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Nika Talaj

Belli impacts: Private Estates and Mainland

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I remember when LHs first came out, to much fanfare.  The private estate owners I knew were very unhappy about it; they saw LHs as siphoning off all new residents from estates.  And, even tho the LH sims were less than spectacular, I think that happened.   Use of the Community  Gateways that many estate owners had created to welcome newbies fell off dramatically.  Without a steady stream of newbies, and with land pricing becoming less advantageous, private estates have not been growing.

What do you think Belli will do to occupancy of mainland and private estates?

Many of the oldbies I see here in the forums, and inworld even, are keeping their other land holdings for the moment.  And there are a LOT of oldbies in Belli.  So much so that I really wonder how many newbies are here!  Only LL knows.  Surely the fervor around Belli will die down once it's built out and we're no longer partying with Moles in Belli chat.  But, will it still be a fun and exciting community then?  If so, we may see many oldbies downsizing other holdings.

Belli may turn out to actually help SL retention overall.  With its prettiness, safety, plentiful rez zones, interestingly interconnected waterways, extensive riding/walking paths, and 'easter eggs' here and there ... it's a sort of tourist destination.  I think that mainlanders and estate-dwellers who like where they currently dwell may still visit Belli to sail and wander. 

Your thoughts?

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I don't think it will have much effect at all. I haven't heard any estate owners (including on the estates where I work as estate manager) even mention it, to be honest.

There will always be a market for people who want more freedom than having a Linden home gives them, whether it's to rez the house of their choice, have a larger (or smaller) parcel, have a commercial space, etc. I didn't give up any of my Mainland or estate parcels for the sake of my new Bellisseria homes. This is just one option for me. It's not the only option. I expect many others will feel the same, particularly as time passes and the shiny wears off the new homes.

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I visit the area and it is nice to wander around. I like watching it being built. But it can't replace the shop space I have on the mainland, so I wouldn't abandon my mainland. If I had extra tier, and if they added a fantasy theme, I might get a house in addition to my current mainland... but the homes are never going to be the primary location for people who want to run shops.

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I have owned my own region for many years and have no thoughts of giving it up or of becoming Premium to qualify for a Bellisseria home. I love exploring, though.  Even after the Moles have finally built it out to full capacity, I expect the continent to continue evolving, so there will always be reasons to wander around.  This is the first large, modern landmass in recent SL history.

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I have always had a Linden house ever since I went premium.  I went premium mostly because I wanted to buy land the LH was just a bonus.  These newer homes don't change anything for me other than having a nicer LH.  I have no intentions of getting rid of my mainland parcel.   I still enjoy the chaos of mainland and have always used the LH as a place for some peace and quiet.

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I usually have a combination of mainland, linden home and a parcel on a small estate, so the only thing I gave up to get a new LH home was my old LH.  I have subsequently abandoned my new LH houseboat and expanded my mainland holdings by 1024 sqm.

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Before Bellisseria I lived mostly on Mainland and the old Linden Homes. Since April 15th, 2019 I have lived exclusively in Bellisseria from hour one in a houseboat and then switched to a traditional home. TBH I have lately loved exploring Bellisseria but I started missing the free, unpredictability of the mainlands. I have been wandering back to mainland to explore.

I see Bellisseria slowly calming down and the excitement seems to be slowly leaving and normality settling in. I found the houseboats too close together and the Traditional homes does not suit my style so I have moved to the sky in a skybox with a treehouse of my own choosing etc. I am waiting to see what other style homes will be released and holding out hope there are mountain cabins or something more rustic. If not I fear in time I may move back to the wild, unpredictable frontiers of the vast Mainlands with endless roads which reveal vastly different surprises around every corner.

In the beginning my alt roleplayed as the original Bellesseria cat and I found myself slowly giving up on that character as not as many people are around the roads exploring to surprise with my character. The Bellisseria Cat began years ago on Mainland as a Mainland Cat. Things in Bellisseria are settling down. I do think in time, maybe 2 or 3 years that Bellisseria will quiet down to the level of the old Linden Homes.

Don't want to be a downer but things change.

