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Reasons Why RP sims fail.

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5 hours ago, ballparkdogg said:

The one sim I roleplayed in I got very little roleplay even from the roleplayers designated as mentors until I left then created a female character.  I had all kinds of roleplay then.  

That's intriguing. What kind of setting was it and what kind of roleplay did you get?

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On 9/21/2019 at 7:50 PM, Selene Gregoire said:

@Amina Sopwith

Oh come on. You can do better than that! 👼

I probably can't. I stole the line about Sir Ranulph Fiennes from Sue Townsend in one of the Adrian Mole books. I'm sure she would have approved. She was an incredibly smart, funny, talented and inspirational woman.

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4 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I probably can't. I stole the line about Sir Ranulph Fiennes from Sue Townsend in one of the Adrian Mole books. I'm sure she would have approved. She was an incredibly smart, funny, talented and inspirational woman.

Nope, not buying that since all your other posts on that topic were so... eloquent.

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4 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Nope, not buying that since all your other posts on that topic were so... eloquent.

Thank you, I do my best. Was that one not on form? I'll try harder. It does depend a bit on the feed lines.

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48 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Thank you, I do my best. Was that one not on form? I'll try harder. It does depend a bit on the feed lines.

It wasn't quite up to your usual standards but I suppose it will do in a pinch. ;)

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9 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

It wasn't quite up to your usual standards but I suppose it will do in a pinch. ;)

Sorry about that. But I doubt we're the first women to whom John Nobhead has brought disappointment.

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I think rp sims might fail because of management issues.  Starting a new RP area is almost like starting a new business.  Just because your a 10 plus veteran of roleplay doesnt mean you can manage a sim.  

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Also some (not all) places, try to be lucrative, without giving much as reward.

and those who do not need to keep something to do. Truly I agree with the idea of "the owner way or no way" as there is needed some ground rules.

Of course if the owner places too many, people will not go. but the same will happen with sims that.

Do not allow to rez anything but do not have enough furniture to play with.

Or they allow to rez but just 5 minutes (and have not enough rezed).

or you have to do a lot of things (like creating an acount on a site) or be too limited on your choices.

Personally i do not go anywhere where you need a special hud even if its free to get. First becaue i am a scripter and as such i know what can be done with them. so i tend to not trust anyone into wearing things. sl is rather secure even so. but I will not risk it.

Second, if you are using something they can move you, or just do a lot of stuff (including forcing animations). 

the last issue is when limit races or situations. so it truly limits what you want to do.

I play as one character and each sim for me is a new planet (or universe). or even region of other planet.

so if i cannot be myself there for any restriction, will just not be there or be ooc only to see around.

and as that I think that a lot of people do the same or similar enough so this kinds of sims end up not having enough people.

 

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Well in my experience and I won't name and shame the sim because it's still around, but the last Star Trek sim I rped at that was highly popular I left because the rules seem to only apply to some and not all. If you weren't part of the behind kissing clicks and/or having the clicky sex with someone on the sim then you were of very little importance. I came to this realization after some drama was started and I presented actual facts on an issue that needed to be resolved and it went unchecked. My job on the sim was in security and if I reported a violation such as a ranking officer having adult relations on sim in the PG areas the situation went unchecked. I could go on and on, but I won't. 🙄

Let's just say that after some years of this and a combination of several issues I finally got tired of it and when a member there tried to start some drama there I finally gave everyone my behind to kiss. Which to be honest it was a long time coming because when you try to quote regulations to someone who's been in every Star Trek gaming community online since the birth of online gaming and ran a ST Fleet comprised of 500 gamers and better you more or less need to actually know what it is your talking about in the first place. lol :D

That being said I have been a part of one SL RP community that sadly is no longer around, but I feel worth mentioning. Sunnydale which was a Buffy The Vampire Slayer RP sim. I RP'ed there on my original avatar Spike and was a GM on the sim. They were really on point there. I have yet to find an RP community on SL that has impressed me nearly as much as they have. Everyone was treated fairly and the rules applied to everyone. They had no expectations and they made you want to be there. It is by far the most enjoyable RP experience I personally have ever had on SL in all my years being a member of the Second Life community. ;)

 

Edited by Velk Kerang
Corrections.
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22 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

Well in my experience and I won't name and shame the sim because it's still around, but the last Star Trek sim I rped at that was highly popular I left because the rules seem to only apply to some and not all. If you weren't part of the behind kissing clicks and/or having the clicky sex with someone on the sim then you were of very little importance. I came to this realization after some drama was started and I presented actual facts on an issue that needed to be resolved and it went unchecked. My job on the sim was in security and if I reported a violation such as a ranking officer having adult relations on sim in the PG areas the situation went unchecked. I could go on and on, but I won't. 🙄

