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Christi Maeterlinck

Latest FS Viewer 6.2.4: memory problems on a Mac?

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Posted (edited)

To run my sim and its tier accounts I need to have an Excel spreadsheet and two Chrome tabs open (My SL account, and the rental system for the houses on my sim) as well as FS. Never a problem in 10 years, not even with Mac OS Mojave 10.14.5, But now, since I upgrading FS to 6.2.4, I get 'out of memory' warnings on my machine...

http://prntscr.com/ogznfs

One more Chrome tab open, and I crash: a nasty one. Everything freezes and I need a complete computer restart.

Is anyone else experiencing out of memory problems since FS 6.2.4 on their Mac?

I can sort of control it by dropping my Draw distance to 125metres and my Graphics Performance slider down to almost minimum but life's not worth living with those settings:

https://prnt.sc/oh0hku

Any thoughts.anyone?

Edited by Christi Maeterlinck
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I'd assume you only have 4GB RAM, seeing that the Viewer has never before thrown "out-of-memory" warnings is quite lucky and i'd deem that almost impossible, you must have been living under a rock or at least a place where there is never anyone around because those 2gb memory usage you're showing is hit quite easily.

Sorry to say it but if 2GB memory usage is a problem for your system you should consider upgrading because this is only going to get worse and its really surprising you haven't had these earlier.

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Posted (edited)

4GB RAM? What an odd assumption to make. I've never had 'out of memory' warnings before. Luck doesn't come in to it and no, I don't live under a rock.

My 2017 MacBook Pro has two 8GB, each running at 2133MHz.

If there's anyone out there who has any positive suggestions rather than making unwarranted assumptions, I'd be very grateful.

http://prntscr.com/ohaeyt

Edited by Christi Maeterlinck

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Hi Christi,

Have you run "Activity Monitor" to see just where all your memory is going? There may be some task not identified in the out of memory dialog that's causing the problem. You'll find that app in your "Utilities" folder.

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Madelaine: that was a great suggestion.

I ran Activity Monitor and it identified quite a number of apps and system bits that weren't running BUT creating memory load. The worst culprit is 'Books', which is I believe an Apple app and which was taking up 0.5MB of memory even when NOT RUNNING!

Apple Support helped me to tidy things up by doing a RESET NVRAM and cleaning up all USER PERMISSIONS.

They also pointed out that I should shut the computer down every couple of days or so rather than just putting the Mac to sleep, so as not to accumulate unnecessary stuff that eats up RAM.

Fingers crossed; we'll see.

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When you run Activity monitor, go under the "View" menu and select all processes to see everything. Also check free space on your drive. You should be getting other messages if it's almost full, but it may be worth a look since it doesn't sound like there's really enough running to be choking a 16GB Mac. 

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Lyssa: thank you, good ideas.

BTW everyone. In my last posting in this thread I mentioned that the 'Books' app was taking up 0.5MB of memory even wen not running.

That was a typo: it was actually 0.5GB, which is grotesque! http://prntscr.com/ohb1mj

Resetting the VRAM has zapped it completely.

Mind you, I had none of these problems before installing the latest version of FS, so the jury's still out on that one. Time will tell.

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21 hours ago, Christi Maeterlinck said:

4GB RAM? What an odd assumption to make. I've never had 'out of memory' warnings before. Luck doesn't come in to it and no, I don't live under a rock.

My 2017 MacBook Pro has two 8GB, each running at 2133MHz.

If there's anyone out there who has any positive suggestions rather than making unwarranted assumptions, I'd be very grateful.

http://prntscr.com/ohaeyt

Excuse me what the *****?

I was trying to help and diagnose the problem and regardless of whether you have 4GB or 8GB, my statement holds true. If you have to scrape off as much memory as you possibly can and everything goes boom because one or two apps are using a GB in total of your memory you should consider upgrading, 8GB is little RAM and unless your OS is quite clean and you run absolutely no apps whatsoever you'll have a hard time keeping the Viewer alive, especially now with 64bit. SL is capable of using all your memory now and it will do so if you encounter a good chunk of content. This is a generic issue not just on Mac and neither is it exclusive to Firestorm. If you get your Viewer to 2GB memory usage you will probably not have any issues getting it higher if theres a bit more stuff around and you don't counteract with decreasing the render distance or max avatar count (and even those will only delay the inevitable).

