it could reveal someone's RL location, but the very fact that it pretended to be able to associate different avatars through IP addresses was enough to generate real panic.

Even if there is no systematic association of avatar name with IP (as RedZone produced), making IPs easily available through SL would introduce a chilling effect.

Scylla, I am fairly confident we can both agree than anything that involves griefing, deceit, or any intentional harm to others would constitute a bad reason.

You are right. The person wishing to hide their sexuality experiment has the right to do so. We all have the right to keep secrets from those around us. Some of us do, some of us don't. Like I said before, to each their own.

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, Adam Spark said:

It can be used to determine if two accounts are yours, yes (with some level of accuracy. It isn't impossible that two users share a location or PC). But unless you are using alts for reasons that are begging for such karma, so what?

You've never been stalked in RL/online have you. I have. For more than 20 years. The only thing that stopped him was death.