Let's just say that after some years of this and a combination of several issues I finally got tired of it and when a member there tried to start some drama there I finally gave everyone my behind to kiss. Which to be honest it was a long time coming because when you try to quote regulations to someone who's been in every Star Trek gaming community online since the birth of online gaming and ran a ST Fleet comprised of 500 gamers and better you more or less need to actually know what it is your talking about in the first place. lol :D

That being said I have been a part of one SL RP community that sadly is no longer around, but I feel worth mentioning. Sunnydale which was a Buffy The Vampire Slayer RP sim. I RP'ed there on my original avatar Spike and was a GM on the sim. They were really on point there. I have yet to find an RP community on SL that has impressed me nearly as much as they have. Everyone was treated fairly and the rules applied to everyone. They had no expectations and they made you want to be there. It is by far the most enjoyable RP experience I personally have ever had on SL in all my years being a member of the Second Life community. ;)

 

STO is your friend.

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4 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

STO is your friend.

I know, right? lol I thought it was this post, but I guess I mentioned it in another, but you hit the nail right on the head because that's what I basically did. Went right back to playing that in order to get my Beam Me Up Scotty fix for a few hours and keep it moving. lol Less headaches and drama that way. Best comment ever. lol Glad I wasn't taking a drink when I read that. Thanks for that. Lmao!!!! :D

Edited by Velk Kerang
Corrections.

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38 minutes ago, Velk Kerang said:

I know, right? lol I thought it was this post, but I guess I mentioned it in another, but you hit the nail right on the head because that's what I basically did. Went right back to playing that in order to get my Beam Me Up Scotty fix for a few hours and keep it moving. lol Less headaches and drama that way. Best comment ever. lol Glad I wasn't taking a drink when I read that. Thanks for that. Lmao!!!! :D

:)

I've been playing it since beta (I have the Lifetime - so I still go in there a lot). I like the Discovery Era effects the best (especially the Warp in and out). I have too many "alts" there to even think about trying to level them all up. But the stories are the best. Maybe role-players here should go play that and takes some pointers on how story characters interact and then realize that in places like SL: they aren't NPCs, but actually other people.

The basic rule of thumb about role-play in SL is to have as much fun in it as you can and know when to move onto something else, whether it be another role-play scenario/theme/genere or to just take a break from role-playing for a time.

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27 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

:)

I've been playing it since beta (I have the Lifetime - so I still go in there a lot). I like the Discovery Era effects the best (especially the Warp in and out). I have too many "alts" there to even think about trying to level them all up. But the stories are the best. Maybe role-players here should go play that and takes some pointers on how story characters interact and then realize that in places like SL: they aren't NPCs, but actually other people.

The basic rule of thumb about role-play in SL is to have as much fun in it as you can and know when to move onto something else, whether it be another role-play scenario/theme/genere or to just take a break from role-playing for a time.

I agree with everything you said. I have to be honest though I actually didn't get in to STO until after it became free to play. While I love and have enjoyed the game myself it was actually the only ST game we (The Fleet I mentioned earlier.) never planted a flag in. Star Wars Galaxies was our first Non-Trek mmo and game for that matter we ventured in. It ended up becoming our flag ship game at the time as it raised membership numbers in to the several hundreds for us.

We also had an up hill battle because we were the only far as I know Star Trek Gaming Fleet to ever set roots there. We were based on the Kauri server and in the beginning days we a lot of ridicule and we were looked down up on. That was until we made a name for ourselves as being one of the top pvp Rebel guilds on the entire server. We trained the average player to be part of our special elite force unit I dubbed The Death Dealers (From Underworld obviously. lol ) and taught them to implement guerilla warfare tactics in take downs of the most Elite Dark Jedi on the server. Our methods weren't exactly Starfleet protocol mind you, but effective non the less. At that point we earned the respect of the entire server and community because we did what no one else could do.

If you know the story of SWG then you know the tragedy that befell up on it. At this point we were looking for an mmo that delivered that same type of engrossing experience. I vetted STO for obvious reasons and some of our team invested in it to examine it and when I found out what we expected based off what they original described the game as was not exactly the same we kept looking. Which is actually how I came to be a member of Second Life actually. I originally joined vetting this game because of the SW and ST sims to see if it'd make the grade. It didn't once I realized what it was. Player economy at the time was the only plus I could give it. It failed in every other aspect. Plus we had young members at the time and this was not something I'd expose them to. Think we can all agree on that assessment.

