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Steronum

What are your expectations for our Second Life?

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Posted (edited)

With all the new technological developments, virtual reality is getting closer to reality every day, especially with Neuralink's new advances in brain preservation and the imminent possibility of mimicking the 100 trillion neuronal connections of the brain to enable its preservation.

When I remember, Dr. Hannah Critchlow said that if a computer could be built to recreate the 100,000 billion connections in the brain, it would be possible to exist forever in a program.

Now, I expect Second Life to be properly updated to really become a part of our SECOND LIFE and YOU, What are your expectations for our Second Life?

Edited by Steronum

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Posted (edited)

The movies Avatar, Matrix and Surrogates come to mind every time when a topic like this shows in a discussion, yet they do not exactly reflect how it would feel, because they both operate in real, physical world despite the connection between "operator" and "unit" or "entity" that is operated with his/her mind - that's consciousness transfer (okay, Matrix kind of bent that, but no spoilers ~). A full mind transfer/link then? I would expect from that to be safe for the said mind - so, I'd like to have my brain to not be hacked and "convinced" that I like [random real life product] for example. ;) Old "Questworld" cartoon explored that topic a little bit, when minds of the travellers got corrupted and returned to their real bodies rendering them... a bit different (okay, they were monkeys ~). It would also be nice to somehow alter the clock on which such "life" would be running, slow it down/ speed it up for the mind inside the simulation accordingly; In Second Life currently every four hours a new day emerge and we perceive it as that, so it would be nice to actually live a full day in SL and feel it like that, have time of actual 24 hours to do stuff, when in real, first, life, only four hours would pass. For some it would be somewhat a time compression device that would allow to "be around" relatively longer, too.

Permanently moving into a simulation, leaving body forever behind? This could be a dream of many people. Species / gender / appearance swap wouldn't be easier, yet, it would be quite complicated. And expensive. You'd need to work in said virtual life even harder than in real life to pay off the electricity and database storage bills, otherwise you would be just shut down. ;)

Quote

Most computational neuroscientists tend to estimate human storage capacity somewhere between 10 terabytes and 100 terabytes, though the full spectrum of guesses ranges from 1 terabyte to 2.5 petabytes. (One terabyte is equal to about 1,000 gigabytes or about 1 million megabytes; a petabyte is about 1,000 terabytes.) - https://slate.com/technology/2012/04/north-koreas-2-mb-of-knowledge-taunt-how-many-megabytes-does-the-human-brain-hold.html

On the other hand... you may already be a part of Second Life simulation and just forgot about it! :P
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis

Quote

The simulation hypothesis or simulation theory proposes that all of reality, including the Earth and the universe, is in fact an artificial simulation, most likely a computer simulation. Some versions rely on the development of a simulated reality, a proposed technology that would seem realistic enough to convince its inhabitants the simulation was real.

I would also expect flying to be cool! And throwing physical wooden boxes at people... would this hurt? Or would I be able to disable pain and death for my digital self, per region? ;)

Bonus: How would a Second Life grid crash look like in "real" life / ultra realistic simulation. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIRkqIoE0jg

 

Edited by panterapolnocy
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I wouldn't be using Second Life if I needed to use VR or have it wired into my brain. The former because it makes me sick and the latter because that's a little extreme for a hobby.

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I believe Sansar is a pretty good indication of what Linden Lab is realizing about VR - that the hype was highly hyperbole. Its a thing and it has its niche. I respect that. But I really don't see what the hype is about.

I for one have no interest in anything that requires wearing headgear that is much more than your typical headset.

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1 hour ago, Adam Spark said:

I believe Sansar is a pretty good indication of what Linden Lab is realizing about VR - that the hype was highly hyperbole. Its a thing and it has its niche. I respect that. But I really don't see what the hype is about.

I for one have no interest in anything that requires wearing headgear that is much more than your typical headset.

Ya, sadly it's still a pricey entry for most peeps, thankfully, they were wise enough to make sure desktop wasn't entirely left behind.

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Posted (edited)

Second Life has far too much technical debt to survive into the future. VR is not for Second Life and vice versa, on a very technical level.

Similarly, to "exist forever in a computer" is misleading. Even if we had the technology to create a perfect copy of your mind, your life will still end when your brain dies. That perfect copy running on a computer is not an extension of you, it is an entirely separate person with your memories. Other people may be able to enjoy your preservation, but you won't.

My expectation for SL specifically is for it to largely carry on as it has been, maybe for another 10-15 years, until it's superceded by something better or the current death-spiral somehow picks up. 