I'm not saying anything negative per se, i'm just telling you the hard truth. 8GB is simply not enough anymore, it is more than 4GB (which is absolutely crititical and i wonder how people can even run the Viewer) but as your forum posts show is simply not enough, you clearly have problems keeping your Viewer alive and you semi-actively have to make sure nothing else takes away any memory, that's a big giveaway for too little memory and in the long run this problem will only get worse, creators don't sleep, SL doesn't sleep, both will further develop over time and both will consume more of your already very limited memory and you'll find yourself in this situation again without anything you can do.

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Niram, I do appreciate the intention to help and understand the points you are making: thank you.

However, there is no need for the 'what the '***" rudeness.

And once more, you're not actually attending to what I'm saying. I do NOT have 8GB of RAM. If you read my last message properly you'll see that I said 'My 2017 MacBook Pro has two 8GB, each running at 2133MHz.' 2 x 8 = 16.

If you read my last posting in this thread you'll see what was causing the problem: an app that was taking up a grotesque 0.5GB of memory event when it wasn't running. Agreed, though, one can never have enough RAM!

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, NiranV Dean said:
On 7/19/2019 at 7:33 AM, Christi Maeterlinck said:

My 2017 MacBook Pro has two 8GB, each running at 2133MHz.

I was trying to help and diagnose the problem and regardless of whether you have 4GB or 8GB, my statement holds true.

Yet Christi's Mac, as she clearly stated, has 16GB.

Listen to the patient before offering a diagnosis?

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
Tardy post. It was apparently stuck in the queue.

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5 hours ago, Christi Maeterlinck said:

an app that was taking up a grotesque 0.5GB of memory event when it wasn't running. Agreed, though, one can never have enough RAM!

Although "Books" taking half a gig of RAM does seem excessive, I wonder if there is/wasn't something else causing your problems. There's a lot of stuff running in the background on a typical Mac, and any of it has potential to go awry. I've had Safari suck up nearly all of my 64GB when encountering badly constructed web pages. You may never know if Firestorm was misbehaving, or if it was something else. When weirdness like this happens to me, I go running to "Activity Monitor" to look for outliers. If it's something non-trivial to shut-down, I restart my Mac.

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Close running apps.... Activity Monitor check for greedy apps whether running or not... do a restart.

Check. A handy 3-point plan!

And gosh yes, some apps can be deceptive. I had 'Clean My Mac' set to load itself on startup, to sit on my top menu bar, and this was taking up memory even when not running. Ditto Dropbox. Since I rarely use either, I've removed them from the startup list and will simply run them from the hard disc applications folder if ever I need them.

Mind you, Niran's got me fantasising... the new MacPro due out in the autumn has 64GB graphics memory and 1.5 TB in 12 x 128GB DIMMS.... Swoon!

Alas tho I don't have the energy these days to rob a bank...

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Yet Christi's Mac, as she clearly stated, has 16GB.

Listen to the patient before offering a diagnosis?

ah i see, reading it again i just now noticed the "two 8GB"... why don't you just write 16GB...

This however does not change my answer, infact it would only bolster what i said, it's going to get worse.

BUT

It also adds another bit, if you are having issues with 16GB ... are you sure you're running the 64bit version of the Viewer? is there even one for Mac? I don't know how its on Mac but "out of memory" on around 2-3gb sounds like you're running a 32bit version. On windows there is the LAA tag to adress up to 3.5... but even then the Viewer just starts breaking at around 3gb.

 

And if you want to buy a Mac with 64GB RAM you'll need more than one bank. Just sayin.

Edited by NiranV Dean
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Niran, if you look at my original posting you'll see that I am running the latest FS6.2.4 and that I am indeed running it on a Mac; if you read my interaction with Madelaine you'll see the nature of the problem and how it's been resolved.

