NEW FIRESTORM UPDATE REMOVES IMPORTANT REGION OWNER/MANAGER RIGHTS

[CrowleyCorp]

I am VERY UPSET that Linden Lab has taken away sim owners/managers ability to disable scripts in objects through the Region / Get Top Scripts window.  Their reason is because no mod objects cannot have their scripts turned back on once deactivated in this way.  The solution to this problem is NOT TO REMOVE THE RIGHTS OF REGION OWNERS/MANAGERS but to ENABLE THE ABILITY TO 'RUN SCRIPTS' IN NO MOD OBJECTS!  Exceptions were made to the no modify permission to allow objects to be taken out of the inventory of objects (unboxing) and if the item taken out is no copy it is removed from the object inventory permanently with no way to put it back inside breaking the object, so why not make an exception for the 'run scripts' command?????  I use the disable scripts ability frequently in my region to deactivate all scripts (after picking up no mod objects) and then turning them back on as needed.  I call this nuking my region which needs to be done every so often since the region performance ends up in the toilet after time.  Why is it that I can restart my region and the spare time goes from 7.0 or 8.0 to .001?  Or from .001 to 4.0 or 5.0?  This with no changes to objects in the region for weeks and only myself present.  Is there some type of undisclosed 'load leveling' system that takes spare time from some regions and gives to others?  Would this explain the random 5 point drop/raise in spare time after sim restarts?  Who knows.  All I know for sure is that there is something screwy going on with the spare time in my region and probably others as well and this 'UPDATE' that REMOVES SOME RIGHTS OF SIM OWNERS/MANAGERS destroys my ability to diagnose and cure my region performance.

[Love Zhaoying]

If you saw this in the Firestorm viewer, did you check the official Linden Lab viewer?

[ThorinII]

13 minutes ago, CrowleyCorp said:

I am VERY UPSET that Linden Lab has taken away sim owners/managers ability to disable scripts in objects through the Region / Get Top Scripts window.

So when Linden Lab took away those abilities, what does that have to do with the new Firestorm update? Linden Lab doesn't even develop the Firestorm viewer.

Edited July 17, 2019 by ThorinII

[Miranda Umino]

45 minutes ago, CrowleyCorp said:

I am VERY UPSET that Linden Lab has taken away sim owners/managers ability to disable scripts in objects through the Region / Get Top Scripts window.  Their reason is because no mod objects cannot have their scripts turned back on once deactivated in this way.  The solution to this problem is NOT TO REMOVE THE RIGHTS OF REGION OWNERS/MANAGERS but to ENABLE THE ABILITY TO 'RUN SCRIPTS' IN NO MOD OBJECTS!  

What about no-mod scripts who are in the attachements of avatars ?

If the region owner disable scripts while some visitors visit the region , and these vistors leave , i don t see any way how enable  scripts could work after the visitors have left .

i.e :  i visit your region . I have some huds . You are owner of  a region . You have not flashed your lands as" no-scripts"  in "about land / options" .  5  minutes later , you choose to  disable scripts by the "Region.Get Top Scripts window" . .  10 minutes later , i leave the region  . 15 minutes later , you enable scripts in "Region.Get Top Scripts window" . How the region could know where are my scripts ?

The difference between "Region.Get Top Scripts window" "bout and "about land / options"  is that "about land / options"  doesn t change the flag "running" in the inventory of objects

So , in my point of view , it makes sense to take away this feature who can break objects

Edited July 17, 2019 by Miranda Umino

[CrowleyCorp]

27 minutes ago, Miranda Umino said:

What about no-mod scripts who are in the attachements of avatars ?

If the region owner disable scripts while some visitors visit the region , and these vistors leave , i don t see any way how enable  scripts could work after the visitors have left . 

The "Run Scripts" option is not a region setting, it is a setting that every person can do in the pie menu to their own objects therefor your reason for supporting the removal of these region owner/manager rights is flawed.

[CrowleyCorp]

46 minutes ago, ThorinII said:

So when Linden Lab took away those abilities, what does that have to do with the new Firestorm update? Linden Lab doesn't even develop the Firestorm viewer. 

