Is Second Life Just Turning Into a Lot of Backdrops?

[Rolig Loon]

1 minute ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Yet the house still stands...

and yet we persevere, to coin a phrase.  We did have a hot time that night.  It is seared into my memory.

[kiramanell]

8 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I was going to say "maybe not", but I can't be sure. I've always had an active imagination, a strong oppositional streak, and a significant ability to keep myself amused. Nevertheless, as Rolig observes, I do need some minimal recognizable framework on which to build. That said, though SL certainly allows me to "do" things I can only imagine in RL, it's nowhere near covering the ground my imagination plows every day. It's a tautology, but I can't imagine a world that could contain my imagination.

I'm currently having a good time "realizing" myself as the roiling, boiling, spontaneously decaying fuzzball of moral ambiguity, but it's not a look that will last. It's not a relatable presentation. It doesn't give people enough to judge, and that's what we're wired to do in encounters.

While my flights of fancy may go a li'l farther than some of you, I do eventually come home.

 

I wish to quickly get out there, that reports of my lack of imagination are highly exaggerated.  I can imagine quite a bit, really; but my point was kinda, not that peeps in SL lack imagination per se, but rather overwhelmingly choose to self-limit, because our brains kinda need to do that, lest immersion falls apart. And my derivative point, if you will, is that -- strictly looking at myself for 'evidence' -- often we think we freed our mind, when all we really did, was augment/blush things up a bit. Alien planets, flying as a human, mysterious structures, yawn, that's nothing truly spectacular.

Truly 'alien', though (as in truly foreign to our brain), is hard to come by, though. Like I have yet to see a scifi world that isn't remarkably (and disappointingly) akin to our own. Perhaps the concept of the Reapers, in Mass Effect, was the first time I was confronted with a world that was close to truly unfathomable to me. The rest is just old worlds dressed new.

Perhaps it's truly different for you. And if so, please do share.  But, for myself, and what I generally observe around me, our minds are almost invariably still enslaved by the existence we know, and rarely ever truly 'free' -- disappointing as that is.

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

15 hours ago, kiramanell said:

Like we can all fly, yet still have stairs in our homes. Our brains, for some reason, simply can't cope with 'too perfect.' Or too much deviation, rather.

There's a ladder in my shop and at the houseboat only because others might want it. I like the look of it in the shop too though, but never use it. I fly and fall mostly, sometimes sit-TP. It's a different kind of immersion. Walking is for RL, flying is for SL.

One of my joys is playing with inverting expectations though. If it's "supposed" to be one way and I can reverse it and still have it work aesthetically, then it just delights me and hopefully entertains others too. It requires a reference to expectations though, otherwise the humour in it won't work.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Bitsy Buccaneer

[Selene Gregoire]

Someone has been reading too many Carlos Casteneda books. 

[Selene Gregoire]

9 minutes ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Walking is for RL, flying is for SL.

I don't fly much in SL. I prefer to walk. Or dogtrot since the Vista AO I'm using has that anim. Faster than a walk but still much slower than a run. Sliding [downward] usually triggers it.

About the only time I do fly is when building and need to have my av at a greater distance than usual.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[kiramanell]

1 minute ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

There's a ladder in my shop and at the houseboat only because others might want it. I like the look of it in the shop too though, but never use it. I fly and fall mostly, sometimes sit-TP. It's a different kind of immersion. Walking is for RL, flying is for SL.

My big joy is playing with inverting expectations though. If it's "supposed" to be one way and I can reverse it and still have it work aesthetically, then it just delights me and hopefully entertains others too.

 

Hehe, I rarely actually use the stairs either.  Flying is so much easier. And like when I approach my new beach house, from my landing point, I fly to it, and usually just 'dash' thru a window to enter (with 'emdash'), LOL. But the structure still has a front door, and all my homes still have stairs, regardless. See, I don't mind cheating a bit, just so long as I realize it's cheating. Only if those 'token' items weren't there, I would start to experience immersion issues.

[LittleMe Jewell]

15 minutes ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

There's a ladder in my shop and at the houseboat only because others might want it. I like the look of it in the shop too though, but never use it. I fly and fall mostly, sometimes sit-TP. It's a different kind of immersion. Walking is for RL, flying is for SL.

 

6 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I don't fly much in SL. I prefer to walk. Or dogtrot since the Vista AO I'm using has that anim. Faster than a walk but still much slower than a run. Sliding [downward] usually triggers it.

About the only time I do fly is when building and need to have my av at a greater distance than usual.

 

I almost never walk in SL - usually only when I'm in a sim that enforces the No Fly be sending home anyone flying.  I fly or TP just about everywhere I go, even if it is just going from inside the house out to the yard.