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Second Life has far too much technical debt to survive into the future. VR is not for Second Life and vice versa, on a very technical level.

Similarly, to "exist forever in a computer" is misleading. Even if we had the technology to create a perfect copy of your mind, your life will still end when your brain dies. That perfect copy running on a computer is not an extension of you, it is an entirely separate person with your memories. Other people may be able to enjoy your preservation, but you won't.

My expectation for SL specifically is for it to largely carry on as it has been, maybe for another 10-15 years, until it's superceded by something better or the current death-spiral somehow picks up. 

There was some serious thought put into this one at some point, what if instead of a copy, you where wired to a machine and your neural connections progressively moved over to the machine for example?

Edited by Kyrah Abattoir

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

There was some serious thought put into this one at some point, what if instead of a copy, you where wired to a machine and your neural connections progressively moved over to the machine for example?

Speaking as someone totally uneducated on the subject, I don't believe you could "move your neural connections over to the machine over time." Maybe, but as things are right now (I don't mean technologically but our definition of the mind), I don't think you can do away with the brain without losing the mind. You could absolutely do away with the body if you could still keep alive the brain, at least.

To clarify the distinction a bit -- what is "you" is the byproduct of how your brain processes its environment. Your skin, muscles, organs, or skeleton is not you. The closest thing to the physical you is just your brain, everything else is a mechanism for self-preservation of the brain. Moving your brain onto a machine is probably similar to the Ship of Theseus. Is it still the same "you" after the transition or did "you" die somewhere along the way? Maybe that can't be answered and it's as irrelevant as the fact that all of your body tissue is replaced multiple times over your lifespan, but your perception of yourself is continuous. I only believe that creating a perfect simulation of someone's brain is not the same person.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator

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a electronic brain would have to continue to think that it is the person

a way it could work would be to keep the brain alive. Then over a period of time (however long or short the time might be) there is a fusion process. Replacing the organic parts with the electronics. The person would not notice this happening. Their brain would continue to function normally. At the end of the process the electronic brained person would think they are still themselves 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

That perfect copy running on a computer is not an extension of you, it is an entirely separate person with your memories.

How about gradually replacing each part of your body with a technological counterpart?

Nvm, I just read the Theseus part below now too.

Edited by Arduenn Schwartzman

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2 minutes ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

How about gradually replacing each part of your body with a technological counterpart?

 I don't understand the point of the question. We can already replace every vital organ in your body with a machine to keep your brain alive. They can breathe for you, they can circulate your blood for you, and we can feed you paste through a tube. You are still you at that point.

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Not to be a killjoy but I have no desire to become part of a machine.  When it's my time to fall off the twig of life, I like to think I will return to the stardust from whence I came.  I won't delve into any spiritual thoughts cause those conversations get messy.

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4 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

That perfect copy running on a computer is not an extension of you, it is an entirely separate person with your memories.

"Remember when you were six? You and your brother snuck into an empty building through a basement window. You were going to play doctor. He showed you his, but when it got to be your turn you chickened and ran; you remember that? You ever tell anybody that? Your mother, Tyrell, anybody? Remember the spider that lived outside your window? Orange body, green legs. Watched her build a web all summer, then one day there's a big egg in it. The egg hatched..."

"The egg hatched...and a hundred baby spiders came out... and they ate her.

"Implants. Those aren't your memories, they're somebody else's. They're Tyrell's niece's."

tenor.gif?itemid=3294347

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

There was some serious thought put into this one at some point, what if instead of a copy, you where wired to a machine and your neural connections progressively moved over to the machine for example?

I imagine that this would be possible at some time in the future of humanity, and I think there could potentially be a lot of pluses to existing in a virtual environment instead of in our bodies in the 'real' world. And I think future generations will be  more open to the idea than now (for a variety of reasons).