That's an easy one to answer.  I use firestorm like every other person in the grid.  Wouldn't want people thinking this only affects the official Linden Lab viewer since only noobs use that.

[Garnet Psaltery]

1 hour ago, CrowleyCorp said:

 All I know for sure is that there is something screwy going on with the spare time in my region 

What has Concierge said about it?  I presume you've asked.

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, CrowleyCorp said:

I am VERY UPSET that Linden Lab has taken away sim owners/managers ability to disable scripts in objects through the Region / Get Top Scripts window.  Their reason is because no mod objects cannot have their scripts turned back on once deactivated in this way.  The solution to this problem is NOT TO REMOVE THE RIGHTS OF REGION OWNERS/MANAGERS but to ENABLE THE ABILITY TO 'RUN SCRIPTS' IN NO MOD OBJECTS!  Exceptions were made to the no modify permission to allow objects to be taken out of the inventory of objects (unboxing) and if the item taken out is no copy it is removed from the object inventory permanently with no way to put it back inside breaking the object, so why not make an exception for the 'run scripts' command?????  I use the disable scripts ability frequently in my region to deactivate all scripts (after picking up no mod objects) and then turning them back on as needed.  I call this nuking my region which needs to be done every so often since the region performance ends up in the toilet after time.  Why is it that I can restart my region and the spare time goes from 7.0 or 8.0 to .001?  Or from .001 to 4.0 or 5.0?  This with no changes to objects in the region for weeks and only myself present.  Is there some type of undisclosed 'load leveling' system that takes spare time from some regions and gives to others?  Would this explain the random 5 point drop/raise in spare time after sim restarts?  Who knows.  All I know for sure is that there is something screwy going on with the spare time in my region and probably others as well and this 'UPDATE' that REMOVES SOME RIGHTS OF SIM OWNERS/MANAGERS destroys my ability to diagnose and cure my region performance.

Where is your evidence that LL has done such a thing? Where are all the irate landowners' threads screaming at FS for something LL is supposed to have done?

 

[CrowleyCorp]

9 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Where is your evidence that LL has done such a thing? Where are all the irate landowners' threads screaming at FS for something LL is supposed to have done?

 

https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/firestorm_change_log_6.2.4.57588

Removed “Disable Selected” and “Disable All” Buttons from Top Scripts
World → Region Details (Region/Estate) → Debug → Top scripts
Maxim ProductEngine - removed cos of https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4143?

[Selene Gregoire]

2 minutes ago, CrowleyCorp said:

https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/firestorm_change_log_6.2.4.57588

Removed “Disable Selected” and “Disable All” Buttons from Top Scripts
World → Region Details (Region/Estate) → Debug → Top scripts
Maxim ProductEngine - removed cos of https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4143?

So you are screaming at Firestorm for complying with LL's fixes? That's a waste of time and energy.  FS has to do what LL says to remain in compliance and available for use. You'd be better off filing an LL support ticket than screaming about it on the forum.

[CrowleyCorp]

So it's no secret that scripts are created and put into objects in order to function.  A scripts entire reason for being is to run.  There would be no point in creating a script to carry out a task, place it into an object, and leave it disabled.  Therefore I see no problem or security concern with simply allowing the pie menu Scripts / Run Scripts ability to function for no mod objects.  The "Run Scripts" ability does not reset scripts, it only checks the run box of scripts that have been disabled.  This would solve the problem of no mod objects breaking when disabled by a region owner/moderator and it wouldn't require the removal of a very handy ability in the toolbox of region owners/managers.

[Chaser Zaks]

Hey! Firestorm QA/Dev(but mostly QA) here!

These buttons were removed because they had the ability to permanently break a resident's objects if it is no-mod. This was Linden Lab's decision, not ours. This change was merged in from the official Second Life viewer branch. See https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4143 for more information on this.

It was merged into the official viewer code at viewer-release/fe65bf3dd02e and was merged into Firestorm at phoenix-firestorm-lgpl/fe65bf3dd02e.

