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Morena Tully

Psychology of de-rendering

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I always chuckle when i'm informed that my avatar is currently being derendered: When it happens i'm typically at 30-40K complexity and everyone around me is 200-300K+.

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Posted (edited)

I have de-rendered a few things, but mostly for photographic purposes.

It's a feature that's is handy once in a while.  It rarely happens.   

Is this over-thinking because we altered the environment?  Maybe, a little bit because I have de-rendered many things in photoshop and it's a handy thing to learn albeit not a total necessity as the photo may have been just as enjoyable without my altering into something else, i.e. taking bits out for example.    

So, it's a choice.  I have often times ended up liking both photos.

As far as for de-rendering due to lag...I have not tried it.

Edited by FairreLilette

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I think I may have de-rendered maybe 3 objects in all my time in SL. It's not a solution that pops into my mind very often.  I have temporarily turned off rendering water sometimes while terraforming along a waterway, but I don't consider that the same as de-rendering other people's things that I don't want to see.  I was actually surprised, when reading various Bellisseria related threads,  by how many things people said that they were de-rendering.   I suppose that I like to see the world warts and all :).  If nothing else, it gives me something to wonder about when I see some of the really odd things. 

I do set the number for jelly dolls down pretty low at crowded events, but I haven't ever de-rendered other avatars.  I would be afraid that I would be bumping into them. It's bad enough trying to walk through half-rezzed body parts to get away from the landing point at events. I generally try to avoid crowded times at popular events, and there are many events I don't go to at all unless I've received a notice from a  store about something they have at an event, which I decided is something I like. 

 

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I almost never derender anyone or anything unless I'm trying to take a screenshot. Jellydolls, on the other hand, I use extensively. I still think it's a backwards way of dealing with excessively render intensive avatars but it's all LL will give us.

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Derendering is a great way to find out which clothes auto hide the bodies under 'em, and which don't. 

I like the ones that don't, for lots of reasons. 

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Not actual de-rendering but I see that lots and lots of people switch of the parcel setting: "Avatars on other parcels can see and chat with avatars on this parcel". Ok, ok... but that feels rather weird for example in Bellisseria. You walk on the streets, you can see on the mini map green dots and you can see they are on their parcel outside, not inside their house. But you cannot see the avatars even they are next to you one meter away. Nor can they see you. Uff... weird, weird, weird! :/ :P

There should be setting to limit the effect to certain area in the parcel, like inside the house for example. It's not necessary always to use the setting for the whole parcel. Personally I very seldom use that setting. It's just odd to keep it always on. Why should there be a need always to hide yourself from your neighbors when you are in your garden?

About the de-rendering matter: Yes sometimes I do derender annoying objects, either temporarily or permanently. This is an excellent handy feature.

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Posted (edited)

I have only de rendered for the sake of a picture. Some annoying sign in the background, a pizza on a table I want to sit on. Someone who insists on standing in front of me, even objects that are not in the picture but cast shadows I do not want.

Edited by Talligurl

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3 hours ago, Coby Foden said:

Not actual de-rendering but I see that lots and lots of people switch of the parcel setting: "Avatars on other parcels can see and chat with avatars on this parcel". Ok, ok... but that feels rather weird for example in Bellisseria. You walk on the streets, you can see on the mini map green dots and you can see they are on their parcel outside, not inside their house. But you cannot see the avatars even they are next to you one meter away. Nor can they see you. Uff... weird, weird, weird! :/ :P

There should be setting to limit the effect to certain area in the parcel, like inside the house for example. It's not necessary always to use the setting for the whole parcel. Personally I very seldom use that setting. It's just odd to keep it always on. Why should there be a need always to hide yourself from your neighbors when you are in your garden?

About the de-rendering matter: Yes sometimes I do derender annoying objects, either temporarily or permanently. This is an excellent handy feature.

What you've suggested works on mainland (and presumably estates) where you can cut a parcel that's just the footprint of the house within your lot. Bellisseria's more complicated as the houses have different footprints. But yeah, it's weird to see lots of green dots and never find another person.

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If I'm out just wandering around, I don't bother derendering even the most heinous crap unless I'm taking a photo. However, at my homes, I absolutely derender/block/blacklist anything that I consider to be annoying (trees that fling particles top that list). "Your world, your imagination" doesn't have to include "and your neighbor's intrusive junk".

I never give that stuff a second thought once I can't see it, so it doesn't cause any feelings of whatever for me. I suppose it might if I accidentally walk smack into one of the derendered items, though. 😛

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4 hours ago, Coby Foden said:

Personally I very seldom use that setting. It's just odd to keep it always on. Why should there be a need always to hide yourself from your neighbors when you are in your garden?

"Trying to comply with the maturity ratings" is my simple answer to that question. I have no desire to have to try to remember to switch it off and on all the time, so it stays on by default. If LL ever changes the rules, I might stop using it. 

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Posted (edited)

I'll confess to not reading the whole thread. Now that my SL time is so limited, I have to skim threads. It's quite possible that everything I'm about to say has already been said numerous times.

First I love, love, love derender and block. Things annoy me rather easily, and I don't come to SL to be annoyed. So, I use the tools available to me to make my experience as enjoyable as possible.

