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Zia Branner

Avatar keeps flying and SL gets stuck

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For months now I cannot fly anymore without getting stuck. Or the av keeps flying up up up, or I cannot use the camera controls, menu's etcetera any longer.

I have to relog then. As long as I don't fly, all is fine. Settings at home (router/modem/connection) are all fine. What to do?

Thank you.

Zia Branner

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96449e3e5305b3f01613ca5f6e71f191.png

The GTX 1050 is not a particularly powerful graphics card, but it ought to be able to handle SL without problems.  A lot of people use it.  You have already reduced some stress by keeping your draw distance at 128m.  You should also drop your LOD factor, which is waaaaay too high at 9.075.  My own is set at 1.0, which is at (or very close to) the default setting for the standard SL viewer.  Unless you are viewing a lot of poorly-made mesh objects, you should do fine by setting it at 2.0, and that will mean that your graphics card has less work to do.

Your packet loss, at 0.6%, is higher than I would feel comfortable with on my own machine but it's not alarming.  Reboot your router and modem, and definitely avoid using a wifi connection.  Those simple steps often take care of local packet loss issues.

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7 hours ago, Zia Branner said:

Hi Alwin,

 

Thank you for your answer. Here are my settings:

 

Second Life Release 6.3.0.529185 (64bit)
Release Notes

You are at 101.2, 142.4, 2,800.7 in SH 7 located at sim10682.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.53.44:13011)
SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/SH 7/101/142/2801
(global coordinates 293,989.0, 270,222.0, 2,800.7)
Second Life Server 19.06.14.528215
Release Notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7300HQ CPU @ 2.50GHz (2496 MHz)
Memory: 8072 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 17134.885)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 1050/PCIe/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 25.21.14.2202
OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 422.02

Window size: 1920x1001
Font Size Adjustment: 96pt
UI Scaling: 1
Draw distance: 128m
Bandwidth: 3000kbit/s
LOD factor: 9.075
Render quality: 4
Advanced Lighting Model: Enabled
Texture memory: 512MB
VFS (cache) creation time: July 19 2019 22:19:34

J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.10.4
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Ex 4.44.64
Dullahan: 1.1.1320 / CEF: 3.3626.1895.g7001d56 / Chromium: 72.0.3626.121
LibVLC Version: 2.2.8
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
Packets Lost: 1,665/285,164 (0.6%)
July 21 2019 06:40:32

The red lines may be adding to your problem.

You are running the BoM RC Viewer. Unless you are working with BoM stuff, I suggest you switch to the default SL Viewer, 6.2.3. Maybe even try the Firestorm Viewer.

Bandwidth is recommended to be 80% of your download speed or 1500 whichever is smaller. That is from years of testing. But, it is very dependent on your hardware and location. So, experiment to see what setting gives the best results... even over 1500. But, make your first tries at or below 1500.

LoD 9 is forcing your system to download more than it needs. Take the setting to 2 and see if you have better results. Novice creators that have no idea how to  use LoD tell you to turn the number up to save them effort. People even complain about Firestorm using LoD @ 2 as they think it leads content creators to be sloppy causing everyone lag.

The packet loss is not good. But, at 0.6% it isn't deadly. Also, 1.6k out of 255k looks like you just started the viewer. It is common to have more packet loss when first logging in. I would expect the % to drop lower the longer you are on. If it increases after login, then it is bad and you likely have connection problem.

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That's often a sign that your viewer and the SL servers are not in sync very well.  If you open your Statistics bar (CTRL + Shift + 1) and look at the top few lines, you may see either that your Ping Sim time is uncomfortably high ( > 150 msec) or that you are losing quite a bit of data (that is, your Packet Loss is over a small fraction of 1%).  Those conditions will contribute to some lag but are most troublesome when you are teleporting, traveling across region borders, or flying.  At those times, it's easy for the servers to lose track of where you are.  If they don;t know, then they can't tell your viewer how to update properly, so you're lost.  If you are way out of sync, you'll get disconnected.

There's not a lot that you can do about Ping Sim.  It's mostly a function of how far you are from LL's servers, so a long transit time is common for people in Europe and can be truly bad for those in Australia and distant parts of Asia.  And for people using a satellite connection.  Sometimes you can talk with your ISP and get their help in routing your data past a troublesome, slow Internet node, but that's usually hopeless.  You can do things about your packet loss, though.  The usual suspect is your own router or modem.   Reboot them to clear them and start fresh. Check cables and connectors too, and ask your ISP to check their connections.  Several years ago, I had very bad packet loss that was traced to corrosion in a connection at the street in front of my home.

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On 7/16/2019 at 11:46 PM, Rolig Loon said:

That's often a sign that your viewer and the SL servers are not in sync very well.  If you open your Statistics bar (CTRL + Shift + 1) and look at the top few lines, you may see either that your Ping Sim time is uncomfortably high ( > 150 msec) or that you are losing quite a bit of data (that is, your Packet Loss is over a small fraction of 1%).  Those conditions will contribute to some lag but are most troublesome when you are teleporting, traveling across region borders, or flying.  At those times, it's easy for the servers to lose track of where you are.  If they don;t know, then they can't tell your viewer how to update properly, so you're lost.  If you are way out of sync, you'll get disconnected.