Snapshot_001.jpg

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I've never had a LH before Bellisseria.. I have almost always *owned* mainland, from day 1. I no longer own mainland, but me giving it up for Bellisseria doesn't affect estate owners, it just creates more abandoned land. I do rent a homestead, and will continue to do so. That's sort of a whole different category from parcel usage. Estate owners who rent out parcels, I'm not sure how much they'd be affected, since it's mostly non-premium members who rent those. With the price hike in premium now, I think perhaps the renter numbers won't change much.

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I've never has a place on a private estate - even my rentals in my first few months were on the Mainland.  I become premium within my first couple of weeks, but didn't buy land for a bit while I got a feel for things.  Since the day I first bought Mainland, I think I've only ever been without land a couple of times for no more than a week or two at a time.  I've owned anywhere from 512 sqm up to 1/2 region throughout my years.  I currently have a Bellisseria Houseboat and a Traditional House, but I also still have some Mainland.  I did decrease the size of my Mainland due to reducing the number of Premium accounts that I want to pay for - because of the price increase and misc RL stuff.

Given all of that, there are a lot of folks that have come to the forums and specifically said that they became Premium because of these new Linden Homes. My guess is that many of those people would be renting on Estates if not for that.  So yeah, there will likely be some impact, but I'm not sure it will be huge.  The original Linden Homes did cause a bit of an impact on Estates, but it wasn't a huge impact then either.  The real impact on estate rentals is the lack of growth in SL Residents overall.

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I have not cared about owning land. I have "bought" from estates. It says "buy" land, but in real, it's a rental. Never saw the need for an old LH.

That changed when LL increased the free tier to 1024, and also added some LI to the land. I became a Mainland owner. I really liked Mainland, and even if I lived some places with real eyesores, I derender it or just look another way.

I got a Bellisseria home because I like the look of it. It has the beauty and the control as a privately owned estate, and it feels safe - LL owning it, no middle man. I don't get as much freedom as I want, but it has inspired me to do some things I thought I would never do. As downloading Blender. If I wanted different colored walls, I had to make some....

I don't think Bellisseria will be "for ever" for me. We shall see what the future brings. I think @Ziggy Starsmithis right, it will cool down when there is made more houses. Or if LL announces something so tempting, that it is the new thing people want and obsess over.

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Besides ma Bellisseria Home I am renting a small cottage in the Ville de Coer with only 131 Prims to furnish it and I am going to keep that as a country ressort because the landscape there is still more beautiful then Bellisseria. It looks like the french countryside and they have seasons, autumn, winter, spring, summer all decorated differently all over the various sims.

In winter I want SNOW - lots of it! And I cannot have that (for good reasons) in Bellisseria, so I keep my cottage.

And with the stipend of my premium accounts I can pay the cottage easily.

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15 minutes ago, Leora Jacobus said:

Besides ma Bellisseria Home I am renting a small cottage in the Ville de Coer with only 131 Prims to furnish it and I am going to keep that as a country ressort because the landscape there is still more beautiful then Bellisseria. It looks like the french countryside and they have seasons, autumn, winter, spring, summer all decorated differently all over the various sims.

In winter I want SNOW - lots of it! And I cannot have that (for good reasons) in Bellisseria, so I keep my cottage.

And with the stipend of my premium accounts I can pay the cottage easily.

Thanks for that link! I love exploring well-designed estates, so will have to go have a peek at that one. 

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Is Bellisseria forever? Well, no... neither were the first Linden Homes as we can clearly see now since they're being replaced by Bellisseria. If talking about it as a home, it's also not intended to be forever. They weren't really intended for us, the oldbies, in the first place. 

Personally, I hope with the success of Bellisseria among the older residents, LL is learning that we want something like this and will continue to expand upon the idea in the future. A continent with larger homes, larger parcels, more LI, and the same covenant. I could buy some mainland as it is now, yes, but I really don't want to live on a chopped up piece of pie with god knows what next door to me that could change at anytime to something even more obnoxious. 

I've paid money to landlords for years in SL. I'd much rather pay that directly to LL and get something beautiful in return. A lot of landlords tend to be rather loose with their enforcement of their own rules, and even when people are following the rules, their own personal tastes can be quiet tacky. At least if LL is providing the home, I can be guaranteed that the structure itself won't be an assault on the eyes. 

I'm also not sure what sort of mini-computers people are running, but I don't experience lag at all on Bellisseria unless I'm trying to run super ultra graphics with my draw distance set at the maximum, or when a neighbor on my region is throwing a party, and he's kind enough to do that during times when he knows his neighbors are usually not around. 