  • Use show friends anytime I'm at a shopping event. I don't use this feature for music events however.
  • Will use temp derender when I'm at a shopping event and the coordinators have the mistaken belief that decorating the space is more important than my ability to easily cam shop.
  • Use permanent derender on anything that clutters the sky around any of my builds.
  • Will block people who gesturebate at music events or use dances that run over me constantly. (I do clear this list from time to time)
  • Will use permanent derender on any object(s) that cause my fps to drop substantially near my home.
  • Will permanent derender any object that is creating an annoying sound in the environment. I do not limit sounds to my parcel as most of the time I like to hear if a car or boat is passing or the soothing sounds of a horse galloping down the beach.

Once I derender or block someone or something, I forget about it. They don't linger in my mind one bit. In fact, sometimes when I have to check something with an alt and I see something I've derendered on my mains I'm really quite surprised to see the object. I truly do forget they exist.

Edited by Blush Bravin
added point about sounds
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I just remembered another reason that I derender.  If I'm doing a hunt in a store or on a parcel/region, where there are multiple hunt items, I will derender each one after I've found it so that I don't find it again.   Especially useful if they are all named the same (or in such a way as to not really identify what is in them) and cost to buy the item - so I don't buy the same one over and over.  If it is a hunt that might take me a few days, then I'll "blacklist" the items, removing the items from the blacklist when I'm finished.  Otherwise, it is just a temporary derender.

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7 hours ago, Coby Foden said:

Why should there be a need always to hide yourself from your neighbors when you are in your garden?

Why do neighbors need to know what I am doing in my garden? Nosy neighbors. Busybodies. Evesdroppers.

What we do on our parcels is our business, no one else's. If we chose to allow others to know our business that is our choice. If we choose to not allow nosy neighbors to know our every move, that is our choice. Personally, I prefer the latter. I've had to deal with too many nosy neighbors over the decades in RL. Not even going to tolerate it in SL.

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1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Why do neighbors need to know what I am doing in my garden? Nosy neighbors. Busybodies. Evesdroppers.

What we do on our parcels is our business, no one else's.

I think it's different in the new Linden Homes neighbourhoods than mainland. It's so much like a suburban neighbourhood that no signs of life at all can give it a weird feeling, a sort of uncanny valley aspect. The ability to cam through walls changes the equation of course, but I can understand what Coby's saying. Just some signs of life, someone to say hello to.

With it being all or nothing, and the popularity of a locked down parcel, it's not just understandably not knowing what the neighbours are up to. It's more like not having a clue what any of them even look like.

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2 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

I think it's different in the new Linden Homes neighbourhoods than mainland. It's so much like a suburban neighbourhood that no signs of life at all can give it a weird feeling, a sort of uncanny valley aspect. The ability to cam through walls changes the equation of course, but I can understand what Coby's saying. Just some signs of life, someone to say hello to.

With it being all or nothing, and the popularity of a locked down parcel, it's not just understandably not knowing what the neighbours are up to. It's more like not having a clue what any of them even look like.

There are easy ways to find the parcel owner's name and IM them if there is a green dot on the parcel. I would have thought that to be rather common knowledge but on the other hand this is SL and there is a lot to learn. Not even the Lindens know it all. Individually. Collectively, they might know as much as (benefit of the doubt here) 99%.

I get what Coby is saying, too, and I don't disagree with her. Wasn't meaning to play devil's advocate either. I wasn't aware LL allowed subdividing of the Linden Home parcels. Other parcels yeah but I wasn't sure about those particular ones. 

I have the misfortune to be a fence sitter on this one. I'd rather have it both ways. Dividing a parcel seems to be the only option other than a skybox, which, I understand, are allowed unless that changed recently. If I could afford premium, I'd probably get one, build a garden at ground level and set up a skybox/platform.

I have a home in SL now and a job that pays well on Hither. No one bothers me there. It's quiet. I can build to my heart's content and I couldn't have asked for a better boss. So I am content, happy even. Drop by sometime and have a looksee and please watch your step in the construction zones. Be prepared to duck! Oh and the neighbors? Best neighbors in all of SL.

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16 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

There are easy ways to find the parcel owner's name and IM them if there is a green dot on the parcel. I would have thought that to be rather common knowledge but on the other hand this is SL and there is a lot to learn. Not even the Lindens know it all. Individually. Collectively, they might know as much as (benefit of the doubt here) 99%.

I get what Coby is saying, too, and I don't disagree with her. Wasn't meaning to play devil's advocate either. I wasn't aware LL allowed subdividing of the Linden Home parcels. Other parcels yeah but I wasn't sure about those particular ones.

For me, it feels intrusive to IM a green dot when the person has their privacy options on. It might be fine, but there's no way to know if it's an ok time or how they might react. How many viewers have radar you can IM from these days? Otherwise it's poking around on someone's parcel to get a name and a profile. Not sure how I feel about doing that when someone's put privacy settings on.