Most mmos I find that are out there are that type of substandard mmo and simply doesn't make the grade for gamers looking for the virtual world sandbox mmo experience SWG provided. I have been asked to vette Duel Universe, but having played games like Empyrion and Space Engineer's for example it doesn't strike me as being far to different other then in mmo form. Time will tell if that will make the grade or not.

STO reminds me a lot of SWKOTOR where the game is story line driven. For me personally that is awesome. I can be entertained for hours on it. Aside from the space game portion of it the game really doesn't have that open world content that sandbox gamers need. For the type of game it is I think it is awesome and very beautifully well made which is why I still try to sell it over the years to my mates, but they want that magic mmo game where we can rebuild our city and be great again and I am like look here fellas. This Wookiee/Klingon is getting to old for that mess. I don't have it in me to do it like we did back then. That was a lot of work. lol So now days as far as mmos go I play this, STO, and SWGEmu and I tell them I am in retirement. lol I'll server in an advisory capacity for someone younger who don't mind the sleepless nights.

They get mad sometimes too. lol I told them when I hear the warriors call again I'll know that's the magic moment. That'll be the right game, right time, and/or perhaps even both. They even wanted to give the SWGEmu another shot. Sort of a revival if you will. I told them I am in SWG retirement Ben Kenobi style until the final server wipe happens. lol I logged my wookiee on and went straight to fishing. lol I was like wookiees can't advise on an empty stomach. Lmao!!!! :P

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The only thing I see missing in this, referring to the main post... Is the PRICEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

Life happens and damn 300$ a month to babysit a bunch of people you can never please... people get tired.  

Linden Labs, the price is outrageous for land... it's a *&^%%$ car payment.  It's a ROTH IRA, it's a lot of things.. It's too much for having nothing to show for it when it's gone... 

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13 minutes ago, Beast Admiral said:

The only thing I see missing in this, referring to the main post... Is the PRICEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

Life happens and damn 300$ a month to babysit a bunch of people you can never please... people get tired.  

Linden Labs, the price is outrageous for land... it's a *&^%%$ car payment.  It's a ROTH IRA, it's a lot of things.. It's too much for having nothing to show for it when it's gone... 

I agree! The price is petty much unaffordable for most people on average incomes. I don't think we will ever see sims become cheaper until Linden Labs redistributes its income streams more in favour of things like Premium / Market Place fees etc. 

Of course you can get sims off private landlords like Chung who offers a full sim with 20,000 prims for L$16,999 a week which converts to $65.89. So $263.56 a month. ‬Not much cheaper but still better value. 

 

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On 1/12/2020 at 12:16 PM, Beast Admiral said:

The only thing I see missing in this, referring to the main post... Is the PRICEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

Life happens and damn 300$ a month to babysit a bunch of people you can never please... people get tired.  

Linden Labs, the price is outrageous for land... it's a *&^%%$ car payment.  It's a ROTH IRA, it's a lot of things.. It's too much for having nothing to show for it when it's gone... 

 

On 1/12/2020 at 12:37 PM, brodiak90 said:

I agree! The price is petty much unaffordable for most people on average incomes. I don't think we will ever see sims become cheaper until Linden Labs redistributes its income streams more in favour of things like Premium / Market Place fees etc. 

Of course you can get sims off private landlords like Chung who offers a full sim with 20,000 prims for L$16,999 a week which converts to $65.89. So $263.56 a month. ‬Not much cheaper but still better value. 

 

Theresa Tennyson sighs.

The monthly cost for a private region from Linden Lab was lowered to $229 some time ago.

https://secondlife.com/land/privatepricing.php

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23 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:
On 1/12/2020 at 9:37 AM, brodiak90 said:

I agree! The price is petty much unaffordable for most people on average incomes. I don't think we will ever see sims become cheaper until Linden Labs redistributes its income streams more in favour of things like Premium / Market Place fees etc.

Ironically, you actually call it because that is precisely what they did. They lowered the land use fees and estate region costs first, now they have increased Market Place sales fees to 10%, have increased the costs to bob Linden Dollars to 1.50 per transaction, increased the cost to sell Linden Dollars, increased the cost to cash-out (transfer any RL dollars to your bank) - and have focussed on the new Linden Homes, increasing premium subscriptions and early this year will announce a new tier of Premium, currently thought to be called Premium Plus.

So you basically nailed it in terms of how such would unfold.

