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MichaMoz

Untapped Amenities

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Posted (edited)

Griefing concerns doesnt applies any differnetly from rez zones and sandboxes. If griefers want to grief, they will, and there are ways and places to do it pretty much everywhere already, public lands and private. Support team has grown substantially lately, I am sure the company could handle more turf.

 

Griefing does't seems to be as aggresive as years back, Second Life userbase has grown up, in general 😄

Of course, when you have a world that you can barely use cause everywhere you go you can just stand and not much else, places where you can rez could drag attention. Let's make them normal.

Edited by Seba Serpente
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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, MichaMoz said:

Would this be any different in a rez zone on the Blake Sea, on a road or at one of the lighthouses which already exists?

Yes. The purpose of a rez zone is to rez your vehicle and move on. The purpose of what you are asking for is  "rez your stuff and sit on it so you can avoid autoreturn" (and take up LI we depend upon for something very important.)

So let me put it in no certain terms. We are not going to allow residents to rez in the community areas. It was a stretch getting the Lab to allow us to place public rezzing zones at all, and it is still very much an experiment. If that experiment goes awry from too many places people are rezzing things (for the purposes you described) they may decide to go back to their fall back position: No rezzing anywhere except by residents on their own parcels.

Edited by Abnor Mole
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Instead of asking for rez rights on public land, why not ask creators to make the things you like wearable? If they think there's a profit to make, most are happy to do it. Some will even give you one for free just for coming up with the idea.

It's much more feasible, and doesn't take resources away from where they need to be.

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1 minute ago, Eliza Wrigglesworth said:

Instead of asking for rez rights on public land, why not ask creators to make the things you like wearable? If they think there's a profit to make, most are happy to do it. Some will even give you one for free just for coming up with the idea.

It's much more feasible, and doesn't take resources away from where they need to be.

Wearables are not really ideal.

Avatars have different heights. Since you attach those objects, depending on your height, the object will or will not look correctly positioned. That also depends of what kind of shape you have, not everyone is in human shape.

Wearables adds to the avatar complexity, and that specific issue is actually pretty bad at this moment due to the mesh body and incrediby exesive complex clothing. It just lags everyone around.

Wearables don't have colission, others can't sit on them. It limits the functionality you can get.

If we are talking about furniture, you are pretty much stuck standing or sitting in one spot. It looks ridiculous if you simply try to move around normally.

What kind of platform forces you to be all glitchy around with random objects attached to yourself? Ideally, you should interact with objects on the enviroment, not wear them as fashion.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Seba Serpente said:

Wearables are not really ideal.

Avatars have different heights. Since you attach those objects, depending on your height, the object will or will not look correctly positioned. That also depends of what kind of shape you have, not everyone is in human shape.

Wearables adds to the avatar complexity, and that specific issue is actually pretty bad at this moment due to the mesh body and incrediby exesive complex clothing. It just lags everyone around.

Wearables don't have colission, others can't sit on them. It limits the functionality you can get.

If we are talking about furniture, you are pretty much stuck standing or sitting in one spot. It looks ridiculous if you simply try to move around normally.

What kind of platform forces you to be all glitchy around with random objects attached to yourself? Ideally, you should interact with objects on the enviroment, not wear them as fashion.

My AO disagrees. I can and do have complex and smooth dances and animations with other avies.

And only rigged mesh isn't adjustable for size or position.

I do agree that many wearables are too complex. That's why I never wear them. Creators are capable of making them better, some just don't or won't for whatever reason.

Anyway, I still think is more feasible.

 

Edited by Eliza Wrigglesworth
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1 hour ago, Morena Tully said:

One thing I know, if some people see a way of abusing and breaking things due to the simple fact they can, they most certainly will. That is a guarantee in SL. I've seen it over and over, and region owners have to adjust, making things more prohibitive. It's just a fact of SL, sadly, and I totally get why things are set up how they are. To be any other way, within a week someone would figgure out they could irritate someone. That doesn't even count the ones who would rez sex on the beach or a big cube covering the pool, or whatever you can think up.