I'm pretty sure the LH parcels can't be subdivided.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

There are easy ways to find the parcel owner's name and IM them if there is a green dot on the parcel. I would have thought that to be rather common knowledge but on the other hand this is SL and there is a lot to learn. Not even the Lindens know it all. Individually. Collectively, they might know as much as (benefit of the doubt here) 99%.

Yes, you can always take the proactive step of finding the owner's name and sending an IM, but I think Bitsy's basic point is that contacting a neighbor blind is just enough harder than sending a message to a neighbor you can see that most people won't do it.  If I see a green dot in my neighbor's parcel, I can't tell whether she is naked or building something, or whether she is maybe AFK.  I don't like to interrupt someone who is clearly busy or might be embarrassed by the thought that --gasp! -- I knew that they were dressing.  It's not a big social inhibition, but enough to keep me from saying Hi as often as I might otherwise.

I wander around Bellisseria a lot, just because I like exploring, but I rarely see anyone else outside.  As Bitsy says, it's a little spooky.

Edit:  Heh, and there she made the point herself while I was typing.  ;)

Edited by Rolig Loon
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Just now, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

For me, it feels intrusive to IM a green dot when the person has their privacy options on. It might be fine, but there's no way to know if it's an ok time or how they might react. How many viewers have radar you can IM from these days? Otherwise it's poking around on someone's parcel to get a name and a profile. Not sure how I feel about doing that when someone's put privacy settings on.

I'm pretty sure the LH parcels can't be subdivided.

A lot of people feel that way. I'm one. I've had people suggest it to me is the only reason I mentioned it. All you need to do really to get the owner's name (doesn't mean the person there is the owner) is right click an object and look at the first tab. It tells you who owns the object. And you don't even have to be on the parcel to do it. I don't know if all the viewers have radar but I'm reasonably sure most of them do.

Could have sworn someone in this thread said the LH parcels could be subdivided. No biggie. Not for me anyway.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

Yes, you can always take the proactive step of finding the owner's name and sending an IM, but I think Bitsy's basic point is that contacting a neighbor blind is just enough harder than sending a message to a neighbor you can see that most people won't do it.  If I see a green dot in my neighbor's parcel, I can't tell whether she is naked or building something, or whether she is maybe AFK.  I don't like to interrupt someone who is clearly busy or might be embarrassed by the thought that --gasp! -- I knew that they were dressing.  It's not a big social inhibition, but enough to keep me from saying Hi as often as I might otherwise.

I wander around Bellisseria a lot, just because I like exploring, but I rarely see anyone else outside.  As Bitsy says, it's a little spooky.

Edit:  Heh, and there she made the point herself while I was typing.  ;)

See my post above. And like I said I wasn't intentionally playing devil's advocate so much as I was reacting to privacy invasion. I value my privacy highly... what little of it I have left.

Edited by Selene Gregoire

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20 hours ago, Coby Foden said:

Not actual de-rendering but I see that lots and lots of people switch of the parcel setting: "Avatars on other parcels can see and chat with avatars on this parcel". Ok, ok... but that feels rather weird for example in Bellisseria. You walk on the streets, you can see on the mini map green dots and you can see they are on their parcel outside, not inside their house. But you cannot see the avatars even they are next to you one meter away. Nor can they see you. Uff... weird, weird, weird! :/ :P

There should be setting to limit the effect to certain area in the parcel, like inside the house for example. It's not necessary always to use the setting for the whole parcel. Personally I very seldom use that setting. It's just odd to keep it always on. Why should there be a need always to hide yourself from your neighbors when you are in your garden?

About the de-rendering matter: Yes sometimes I do derender annoying objects, either temporarily or permanently. This is an excellent handy feature.

Maybe that is what happened to me yesterday....I was walking down the street in my neighborhood & on the mini map - it looked like there were 3 people - right next to me on the road....but perhaps it was on the parcel I was next to.....I turned all around & could not see anyone........can an avatar make himself invisible on the street?......I did not feel like I bumped into anyone.....it was weird.

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On 8/24/2019 at 12:00 PM, Gadget Portal said:

Derendering is a great way to find out which clothes auto hide the bodies under 'em, and which don't. 

I like the ones that don't, for lots of reasons. 

recent convo with a friend:

Him: I like that dress!
Me: Thanks! which colour looks best?
Him: I don't know, I derendered it.

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8 hours ago, Akane Nacht said:


Him: I don't know, I derendered it.

That's probably one of the best arguments I've heard for using the HUD to alpha the crotch and chest under every outfit.  ¬¬

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18 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

That's probably one of the best arguments I've heard for using the HUD to alpha the crotch and chest under every outfit.  ¬¬

I heard Bakes on Mesh will hit the grid Monday... I'm just glad I didn't have to wait for it since Maitreya includes a "system layer" HUD with the Lara. I just wish it had more than one color... black. I could have at least tinted white. I think. Maybe not. But soon.

506c310bb86e2.jpeg

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20 hours ago, Akane Nacht said:

recent convo with a friend:

Him: I like that dress!
Me: Thanks! which colour looks best?
Him: I don't know, I derendered it.

Actually, if I can be serious for a second (it happens), the real reason is the scripted stuff is usually no modify and/or mess up your body if you try to change without getting naked in the process. 

Which could arguably be a good thing too. 

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