I know, my comment is off-topic, but there isn;t much more to say on the topic as it has been well-covered already. I expect this threat to slowly sink into the depths of time and die a slow, quiet death.

Edited by Alyona Su
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On 1/12/2020 at 5:37 PM, brodiak90 said:

Of course you can get sims off private landlords like Chung who offers a full sim with 20,000 prims for L$16,999 a week which converts to $65.89. So $263.56 a month. ‬Not much cheaper but still better value. 

Blimey, I was letting out a full region for L$13,900 per week.

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$229 USD = $331 AUD so that is still a car payment for some of us. The so-called reduction in price (what was it? $20?) doesn't translate well enough over here to warrant investment, at least not here in Australia - though my best friend in the UK gets $175 to my $331 so it is a more viable option for her. Don't forget that just purchasing a region isn't the only cost involved; relocation (for example buying and moving a region away from beside the previous owner's region) used to cost an additional $100 USD, and renaming it (from whatever it used to be called to what you want to call it) cost  another $100. Many years ago when I had my RP region Stormy Valley I paid upwards of $450 USD a month which translated to over $650 AUD for ONE region. Taking $20 USD / $28 AUD off $600+ doesn't help at all. 

I know SL/LL can't control fluctuating markets but I personally cannot justify spending that kind of money on virtual land anymore, especially with the RP climate as it is (which IMHO is vastly different to how it was 8-9 years ago) - and for all the reasons why have all been said on the previous pages here. 

Kudos to those who can. 👍

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I've run 1920s Berlin for a decade, with a little profit, but yes, it is not cheap and it took a lot of time, effort and money to move to a full region and to start my second sim in a full region but you sort of have to.
Even with the lower price we have now, it still is a pile of dosh.
Remember that once you rent the region it takes you at least a month, mostly more to get it up and running, which means you will have little to no income being generated from it for that amount of time.
And that is not even counting all the textures you need to upload at 10 linden a piece, the rental system you may need to buy, buildings, roads, trees, etc, etc.
And even after you made this substantial investment you still have to hope people actually want to live there or tip you enough to keep you out of the red.

But I doubt anyone gets actually paid properly for running a RP sim compared to the huge amount of work and time you put into it.

I do think tier will go down eventually, LL knows it has to and is moving their profit system away from land related land to sales sort of taxes and so on.
LL is also moving to the cloud which would make running SL cheaper for LL and hopefully we see that reflected in lower tier.

LL knows that if tier is lower more people will rent sims and thus create more experiences and thus make SL more interesting and appealing.

But we can only hope.

 

 

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An interesting thread. I've been contemplating building a historic themed sim, but was reluctant because of previous experience with smaller communities, it always felt like what I had done was not *enough*, even after a lot of time and money was put into it. I think people forget that for sim owners, they are here for the fun, just like anyone else, and being constantly told what you did wrong and what people want YOU to pay for gets old. I think this has convinced me to just give up the idea.

Edited by Gareth Kanarik
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Why not start small?
That's what I did with 1920s Berlin, a sim that's been going strong for over a decade now.
Many sims make the mistake to start big, get a full region, spend a fortune on buildings and stuff and then assume that the first waves of visitors will keep coming.

I started with a small skybox in a rented region on the mainland, just a square, a club and a few shops.
Then when there was enough interest I added a few apartments for people to rent.
The sim did not expand unless I was pretty sure there would be interest from people to rent the new houses, shops, etc.
I couldn't afford to run a sim as a charity, I tried to at the very least break even on costs/income from day one.
With a small location this is very do-able and you can always expand when the sim works or cut back when it doesn't.

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2 hours ago, Jo Yardley said:

Many sims make the mistake to start big, get a full region, spend a fortune on buildings and stuff and then assume that the first waves of visitors will keep coming.

That's very true. 

I want to add that as bigger the city is, as easier people get lost. No one meets other people as they are all scattered around the place. There are several cafes and clubs, while just one would be much better .. at least in the very beginning.  Also, what puts me personally off often, all those public places are often very loveless decorated and do not give much chance to dive in and to immerse very much. I have only so much imagination. 

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Yes good point, keep all the community activities in one area, one region is more than enough.
I have seen sims die that had several regions which made them always appear empty but also meant people would hang out with friends and not know or visit other regions to see what was happening there.

Even though my 1920s Berlin sim is pretty much fully rented I always decided to keep it all in one region and it works.
I did add a few homesteads for those people who want to live in a villa in the park in stead of the city but there are no or very rarely any events there.
Keep it all in one region and don't overdo it on the social venues, you don't need a dozen clubs.

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