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BethTech

Employees and Agreements

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Hey all, so I'm working on a huge update for one of my projects (a breedable) and I'm at the point where I'm needing help with things like creating some of the textures, as it's a huge effort working on all the code and mesh and such and that would help this get done faster, and allow me to better focus on vital things like making sure it doesn't cause noticeable lag or other issues on regions, etc.

My questions to those who have such arrangements, how do you handle them? Do you have signed agreements between you and the employee? For example stating things such as "don't share templates I give you for this work" and "all created textures must be given to me as the image and not uploaded into SL", etc? Is there anything about this I haven't thought of that's worth mentioning?

I currently have one person helping me and we talk through Discord as well as in-world, so just sending me the images is no issue.

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If it's a commercial project particularly breakables, you may want to consider taking it to a RL agreement if you expect there to be revenue/profit involved. Also that you are properly formed as a LLC in RL (or the equivalent in your home country).

Some areas you may want to consider:

1 - Review if you need a Legal RL agreement covering who owns the IP rights of any work they submit to you. The agreement could also cover renumeration and that they are a sub contractor and not an employee etc.  Also if a dispute occurs how it will be handled.

2 - Non Compete and disclosure clause may be worthwhile if you expose information to them e.g. if you provide them the mesh so they can texture, they cannot create a derivative from that mesh to sell etc.

There are people who have worked on Breakables who had some experiences including legal action - so am sure there are more pitfalls to avoid - really depends if you are making hobby item or this is commercial and what your concerns are.  You may want to google Ozimals etc.

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Thanks for your detailed answers. Right now it's a hobby I started years back to see if I could do it (it's evolved a lot since those first awful moving sculpty parts), but I'll be pretty happy if it pays for my mainland, premium fees, and lets me go shopping every now and then.

I do remember reading about Ozimals when it was going on and I really don't want to get in a mess anywhere near like that. 😦

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People you bring in to help you with a specific product line development are not your employees (it would've been an RL administrative nightmare for you if they were) - they are contractors. An SL written contract is pretty meaningless as The Lab would not enforce it and tells you so in the ToS. An RL contract, either written or oral, is enforceable via legal venues but such enforcement may cost you more then it is worth. In any case forms for such contracts are available on-line, just do a google search. If there are significant payments involved you might consider paying not in L$ but in USD via Paypal. Then if the work is not performed to your satisfaction you might have a recourse with Paypal.

 

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This is all you need to know. 

We are are a Real Trademark but both in this life and the Second one. Why is why I had to set up a Second Life court system. 

Some people will trademark out of our Linden Government office but of course you those trademark have no Real Right in the Real World or second one. Only a few Trademark like Face book or Red bull and others are an official trademark but in this life and that one.  

 

 

69813212_121012839271274_1107051253885566976_n.jpg

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Waiting on our legal team to finalize our Trademark for both this life and the Second one and than we can move forward. Take your employment serious with us. Your work could be submitted for our Corporate trademark protection department. 

 

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On 9/30/2019 at 3:47 AM, cafekan said:

Some people will trademark out of our Linden Government office

https://secondlife.com/corporate/brand/trademark/unauthorized.php

8. No Suggestion of Endorsement. Never use any Linden Lab trademark in a manner that implies a false relationship with or sponsorship, endorsement, or employment by Linden Lab.

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On 9/29/2019 at 10:47 PM, cafekan said:

Why is why I had to set up a Second Life court system. 

You're funny. I assume you're roleplaying.

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this is a small sample of our goal. Our meaning, Avatar Cafekan and her real world boss. After everything is complete and finalize. We hope to launch the new fashion show or ours right in here in the Second Life as promised, posted, and shared. And if course, will be hiring for small project. Please be respectful This is a Real World Trademark. Which will be marketed in the Second Life with Corporate office and more. All We need is for this one Fashion Trademark to go smoothly.   Be proud of our community. And be respectful of our identity. We are working for closely with the Second Life to enhance to the experience.  

Snapshot_026.png

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I'm not trying to be rude here, I think there is a serious language barrier, but I am not sure that any of what you said is what you were trying to say. (and I am being respectful when I say this). Maybe you need to post under your native language as the translations may be getting lost somewhere. People may be able to understand you better if you post using the language you're most familiar with (there are subforums for various languages here...  https://community.secondlife.com/forums/forum/119-international-forum/

I'm not sure you understand what a trademark really is -again that might be because of a serious language barrier. I am not disrespecting you, I promise, English is a really difficult language, I commend your efforts tremendously! Even if it may not always translate well, you do much better than I think most would with a language not their native tongue. 

You cannot trademark a fashion show. You can trademark words and symbols, you can even trademark the name of an event, but you cannot trademark an actual event, its layout, format, or its activities. Just as you can trademark a business name, but not the business as an entity.

It's hard to tell what exactly you're trying to sell as a business. I have looked up your business before, but a lot of it is primarily just advertising other people's stuff, or services. That's not a bad business model, lots of other businesses do the same, but you also can't trademark it. Because it's other people's stuff, that is copyrighted, and also because..it's stuff, not words, symbols, devices or names but actual goods, or products, and products cannot be trademarked.  You also cannot trademark services. 

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On 10/30/2019 at 1:32 AM, bigmoe Whitfield said:

From what I've seen around the web with them,  it does not seem that way.

It's either intentional roleplaying, or unintentional roleplaying...

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Wear it like you own it. 