My point is, I guess, can we let Bellisseria reach the ripe old age of 6 months before we start predicting her immanent demise?

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My problem with mainland is I can't get enough. My tier keeps going up, and up, and waaay up. The more I have, the more I want. 

If I can stick to Belli, I'm going to save enough to help pay for a new car. Now, THAT's ridiculous.

 

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It will have an effect, though not on what many may think. First, no one needs a home in SL, neither do we starve, or become exhausted for lack of sleep and all the rest. So there are two types of home-owners (not land owners, but home-owners) - those who just want a nice place they can call home and those who want the Bill gates Mansion (has anyone seen the style of laughably-large yachts making the scene lately?)

There are those who want to have a home, but never spend anything other than Linden Dollars (even though you can do Premium on Linden Dollars,) these will be the renters. Then there are those who go Premium want to own their own place, having the benefits of that (no one can ever eject you or even tell you that you cannot do something) - then of those there are the ones who just want a nice little shangri-la; a little Linden Governamce in the management of the place.

Bellisseria like somewhat like a "managed estate" but also not rented; you *own* that land and no one can ever kick you out. So the only real affect Bellisseria can have on rental estates will be with those jumping into Premium accounts because if you're premium, why would you throw that (rental) money away?

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The land market fluctuates, and I feel this will just be another blip, if that. I own and rent Mainland and have a Belli home. I've been with the same rental company for years - they're cheap, have great service, and have odd little bits of mainland I find challenging. My main home is there, as I can do a lot more with the prim allotment. (I've always loved the weirder side of Mainland, despite the potential for inconsiderate neighbors.) I own snowland to get my year-round winter fix and don't plan to drop that either. 

I think, until the majority of people who want Belli homes can get them, there won't be much difference. If anything there may be a small boost in sales/rentals... People who cannot get a home will get an older one or use their tier on Mainland while waiting, or rent land. After the Belli newness wears off, I suspect some will shift back over to Mainland or Estate land. Those of us who appreciate the community aspect more than the actual house will hopefully stay and keep it from becoming a ghost town. 

Also, what Morena said regarding rentals is accurate - many of those folks don't have Premium accounts, so the rental business will still have its target market. 

Edited by Hendrix Portal
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Belli would have had a far greater impact on renters had the price for premium had not been raised and in one fell swoop removed the financial incentive for becoming premium over basic and renting. Of course I'm one of the mainlanders who took a look at Bellisaria, then looked at the covenant and said, "Hell NO!  I won't go!" and stayed with the freedom of the mainland.  I have all the community I want in Bay City without being subject to a design experiment to force it.  The price of land in Bay City means that people who own there really have chosen to own there and not spent 100,000L on a whim of the moment.  It may also mean that we are quite insane but at least we are stable and insane.

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I'm just hoping I can change it's name back from B-Lag-issaria sometime too.  Otherwise I can see no point in going there.  I just wish the T&Cs for the mainland stopped the cretins putting up zero-delay security orbs and those terrible photoboxes - that is one of the things LaggyLabs got right in B-Lag.

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14 hours ago, anna2358 said:

I'm just hoping I can change it's name back from B-Lag-issaria sometime too.  Otherwise I can see no point in going there.  I just wish the T&Cs for the mainland stopped the cretins putting up zero-delay security orbs and those terrible photoboxes - that is one of the things LaggyLabs got right in B-Lag.

I think breedables add to the lag issues.  I gave up my home in Emerson Lake last week & bought some mainland.   In Belliseria I was surrounded by horses & crops & little percolating balls of scripts waiting to be born.  They ought to be put in one corner of the map like a smoking section in a restaurant.  Such that I have to go out of my way to be subjected to them.

Edited by Pixie Kobichenko
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10 hours ago, ArgontheDevil Ormega said:

Belli would have had a far greater impact on renters had the price for premium had not been raised and in one fell swoop removed the financial incentive for becoming premium over basic and renting.

Precisely this. First, it was a good business decision to raise the Premium price to match the demand and the Bellisseria "experiment" raised demand. It strikes a very good balance and, in turn, will not have as great an impact on rental estates (and by "rental estates" I mean all rental business, mainland and private estate, etc.).