  • No need for food as we know it. Probably could go to synthesised nutrition to keep the brain alive. So no farming of the land or killing of animals needed.
  • The planet could be left to grow naturally (i.e. no farming, deforestation, no pollution of rivers etc.) since there would be either no or very few people actively living in it as we are now. And we would be less likely as a whole to be affected by the natural world since the world's population could fit in a relatively small area (computer space) compared to now (could even be underground)
  • A virtual environment would give us potentially large numbers of possible worlds to live in. We could have everything from fantasy, sci-fi, to historic or modern worlds or lands in which to exist. Thus more opportunities for different experiences if people wanted them. You could live as a Viking, a princess, Victorian, maybe even non-human form if you wanted to. Maybe even choose to live part of your life as one thing then another as something else.
  • More potential for equal standards of living and opportunities. We would have the opportunity to set up the world(s) so that everyone has a home etc., clothing etc. We wouldn't need to have the reliance on income or have wealth disparities since it's much cheaper to give everyone a home , car, land, etc. in a virtual world than in real life. No one would need to lack anything . No feeling cold, hungry, disease, illness etc. (unless intentionally part of that environment that people choose to be in). People could of course still have 'jobs' as many may still want that. But others could spend their time explore things they are interested in or their passions in life more easily as money wouldn't need to be a barrier any more. So more potential for satisfying or rewarding lives.
  • You could even have worlds or lands where those who want to exist in say more aggressive or negative environments could chose to do so, and thus not affect those who don't. E.g realms for criminals, war or battle realms etc. And the opposite too, realms of peace and harmony.

There are so many potential positives compared to living in a body in this world I could go on and on. That's not to say I've thought through every detail lol! I'm sure there are aspects I've not touched on here, or even thought of yet,  but I think if done correctly a virtual environment could solve many of our current problems in the world because of the reduction of limitations we have now.

I think it's a really interesting topic!!

 

Edited by Evangeline Arcadia

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But what if RL is a perfect virtual world?

If it is, we'll get to know in the end.

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1 hour ago, Evangeline Arcadia said:

I imagine that this would be possible at some time in the future of humanity, and I think there could potentially be a lot of pluses to existing in a virtual environment instead of in our bodies in the 'real' world. And I think future generations will be  more open to the idea than now (for a variety of reasons).

  • No need for food as we know it. Probably could go to synthesised nutrition to keep the brain alive. So no farming of the land or killing of animals needed.
  • The planet could be left to grow naturally (i.e. no farming, deforestation, no pollution of rivers etc.) since there would be either no or very few people actively living in it as we are now. And we would be less likely as a whole to be affected by the natural world since the world's population could fit in a relatively small area (computer space) compared to now (could even be underground)
  • A virtual environment would give us potentially large numbers of possible worlds to live in. We could have everything from fantasy, sci-fi, to historic or modern worlds or lands in which to exist. Thus more opportunities for different experiences if people wanted them. You could live as a Viking, a princess, Victorian, maybe even non-human form if you wanted to. Maybe even choose to live part of your life as one thing then another as something else.
  • More potential for equal standards of living and opportunities. We would have the opportunity to set up the world(s) so that everyone has a home etc., clothing etc. We wouldn't need to have the reliance on income or have wealth disparities since it's much cheaper to give everyone a home , car, land, etc. in a virtual world than in real life. No one would need to lack anything . No feeling cold, hungry, disease, illness etc. (unless intentionally part of that environment that people choose to be in). People could of course still have 'jobs' as many may still want that. But others could spend their time explore things they are interested in or their passions in life more easily as money wouldn't need to be a barrier any more. So more potential for satisfying or rewarding lives.
  • You could even have worlds or lands where those who want to exist in say more aggressive or negative environments could chose to do so, and thus not affect those who don't. E.g realms for criminals, war or battle realms etc. And the opposite too, realms of peace and harmony.

There are so many potential positives compared to living in a body in this world I could go on and on. That's not to say I've thought through every detail lol! I'm sure there are aspects I've not touched on here, or even thought of yet,  but I think if done correctly a virtual environment could solve many of our current problems in the world because of the reduction of limitations we have now.

I think it's a really interesting topic!!

 

It sounds great, as a recreational option. Not as a replacement for life in the real world. That would put humanity in a stop, and probably decay as there would be no more need for progress, development, human interaction (procreating) and so on.

This is a nice article about the dangers of this concept: https://medium.com/short-bytes/artificial-intelligence-will-be-the-end-of-humanity-but-not-for-the-reasons-you-think-482fbfa6858f

 

 

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On 8/4/2019 at 6:59 PM, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Second Life has far too much technical debt to survive into the future. VR is not for Second Life and vice versa, on a very technical level.

It would be easier to fix the technical debt problem than to get a critical mass of users on a new platform. See: Sansar, High Fidelity, SineSpace, Sominium Space, Worlds Adrift... None got to a profitably large user base.

The technical debt doesn't get fixed because SL has a tiny dev team.

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Basically the matrix, only not evil.

If I could stay there with my partner 100% of the time, as a prospective retiree; I’d be there.

giphy.gif?cid=8fc3c8975d49032768374a7732

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