There's not a lot that you can do about Ping Sim.  It's mostly a function of how far you are from LL's servers, so a long transit time is common for people in Europe and can be truly bad for those in Australia and distant parts of Asia.  And for people using a satellite connection.  Sometimes you can talk with your ISP and get their help in routing your data past a troublesome, slow Internet node, but that's usually hopeless.  You can do things about your packet loss, though.  The usual suspect is your own router or modem.   Reboot them to clear them and start fresh. Check cables and connectors too, and ask your ISP to check their connections.  Several years ago, I had very bad packet loss that was traced to corrosion in a connection at the street in front of my home.

Thank you, Rolig for your answer. I'll get into all of this. I already tried rebooting my router, but the problem stays. Cables and connectors are all fine, so last thing to try is ask my ISP. If that doesn't help, just like in RL I cannot fly in SL 😄 Oh and I live in Europe indeed (the Netherlands).  I am not going to move to the USA. Maybe a Linden can come and live in the Netherlands  hahahaaa 🙂 

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Zia Branner said:

 I live in Europe indeed (the Netherlands).  I am not going to move to the USA. Maybe a Linden can come and live in the Netherlands  hahahaaa 🙂 

totally no need for that, SL works fine for thousends of dutchies ... next to the connection stats, post your settings  ( help menu viewer, copy paste it here) those lists tell sometimes, not always, a lot already.

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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On 7/18/2019 at 5:08 AM, Zia Branner said:

Thank you, Rolig for your answer. I'll get into all of this. I already tried rebooting my router, but the problem stays. Cables and connectors are all fine, so last thing to try is ask my ISP. If that doesn't help, just like in RL I cannot fly in SL 😄 Oh and I live in Europe indeed (the Netherlands).  I am not going to move to the USA. Maybe a Linden can come and live in the Netherlands  hahahaaa 🙂 

The SL system is being moved to the cloud. the hope is this will allow copies of SL in Europe and other places outside the USA. So, might sort of get a Linden living near you.

You can troubleshoot your connection using this information: Troubleshoot Your #SL Connection.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/18/2019 at 3:05 PM, Alwin Alcott said:

totally no need for that, SL works fine for thousends of dutchies ... next to the connection stats, post your settings  ( help menu viewer, copy paste it here) those lists tell sometimes, not always, a lot already.

Hi Alwin,

 

Thank you for your answer. Here are my settings:

 

Second Life Release 6.3.0.529185 (64bit)
Release Notes

You are at 101.2, 142.4, 2,800.7 in SH 7 located at sim10682.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.53.44:13011)
SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/SH 7/101/142/2801
(global coordinates 293,989.0, 270,222.0, 2,800.7)
Second Life Server 19.06.14.528215
Release Notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7300HQ CPU @ 2.50GHz (2496 MHz)
Memory: 8072 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 17134.885)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 1050/PCIe/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 25.21.14.2202
OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 422.02

Window size: 1920x1001
Font Size Adjustment: 96pt
UI Scaling: 1
Draw distance: 128m
Bandwidth: 3000kbit/s
LOD factor: 9.075
Render quality: 4
Advanced Lighting Model: Enabled
Texture memory: 512MB
VFS (cache) creation time: July 19 2019 22:19:34

J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.10.4
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Ex 4.44.64
Dullahan: 1.1.1320 / CEF: 3.3626.1895.g7001d56 / Chromium: 72.0.3626.121
LibVLC Version: 2.2.8
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
Packets Lost: 1,665/285,164 (0.6%)
July 21 2019 06:40:32

Edited by Zia Branner

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Posted (edited)
On 7/19/2019 at 8:38 PM, Nalates Urriah said:

The SL system is being moved to the cloud. the hope is this will allow copies of SL in Europe and other places outside the USA. So, might sort of get a Linden living near you.

You can troubleshoot your connection using this information: Troubleshoot Your #SL Connection.

Thank you, Nalates! And Yay, a Linden is kinda going to live near me 😛

Edited by Zia Branner
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7 hours ago, Zia Branner said:

Bandwidth: 3000kbit/s

Have you tried lowering your bandwidth? Like, significantly?  

Also, are you using any kind of flying helpers?

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Posted (edited)

Pay attention to the issues Nalates Urriah brought up. She is spot on in her advice. 

Lower your Bandwidth to 1500. 

Lower your LOD factor to 2. 

There are two other things i wanted to mention based on what I see in your settings. 

You can increase Texture memory from the 512MB default to match the amount of memory your graphics card comes with.

You can increase your computers system memory from the 8GB you currently have to 16GB. In an empty region 8GB is fine but once you go anywhere that is busy with many avatars the memory used quickly zooms way past 8GB. Memory is cheap these days and this upgrade to 16GB will make your SL experience smoother and more responsive across the board. 