These buttons may be added back in the future when LL fixes the issue. We'd fix it ourselves but we don't have access to the simulator code.

A alternative solution that should work for right now is to just return the offending resident's objects, or if it is your object, to disable the scripts manually.

Firestorm has the ability to bulk disable scripts in objects. To do this, open the build floater and select the object, then from the menu bar(at the top of the screen), go to "Build > Scripts > Set Scripts to Not Running".

Sorry for any inconvenience that this may cause!

Edited July 17, 2019 by Chaser Zaks

[CrowleyCorp]

Thank you Chaser Zaks.  I hope you will pass along the real fix to LL which would be to enable the pie menu Scripts / Run Scripts function for no mod objects.

[Miranda Umino]

1 hour ago, CrowleyCorp said:

The "Run Scripts" option is not a region setting, it is a setting that every person can do in the pie menu to their own objects therefor your reason for supporting the removal of these region owner/manager rights is flawed.

The region owner doesn t own the objects in the region , and he doesn own the objects in the vistors attachments  . . So what is your argue ?

For the objects owned by the region owner , he could do by the"pie menu"  ( who is not a pie menu since years  , by the way ) 

And for the objects not owned by the region owner he can return them 

And for the objects ownerd by vistors , he can kick visitors .

And if he wants pause the scripts , he can use the "about land / option" feature in each parcel  . Or he can use too the "region/debug /disable scripts" feature who changes the proprties of the region or land , but not the properties of objects

 

So , what is the interest for region owner to break items ? Tell me .. Explain this

Edited July 17, 2019 by Miranda Umino

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Chaser Zaks said:

Firestorm has the ability to bulk disable scripts in objects. To do this, open the build floater and select the object, then from the menu bar(at the top of the screen), go to "Build > Scripts > Set Scripts to Not Running".

Doesn’t that mess up some kinds of HUDS (such as used for mesh avatars), because the user won’t know which scripts to “re-enable”? It would be great if instead of “set to not running”, there was a way to treat an object (and its scripts) as if it’s in a “no script zone”.

[ThorinII]

1 hour ago, CrowleyCorp said:

That's an easy one to answer.  I use firestorm like every other person in the grid.  Wouldn't want people thinking this only affects the official Linden Lab viewer since only noobs use that.

It might be that Firestorm is the most-used viewer on the grid (I have no stats though to even guess that), but to call people who use the official SL Viewer "noobs" only shows your arrogance. Hell even I occasionally use the official SL Viewer, to look see if something that seems broken is specifically related to <insert viewer of choice here>, or system related.

[Selene Gregoire]

37 minutes ago, Chaser Zaks said:

Hey! Firestorm QA/Dev(but mostly QA) here!

These buttons were removed because they had the ability to permanently break a resident's objects if it is no-mod. This was Linden Lab's decision, not ours. This change was merged in from the official Second Life viewer branch. See https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4143 for more information on this.

It was merged into the official viewer code at viewer-release/fe65bf3dd02e and was merged into Firestorm at phoenix-firestorm-lgpl/fe65bf3dd02e.

These buttons may be added back in the future when LL fixes the issue. We'd fix it ourselves but we don't have access to the simulator code.

A alternative solution that should work for right now is to just return the offending resident's objects, or if it is your object, to disable the scripts manually.

Firestorm has the ability to bulk disable scripts in objects. To do this, open the build floater and select the object, then from the menu bar(at the top of the screen), go to "Build > Scripts > Set Scripts to Not Running".

Sorry for any inconvenience that this may cause!

Oh good. I don't need to page @Whirly Fizzle... or do I to back you up? I've been off the team too long.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Selene Gregoire]

19 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Doesn’t that mess up some kinds of HUDS (such as used for mesh avatars), because the user won’t know which scripts to “re-enable”? It would be great if instead of “set to not running”, there was a way to treat an object (and its scripts) as if it’s in a “no script zone”.

To my knowledge it only affects rezzed items, not HUDs or other worn scripted items. Otherwise your AO would stop working and they don't.