And...

4 hours ago, Abnor Mole said:

If we could rely on residents not to abuse the practice, it's not. But that is a very very very big if, and we have to err on the side of caution when it comes to things like houses not rezzing.

That says it all. 

As much as I would love a little freedom or the ability to rez something I know why I can't and I'm good with that. Sure there's been times I want to take my animesh baby to the pool, and I do - I just don't rez her, I carry her instead. Lack of rezzing ability doesn't stop me from visiting the pool, I just adapt. So be it.

It's not even people deliberately abusing any prim allowance or rez rights that's the potential issue; my animesh baby averages 100LI rezzed. Even though she's not offensive or against the ToS or even script heavy (with less scripts and run time than your average attachable pet) would her presence in-world constitute as me abusing the system because she is so LI heavy? What about if someone wanted to rez their own bar with it's many drink dispensers and adult animations and dance balls? Okay, but say you only want to rez a pool float and your own beach towel; that's not a lot of prims or scripts, right? Well what's stopping someone else seeing you use yours and they want to use theirs which may be a few prims or scripts more; who has the right and where do we draw the line? What one person sees as fun or necessary for their visit another is likely to see as abusing the system or hogging resources or prims before we even get into defying ToS and land rating; and all that spells potential headaches where there doesn't need to be. If only we were all considerate and used common sense. We're not and we don't and that's where problems will always arise.

There's nothing that we actually require to use those places exactly as they are right now. Some AO's have a variety of sits built into them with the added ability to add more. We can manually adjust hover heights; we do that for shoes or chairs, why can't we use it for pools? Some poses don't require pose balls but play animations direct from inventory. Other furnishings or props such as chairs or pool floats and such can be attached to the avatar and edited into place. It's all doable without the need for anything else, and the best way for anyone to learn how (for new members or old alike) is to do some research and practice, the same way any of us learn. For those that do want to rez their own anything, or have their quality time with their significant others in a more intimate way, or even fit perfectly in the right height water, that's what your Linden Home is for (or go find a pool in Mainland, or build it yourself, etc). I don't mean to sound argumentative but sloping the pool floor won't help everyone anyway, just those that fit into a general human height discrepancy. What about the child avatars, toddledoos, furries, petities, ogres, and others? There is no-one-sized-fits-all approach. Are we to ask for varying ramps or pools to accommodate these avatar dimensions too and if so where does it stop?

We don't need the Moles or Lindens to give us more of what we already have, that is, to whatever degree, not being utilized to its full potential anyway. 

The amenities are fine as they are. To put it really simply and in the nicest non-offensive way possible, Why fix what ain't broke? 🤔

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First let me restate, I am not saying there is anything wrong with the pool area. As I said at the very beginning of this thread that they are beautiful places. I am however questioning why the community at large does not use it. I began by asking myself why I don't use it and I laid out those reasons along with some solutions that I thought of. What I'm asking the community to weigh in on why they do not use it. So far some people seem to agree that if they could rez their own stuff they would use it more and some people are providing me with many solutions on how I could use it, I appreciate that. The fact remains that these areas seemingly go on unused. Where's the community in these community spaces? I know all about the pickle parties, I've been to a few of them and met many friends there. I'm not trying to pester the Moles or pull them away from building more houses but wondering where my neighbors are and why meeting them in these community areas in so uncommon. Are they sitting in their homes or on their platforms? Are they in group chat or here on the forums? Does it have to be an announced gathering to come out to one of these spaces and meet? Would you for just one day leave your comfort zone and stand around the pool the same as you stand in your living room. Shopping on marketplace, in group chat or on the forums not by yourself but some of us together as a community?