The last thing is please do a speed test and post your upload speed and download speed and ping time. Ping time has already been brought up and posting that is important and will give much insight. 

Edited by Rav104
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"Packet loss", as reported by viewers, is not really network packet loss. It includes packets not processed because the viewer was too busy to process them. If you have "ping" on your system, ping "secondlife.com" for  a while, or run some speed test program. If that's not losing packets, the network path to the SL data center in Phoenix AZ is fine.

Expect to see some packet loss if the viewer frame rate is very low. When the frame rate starts to drop, it's usually because the main thread is using all the CPU time one CPU can provide, or because your machine is swapping to disk due to lack of free memory. That's when the main thread starts losing packets. The network bandwidth limitation is more to keep from choking the viewer's main thread more than to prevent choking the network.

LOD factor of 9 is insane. LOD factor of 1.5 to 2 is normal. If you set it to 9 and you're flying, your viewer is forced to render the high-resolution model of everything on the ground within draw distance, which takes time.

Oh, and make sure your machine isn't swapping. Is there a web browser in the background with lots of tabs open, using up memory? Try running Firestorm and nothing else, or as little else as Windows 10 will let you run.

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Animats makes some good points.

The viewer PING and Packet Loss are different from the Windows system PING and Packet Loss, as Animats points out. The Troubleshooting link I provided explains how to tell if the SL servers are causing lost packets or it is from network problems.

You can open the Resource Monitor and in the Memory section see the actual Hard Faults page swapping in real time.

Since you are using the Linden made SL Viewer, the video memory maxes at 512...

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Do you have a spacenavigator connected?  If so, unplug it & see if this fixes the problem.

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1 hour ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

Do you have a spacenavigator connected?  If so, unplug it & see if this fixes the problem.

Thank you for thinking with me, Whirly. No I don't have a spacenavigator connected.

 

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13 hours ago, animats said:

"Packet loss", as reported by viewers, is not really network packet loss. It includes packets not processed because the viewer was too busy to process them. If you have "ping" on your system, ping "secondlife.com" for  a while, or run some speed test program. If that's not losing packets, the network path to the SL data center in Phoenix AZ is fine.

Expect to see some packet loss if the viewer frame rate is very low. When the frame rate starts to drop, it's usually because the main thread is using all the CPU time one CPU can provide, or because your machine is swapping to disk due to lack of free memory. That's when the main thread starts losing packets. The network bandwidth limitation is more to keep from choking the viewer's main thread more than to prevent choking the network.

LOD factor of 9 is insane. LOD factor of 1.5 to 2 is normal. If you set it to 9 and you're flying, your viewer is forced to render the high-resolution model of everything on the ground within draw distance, which takes time.

Oh, and make sure your machine isn't swapping. Is there a web browser in the background with lots of tabs open, using up memory? Try running Firestorm and nothing else, or as little else as Windows 10 will let you run.

Thank you, Animats for your help. I lowered LOD factor to 2, I lowered bandwith to 1500 (as more people recommend). I am also going to try what happens if I don't have my web browser open when having SL on. I haven't tried Firestorm yet, cause SL viewer always was fine for me (SL member since 2008). Only the flying thing is what is going on for couple of months now.

I also did a ping test with my Windows to the IP adress of 2 different sims I was. (Found those in Help, About etc).  Result: an average of 165 ms.

I tried flying on those 2 different sims and yes, also got stuck again, which means I can't use camera controls and top screen menu. That was after I lowered LOD and bandwith.  A ping made it all 'unfreeze' again. Using camera controls and top menu is possible again then. Well, the pink test is a way of unfreezing, so might have that ready at all times. Which asks of me to note the IP adress first of course. Better than a relog all the time. 

On my laptop, in Task management, the performance doesn't show any problem. Processor, memory, Wifi, the drive, the Intel graphics card, the NVDIA Geforce show no problems.

My husband, who also knows a lot about the stuff you are all talking about, helped me with it all. He doesn't know much about SL though. But he does understand the 'technical' language. I am a total 'virgin' on this territory. Thank you so much to all who help me with their answer!! Grateful for that 😄 

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4 hours ago, Zia Branner said:

A ping made it all 'unfreeze' again.

That's very strange. That does indicate a possible network problem. Can you run a once a second ping to "secondlife.com" while also running the LL viewer?

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You have PING'd the SL servers (I assume you mean the ones listed in Help->About...). Now have hubby run a TRACERT to the SL servers.

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11 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

You have PING'd the SL servers (I assume you mean the ones listed in Help->About...). Now have hubby run a TRACERT to the SL servers.

Hello Nalates,

Below you find the tracing route output. It speaks for itself, but no conclusions for us. Maybe you can help. 

Thx so far!

 

image.thumb.png.749d2a5eb684900efe0414dfb76e9a37.png

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18 hours ago, animats said:

That's very strange. That does indicate a possible network problem. Can you run a once a second ping to "secondlife.com" while also running the LL viewer?

I will test this. Currently debugging with trace route. When that is completed, I will come back to you. Thx so far!

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