[CrowleyCorp]

For those confused it's quite simple.  The issue is not that scripts can be shut down.  The issue is that there is no function to re-enable scripts in a no mod object.  If LL would simply enable the function of "Run Scripts" for no mod objects, problem solved.  I guess it is easier to destroy a function then to create a solution.

[Willow Wilder]

51 minutes ago, CrowleyCorp said:

Thank you Chaser Zaks.  I hope you will pass along the real fix to LL which would be to enable the pie menu Scripts / Run Scripts function for no mod objects.

I'm not sure what "real fix" you are referring to, but the Second Life Viewer has the same basic scripts submenu options in the build menu that Firestorm Viewer has. Given that you are the one who is VERY UPSET with Linden Lab, I would suggest you submit any feature improvement requests on LL's bug tracker here https://jira.secondlife.com/

 

[CrowleyCorp]

3 minutes ago, Willow Wilder said:

I'm not sure what "real fix" you are referring to, but the Second Life Viewer has the same basic scripts submenu options in the build menu that Firestorm Viewer has. Given that you are the one who is VERY UPSET with Linden Lab, I would suggest you submit any feature improvement requests on LL's bug tracker here https://jira.secondlife.com/

 

For those confused it's quite simple.  The issue is not that scripts can be shut down.  The issue is that there is no function to re-enable scripts in a no mod object.  If LL would simply enable the function of "Run Scripts" for no mod objects, problem solved.  I guess it is easier to destroy a function then to create a solution.

Side note: We all understand that this applies to both the SL viewer and the FS viewer. I don't know why people keep nit picking minutia.  To reiterate a previous post I put Firestorm in the title because most people use Firestorm. 

[Miranda Umino]

14 minutes ago, CrowleyCorp said:

For those confused it's quite simple.  The issue is not that scripts can be shut down.  The issue is that there is no function to re-enable scripts in a no mod object.  If LL would simply enable the function of "Run Scripts" for no mod objects, problem solved.  I guess it is easier to destroy a function then to create a solution.

Side note: We all understand that this applies to both the SL viewer and the FS viewer. I don't know why people keep nit picking minutia.  To reiterate a previous post I put Firestorm in the title because most people use Firestorm. 

You are really confused .. because you want a feature who doesn t fix a solution .

There was a bug : the real fix was to disable the  old feature 

If you want disable scripts , you can us "region/debug/disable scripts" . who is a chechbox you can enable and disable  .

But it s a region setting ,  : it doesnt modify the objects non-modify

So , the feature in the other window "region/top scripts"  has no interest , except to break illegaly some items who are not owned by the region owner 

Edited July 17, 2019 by Miranda Umino

[CrowleyCorp]

Temporarily suspending the script engine of a region is not even close to the same as the ability to uncheck the running box for the scripts of objects using the top scripts object finder.  You are telling me if I am out of apples just eat a typewriter.  Clearly only a few people responding in this thread actually understand the issue.  Fairly sure Chaser was the only one.

[Miranda Umino]

9 minutes ago, CrowleyCorp said:

Temporarily suspending the script engine of a region is not even close to the same as the ability to uncheck the running box for the scripts of objects using the top scripts object finder.  You are telling me if I am out of apples just eat a typewriter.  Clearly only a few people responding in this thread actually understand the issue.  Fairly sure Chaser was the only one.

And so  ? what is the interest to permanently desactivate object  you don t own ?

It  s the meaning to "break an object"

 

If your goal was to descativate temporary scripts , you can laways with the "region/debug/disable(enable) scripts " .

So , if you wanted the fetaure un "region/top scripts" window is only temporary descativation , why to keep a doublon with "region/debug/checbox dsable enable scripts" ?

Edited July 17, 2019 by Miranda Umino

[CrowleyCorp]

1 minute ago, Miranda Umino said:

And so  ? what is the interest to permanently desactivate object  you don t own ?

I own everything in my region, and it would not be permanent if (and I have posted this about a zillion times now) if they would enable 'run scripts' function on no mod objects.

P.S. If you actually had read my original post you would see exactly what I use the function for.