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1 minute ago, MichaMoz said:

First let me restate, I am not saying there is anything wrong with the pool area. As I said at the very beginning of this thread that they are beautiful places. I am however questioning why the community at large does not use it. I began by asking myself why I don't use it and I laid out those reasons along with some solutions that I thought of. What I'm asking the community to weigh in on why they do not use it. So far some people seem to agree that if they could rez their own stuff they would use it more and some people are providing me with many solutions on how I could use it, I appreciate that. The fact remains that these areas seemingly go on unused. Where's the community in these community spaces? I know all about the pickle parties, I've been to a few of them and met many friends there. I'm not trying to pester the Moles or pull them away from building more houses but wondering where my neighbors are and why meeting them in these community areas in so uncommon. Are they sitting in their homes or on their platforms? Are they in group chat or here on the forums? Does it have to be an announced gathering to come out to one of these spaces and meet? Would you for just one day leave your comfort zone and stand around the pool the same as you stand in your living room. Shopping on marketplace, in group chat or on the forums not by yourself but some of us together as a community?

I have a bumper boat game that's a lot of fun to play, and I can put the rezzer out for others to get a boat. I was at a rez area on the water the other night, and asked in group if anyone wanted to come, and no one did. Of course, it was after 11pm SLT, so bad timing on my part. But yes, better planning could make for an awesome pool party. 

I just suck at planning :(

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1 hour ago, MichaMoz said:

First let me restate, I am not saying there is anything wrong with the pool area. As I said at the very beginning of this thread that they are beautiful places. I am however questioning why the community at large does not use it. I began by asking myself why I don't use it and I laid out those reasons along with some solutions that I thought of. What I'm asking the community to weigh in on why they do not use it. So far some people seem to agree that if they could rez their own stuff they would use it more and some people are providing me with many solutions on how I could use it, I appreciate that. The fact remains that these areas seemingly go on unused. Where's the community in these community spaces? I know all about the pickle parties, I've been to a few of them and met many friends there. I'm not trying to pester the Moles or pull them away from building more houses but wondering where my neighbors are and why meeting them in these community areas in so uncommon. Are they sitting in their homes or on their platforms? Are they in group chat or here on the forums? Does it have to be an announced gathering to come out to one of these spaces and meet? Would you for just one day leave your comfort zone and stand around the pool the same as you stand in your living room. Shopping on marketplace, in group chat or on the forums not by yourself but some of us together as a community?

I think you hit the nail on the head there really, there does seem to be a need to call people to gather in these places as opposed to naturally gathering there of their own volition. I think that stems from the perception of being seen as rude or interrupting anyone unless there is a public invitation to do so. That doesn't explain as to why people don't leave their homes and wander to these places much, but there's as many reasons as to why as there are people residing in these homes.

We could speculate that some people aren't naturally sociable and so are probably comfortable inside their walls and cam to enjoy all the pretty places that have been provided for them, and this is putting aside both language barriers and time zone issues that also make communicating in general just that much more difficult. Having the ability to rez would be an incentive for those enjoy getting out or taking photos to post to other sites such as Flickr etc, but I really don't think it would help anyone who doesn't feel comfortable in public spaces in general. Beyond that while the majority of people I have met in Bellisseria have been lovely and welcoming, others have not. There's also the uncertainty about being included in random RP that keeps people indoors. That doesn't include those who are logged in on phones and can't move, or just TP into their homes to change clothes before going to another region. Even as I type this I am at work IRL so my attention won't let me focus on much, so rather than appear ignorant or constantly AFK in public I stand alone at home until I have more free time to actually socialize, and by that point it's early morning SLT and a great percentage of Residents are at that time logged off or asleep. The biggest issue perhaps is that at least for a good percentage of Residents we have previously lived on the mainland and experienced the lack of community there (unless you happen to be fortunate enough to live in a collection of regions that are community oriented). It's not that inconceivable to think after years of experiencing conflict, or never even meeting our neighbours at all, that we would bring that same mentality here to Bellisseria. The fix isn't as simple as changing location; it's going to take time for people to accept things are different here, at least so far, and to whatever level compared to where they have just come from.

Bearing any of that in mind it's no surprise that some people aren't making better use of the amenities. It has to be disheartening for the Moles and Lindens to see. But at the end of the day there's no real expectation that people should have to use them either, just as their isn't an expectation people have to furnish their homes or house boats as much as we collectively would like our neighbours to do so. There's a lot of faux-businesses and parties that are doing their best to draw people out but unless people are paying attention to the forums or members of the relevant groups they're not going to be aware either. Add to that there's also a LOT of places for people to go to as well and more with each new region being released so it's no wonder seeing people is a hit-and-miss affair. 