It seems to me that you're talking with yourself, in an internal conversation in which you invent spurious possibilities which you then busily refute. I'll leave you to get on with it. Bye!

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Posted (edited)

My solution is to try this: https://www.stclairsoft.com/AppTamer/ (unlimited two week demo)

A couple other questions: Other than the three apps you mention as being a requirement, what other apps do you have open (Your screenshot was also showing Preview)? With Chrome, how many tabs do you have open? (Each tab can suck up memory like a pig - on any OS) - Try Vivaldi Browser (It is Chrome without the Google Spyware, but more importantly: It puts background tabs to SLEEP) - https://vivaldi.com

SL is a pig of the most high. When doing what you're trying to do (as a necessary requirement thing) Then it is best to keep only the necessary apps open and necessary browser tabs open and close or shutdown anything else not needed. (Regardless of which OS you are using; it's just  best-practices).

Oh, and the putting computer to sleep is NOT a solution for "I'm done for today" - the idea of putting it to sleep is so you can close it, pick it up, go to your next location, open it up and continue using it. When you are done with it for the day, SHUT DOWN (Otherwise you shorten to life of your computer - go ahead, ask Apple, or Dell, or HP...)

Edited by Alyona Su

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Hi Alyona, and thank you for your v helpful suggestions! AppTamer looks like fun and is reasonably priced, I see. The website description talks about reducing pressure on the CPU, but I assume that this is directly related to the RAM-hogging problem I've been experiencing, yes? Or is it aimed at something that's distinct?

You ask, what other apps? Okay, here's what I had running before the very worst crash: having FS-release x64 v6.2.4 open, (default graphics settings); together with Excel and Chrome with just two tabs– my SL website account transactions page, and  CasperTech; all needed when I do the accounts of the cottage rentals of an island I run. Preview or TextEdit if I'm referring to notes. Now, I had never had a problem before upgrading to FSv6.2.4, and everything else was, as you suggested, closed down. At first I thought the issue was something to do with the upgrade.

It turns out that it was not shutting the machine down that may have been the source of the problem, as you also mentioned. I spent quite some time with Apple Support, who identified the culprit RAM-hog: part of the Mac system called 'Book' which, although not running, was taking up an appalling 500MB of memory! An NVRAM run closed it down and since then, touch wood, all has been well. Apple Support suggested that Book may have been gradually taking up more and more RAM each time I didn't shut down the Mac but just put it to sleep.

The reason that I was just sleeping the Mac was that I'd noticed that I lost my FS login names and passwords each time I closed, rather than just slept, my machine. But I believe that's an FS bug that may have been resolved now, and so I shall take your wise advice and close down properly each night.

Vivaldi looks interesting, but perhaps a bit too complicated for my needs. There again, I do resent the spyware in Chrome, so I might give it a try!

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AppTamer puts background apps to sleep - if they are sleeping, they are not using any more RAM than they already suck-up (I mentioned it because of the Book issue you mentioned). :)

Here is how I would approach your scenarios - First, change-out a couple. apps:

  • Vivaldi instead of Chrome (Better browser, exact same functionality, better features regarding RAM among other things).
  • Use NUMBERS instead of Excel - at least for this process (Pages and Numbers and Keynote are outstanding Office alternatives and much better RAM management). Some people need Office, I get it, but for *this* I would use Numbers (then export to Excel is required) - and you already have it as it comes with ever Mac.
  • Linden Lab Viewer (a.k.a.: LL Official Viewer) - it is much less memory intensive and a much lighter footprint. Unless you must have RLVa enabled during this process? It's also a best practice to keep a copy of LL Viewer around for troubleshooting Firestorm or Kokua (i.e. if it works on LL viewer, then the problem is with Firestorm.)

I'm not sure what your process is or why you need all these apps open simultaneously as it seems there would be other ways to scrape the data you need, but if I were to do what it sounds like you're doing, this is how I would do it. :)

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That's so helpful, Alyona, thak you!

I think I mentioned why I need all the apps open last time: it's to manage revenues and outgoings on my island.