Interesting how we all view and use (or not) those abilities.

[LittleMe Jewell]

7 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

Hehe, I rarely actually use the stairs either.  Flying is so much easier. And like when I approach my new beach house, from my landing point, I fly to it, and usually just 'dash' thru a window to enter (with 'emdash'), LOL. But the structure still has a front door, and all my homes still have stairs, regardless. See, I don't mind cheating a bit, just so long as I realize it's cheating. Only if those 'token' items weren't there, I would start to experience immersion issues.

If my skybox has a second floor, then I will typically have stairs to it (though I've only had a couple of skyboxes with second floors), but only actual Houses need doors, not skyboxes, for some reason.

[kiramanell]

5 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

If my skybox has a second floor, then I will typically have stairs to it (though I've only had a couple of skyboxes with second floors), but only actual Houses need doors, not skyboxes, for some reason.

 

^^ Very true on the bolded part, and I was even going to mention that, LOL.  Indeed, for some reason we accept that a skybox is just a closed box. I'm not entirely sure why even (which is why I didnt include it in my post yet). Maybe because we accept the reality of being boxed in, like the crew of a submarine accepts there's no viable outside to go to?

Edited August 21, 2019 by kiramanell

[Selene Gregoire]

35 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

 

 

I almost never walk in SL - usually only when I'm in a sim that enforces the No Fly be sending home anyone flying.  I fly or TP just about everywhere I go, even if it is just going from inside the house out to the yard.

Interesting how we all view and use (or not) those abilities.

Well.. I do tp around and even set up my own personals. 

I don't like flying because it's just too fast. I find flying planes in SL easier than flying an avatar. At least the planes behave more like you would expect one to, unlike an avatar.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[LittleMe Jewell]

40 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I don't like flying because it's just too fast.

I tried to fly once using Firestorm's 'super duper boost'.  That was a major trip - skyrocketed me across the entire region before I could blink.  I do use that mode if I want to actually Fly up to a super high spot, rather than TP there.  I usually keep the boost disabled though so that I can control the flying a bit more.  Some days it still seems like it is out of control fast, especially sometimes a light tap of Page Up or Page Down.

[Madelaine McMasters]

2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I tried to fly once using Firestorm's 'super duper boost'.  That was a major trip - skyrocketed me across the entire region before I could blink.  I do use that mode if I want to actually Fly up to a super high spot, rather than TP there.  I usually keep the boost disabled though so that I can control the flying a bit more.  Some days it still seems like it is out of control fast, especially sometimes a light tap of Page Up or Page Down.

I once had a jetpack that provided super duper boost, and blew particle smoke in the process. My SL-ex and I had limited success and limitless fun trying to skywrite with them.

[Selene Gregoire]

13 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I tried to fly once using Firestorm's 'super duper boost'.  That was a major trip - skyrocketed me across the entire region before I could blink.  I do use that mode if I want to actually Fly up to a super high spot, rather than TP there.  I usually keep the boost disabled though so that I can control the flying a bit more.  Some days it still seems like it is out of control fast, especially sometimes a light tap of Page Up or Page Down.

I've never enabled it and it's still too fast or me. It was that way with the old LL V1, too.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 hour ago, kiramanell said:

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

If my skybox has a second floor, then I will typically have stairs to it (though I've only had a couple of skyboxes with second floors), but only actual Houses need doors, not skyboxes, for some reason.

 

^^ Very true on the bolded part, and I was even going to mention that, LOL.  Indeed, for some reason we accept that a skybox is just a closed box. I'm not entirely sure why even (which is why I didnt include it in my post yet). Maybe because we accept the reality of being boxed in, like the crew of a submarine accepts there's no viable outside to go to?

I've only built one home with a door (a lighthouse) in all my years in SL, and that was only to the outside. It was intended as an indicator and was scripted to open when I logged out, as a welcome to visitors. I rarely closed it when I was inside. I moved between floors with teleport buttons, saving the space, prim count, construction hassle, and navigation issues of staircases. The top of the lighthouse was an open air dance floor, and there were pose balls on the light beams where couples could cuddle while watching the world revolve around them. Although SL made it possible for me to share that idea with others, it was a very old idea for me. I've been riding beams of light since I was a child and lighthouses have always been objects to see from, not to be seen.

Everything else I've built has been wide open to the outside, but with mechanisms to afford the illusion of privacy and/or seclusion. My hut/skybox is wide open on one wall, unless I touch the hut and select "Private". When that happens, the outside of the hut becomes opaque, but the window walls and balcony are still transparent from the inside. If I select "Cozy", the inside walls become opaque as well. If I leave the hut, it reverts to "Welcome".