I do admit there are times when I visit parks and pools only to find no one else there. It gets a little disheartening. But when I stop and think about all the above I realise it's just one of those things we have to live with. If I really want to socialize I can utilize groups and attempt to find others who are awake and available to socialize on my time, but if not I wander around and hope for the best. I think that's really all any of us can do. 

(Also @MichaMoz, sorry if my previous post sounded like a personal attack. It was not my intention. Tensions in the forums and groups over recent months has now reached a point where sharing opinions frequently offends others, even without the intention to do so, which is why I seem to be posting disclaimers on almost every post of late anticipating trouble before it starts. That in itself is another great reason why I personally don't want to go out and socialize in the community anymore whether in world or in chat; my home has become an escape from that and from other people, and maybe I'm not alone in doing so). 😞

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@Abnor Mole Thank you for clearing that up for me. Not aware of all the technical behind the scene stuff. I don't know how servers stack or load - for all I knew the amount of prims able on a sim was an arbitrary number set. ♥ No harm in asking. Thank you for all the work you guys have been doing!  

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I just love to read the forum lol, you guys make my day! 😂

It would be nice to have a few "innocent" couple loungers, and a nice diving board, for sure...but for now, I stick happily to my attachable pool for refreshment 

 

pool_002.jpg

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I thought this was one of those “lines that annoy you most” threads. “Excuse me ma’am, can I tap that amenity?”

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There are a limited amount of pool / beach wearables on the MP.  If you choose those you have your own items and it will eliminate the need to rez on public land.  And if there was enough interest I'm sure a creator can make additional items.

 

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Posted (edited)

My hubby and I absolutely LOVE the pool area in our neighborhood! I walk down there daily with our daughter while she has her afternoon bottle before her nap. Hubby joins us on his days off. We love sitting at the adorable little table and chairs they have. We chat and people watch. Many people have come to the pool area in our visits. Some local members of the community and others just visiting Bellisseria for the first time.

We've also gone swimming in the pool and it is enjoyable. We love it. The Moles have done such a beautiful job on the areas and I never thought I would be living in such a picturesque place. I certainly couldn't afford it before Bellisseria so I'll be happy and thankful for what I have.

Please remember anything worth having takes time. That is actually a good sign because it means it's being done the right way. Patience will get you everywhere in this situation. I'm sorry I've repeated this before, but I find it so true.

Give the Lindens and the Moles a chance to actually get this huge undertaking done because they are so right in making it a priority to get communities built.

Now I would be completely thrilled if they added some diving animations and more variety animations to the chairs, floaties, loungers and towels down the road as has been suggested! That would be awesome. I would love to actually be able to cuddle with my hubby while at the pool area. That can be down the road though. For now I'm so thankful for the things I do have. I'm going to even look into items I can add to my avi. Great suggestion!

Please excuse the fact that I'm an optimistic person by nature which tends to make others a bit queasy at times. ;)😅

Edited by LyricalBookworm
Because apparently my brain has chairs on the mind and needs to not say it once, but twice in the same sentence.
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4 hours ago, RaeLeeH said:

 

The amenities are fine as they are. To put it really simply and in the nicest non-offensive way possible, Why fix what ain't broke? 🤔

I was going to post to say, it'd be nice BUT, most of the items the moles have placed in public places already have animations in them. I've sat on many of them and they are just fine.  And often, as you said prior, you can use your own AO with its forced sits, to give yourself more animations to choice from.  I've been using what the moles created in public places and I'm glad we have them.  Enjoy what they've given us. Its pretty nice stuff. :) 

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4 hours ago, Eliza Wrigglesworth said:

I have a bumper boat game that's a lot of fun to play, and I can put the rezzer out for others to get a boat. I was at a rez area on the water the other night, and asked in group if anyone wanted to come, and no one did. Of course, it was after 11pm SLT, so bad timing on my part. But yes, better planning could make for an awesome pool party. 