Looking at the big picture, I'd say everything is well-balanced for minimum negative and maximum positive impact all the way around.

Edited by Alyona Su
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I think Bellisseria will have a negative impact on the privet rental business.  I have rented before and lost my house because one reason or another having nothing to do with me.  Being on Linden land and in a Linden house I feel safe that that will not happen.


Oh wait, I have a house in Meadowbrook and the Linden’s are saying they are going away at some point after Bellisseria and the new homes are all in place.  So not much different from renting in the privet sector, house goes away having nothing to do with me.  The safety aspect of having a Linden home over the privet sector is gone, or will be.

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I'd been renting on a private island for years. The landlord, a friend, was able to grandfather another island into what he owns already so I purchased that from him and can continue to do so as long as I want to pay for it, it's mine.  It's quite a luxury which I enjoy enormously and would find difficult to give up at this point. I've gotten too used to having the flexibility and space to do what I want with.

However, I'm also enjoying living in Bellisseria. It's renewed my overall interest in SL quite a bit and made me much more sociable than I've been in a long time. Living on the island tends to make me a bit of a hermit so right now, I "live" in Belliseria and use the island as my creative outlet for landscaping, decorating spaces and photography shoots.

One of my alts snagged a houseboat early on, with a very good spot directly on open water, a perfect location for sailing.  I got a home thereafter that has been fun to play with and my other premium alt just managed to get a house in Foxbridge today in a much better location than the current home I have (1 block from the beach) so I'm probably tossing that back into the pool for someone else to enjoy. 

I'll most likely continue status quo, throwing my Lindens out to everyone 🤣

Edited by Elora Lunasea
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3 hours ago, Teagan Tobias said:

I think Bellisseria will have a negative impact on the privet rental business.  I have rented before and lost my house because one reason or another having nothing to do with me.  Being on Linden land and in a Linden house I feel safe that that will not happen.


Oh wait, I have a house in Meadowbrook and the Linden’s are saying they are going away at some point after Bellisseria and the new homes are all in place.  So not much different from renting in the privet sector, house goes away having nothing to do with me.  The safety aspect of having a Linden home over the privet sector is gone, or will be.

Except that you have a two-year advanced notice from the Lab, whereas with a rental from another "resident" you could get an offline that all your stuff are now in lost and found because you were ejected from the land and group. So do go ahead and continue to compare apples to oranges, people do it all the time.

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I've been a Premium Member almost from day one of my existance in SL.  Being able to have a home was the primary purpose of becoming a PM at the time.  One thing led to another and I leased a homestead and then a couple years later graduated to a Full region which I now have open to the public [http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Pyrenees Atlantiques/237/6/23  <shameless advertising  

One of my alts has a houseboat on Bellisseria. I have always wanted sailable water.  Another has a traditional, and both parcels challenge my prim hog tendencies.  I will always have a Linden Home or homes.  They are my home away from home, from home :)  They are handy during restarts as well.  I will continue to lease my full region as it is my creative outlet.  There may be somewhat of a decrease in land rental/sales for a time, maybe, but I don't think it will last. 

Edited by Cougar Sangria
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Impact?  Well most everything has an impact in one way or another. One thing that I didn't see mentioned here was that not long after Bellisseria came into being, we were hit with a membership increase -- the cheapest price going from 72US to 99US.  What used to be almost free is no longer. Some of the oldest avatars now are pretty much breaking even (this including the tier payback). And then there was Tilia  -- which while it didn't affect all that many people in the end has had some folks leaving the platform and a fair amount (many of the folks I know) "going back to basic" when their premium subscription is up.    Those things -- within just a few months have also affected private lands.

 

While my group has a 4096 parcel which houses my mainland shop and a "group home", that will be going away in a few months. Meanwhile, for the first time ever -- I now have my own private sim.   For the people who -- A: can't get a Bellisseria home after many months of trying  or B: are no longer paying to be premium  for one reason or another    ...

 

Well private land or renting mainland are the two choices.   Mainland is getting very desolate in places again. Homesteads are selling fast (easy to see when you go to look at them and they have just been taken).  So while Bellisseria may have caused a dip for land barons, the two subsequent changes seem to have balanced that out.  The barons would be the only ones who could say for sure..  

 

 

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