I have another home that is nothing more than a 10m disc that can be made to look like a dandelion clock or the Milky Way Galaxy from above. It can emit dandelion seeds or stars that are caught by the SL wind and blown around in beautiful patterns. It took me quite a few hours to understand the quirks of SL particles, and to make tiny ones that are visible from a great distance. I've never seen anything else like it in SL. That place feels as much like home to me as anywhere else I've ever lived here. It has no doors, no walls, no roof and only the hint of a floor (it's mostly transparent).

In my early days, I rented an ultra cheap "isolation cell" skybox like you describe. I put my furniture on the roof.

It's not a matter of me accepting a reality that boxes me in, it's a matter of me not imagining beyond it. I'm doing my best... I think.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Madelaine McMasters

[Sammy Huntsman]

Nah, with all these events. SL is literally Shopping Simulator 2019. Right now it's in Early Access though. Lol

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

31 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I moved between floors with teleport buttons, saving the space, prim count, construction hassle, and navigation issues of staircases. The top of the lighthouse was an open air dance floor, and there were pose balls on the light beams where couples could cuddle while watching the world revolve around them. Although SL made it possible for me to share that idea with others, it was a very old idea for me. I've been riding beams of light since I was a child and lighthouses have always been objects to see from, not to be seen.

The first house I slived in was a large hollow cylinder with a round room on each floor and a TP system. I was very very noob and struggled with the TP system, but I figured out how to sit-TP and used that method instead. Probably why it still feels natural to me as a way of moving. The inner walls were translucent and when Morgan got more land and started building a Roman temple, I loved to watch the light from the sunset play on it. That's one of my clearest memories of my early days, the sunset light on the temple.

The light beams sound magic. I wish I'd been to see them.

[Rolig Loon]

I don't spend much SL time inside, so I don't have much use for houses except as places to store stuff.  The "house" on my region is for show only.  It's an open air villa with an atrium.  It was a fun building challenge.  The first time I built it I used prims and wanted to see if I could make compound miter cuts to get the slanted roofs to fit properly.  A few years ago I redid it in mesh as a practice piece, to improve my modeling and texturing skills.  For all of that, I can't remember the last time I went inside.    I have made ( and scripted ) hundreds of doors over the years, but I only have a couple installed anywhere in the region. I don't have much need for them myself.  My "living" space is in gardens and wooded spots, and around one of the ponds.

The "inside" spaces that I use are tiered work platforms in the sky. One is actually designed as a living space, although I use it only as my login location.  The others are all full of current or past projects with no particular logic to their layout.  I sort of know where everything is, but only because I remember where I was when I was working on it.

When I am on the ground, I prefer to walk or trot from one place to another, or to try out vehicle-like things to ride on.  If I am in a hurry, I fly, but that's not usually necessary on my own region. I'm not often in a hurry.  Except at ground level, I move most of the time in a network of teleport stations that I can reconfigure on a whim. I can pop around from one platform to another or to ground destinations without having to walk more than 20m to another TP spot.  

Away from the home region, I prefer to walk (or swim) or to ride, so that I can see the sights along the way.  I'm usually less interested in where I am going than in what I will find as I go there.  My explorations of Bellisseria can take hours as I swim along the coast or ride the maze of streets on my scooter.  I am always surprised by how few people I see outside, despite all of the green dots on the map.  Everyone else must be indoors, watching TV or doing  .... something.

[Madelaine McMasters]

3 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

Everyone else must be indoors, watching TV or doing  .... something.

I love the idea of people sitting in front of screens, watching their second selves sitting in front of screens, watching...

Edited August 21, 2019 by Madelaine McMasters

[Madelaine McMasters]

28 minutes ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

The light beams sound magic. I wish I'd been to see them.

That lighthouse is in my purse, under a bulldozer and some seamed nylons.

I'll make sure you get to see it.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 8/20/2019 at 4:28 PM, Rolig Loon said:

Reading this and other posts in this thread leaves me feeling very sad, as if I am watching a world (RL) slowly fading away.  I suppose this is what each generation feels as it watches the world change hands.  I remember my own mother finally adopting the attitude that, as she said, "It ain't my ship.  Let 'er sink."  That struck me as much too pessimistic at the time, but I am beginning to appreciate her perspective. 

Times change, and so do the ways that people frame the world.  I grew up in an analog world, thinking of time as a stream that flows smoothly from one moment to the next.  That's very different from the digital world that I now live in, where time is divided into discrete chunks.  Today, we deal in snapshots and sound bites.  We expect to return from a vacation with several thousand photos on an iPhone. Instead of buying an album of music that has been arranged on CD to fill a theme, we plan on grabbing new tunes one at a time from the Internet to create our own patchwork quilt of music.  And then we rearrange the collection at will, moving each  piece of music as a separable chunk.  We even travel in digital ways, visiting the world by hopping from one airport destination to another rather than taking the slow route to see what's between them.