I'll certainly try out NUMBERS. It loads my existing Excel sheets perfectly. (Please just tell me how to move the very top row of Sheet Tabs from above the Sheet window to below the Sheet window as it is in Excel: (can't find the command anywhere in the Help facility!)

Ditto Vivaldi: I'll give it a try, and thanks for your suggestion.

As for the official LL viewer... hmmm, I wasn't happy with it 9 or 10 years ago, so when Firestorm became available I migrated to that and have stuck with it ever since. I imagine that the LL viewer has improved over the years, so perhaps I should give it a proper trial. (Whenever I open it it looks so cludgy and dark, but I suppose if I looked, I'd find alternative skins and layout possibilities.)

One thing though. Firestorm  has an amazing in-world help group, open 24/7. I suppose I could use the generic Linden Concierge help facility if I need assistance with the official viewer, but they tend to stick to office hours only. Does the official viewer have an in-world 24/7 help group? Guess I'd better check!

 

 

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I like to stick with OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) for the most part LOL. So I like Safari, BUT Vivaldi is *amazing* on Mac AND Windows (and prolly Linux, too). Seriously - what until you see all th stuff it does AND it is officially "Chrome" - but they block the constant phone-home calls to Google, so privacy is maintained on top of it all. (And still use Chrome extensions and all the rest).

Numbers - I actually prefer it WAY better than Excel. As for tabs along the top: I don't know a way to move them (I never looked: at the top feel more natural and logical to me and Microsoft have been 'training' people to use bastardized interfaces since the beginning LOL) BUT - why use tabs? In Numbers you can have multiple separate sheets (a.k.a. "tabs") all on ONE sheet. Maybe peruse the documentation when you get the change: https://www.apple.com/numbers/ User Manual: https://help.apple.com/numbers/mac/6.1/

The office I work for has actually migrated entirely away from anything Microsoft (we use Pages, Numbers, and Keynote) and Adobe (We use the Affinity Suite: Publisher, Designer, and Photo) and PDF Expert for Acrobat Pro features. LOL Microsoft and Adobe software is a lot more irrelevant now than ever before, why spend that money if you don't have to? (Speaking from my own world-view, of course) :)

I would actually use the LL Viewer full time, I like it a lot and the dark theme allows more focus on the in-world content. BUT, I use CTS Wardrobe (web based) so I need RLVa, which the LL viewer doesn't't have. My personal favorite is Catznip viewer (performance blows Firestorm out of the water) - but not available for macOS (yet... grrrr) - So I use Firestorm and sometimes Kokua on macOS. Either way - it's always good to have the "official" viewer installed for exactly the reason I say: trouble-shooting the others, and sometimes when you need something lightweight and snappy.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/19/2019 at 12:15 AM, Christi Maeterlinck said:

To run my sim and its tier accounts I need to have an Excel spreadsheet and two Chrome tabs open (My SL account, and the rental system for the houses on my sim) as well as FS. Never a problem in 10 years, not even with Mac OS Mojave 10.14.5, But now, since I upgrading FS to 6.2.4, I get 'out of memory' warnings on my machine...

http://prntscr.com/ogznfs

One more Chrome tab open, and I crash: a nasty one. Everything freezes and I need a complete computer restart.

Is anyone else experiencing out of memory problems since FS 6.2.4 on their Mac?

I can sort of control it by dropping my Draw distance to 125metres and my Graphics Performance slider down to almost minimum but life's not worth living with those settings:

https://prnt.sc/oh0hku

Any thoughts.anyone?

I suggest you open the Console app, find the System Reports on the left sidebar and look for memory_resource.diag reports for Firestorm in addition to .hang reports.

Also in the User Reports section you should find Firestorm .crash reports.

Although these reports probably is beyond your skills to analyze, you could share them with FS developers to identify the cause of the crash. 

Edit: If there is a GPU crash there should be a separate crash report file for that too in there. 

Edited by Gavin Hird
Addition

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37 minutes ago, Gavin Hird said:

@NiranV Dean why don't you stick to commenting on your own viewer. NOBODY is interested in your anti Mac spew!

Anti Mac spew? wth? I didn't say a single *****ing thing against mac.

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