 "Waiting on our legal team to finalize our Trademark for both this life and the Second one and than we can move forward. Take your employment serious with us. Your work could be "submitted for our Corporate trademark protection department."

All the post about the new fashion show come down to those two images. 

Including. project "Slipnfalls viewers" 

Visit "avatar cafekan" on her face book page 

slipandfallshat.jpg

slipnfallsmarketplace.png

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On 7/21/2019 at 12:00 AM, BethTech said:

Hey all, so I'm working on a huge update for one of my projects (a breedable) and I'm at the point where I'm needing help with things like creating some of the textures, as it's a huge effort working on all the code and mesh and such and that would help this get done faster, and allow me to better focus on vital things like making sure it doesn't cause noticeable lag or other issues on regions, etc.

My questions to those who have such arrangements, how do you handle them? Do you have signed agreements between you and the employee? For example stating things such as "don't share templates I give you for this work" and "all created textures must be given to me as the image and not uploaded into SL", etc? Is there anything about this I haven't thought of that's worth mentioning?

I currently have one person helping me and we talk through Discord as well as in-world, so just sending me the images is no issue.

If it worth actual money I would get RL legal professional involved. If your product isn't expecting $250-500 (hourly cost of lawyers) or money big enough to warrant an agreement, I would say don't bother. You and your assistant will need to be ready to put RL on the table as well.

Just draw up general conditions, send it to a lawyer for them to review it they will either 1. Offer to redo a legally binding one for a fee 2. Provide advice on whether it is really necessary (usually free).

$250 is a small coat compared to someone high-tailing into the sunset with your IP. If anyone tell you they are 'SL lawyer' tell them to go home, get an actual legal professional and not Dave RPing a lawyer. 

 

Edited by iamyourneighbour

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1 hour ago, iamyourneighbour said:

 If anyone tell you they are 'SL lawyer' tell them to go home.

There was at one time a Second Life Bar Association of real lawyers. They had a Legal Village in world, "Justitia", owned by their own LLC, with law offices and an outdoor courtroom. They had a service through which you could check the RL credentials of an SL lawyer. This dates from the days when major companies had a presence in Second Life. At one time people thought that Second Life/OpenSimulator law was going to become as big a deal as World Wide Web law.

Their last activity was on May 12, 2018, when they dissolved their LLC and abandoned Justitia.

I went there once, before it was abandoned. It was cute, but no one was there.

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Okay, I'm going to be the Big Bad Wolf who bursts this little roleplay bubble by saying it: SlipNFalls is a terrible name for a company that is aiming to promote other people's business interests.

If you've ever worked in any real life business then one of the Health & Safety things that is drummed into you over and over is that "slips, trips, and falls are some of the prime causes of workplace injuries". (Or a variant thereof.)

You really want to be associated with something accidental? With something that causes injuries? With two words that are somewhat synonymous with failing or goofing?

ETA: Just a tiny selection of images that come up in a Google search:

slipnfall.jpg.2b42a05a3f222a3b1502391ff210ae14.jpg

Edited by Skell Dagger
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I have a question...and it's a really stupid one, but..I'm asking anyway.

Is that il squiggly line thingy under the name, the spellcheck/autocorrect squiggly thingy? (I honestly cant see it at most font sizes, and I can't tell if that's actually a squiggly line or a decorative under-border, or..not even there at all and my eye is doing one of those "screw you self" things to me again).

If it IS that line, and intended to be decorative..I'd swap it out for something thicker, more bold, and doesn't remind everyone of mistakes, or something to that effect (that part's not meant to be mean, I've seen others use similar borders for things in logos and it always looks really weird to me, so I never know if it's just me or if they're really that off. I have an odd fascination with logos and graphic design in general, though, lol).

I'm still having a very hard time figuring out what's meant to be "sold" here. The fashion show thing is already a bomb that's misfired, and hit some folks trying to help, from other related threads. So I don't think it's really that, or that it'll ever come to fruition.  There is no actual business here, like...no services, no products, no anything but miscommunication (which I really do believe stems from a language barrier at this point. I'm trying very hard to help with that, but getting nowhere, maybe someone else can step in to try and help on that front).

I hate to see folks come into sl with all the intentions of having a great business model-no matter how ill-informed they are-and then seeing them leave because things didn't work out so well. 

As for the slipnfalls thing, I too thought of slip n slide., except our....more unconventional but way more fun version. We use tarps, plastic sheeting...and lots of earth friendly suds (don't wanna damage the grass or ground beneath of course) :D Great fun for all ages, that often becomes even more fun, for participants and spectators, when the "hold my beer" moments begin. Sigh...summer, we'll see you in about seven-ish months lmao. 

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This is certainly a strange and confusing thread  -- as others have noted.   

Wanted to mention that there is a BIG difference  between "TM" and  ®.  To get a REGISTERED TRADEMARK you have forms and fees and your application pretty much doesn't get accepted unless an attorney presents it -- and you forfeit your hefty fee.   That is, at least how things were  a couple of decades ago and I can't imagine it has improved for the "little guy".    I did some quick searching and that seems to still be the way things are done. 

 

Pasting in some info from the web -- just in case this project actually happens and others are thinking about joining in.    The "TM" is free to use and means little other than "this is what I hope to register someday because I think it is a cool name for my company" :D.  So I could put TM after ChiC buildings if I wanted to  == but WHY would I want to?   Personally I think the days of registered trademarks for SL has come and gone.   

 

image.png.a7c68d04afe890eb59cdf231ba26f130.png

Edited by Chic Aeon
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