It's hard to explain an analog world to people who are growing up in a digital one.  It's doubly hard to do it without seeming to imply that the worlds are incompatible or that one of them is "wrong".  Neither is true.  My feeling of sadness rises when I find myself forgetting to step back and recognize that my framework is not the only one -- that I have lived long enough to learn that the world changes but have not become wise enough to adapt to it.   And yes, I feel sad when I realize that some people around me don't even know what I mean by living in an analog world, so they only know of one framework.

Thank you, @Bitsy Buccaneer , for your kind words about my mermaid posts.  I'm glad that they have done what I intended --- not to be a snapshot album of things I have seen, but to be an invitation to explore for yourself. As Scylla put it, to be a "means" rather than an "end product".

Tiny flecks of white floated and swirled in the column of light. Snowflakes? But one landed on his hand: a fleck of paper. And now the ripping buzz of the saw was still louder, and there was also the sound of a giant vacuum cleaner... Brrrap! A tree shredder! Ahead of him, everything was empty bookcases, skeletons. Robert went to the end of the aisle and walked toward the noise. The air was a fog of floating paper dust. In the fourth aisle, the space between the bookcases was filled with a pulsing fabric tube. The monster worm was brightly lit from within. At the other end, almost twenty feet away, was the worm's maw - the source of the noise... The raging maw was a "Navicloud custom debinder." The fabric tunnel that stretched out behind it was a "camera tunnel..." The shredded fragments of books and magazines flew down the tunnel like leaves in a tornado, twisting and tumbling. The inside of the fabric was stiched with thousands of tiny cameras. The shreds were being photographed again and again, from every angle and orientation, till finally the torn leaves dropped into a bin just in front of Robert.

From Rainbows End, by Vernor Vinge.  Published by Tor in 2006

[Madelaine McMasters]

29 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

The shredded fragments of books and magazines flew down the tunnel like leaves in a tornado, twisting and tumbling.

I recently had some dead/dying trees cut down. As I do, I took the opportunity to inquire about and play with the machines they brought to do the job. After years of plucking labels out of the mulch I get each year to landscape around my home, I thought I'd try a little experiment. I tossed a couple old books into the shredder, just to see what would happen. As I suspected, they survived the ordeal far better than the trees. If I'd dropped a pile of the resulting tree/book mulch into your hands, you've have been hard pressed to determine what kind of trees had participated, but you would have quickly identified the book pages, and probably the nature of the book they'd come from.

And, although it's not true, I'm going to claim, for the benefit of @Amina Sopwith, that one of the books I tossed in the chipper was John Norman's "Slave Girl of Gor".

It's the least I could do for you, Amina.

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I love the idea of people sitting in front of screens, watching their second selves sitting in front of screens watching...

Ooh a screenception, sounds interesting. Lol

[Amina Sopwith]

50 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

And, although it's not true, I'm going to claim, for the benefit of @Amina Sopwith, that one of the books I tossed in the chipper was John Norman's "Slave Girl of Gor".

It's the least I could do for you, Amina.

I approve. It's the best method of disposal, given that that type of paper is a bit rough and uncomfortable, and has a tendency to get stuck in the U bend. 

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

And, although it's not true, I'm going to claim, for the benefit of @Amina Sopwith, that one of the books I tossed in the chipper was John Norman's "Slave Girl of Gor".

It's the least I could do for you, Amina.

I couldn't do it. Not even to that garbage. Thanks to the strong appreciation and meticulous care of hardbound books my father instilled in me. I can't destroy any book no matter what the content is. 

[Penny Patton]

On 8/19/2019 at 2:13 AM, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

The reality, I'm afraid, is much worse. Second life his not just turning into this, but has already turned into this for some time now.

This is because a lot of people come to SL wanting their own private little space. Not a full sim, or even a homestead, just a private equivalent to a 1024x1024 parcel, but SL doesn't offer anything like that. So instead people turn to skyboxes. Not only that, but the graphics lag at ground level is so bad that if you want any sort of decent framerates when in your own SL home, then a skybox is an absolute must.

 I've been building sims that rely heavily on skyboxes for years. You can do some great things with them, and they only really look ugly if you zoom out, turn up your draw distance, just like any gorgeous videogame map is going to look broken and ugly if you zoom outside the boundaries. I get this makes for cluttered skies, not exactly great for flying through, but that's the trade off for LL failing to offer affordable alternatives. And the reason LL won't even consider offering such an alternative? They're afraid that SL users will do exactly what they're already doing right now, just without all of the sky clutter. It is beyond senseless.