I just suck at planning :(

omg I looove those bumper boats. Next time you plan to rezz them out, hit me up. Cian and I will come to play a game, riding those.

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I also want to mention, perhaps go by Vista animations. Check out their couples hud for a means to cuddle in public areas. They are PG rated, I believe. I have used my Vista AO at the Pirate DJ events, where you can't rez objects, to do couples dances with my husband and it works out nicely. Takes a little practice to face each other and line up, but once you start it up, I love it.  Good solution to have couples animations in no rez zones. Just be mindful to use PG/moderate animations, so you don't get the Bellissera PD called on you for indecent configuration. 😂

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I'm not sure that people not using the pools has much to do with the lack of rezz options or animations. 

I think it's because the vast majority of us are introverts and also not new to SL.

This issue isn't unique to Bellisseria. Other than a few adult places, pools like this in communities are always empty unless there is an event going on. I wouldn't mind hanging out at one of the pools (a few more animations in the towels and chairs would be lovely, but I'm spoiled and used to having far more than I actually need in everything I own) but I wouldn't really want anyone else around because they're going to want to talk and be all chatty and no, thank you. I also don't really give a hoot about listening to other people's local chat. 

Bellisseria isn't what anyone thought it would be. It's certainly not the starter homes Patch originally planned. Most of us are quite elderly in SL terms, and aren't planning on going anywhere. He's just going to have to come up with something else for the noobs... lol. I think once the housing demand is met, there will be a chance to rethink some of the original plans they had and adjust them for the actual population that has descended. Making alterations to the public areas may be one of those things. Noobs would be perfectly happy with just having a couple animations since they don't know any better. 

The possibilities are endless, but I think it's quite clear that right now, nearly 100% of the Moles' Bellisserian efforts need to be concentrated on housing. 

It's also worth considering that for the economy of SL, people actually need to leave Bellisseria sometimes. Yes, we shop and put stuff in our places, but we also need to be out on the grid visiting other venues. I know I've isolated myself on Bellisseria for the last few months. Haven't felt the need or desire to venture much beyond its borders for anything other than shopping events or popping out to buy the odd knick-knack or couch for my houseboat. That's a slippery slope for us introverts. 

As for making the pools sloped? I dunno, maybe going forward. Not something I'd want them to spend any time going back to fix at the moment when they could be working on housing. 

I think it's awesome to brainstorm things for the future of Bellisseria and I think the Lindens and Moles are happy to consider anything we come up with, but I don't expect them to actually put any of those things into their plans until everyone who wants a house or boat or trailer or whatever the other upcoming themes are. 

I also think that when the reasons why something can't be done are explained to us by a Linden or Mole, it's nice if we back down and accept that they know more than we do about the logistics and technology behind this planning. 

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3 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I also think that when the reasons why something can't be done are explained to us by a Linden or Mole, it's nice if we back down and accept that they know more than we do about the logistics and technology behind this planning. 

THIS ^^

If it wouldn't hopelessly bog down their work, I might wish for a "ride along with a Mole" program where people who think they know how things should be done could see what all really goes on behind the scenes in building these huge scale projects for SL. You can't possibly know what all is involved unless you have seen for yourself, or at the very least, spoken at length with a Mole about the processes, the restrictions they operate under, etc. (Yes, I *have* done that, so I'm not just talking out of my behind here.)

I am not seriously asking for this, BTW, because ain't nobody got time for that, least of all our very busy Moles. I do, however, wish that everyone would accept that we don't know it all about what they do and how they have to do it, and when we are told "no", we accept it and go outside and enjoy our shiny new continent and appreciate it for what it is.

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Posted (edited)

Funny how everyone seems to have ideas what would make those places more attractive - because honestly, even with rez allowed I doubt it would boost their use very much.

Edited by Fionalein
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32 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

If it wouldn't hopelessly bog down their work, I might wish for a "ride along with a Mole" program where people who think they know how things should be done could see what all really goes on behind the scenes in building these huge scale projects for SL. You can't possibly know what all is involved unless you have seen for yourself, or at the very least, spoken at length with a Mole about the processes, the restrictions they operate under, etc. (Yes, I *have* done that, so I'm not just talking out of my behind here.)

 

I don't even pretend to know how things are done but I would LOVE this. The night Abnor invited everyone to chat and ask questions on a developing region was great, and I was hopeful for more impromptu Q&A such as that. The more people know, the more they grasp the enormity of such a large-scale operation (and the less likely they are to complain. Or am I being far too optimistic there?)

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17 minutes ago, Hendrix Portal said:

I don't even pretend to know how things are done but I would LOVE this. The night Abnor invited everyone to chat and ask questions on a developing region was great, and I was hopeful for more impromptu Q&A such as that. The more people know, the more they grasp the enormity of such a large-scale operation (and the less likely they are to complain. Or am I being far too optimistic there?)

Oh, I am sure there would still be complaints, there always are. But the more reasonable folks might learn a thing or two and understand better how it all works, and that would be a win.

If there was time to do this (and there isn't, right now at least), and if everyone would go into it with an open mind (and not with chips on shoulders firmly in place, thinking that they have superior knowledge to those actually doing the work), then it could be a mutually beneficial process.

The problem is that it would likely turn into a pile on by know-it-alls and a huge waste of time for the Moles, which is why I'm not really requesting that this happen. This is why we can't have nice things, as they say. It is a happy fantasy, though...

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7 hours ago, Eliza Wrigglesworth said:

I have a bumper boat game that's a lot of fun to play, and I can put the rezzer out for others to get a boat

 

OMG bumper boats!  /me glances at the bumper car game that's been burning a hole in her inventory since before Havok 4.  That was so fun!  And we're on late at night, too!

1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

I'm not sure that people not using the pools has much to do with the lack of rezz options or animations. 

I think it's because the vast majority of us are introverts and also not new to SL.

This issue isn't unique to Bellisseria. Other than a few adult places, pools like this in communities are always empty unless there is an event going on...

Bellisseria isn't what anyone thought it would be. It's certainly not the starter homes Patch originally planned. Most of us are quite elderly in SL terms, and aren't planning on going anywhere. He's just going to have to come up with something else for the noobs... lol.

This is SPOT ON.   I'm a bit of an extrovert, but my partner is an introvert.  We live 3 houses away from one of the prettiest public pools around.  I have not even tried to drag him there yet, and he is shopping for a backyard pool.  ARGH!   I think it's important to realize, tho, that new folks are just plain QUIETER than we are, here in the forums.  Who knows how many are lurking, reading, living next door?  I don't know about you, but this is the first time in ages that I'm living in a place that noobs are likely to even find, let alone live in.  I haven't had the chance to help anybody new to SL inworld in ages.  It could be fun.

17 minutes ago, Hendrix Portal said:

Or am I being far too optimistic there?

I think so, yes.  When SL was younger, there was a lot more discussion about its internals.  People were more aware of internals when they were more broken :)I hope knowledge dissemination is still being done, elsewhere in the forums.  And I think the Second Life Wiki should be promoted a little more.  But now that the platform is kinda sorta stable, people being less knowledgeable about server load etc. is a GOOD thing. 

We all bloviate at the moles and Lindens. It's human nature.  I don't know whether it's harder for them to deal with knowledgeable bloviating or uninformed bloviating.

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What a beautiful pool though :)  it is a phenomenal place for logging in and hanging out if you happen to still be waiting for a home.  Wanna-be Bellisserians might take more advantage of spaces like these in order to feel more a part of the community perhaps.  People who already have private spaces maybe don't need to use these public spaces as often... but those who are waiting for their chance to own a home, what a fabulous opportunity to hang out in Bellisseria at a pool like that!  Furnished and sunny and beautiful. 

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If you have been in SL more than 2 days you KNOW you can't rez at a place you don't own, so why are we complaining. There are tons of wearables, and some very cheap. Where is the positive outlook?

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